@h4iry-0range Hate the game, not the players.
Mouse v Controller
@ironuzuka said in Mouse v Controller:
@h4iry-0range Hate the game, not the players.
I love the game and its players we are talking about mouse vs xbox controller the turn rate is just one of the advantages and this is what we are debating
putting a link up here for a mouse and keyboard on the xbox does not really contribute in my opinion
@octopus-lime They actually have been saying for months they are "Looking at the data" but we never get any coherent answer. Its been a massive issue for alot of people and they are not interested in trying to address the problems people are bringing up.
I also never said they should get rid of crossplay, its a great initiative. It just shouldn't be forced on people who do not wish to partake in it. I don't think the majority of people would want to do anything forced when they have a disadvantage, people like to believe they have a fair chance.
@elchupacabraj86 said in Mouse v Controller:
@knifelife we do know, its simple common sense, even if on average a pc player is hugely ahead in pvp encounters the chances you are going to encounter one are low, if what people are saying is true you will come across 14 PC players in every 99 other players you encounter, some of these 14 PC players will be using a controller and not all of them will be very good at PvP, or even willingly participate in or seek out PvP.
This rubbish that having a keyboard and mouse automatically bestow godlike PvP abilities really needs to stop as well, think about those numbers above, there is no way PC keyboard and mouse players are even close to as big of a problem as all the crying-beards would have us believe, sometimes you just get beaten by a better player or more organised crew, again, this would influence those above numbers.
Your response is just theories and guesswork, only Rare have the internal data and can comment a response which would be factually correct. Untill then all anyone can do is give educated guesses, which at the end of the day is still a guess.
@h4iry-0range
I've seen a few people suggesting two options, increasing controller turn rate/sensitivity, and reducing mouse turn rate/sensitivity. These options bring their own problems with them.Increased controller sensitivity reduces accuracy, especially in mid to long range combat. Mouse sensitivity can be adjusted outside of the SoT settings, making a 'limit' pointless.
Many PC owners will tell you that controller vs kb/m will never be balanced, and some will lie.
@pomalotacusmk3 said in Mouse v Controller:
@h4iry-0range
I've seen a few people suggesting two options, increasing controller turn rate/sensitivity, and reducing mouse turn rate/sensitivity. These options bring their own problems with them.Increased controller sensitivity reduces accuracy, especially in mid to long range combat. Mouse sensitivity can be adjusted outside of the SoT settings, making a 'limit' pointless.
Many PC owners will tell you that controller vs kb/m will never be balanced, and some will lie.
great post!
but this means we are back to square one ;)
any awesome sugestions on how to bring a little more balance to this problem ?
@brimst0ne said in Mouse v Controller:
Here's a good question. Why is it that all the PC players in this post are against an opt-in/out of crossplay servers. Hmmm.
This should be interesting😉
i asked the same question somewhere and got exactly the anwser i thought i would get
@brimst0ne "blah, blah, split the player base" "blah, blah, get gud" "I play on PC but it's okay cause I use a controller!"
They refuse to acknowledge the advantage and just assume they're super good gamers.
I personally love the cross-play. I've made a ton of friends because of it, but there's no denying balance needs to be addressed.
@h4iry-0range there's really only 3 options that will work, from what I can see...
Option 1) Kb/m support for xbox. I don't like this option. I would have bought a PC if I wanted kb/m. If Rare push for this option, it kinda says 'the crossplay complaints were valid, so you'll need to buy more stuff if you want the level playing field we promised. On top of that, Microsoft are suggesting that separate servers be used to split kb/m and controller, when xbox eventually gets kb/m support. Basically, split the playerbase, which is what all the PC players are arguing against in these threads. lol.Option 2) Optional crossplay. My top option. There's thousands and thousands of PC players. You only need 24 to fill a server. No one will be sailing on empty seas. PC players get to play with fellow PC owners, xbox sails with xbox, and anyone that wants 'all in one' can play that way too, everyones happy. Matchmaking and search times wont change, remember, you are joining a server thats already up and running, already populated. You arent starting a new game and waiting for more to join. All SoT is looking for is an instance with at least 1 spot for your crew. Also, note that in option 1 above, Microsoft suggests separating kb/m from controller. Splitting the playerbase. If splitting is ok, it should have been done 4 months ago, with optional crossplay, not some distand undisclosed date based on kb/m support, especially if MS is acknowledging that it's not balanced NOW.
Option 3) Separating based on input device. Select kb/m or controller, and matchmake based on this. This sounds ideal, but also has problems. Ever heard of XiM? Basically kb/m for xbox, just not as good. If crossplay becomes the norm, it wont take long before someone develops a workaround to trick the computer into thinking you're using a controller. If the PC argument of PC playerbase is too small, splitting will kill the game is accurate, kb/m users will have EVEN LESS players when all the xbox and PC gamepad users are taken away. Adittionally, what if your batteries go flat? or you like to pvp on kb/m and sail on controller ? I've read plenty of posts about players that 'dual wield' in SoT. There would also be all the other PC extras that wouldnt be resolved by kb/m and controller servers, so although this is a good option, its still not my first preference .
Just some of my thoughts, sorry about the wall of text ;)I’ll say that PC has advantage over Xbox but not because of what control input you use. I play on PC due to never being invited to the Xbox alpha (even though I applied for both, so force of habit) and mainly due to text chat. Then there’s the vast performance difference of my 2-year-old PC compared to my almost 5-year old Xbone.
Not to mention I’ve wiped entire gallion crews by myself in ship-to-ship combat and I play with a controller. It’s all about outmaneuvering and mooching off the enemy supplies.@pomalotacusmk3
Great wall of text though! +1 for you sir!
i would prefer option 2 this would eliminate 90% of the player based complaints@h4iry-0range lots of things would stop. Moderator's would not have to ban people for freedom of speech regarding crossplay. Console players would return to the game in numbers that would likely compete with upcoming game releases. Updates would be easier, as apparantly, trying to update a game for crossplay is akin to launching astronauts into orbit. With more set backs and rescheduling than a shuttle launch. Rare needs to hire some programmers from any of the other crossplay games out there. The games like fortnight that have optional crossplay and weekly updates without breaking the game. Let's get some people on staff that aren't dealing with such a learning curve.
@captgraykid said in Mouse v Controller:
@h4iry-0range lots of things would stop. Moderator's would not have to ban people for freedom of speech regarding crossplay. Console players would return to the game in numbers that would likely compete with upcoming game releases. Updates would be easier, as apparantly, trying to update a game for crossplay is akin to launching astronauts into orbit. With more set backs and rescheduling than a shuttle launch. Rare needs to hire some programmers from any of the other crossplay games out there. The games like fortnight that have optional crossplay and weekly updates without breaking the game. Let's get some people on staff that aren't dealing with such a learning curve.
to be truthfull i think the people at Rare are very skilled at what they do the game and concept is great.
but i do agree with you that if crossplay would be an option allot of griefs on the forum would stop allot complaints would stop as well ... there would be allot more players coming back to the game especially the xbox players that don't like the unfair, and might even recomend it to friends and that makes the community grow even more.@xxmrvincexx said in Mouse v Controller:
@el-dunco Kid's game? Maybe Horizon is, but Forza Motorsport isn't when you play it on simulation. Even Forza4 was sometimes also on tv on the Racing channel. Or do you think F1 in real is a kids sport also? Lol
I think the last racing game I played was Cruis'n USA back in the 90s
@clawhide-za said in Mouse v Controller:
@h4iry-0range
They can give us an option to play with pc or without pc. Like FortniteYou would get the option so you can pick not to play with PC players...
is it really an option then?here ill give you an option
you get 10$ or you get 1000$
which option do you pick?also PC players don't want crossplay optional or removed because we always have wanted to grow the gaming community. the bigger the gaming community the better we are as gamers. we need to learn to co-exist and not fight each other and create Team A vs TeamB.
Xbox players mentality of option (not really) to turn off crossplay is what created the console peasant vs pc-master-race memes and views.
We PC players want to merge our gaming communities. We want us to be 1 powerful group of people that game together. We have suggested many things we are ready to make compromises. Limit our turn rate? sure... for us to use controllers? why not? I have 3 controllers, 2 HOTAS, 1 Fight Stick, 1 Wheel/Pedals/ and 1 Dance Pad (don't ask...) The great thing about PCs is that we can adapt. And if it means forcing us to use controllers to play SoT... so be it, i don't mind, we have hundreds of models to pick from, from the steam controller to the Xbox1 / elite etc...Those who want to have the option to crossplay (so they can immediately turn it off), you bring SHAME to the gaming community... you should be ashamed of yourselves as gamers for discouraging the UNITY of all gamers types (cough... even mobile gamers... cough cough...)
Maybe if it wasn't about your attitude of blaming everything on PC and spreading misinformation and lies about what we can and can't do. We wouldn't have PC-Master-Race comments.
@squaz05 as great as your post is, you have failed terribly in convincing me to reinstall. Hopefully Rare has a fix in the works that will invite xbox players back to SoT.
@captgraykid said in Mouse v Controller:
@squaz05 as great as your post is, you have failed terribly in convincing me to reinstall. Hopefully Rare has a fix in the works that will invite xbox players back to SoT.
I wasn't planning to make you re-install... I don't have it installed myself, though I like to keep up with the news in the off chance something changes and the game gets better. Right now No Man's Sky is taking a good chunk of my game time.
@nebenkuh said in Mouse v Controller:
Easy, cap spin speed.
Yeaaa no.
Have you ever played a PC game? Capped spin speed would feel extremely unnatural.Level playing field is coming in the form of mkb support for xbox. Finally, there will be no more excuses and whining about PC players.
This will make a lot of Xbox players move to another game.
@dragotech123 said in Mouse v Controller:
Well, if people played with my horrible mouse and low specs PC they wouldn't say I have an advantage over Xbox players.
don't worry, console players are used to everyone have the same hardware and controls, We PC players got used to the fact that not everyone is on the same hardware. I mean by looking at your posts I can tell you that I have an advantage over you just because of my mouse. (razer naga) I have the numbers 1-12 on my mouse thumb. and an extra vertical line of blank keys to the left of Tab/CapsLock/Shift/Ctrl.
we understand that you need to invest a bit of money to be on the same playing field yet when we suggest that Xbox will have a M/K their argument is we should not have to buy something to be on the same playing field... my argument is yes. better equipment should give you an advantage in performance. You don't see tennis players buying their rackets from Walmart, or Basketball players buying their shoes from Payless shoes... anything that is competitive will try to get that edge by having better performing hardware. So if Xbox players will have access to a mouse and keyboard made by M$ then that has just become the new performance benchmark.
Xbox players, when the M/K for Xbox gets released, will you demand to have Controller input optional servers? or are we going to have the same arguments about how the XboxM/K people have better aim and turn speed in your xbox only servers?
@knifelife yes, my response was a hypothetical but highly (highly!) probable, even if the PC player percentage is higher than the 14% thats spruiked around here given that we know abilities aren't entirely dependant on input device, players have freedom of choice and aren't always PvP oriented regardless of chosen device and some people running PCs opt to use controllers, which dilutes that percentage (whatever it is).
I wasn't saying that keyboard and mouse can't provide an advantage, I'm saying that they don't always provide an advantage, some controller players will beat pc users and vice versa and that the reports here are massively overstated and almost always ignore the miriad variables that influence outcomes in combat in this game.
@squaz05 no, as a xbox player. I can say with confidence that most of us have already left the game or on our way out. I simple look at the rare achievements gained by doing things like hitting level 25. As the game is right now more PC gamers stick around for legend than consoles per capita. If course Rare is not releasing numbers on this, however anyone with college algebra can easily figure it out. The attitude taken by Rare has run off untold numbers of xbox players. Sadly enough, most of these players go on to games that don't require different hardware to remain competitive. With some titles up for release on xbox have been anticipated highly for years now. I worry that even if Xim is made compatible for SoT, or keyboard / mouse support. It will be to little to late for fans of this game. It's way too easy to trade in the game for a good one that doesn't require keyboard/mouse. Let's go ahead and mention how uncomfortable it is to hover over a keyboard for hours at a time. There is a reason controller's are the only form of input device for decades now on console. It takes a certain kind of gamer to hunch over a mouse and keyboard all day. Most young gamers will laugh at you if you put a keyboard in their lap and put a mouse next to them on the couch. They are not bringing desk into the living room to crowd up the place. As a parent I can promise that my kids will not be putting any desk furniture in front of my big screens. SoT has successfully alienated the console players by shutting down the mega thread, weeks ago, and never commenting on it since then. The player's are segregating themselves in the lfg threads, asking for PC players only for crews.
To recap, Rare is losing players everyday. The population is becoming more segregated everyday. Console players don't want a mouse and keyboard. All of these issues could be fixed with the addition of optional crossplay. Players are leaving faster than Rare can react to the problem.
I , for one, refuse to subject myself to the frustration offered by the unfair playing environment. I am on the forums just waiting for a fix. Still haven't seen a single arguement convincing enough for me to install SoT again. I keep my fingers crossed though, even after seeing all the complaints about the latest update and new ship. I continue to check in, looking for a fix for crossplay. So far, the best solution is that at some unknown later date I can choose to buy a keyboard and mouse, or buy a different game instead that doesn't require keyboard and mouse.@captgraykid
Rare is losing both PC and Xbox players, the reasons are not important.what is important is the fact that Rare has not addressed, hell they haven't even acknowledged MANY of these reasons.
the only thing I've seen is "We heard you" other than that... "crickets"...
We don't know PC vs Console player ratios
We don't know number of active players
We don't know if bug fixes are being looked at.
We don't know if mechanics are being reviewed.I mean let's talk seriously, how hard is it to add a joystick sensitivity slider? Whether it fixes the problem or not, having a sensitivity slider is never a bad thing for gamers to pick their preferred turning speed no? It's not like it's a balance issue if PC have it unlocked to infinity.
I'm a PC player and I left due to lack of content. I have a few friends that play Xbox and PC that left because of content and bugs. Even if they fix the bugs and add content, I dont think I will come back, because exactly like you said. It's too little too late. I've moved on (still lurk the forums... mostly for entertainment and trolling) but I also have hopes that they will do something drastic that might change my mind.
@squaz05 Having a sensitivity slider is not a fix.Options are nice, but controller vs mouse is a no brainer. If a slider was increased, accuracy suffers alot on a controller, whereas accuracy on a mouse is mostly maintained. Also, all the forced crossplay supporters will use this as a crutch. 'You got a new slider, everything is equal now, so stop complaining and get good.'
Also, i agree with @CAPTGraykid, xbox owners arent going to go buy xim or kb/m, they will just go play a game that isnt forced crossplay, and pc will be on their own servers. lol.
Genuine question for you...
MS are suggesting that, when kb/m is eventually supported on xbox, games should have separate servers to avoid the disparity. If MS is acknowledging that it is uneven, dont you think they should be applying those guidelines in a game where kb/m is usable? Or is kb/m vs controller a non existant problem till Xbox supports kb/m?
Please remember when answering that SoT is a sandbox game. Saying it isnt competitive isn't true , as people can play however they want.@squaz05 In response to your question, i personally would want controller only servers lol, its something Microsoft will be giving the option for.
The way i see it if i wanted to use a mouse and keyboard i would have bought a PC, I personally can't stand K&M lol. And if Microsoft takes the god awful stance Rare has by forcing things like that on people ill juat go buy a PS4. And im pretty sure alot of people would.
MS are treading very dangerously imo when it comes to this whole thing, i just pray they dont do a Rare and completely screw it up.
Just my opnions anyway :)
@corleththefey please not another post about MKB and controller..
getting so sick of it...There are loads of xbox players that killed me in pvp, there is nothing wrong with it! if you don't want it, you should have not bought the game. you knew it beforehand.
Otherwise wait till the update for MBK support for XBOX.
@knukkle my dude don't get triggered. Most of the xbox players have left the game already. Don't worry, you and your PC buddies will have the seas all to yourself's soon enough. Just check out the rare achievements, most xbox players quit before hitting level 25 with any faction.
@knukkle While i agree these threads are tiring, Rare can stop them at anytime by addressing the issues.
But in response to you saying wait untill Microsoft brings out K&M for console i personally dont agree with that argument, i feel that's just like me saying PC players should be forced to use a controller so its balanced. Its just not a solution imo.
@knifelife said in Mouse v Controller:
@squaz05 In response to your question, i personally would want controller only servers lol, its something Microsoft will be giving the option for.
The way i see it if i wanted to use a mouse and keyboard i would have bought a PC,
so you want
PC only server
Crossplay servers
Xbox Open servers
Xbox controller only servers(Should we start adding Xbox 1 X servers only? or PC i7 GTX 1000 series and higher and PC i5 GTX900 series an lower servers? what about PC with controllers only servers? cuz you know... we gotta keep it fair...)
damn.... man... way to split the community
@squaz05 said in Mouse v Controller:
@knifelife said in Mouse v Controller:
@squaz05 In response to your question, i personally would want controller only servers lol, its something Microsoft will be giving the option for.
The way i see it if i wanted to use a mouse and keyboard i would have bought a PC,
so you want
PC only server
Crossplay servers
Xbox Open servers
Xbox controller only servers(Should we start adding Xbox 1 X servers only? or PC i7 GTX 1000 series and higher and PC i5 GTX900 series an lower servers? what about PC with controllers only servers? cuz you know... we gotta keep it fair...)
damn.... man... way to split the community
i could be done like this
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pc players on the crossplatform server Cuz a pc player is not whining and they will play against everyone.
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XBOX server for the people on xbox who want more balanced gameplay
keeping in mind that even is there is xbox kb/m support they can still play in the xbox server cuz there is no way to seperate this , and wait for it there will not be allot of xbox players using kb/m usually an gamer with a console is sitting on his couch in the livingroom most horrible position for kb/m
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