All this complaining about Xbox vs PC players...

@wodyo
Firstly, not quite. DPI is important but having a high DPI doesn't make a mouse better than a mouse with a low DPI.

There are very many more variables but I'm sure you know that and don't need me to tell you them all and extend this conversation past the original point. Despite you trying to.

Counter Strike was probably more competitive than most modern day shooters, in part because the competitive user base was proportionately larger and because it functioned differently and was often LAN based with fewer lag errors.
It's age has nothing to do with this conversation but it was the main game I played competitively. I don't consider my exploits on COD say as me competing, because I played on Xbox, and imo, if I want to compete (not be competitive, that's different), I go to a KB+M.

Secondly, you clearly just ignored what I said about bunny hoppers but I'll repost the reasoning because I don't get the feeling you like to re-read or read back.

The hand is far more accurate than thumbsticks.
That's why bunny hopping on a PC is more accurate than bunny hopping on a controller.
On my console, I mostly bunny hop to evade. On a PC i'd bunny hop to evade and strike more easily.

Can I assume you're against private crews then? Or perhaps timed events?
Private crews made the gaming experience worse for non-private crew players and that remains the case with fewer good random crews and more trolls.
Timed events split the base because casual players who missed out, literally missed out!

I personally understood the splitting of the base in private crews, despite not liking it. Timed events I think are stupid, and so do Rare which is why they've left the titles in for gunpowder skeletons.

But back to crossplay, it's not splitting the playerbase. It's letting the playerbase play apart IF they so choose. Rare could simply leave crossplay on as default and let users choose to opt-out. Then it's not Rare splitting anything, it's a users choice.

@aarghmaargho

On minecraft, if you play solo, can you have all your toils (let's say 2 hours) taken away through PVP?
If so, I take your point.
If not....you probably should have addressed the competitive element. And yes, Fortnite is not SOT, but you get redemption on SOT and very quickly, not so on SOT.

Glad you agree there's an advantage. We clearly differ on the solutions.
I would rather make it fairer for all gamers, you'd prefer those people to be frustrated.

That's picked up in your next few reasons/lines.

Therefore the issue IS with Xbox and PC, because, PC natively supports KB+M and controller, and the Xbox only supports a controller.
When MS support it natively, you'll be right, but for now, it IS the problem between the two platforms.

Btw, that's before we consider cheating, which Rare will NEVER get a handle on because quite frankly, they don't have the resources to deal with it.

As for your last question, which sadly feels like a last resort to defend your original position of,

@aarghmaargho said in All this complaining about Xbox vs PC players...:

'It's very simple why the topic keeps coming up.
People would rather have an excuse to why they failed than have some selfreflection and see their own mistakes.'

well, there's the difference between input lag, because PC's has a multitude of settings.
And Xbox live, which when having problems impacts Xbox and not PC players.
I also believe all Xbox's have identical ethernet ports, though I could be wrong on that and am happy to be corrected.

@vexed-anemone said in All this complaining about Xbox vs PC players...:

@aarghmaargho

On minecraft, if you play solo, can you have all your toils (let's say 2 hours) taken away through PVP?
If so, I take your point.

Nope there isn't because it's solo, but you included achievements and titles making a game competitive.

If not....you probably should have addressed the competitive element. And yes, Fortnite is not SOT, but you get redemption on SOT and very quickly, not so on SOT.

Glad you agree there's an advantage. We clearly differ on the solutions.
I would rather make it fairer for all gamers, you'd prefer those people to be frustrated.

Wait you want to make it fair for all games, by dividing xbox and pc. While pc players that use controllers still have the issue. And I prefer people to be frustrated because I come up with a solution to base it on input device, so people can use the input device they want and balance is for both sides. What?!?

That's picked up in your next few reasons/lines.

Therefore the issue IS with Xbox and PC, because, PC natively supports KB+M and controller, and the Xbox only supports a controller.
When MS support it natively, you'll be right, but for now, it IS the problem between the two platforms.

Btw, that's before we consider cheating, which Rare will NEVER get a handle on because quite frankly, they don't have the resources to deal with it.

Cheating happens on both platforms

As for your last question, which sadly feels like a last resort to defend your original position of,

My last question,What are the other issues on xbox vs PC that don't exist between different xbox versions, is to have an understanding of why xbox vs pc is not the same as gamepad vs KB+M. Something nobody has yet been able to answer. Most likely because other than the gamepad and KB+M difference, there isn't anything that doesn't exist between xbox versions.

There has been nobody that was able to answer that question since the day the crossplay discussion started, makes you wonder doesn't it.

@aarghmaargho said in All this complaining about Xbox vs PC players...:

'It's very simple why the topic keeps coming up.
People would rather have an excuse to why they failed than have some selfreflection and see their own mistakes.'

well, there's the difference between input lag, because PC's has a multitude of settings.

Input lag differes between Xbox versions, different TV's as well. As does it differ between different PCs and monitors

And Xbox live, which when having problems impacts Xbox and not PC players.

This situation doesn't affect playtime whatsoever, Xbox live downtimes are minimal. That's the same like saying people should be compensated because their internetprovider had some downtime.

I also believe all Xbox's have identical ethernet ports, though I could be wrong on that and am happy to be corrected.

All ethernet ports are identical, that's why it's called an ethernet port. A PC has the same port as an xbox or playstation.

TLDR:

I'm still all for balancing the game to have an equal playerfield, which is balancing around the input devices. The problem is that a gamepad is not as accurate as a mouse and keyboard due to the dubble thumbstick. That's what needs balancing if you want to solve the issue, else you just fix the problem for xbox players only and pc players that want to use a controller still have the issue.

@aarghmaargho said in All this complaining about Xbox vs PC players...:

@vexed-anemone said in All this complaining about Xbox vs PC players...:

@aarghmaargho
Nope there isn't because it's solo, but you included achievements and titles making a game competitive.

So you threw out my whole POV because the supplementary reasoning didn't cut it for you, even if the main one did?

I personally see strawman arguments as divisive as mis and dis information.

Why embolden those pushing a false narrative?!

You probably should have addressed the competitive element because SOT is competitive on many levels, despite not having obvious 'leaderboards'. (though I gave you those too, with achievement, something Sony now includes because they realise it's a different sort of competition)

Wait you want to make it fair for all games, by dividing xbox and pc. While pc players that use controllers still have the issue. And I prefer people to be frustrated because I come up with a solution to base it on input device, so people can use the input device they want and balance is for both sides. What?!?

Gamers, not games.

PC players CHOOSE to use controllers, their choice.
And it costs them considerably less to make that choice than on an Xbox. eg - XIM or Elite is much more expensive than a KB+M or USB controller.

Plus, no subscription charge for PC.

Xbox users don't have the choice of starting on an equal footing, unlike PC players.

I'd agree that they should separate on user inputs, which is something some developers are able to do already.

I'd be happy with that solution as it's an acceptable middle ground. Much like my support of private crews, even if they've split the playerbase.

Cheating happens on both platforms

Cheating happens much more on the PC than Xbox.

Why would MS be happy exposing their monthly subscribing Xbox players to that when they don't have to?
Why would the community also be okay with that?

I'm not looking forward to the day Rare start another project, cheating invariably increases in frequency when a game loses gamers.

My last question,What are the other issues on xbox vs PC that don't exist between different xbox versions, is to have an understanding of why xbox vs pc is not the same as gamepad vs KB+M. Something nobody has yet been able to answer. Most likely because other than the gamepad and KB+M difference, there isn't anything that doesn't exist between xbox versions.

There has been nobody that was able to answer that question since the day the crossplay discussion started, makes you wonder doesn't it.

I gave you an answer. Some of those reasoning's are below.

Input lag differes between Xbox versions, different TV's as well. As does it differ between different PCs and monitors

But on a PC you can more easily control that lag right? Which is why I included the word 'settings'.

I don't quite understand why your question has any bearing on the whole discussion? Could you elaborate.

This is about the advantage PC players have over Xbox players, because of controls.

Everything else, like cheating, subscription, or quicker return from the Ferry, supplements the perspective of difference between PC and Xbox.

This situation doesn't affect playtime whatsoever, Xbox live downtimes are minimal. That's the same like saying people should be compensated because their internetprovider had some downtime.

They should be compensated and they are! I have received it a few times.

It also does impact playtimes, it might be minimal but you can't just oppose something because it gives you the reasoning you wanted but you didn't like.

All ethernet ports are identical, that's why it's called an ethernet port. A PC has the same port as an xbox or playstation.

The port shape might be but all NIC's are definitely not the same.

@vexed-anemone
My question: What are the other issues on xbox vs PC that don't exist between different xbox versions?

My question has bearing because the only argument people come with are that PC players rotate faster and are more precise with a mouse and keyboard.

Then when I say that the problem thus lies with gamepad vs KB+M, they say no and can't bring any other arguments.

You indeed give answer, which are debunked because they differ between xbox and also between different pc's.

• Input lag exists on both platforms, no matter if it's easier to controll, it's still there.

• NIC is different between Xbox versions and on different PC's

Also having to pay in order to play is stupid in general, that's the number 1 reason I neve bothered to get a console. But just because Xbox players have to, doesn't make them any better than PC players.

And exactly why is a person that decides to use a controller on PC because he is comfortable with that any less then an Xbox controller user?

When you fix the issue, and thus acknowledge it, for only a part of the playerbase. You're a hypocrite, you either fix the issue or you don't fix it and explain why.

@personalc0ffee said

You can make line breaks like that between posts. :O Why did I not know about this?

It takes a special SoT currency.

---

Not gold

---

or doubloons

---

lol ;o)

@aarghmaargho

Nothing has been debunked.

Your question: What are the other issues on xbox vs PC that don't exist between different xbox versions?

Answer -
If PC gets options to control their input lag, they have a clear advantage over Xbox guys who don't.
I used the word SETTINGS in my first post. I did that intentionally and reminded you of that in the last post.

The NIC might be physically different (not that you've provided any evidence of this) but the ability to alter the settings are the same.

Nobody suggested it's better or worse to be an Xbox player but yourself. However, Xbox guys WILL experience downtime because of Xbox Live problems, PC players won't. Plus they don't pay for the privilege of downtime!

You wanted examples of why the PC specifically differs from the Xbox platform.
You have them but for some reason you have debunked them without giving reasoning.
I think perhaps it's because they prove you wrong.

But let's look at the next assertion you've made -
My question has bearing because the only argument people come with are that PC players rotate faster and are more precise with a mouse and keyboard.

PC players have better shortcuts to items. They have push to talk. They're quicker off the Ferry of the Damned. And, they have a variety of complementary software available to them which don't necessarily mean they are cheats. eg - Cannon angling grids.

The reason these threads descend into confusion is because people make opposition their argument, rather than trying to contribute to a discussion and conclusion.

This is pretty nicely highlighted when you suggested they could separate on controller type.
I agree with that as a middle ground because that's the main concern but it would seem too technical to adopt that at this stage of the game whereas optional cross play wouldn't be as challenging.

And remember, PC players natively have the CHOICE to use a controller or a keyboard! Xbox players don't! Why is choice okay for one platform but not for the other?
I'd guess because you use it and you're not disadvantaged!

Yet, not once have you reneged on your original post (which has changed throughout the thread, unlike your opposition) or given credence to the suggestion that optional crossplay is a fair solution to the disadvantage console players face.

@vexed-anemone
Just because you used the words settings, doesn't take away the fact that input lag exist on both platforms and are different between different xbox versions and pc.

You actually suggested that Xbox players are better than console players by opting that it's okay to solve the issue for Xbox users but not for PC users, I'm still the one looking for fixing it for all players.

Your examples, again, are different between Xbox versions as well. So they don't answer my question and aren't a reason to disable crossplay. Also they don't prove me wrong, all they show is that there aren't any other differences between Xbox and PC than the input device that don't exist between the platforms itself.

"PC players have better shortcuts to items. They have push to talk. They're quicker off the Ferry of the Damned. And, they have a variety of complementary software available to them which don't necessarily mean they are cheats. eg - Cannon angling grids."

KB+M players have better shortcuts to items.
Really... Push to talk is your argument now? That's just grasping.
Xbox one X is quicker of the Ferry compared to Xbox One as well.
Using 3rd party software is cheating, no matter what it does.

"The reason these threads descend into confusion is because people make opposition their argument, rather than trying to contribute to a discussion and conclusion."
Theads about crossplay don't descend in confusion, they get locked because people are plain telling lies, start screaming insults and keep repeating the same lines.

"And remember, PC players natively have the CHOICE to use a controller or a keyboard! Xbox players don't! Why is choice okay for one platform but not for the other?
I'd guess because you use it and you're not disadvantaged!"

Your idea takes away the choice for PC and gives it to Xbox, because you acknowledge the problem yet only fix it for part of the community. Why is choice okay for one platform but not for the other?
Actually I use a controller, since it's just a casual relaxing game. Nice assumption though.

My original point, "People would rather have an excuse to why they failed than have some selfreflection and see their own mistakes."

Still stands, it's human nature to use anything against you as an excuse to why you failed. It requires a special mindset to actually lose that attitude and completly focus on yourself, something not many have learned.

But I'm done arguing with you because we're just going back and forth without actually going anywhere and are spamming the forums.

If you actually want to discuss the topic you can answer my question and give disadvantages beside KB+M vs gamepad, that don't exist between different Xbox versions. But just like many others that have tried it before, I assume based on your last couple replies, that you will not be able to do that because they don't exist.

@caisterkaos said in All this complaining about Xbox vs PC players...:

@aarghmaargho
Global Chat settings on PC have an advantage due to being able to be in party chat & game chat at the same time, this is not possible on xbox!

Xbox can't join both channels? That's just stupid and should be added in ASAP

Macros - Not available on xbox

It's possible

Hacks & Cheats - Not available on xbox

It's possible as well

Theres 3 more 'advantages' that PC players can have over xbox players. But the main issue is the controller vs kb+m.

It's annoying to not be able to join both crews, but it's not an advantage. It's not like your skill gets better because you can join two channels. It should be added in though for Xbox, ASAP

@caisterkaos said in All this complaining about Xbox vs PC players...:

@aarghmaargho
Macros are only available on xbox if using a specialist controller. Not something that many 'casual' xbox gamers use.
Not like on a pc where every player can run macros!

Not every PC gamer can run macro's. First of all it requires a 3rd party software, which is illegal. Some mice providers have it in their software so it's undetectable, unfortunatly.

There are NO & i repeat NO hacks or cheats for SOT that will work on Xbox, i would like to see you prove otherwise!
All 'hacks' that are supposedly for xbox are fake, the only working hacks are on PC!

It's possible and if you want to find out, you can google and do research. I'm not going to promote hacks here or how you can get them.

Lastly, being able to hear game chat whilst in a private party is a huge advantage!! You can hear your enemy & plan your attack without them being able to hear you, sounds like an advantage to me!

If you already come across a crew that discusses their plans in open chat you shouldn't even need that advantage.

Conclusion: The problem is gamepad vs KB+M, as I've said multiple times before.

@caisterkaos said in All this complaining about Xbox vs PC players...:

@aarghmaargho
I am fully aware it is possible to mod your box to run unsigned code in 'some' games & i am also fully aware of how difficult it is!
SOT is not one of the games with any form of working xbox hacks or glitches.
I have been into modding since way back when we were adding 50/60hz switches to NES etc. One of my main hobbies ;)
I have an xbox that can run external unsigned code & i can guarantee that no SOT hacks work. I'm not a cheater, i just like messing with code ;)
If you were to try & run unsigned code 9 times out of 10 you will be detected online straight away & you will be console banned, not just your gamertag!! Again, i do know!
I would suggest you try google again & do a little more research, the way SOT runs on xbox does not allow code to be injected. Again, i'm not going to go into details. Saying that google will only tell you so much, you have to go a bit deeper & darker to find the truth!

Watch out with what you're saying, because you are pretty much openly admitting that you hacked Sea of Thieves. Also proving my point that hacking IS possible.

With the chat settings, it's not just a case of them discussing their plans, you can tell if you've been spotted, if they are going to fight or run, if they have treasure etc. Basically you can hear everything they say in gamechat, whilst you can hear & speak with your own crew. How you think that isn't an advantage is beyond me!

As I said before, it's annoying but not gamebreaking. And it goes both ways as well PC players might be in openchat as well while others might use discord to communicate.

Nice to finally have somebody to actually try to answer my question instead of screaming the same one-liners over and over again. I must thank you for that!

@caisterkaos said in All this complaining about Xbox vs PC players...:

@aarghmaargho
I'm openly admitting to trying & failing as it is not possible in SOT on xbox, there is a difference ;)
Was all done for test purposes anyway, i had no intention of using the hacks. I was asked to see if they would run by my good friend & fellow crossplay warrior @LogansDadToo so that the evidence could be used in the future crossplay discussions. Unfortunately he got banned before being able to use the info.

Just a suggestion, I can imagine that developers don't like it when people (try to) hack their code.

It doesn't work both ways, as only the pc players have this ability. So yes, a pc player may choose to put themselves at a disadvantage by using gamechat, but the xbox players who are in private chat cannot hear them, see my point.
It may not be gamebreaking, but is still another advantage for the pc regardless.

Even with crossplay disabled the problem exists, the only way to fix this issue is balancing premade crews and random crews. So this is not related to crossplay and that brings us back again towards the KB+M vs gamepad issue

@caisterkaos said in All this complaining about Xbox vs PC players...:

@aarghmaargho
If crossplay was optional the problem would only persist on the crossplay server.
It's an xbox vs pc issue, nothing to do with control scheme.

Xbox Server - No pc players, no advantage/disadvantage
PC Server - Not really an issue as you have PTT, can use Discord, Teamspeak etc
Crossplay Server - Xbox would still be disadvantaged.

False, in the current situation it would like thise with crossplay optional.
Xbox Server - No pc players and only 1 voice channel available, might not even be able to hear your own crew if some are in party and others in game.

PC Server - "Not really an issue as you have PTT, can use Discord, Teamspeak etc"
That's the entire problem I described before, random crews need to use game chat which can be heard by others while premades can use party chat or another 3rd party chat.

Crossplay Server - Xbox and random crews would still have the problem.

Conclusion: Crossplay won't fix the Xbox chat issue and this issue is not related to crossplay only either. It should just be fixed overall, there is no reason for people not be able to join both chats.

This leads again to the conclusion that so far, the only disadvantage lies with the input device.

@caisterkaos said in All this complaining about Xbox vs PC players...:

@aarghmaargho
You're missing the point!!
Xbox has a disadvantage due to not having the same audio chat settings/options & choices (such as discord etc) as pc players.
ie we can only hear party chat or game chat, not both at once & if we could hear both at once, we'd be heard in both at once as well, which is not what happens on pc!

I'm not missing the point, it's a disadvantage that exists on PC as well.
Disabling crossplay won't fix this issue, it will only solve it for a part of the community.
An issue that can be fixed without even touching the subject of crossplay.

That is a crossplay issue!

No crossplay, no issue.

You asked for other pc advantages, well, this is one!

This is not one, because it exists in the game even after disabling crossplay.
Just because you fix it for the Xbox players doesn't mean that the problem has dissapeared.

I asked for advantages that PC players have over Xbox players, that don't exist inbetween Xbox versions or between PCs.

@aarghmaargho said in All this complaining about Xbox vs PC players...:

@vexed-anemone
Just because you used the words settings, doesn't take away the fact that input lag exist on both platforms and are different between different xbox versions and pc.

No it doesn't. However, you asked what the differences were. Xbox guys DO NOT have the option to mess with those input setting like the PC players do. That's a difference and relative to the native approach of both platforms.

Adding a XIM to my Xbox wouldn't improve that situation, therefore it's a difference between the platforms cannot only be the controls.

You actually suggested that Xbox players are better than console players by opting that it's okay to solve the issue for Xbox users but not for PC users, I'm still the one looking for fixing it for all players.

Incorrect. I agree that doing it on controllers is a better option but technically more difficult.

And remember, I support that as a middle ground, despite it not dealing with some other issues.

However, you get to choose which control system you use, natively, Xbox players don't!

We have one option and are forced to play against a system (system, because it's about native controls) that has advantage built in, whether you choose to take it or not.

Your examples, again, are different between Xbox versions as well. So they don't answer my question and aren't a reason to disable crossplay. Also they don't prove me wrong, all they show is that there aren't any other differences between Xbox and PC than the input device that don't exist between the platforms itself.

I have never asked for crossplay to be disabled. I did however say it should remain on as default and be optional for both sides.

I asked for proof of version differences but you are yet to provide any.

Saying something doesn't mean you know it's fact, that's why I installed SOT on an laptop before entering myself into these discussions.

Really... Push to talk is your argument now? That's just grasping.

Please do try and remember what you've posted and why. You asked for examples and I gave you them.

You can't now say I'm grasping because they afford you a learning experience that you're too far down the entrenched rabbit hole to take!
You didn't even know how 'push to talk' worked!

Again, that feature is native to PC! A choice unavailable to Xbox. Much like the native controller scenario.

Xbox one X is quicker off the Ferry compared to Xbox One as well.

Apparently the PC is still faster than the Xbox One X. They should all be the same, PC should definitely not be any quicker.

Using 3rd party software is cheating, no matter what it does.

True. But it's much easier to use on the PC and far more prevalent. If there was a way to not expose players to that, should the developer not consider taking it?

Theads about crossplay don't descend in confusion, they get locked because people are plain telling lies, start screaming insults and keep repeating the same lines.

And change their POV to suit their argument as they lose it. Don't forget that!

Your idea takes away the choice for PC and gives it to Xbox, because you acknowledge the problem yet only fix it for part of the community. Why is choice okay for one platform but not for the other?
Actually I use a controller, since it's just a casual relaxing game. Nice assumption though.

This was never about you.

This was about the native technical characteristics of both platforms and how they impact on the SOT community.

And for many it's not relaxing to play for a few hours and then lose it all because of natively, one control system is disadvantaged in a number of ways to another.

My original point, "People would rather have an excuse to why they failed than have some selfreflection and see their own mistakes."

Still stands, it's human nature to use anything against you as an excuse to why you failed. It requires a special mindset to actually lose that attitude and completly focus on yourself, something not many have learned.

But I'm done arguing with you because we're just going back and forth without actually going anywhere and are spamming the forums.**

These two are the best two sentences you have written.

Correct, you're done arguing with me because quite frankly, you treated this like a competition and lost, so you need to withdrawn to avoid self reflection.
I do love a #FullCircle!

@vexed-anemone
I'm done arguing because you keep repeating the same words over and over again in a different order, which is spamming the forum and is against the rules. Since I like my priveleges to post and be active on the forums, I'm not going to participate in that.

Also love all your assumptions about me, actually says a lot about your discussion skills when you start making it personal.

I didn't lose because my point still stands and hasn't been debunked by anybody so far, and I definitly didn't treat it as a competitition.

You said you didn't direct it at me yet this is what you said "I'd guess because you use it and you're not disadvantaged!"
That is clearly directed towards me and you assumed how I play the game to strenghten your argument.

If you want evidence that the different Xbox versions actually have differences in them, well there is google if you actually lack the knowledge of why they release new versions. It's not just to give it another color.

Regarding your grasping, I said that because that's literally what you're doing now. Just trying to come up with something that might be the answer.

Also regarding Push to talk, which you somehow say that I don't know it worked, has nothing to do with PvP. Should Xbox have both channels active, yes! Is it a problem that puts only Xbox players at a disadvantage, no!
I know what you're referring to and that is that I didn't know that Xbox can only participate in one channel only. See I can reflect on my actions and admit when I'm wrong or lack knowledge of something.

I'm not down in a rabbit hole either, I'm perfectly well aware of where I stand and what my arguments are. I can defend myself, but at sometime I get bored of replying to the same comment over and over and over again.

You've also said the word choice quite some times already to say that Xbox doesn't have the choice and PC has, just because a PC player has the choice to play with the controller doesn't take away the disadvantage. You can't say that there is a problem but because people have a choice, let's just put it aside.
There have also been a lot of "solutions" offered that give Xbox players the choice, yet take it away from the PC players.

So unless you can come up with an actual advantage besides KB+M vs gamepad, THAT DOES NOT exist between xbox versions or between PCs, there is no point in replying and risking a punishment.

@a-cranky-eskimo said in All this complaining about Xbox vs PC players...:

@aarghmaargho putting angry (and unbiasedly wrong) conclusions in bold lettering surely makes you right lol....

First off, it's not a conclusion. I ask for answer to question.
Second, it's in bold because apperently that part of the question get's missed by a lot of people. Has nothing to do with anger, just highlighting the part that apperently get's missed for almost 2 pages now.

Just like adding this option would “kill this game” because “splitting the playerbase”.

Which are words that I have never taken into my mouth, just because others use these ridiculous statements doesn't mean I do. All I said was that disabling crossplay will have a big impact on PC-servers.

You really have to be willfully ignorant to take this stance, or at the very least selfish and uninformed, which is embarrrasing either way considering who is still arguing for things to stay the same rather than find any solutions, it’s like dragging this whole topic down is your solution.

Why am I selfish and uninformed? I look for a solution for all players, to balance it for all players. As said before, I agree that there is an issue between KB+M vs gamepad. I've also stated many times before that that is something that should be fixed or atleast looked into and then have a statement from Rare.

I don't see another issue that doesn't exist between different Xbox or PC versions, something that I've asked extra information for. And that is something that nobody has yet been able to provide.

This is why we can’t have nice things.

Is it still for the sake of “inclusivity” to not have optional crossplay? Because when a large portion don’t want to be “included” if it means playing against pc players, and will quit because the game lacks content and the “content” that is there is player interaction, which isn’t balanced, the game seems pretty unappealing for a lot of people at that point. If rare actually cares about their playerbase they will give the option and the servers will be fine, and they will likely get a very big positive reaction for doing it.

For me it’s the content, but this topic really shouldn’t even still be up in the air. Add server options already rare.

As I said before, if they want to add server options. They should do it based on input device, that way all players get to choose what they want to use.

@caisterkaos said in All this complaining about Xbox vs PC players...:

@aarghmaargho
It exists on pc as well but not all pc players use gamechat as a lot use other sevices so it doesn't affect them all, but then again it's only the pc players that benefit!

And please explain why it is an issue when PC players have an advantage over Xbox players, but when PC players get an advantage over some PC players. All of the sudden it isn't an issue anymore because it doesn't affect all of them.

Just the same as macros & hacks & KB+M.>

Yeah you keep saying this...
So it comes down to KB+M since both are possible on Xbox as well, as you yourself have stated before.

So all the advantages & problems come from the pc side, hence why xbox players want optional crossplay.

@a-cranky-eskimo
Aah it looked like it was directed towards me, that explains. Thanks for clearing that up.

Regarding your answer to my question.

• Cheaters are on both platforms, though they shouldn't be in games at all.
• Hotkeys are related to input device, so balancing around that solves the issue.
• Macros, again are possible on both platforms.
• Load times, those differ between different Xbox versions as well. This is related to hardware, the best and recent hardware will have the best performance
• Frame rates, again based on hardware. An Xbox One X will be better than the basic Xbox One.

Hardware balancing will never happen because that's just impossible.
So we can look further, especially since crossplay is the future of gaming. Companies already spend years of developing it and investing money in it, and have their futures planned out.

That brings us down to the point on what we can balance around, and that's input device.

Sidenote: Just because somebody is an old Xbox player doesn't make them any more valuable than a PC player or a just recent Xbox player. All are equal and should be treated as such.

@a-cranky-eskimo said in All this complaining about Xbox vs PC players...:

@aarghmaargho they aren’t equal in how much they have paid microsoft, the company making the decisions in this specific case.

Just because you've paid a monthly fee to be able to play, doesn't mean that you've paid more than a pc user to microsoft.
It has been clear for years now in what direction microsoft is going, if somebody is genuinly against it they would have stopped supporting microsoft a long time ago.

You’re trivializing things such as cheating which is an almost exclusively pc issue, and how macros and other things are easy to accomplish on pc compared to Xbox, and more prevalent,

Just because it's easier doesn't take away the fact that both macros and cheats are possible on Xbox as well. You can't come up with the argument that you're against crossplay due to this when they exist on your own platform.

and the fact that Xbox doesn’t have native mouse and keyboard support and they can’t view the issue from solely a control input perspective.

It's actually possible, all that is required is an open mind for it and have some knowledge of the actual differences between Xbox and PC. The differences that actually impact a game in a way that it's not impacted for versions of a console/pc.

If that is what they do in the future, so be it, for now crossplay should be optional.

As I said before, Microsoft is clear on what the future will hold for their games. If people were genuinly against it, they would have bailed a long time ago.

Crossplay isn't the issue, KB+M vs gamepad is. If you could talk about an issue within a casual game, because people tend to forget that as well.

Sea of Thieves is just a casual Shared World Adventure Game.

And that's where I'll leave it, because we're just talking in circles and that's against the forum rules. Ejoy the seas!