Smaller guilds need to understand they should grow or admit that guilds aren't for them. I don't mean to be harsh but I am tired of people saying the game "needs" this. You can't partake in a social feature and expect to be rewarded for being anti-social.
I know that there's an argument that solo slooping is more efficient and thus the system is rewarding the anti-social approach but that's coming from anti-social people who seem to care more about grinding through the content as fast as possible. @Captain-Fob4141 is 100% right...
you don't need to finish everything in one day...just enjoy your time.
Try interact more and find new friends on the seas to play with. Maybe try find a bigger guild, ideally a proper social one, not a grindy one, and embrace that community. You'll be glad you did.
It's ok to not be social enough and feel out of your comfort zone. You gotta push passed that and you'll learn to be more social and that'll enrich your life, both in-game and out of game, immensely. Feel free to be picky because like you said, there be strangers so keep your wits about you and you'll be fine. Or just accept the fact being in a small guild will take longer to accomplish things and that's ok too.
@captain-fob4141 said in Smaller Guilds Need A Points Multiplier:
@eguzky you don't need to finish everything in one day.... just enjoy your time
True but it's kind of disheartening to drop off some loot and the progress bar moves 3 pixels.
I've had times where I was not even sure it DID move, other than the guild level appearing on the bottom of my screen to indicate such.
@b4njax You clearly like being "social" because I see you post the same thing each time. You also seem to think because you like social play that people have to play the game your way.
Funny, before season 10 dropped this game was sold as a "sandbox game", including by forum goes responding in this very section. Play how you want with who you want. Now guilds are here the same people are telling the smaller guilds, or "anti-social" as you put it, they're now playing the game wrong; It's no longer "sandbox" if it's played wrong.
@captain-fob4141 said in Smaller Guilds Need A Points Multiplier:
@eguzky you don't need to finish everything in one day.... just enjoy your time
Nobody is asking for it to be done in a day, a weekend or a week. This is such a disingenuous response.
@b4njax said in Smaller Guilds Need A Points Multiplier:
Smaller guilds need to understand they should grow or admit that guilds aren't for them. I don't mean to be harsh but I am tired of people saying the game "needs" this. You can't partake in a social feature and expect to be rewarded for being anti-social.
I know that there's an argument that solo slooping is more efficient and thus the system is rewarding the anti-social approach but that's coming from anti-social people who seem to care more about grinding through the content as fast as possible. @Captain-Fob4141 is 100% right...
you don't need to finish everything in one day...just enjoy your time.
Try interact more and find new friends on the seas to play with. Maybe try find a bigger guild, ideally a proper social one, not a grindy one, and embrace that community. You'll be glad you did.
It's ok to not be social enough and feel out of your comfort zone. You gotta push passed that and you'll learn to be more social and that'll enrich your life, both in-game and out of game, immensely. Feel free to be picky because like you said, there be strangers so keep your wits about you and you'll be fine. Or just accept the fact being in a small guild will take longer to accomplish things and that's ok too.
Or, and here's a wild idea, you can accept the idea that even smaller guilds should be able to enjoy the content, including guild levelling, without needing to 'go outside our comfort zones'?
Smaller guilds are just as valid as larger ones, and we should not be forced to do something we ar enot comfortable with IRL or be forced out of that content.
I'm kinda puzzled at this issue, why aren't small guilds able to enjoy the content? There's not even a cap or anything, just takes a bit more time to get there. What's making 6 pixels instead of 3?
It's just math that the more people play in a group, the more xp points are being gathered... what's being particularly unjust? Are mathematics unjust?
I haven't even got into guilds yet to be honest and am not really in any hurry to grind it but I'm really trying to understand why is this seen like injustice and disheartening?
For example playing solo (like I do) will raise half as much gold/rep as quickly than if I were playing in duo or a quarter than with a full galleon, is this unjust? This is rhetorical, not trying to sound hostile, but Should solo player get a boost to compensate? In gold, rep? Firepower? Should being solo give you twice as much damage and health as a duo crew to compensate?
Again, I'm at a point where I'm not even wanting to start a fight or anything but I'm trying to wrap my head about the injustice here, of course people aren't forced to socialize if they don't feel like it, but it's just a fact that a larger group will usually be more efficient.
It's not like a guild needs a certain amount of people to unlock special thing, every guild gets the same stuff in good time no?
This is all just rhetorical and am genuinely trying to understand, and I don't even have a horse in this race since I don't care much in guilds and probably won't really partake in them.
@bloodybil said in Smaller Guilds Need A Points Multiplier:
I'm kinda puzzled at this issue, why aren't small guilds able to enjoy the content? There's not even a cap or anything, just takes a bit more time to get there. What's making 6 pixels instead of 3?
It's just math that the more people play in a group, the more xp points are being gathered... what's being particularly unjust? Are mathematics unjust?
I haven't even got into guilds yet to be honest and am not really in any hurry to grind it but I'm really trying to understand why is this seen like injustice and disheartening?For example playing solo (like I do) will raise half as much gold/rep as quickly than if I were playing in duo or a quarter than with a full galleon, is this unjust? This is rhetorical, not trying to sound hostile, but Should solo player get a boost to compensate? In gold, rep? Firepower? Should being solo give you twice as much damage and health as a duo crew to compensate?
Again, I'm at a point where I'm not even wanting to start a fight or anything but I'm trying to wrap my head about the injustice here, of course people aren't forced to socialize if they don't feel like it, but it's just a fact that a larger group will usually be more efficient.It's not like a guild needs a certain amount of people to unlock special thing, every guild gets the same stuff in good time no?
This is all just rhetorical and am genuinely trying to understand, and I don't even have a horse in this race since I don't care much in guilds and probably won't really partake in them.
The math is that a guild with 30 people is turning in 30 quests, either all at the same time, or spread out through a day as different people log in and out.
Whereas a guild with 2 people is turning in a fraction of the quests in the same time frame and so getting a fraction of the guild EXP.
It makes playing in a small guild feel very hollow.
@bloodybil said in Smaller Guilds Need A Points Multiplier:
I'm kinda puzzled at this issue, why aren't small guilds able to enjoy the content? There's not even a cap or anything, just takes a bit more time to get there. What's making 6 pixels instead of 3?
A guild needs to get to 15 to get the Emissary, which turbocharges PvE gains (at the cost of zero reputation gain elsewhere, I believe). To get there by now you'd minimally have needed about four ships playing 3-4 hours/day, at least 5 days a week, since release. To rub salt in that wound, playing in a group is detrimental to gains. So the feature is wildly anti-social.
Hourglass has the best gain for Guilds, but a lot of us don't care for hourglass. Sure, we could loss farm it (there are those in my guild whose connection is Starlink based, so that's what it is, deliberate or not), but if we want to do it ourselves, in PvE, we're basically tasked with a long and slow grind to get to 15. Since I prefer to play with friends, HG is off the cards.
There's also content gated by the guild system. It may not be significant to many, but it's all we have for the season so far. By setting the guild emissary so high up, Rare created a situation where people ask for PvE gains to be increased for smaller guilds to offset the situation; if the flag were lower, or the requirements to get to the next 'content' part of the guild line weren't so spaced out, this would be diminished.
It's not like a guild needs a certain amount of people to unlock special thing, every guild gets the same stuff in good time no?
Due to XP scaling, it's reasonable to assume most guilds won't ever get everything unlocked, which means commendations (which are at the heart of the content at the moment) remain will gated.
@orloglausa said in Smaller Guilds Need A Points Multiplier:
@bloodybil said in Smaller Guilds Need A Points Multiplier:
I'm kinda puzzled at this issue, why aren't small guilds able to enjoy the content? There's not even a cap or anything, just takes a bit more time to get there. What's making 6 pixels instead of 3?
A guild needs to get to 15 to get the Emissary, which turbocharges PvE gains (at the cost of zero reputation gain elsewhere, I believe). To get there by now you'd minimally have needed about four ships playing 3-4 hours/day, at least 5 days a week, since release. To rub salt in that wound, playing in a group is detrimental to gains. So the feature is wildly anti-social.
Hourglass has the best gain for Guilds, but a lot of us don't care for hourglass. Sure, we could loss farm it (there are those in my guild whose connection is Starlink based, so that's what it is, deliberate or not), but if we want to do it ourselves, in PvE, we're basically tasked with a long and slow grind to get to 15. Since I prefer to play with friends, HG is off the cards.
There's also content gated by the guild system. It may not be significant to many, but it's all we have for the season so far. By setting the guild emissary so high up, Rare created a situation where people ask for PvE gains to be increased for smaller guilds to offset the situation; if the flag were lower, or the requirements to get to the next 'content' part of the guild line weren't so spaced out, this would be diminished.
It's not like a guild needs a certain amount of people to unlock special thing, every guild gets the same stuff in good time no?
Due to XP scaling, it's reasonable to assume most guilds won't ever get everything unlocked, which means commendations (which are at the heart of the content at the moment) remain will gated.
Ah I see, thanks for the explanation, seems like a weird system indeed. It's still pretty new, surely they will iron out the kinks, but most likely since it's a social feature to begin with, I guess a minimum of people will always be needed to get to the interesting stuff, now I understand the many threads recruiting for people.
@captain-fob4141 true but it would be nice to gain at lest 1 level in the guild in multiple play sessions like my crew sunk a few skeleton ship did a fort and sunk 3 player ships one day and another day 2 more Skelton ships plus the kraken and a player ship and brought in something like 700k and all we got was half a level out of what 75 levels that's way too slow
In the last state of play they addressed the HG v everything else growth for Guilds. I'd expect an adjustment.
Also, stop saying anti-social when you mean asocial. Asocial people don't need or desire much social interaction. Think a variety of introversion. Antisocial wants to actually cause problems in society. (Thanks for coming to my TED talk lol)
Lastly...
Solo guilds are at an obvious disadvantage. That's how multipliers work. I got 24 people sailing against my...well me lol. I got a whole half a level bro. Seeing as little as I've played, I don't mind lol.
You clearly like being "social" because I see you post the same thing each time. You also seem to think because you like social play that people have to play the game your way.
Funny, before season 10 dropped this game was sold as a "sandbox game", including by forum goes responding in this very section. Play how you want with who you want. Now guilds are here the same people are telling the smaller guilds, or "anti-social" as you put it, they're now playing the game wrong; It's no longer "sandbox" if it's played wrong.
I think you're taking what I am trying to say out of proportion a little. I'm talking about a single feature and it's intended purpose, not the game as a whole. That said, looking back on my words I can see I was too standoffish so I acknowledge I could've worded things better. My issue is more about trying to change guilds in way that, in my opinion, is counterintuitive to how guilds typically work in games than it is about being a smaller guild.
Also I certainly wouldn't say I think people have to play the game my way though. My opinions here are based on the intention of guilds as I understand them.
Or, and here's a wild idea, you can accept the idea that even smaller guilds should be able to enjoy the content, including guild levelling, without needing to 'go outside our comfort zones'?
There's a difference between enjoying the content and having part of that content, in this case the guild levelling, catered specifically towards enabling you to ignore the rest of it.
Also, stop saying anti-social when you mean asocial. Asocial people don't need or desire much social interaction. Think a variety of introversion. Antisocial wants to actually cause problems in society. (Thanks for coming to my TED talk lol)
You got me there. It's a good distinction and I am glad you pointed it out.
Either way, maybe the solution isn't adjusting rep based on guild size. If anything, it's a case of increasing the baseline rep gain just enough so it feels more impactful and less of a slog, at least at lower levels.
That's fine. If they were to introduce such a thing then it should come with it's own limitation; such as you can have x2 xp, but the guild's member cap is lowered to 8, to 12, to whatever. However, I will say that I'd agree and I think a straight XP multiplier is probably not the way to go for smaller guilds because there is undoubtedly better ways to make progression feel more meaningful.
Honestly, from what I've played so far it feels like progress has been balanced around a full 24-man guild with every individual contributing their fair shares. If this were an MMO, that'd be a hardcore guild (or very heavily curated by the owner) and most guilds aren't that and will never be so.
@husayra said in Smaller Guilds Need A Points Multiplier:
That's fine. If they were to introduce such a thing then it should come with it's own limitation; such as you can have x2 xp, but the guild's member cap is lowered to 8, to 12, to whatever. However, I will say that I'd agree and I think a straight XP multiplier is probably not the way to go for smaller guilds because there is undoubtedly better ways to make progression feel more meaningful.
Honestly, from what I've played so far it feels like progress has been balanced around a full 24-man guild with every individual contributing their fair shares. If this were an MMO, that'd be a hardcore guild (or very heavily curated by the owner) and most guilds aren't that and will never be so.
Why not just make it so the rep gain changes based on guild size, instead of limiting the guild's cap like a punishment?
Once the guild goes over a certain size; it stops getting the bonus.
Funny reading the above comments. Clearly some are part of a much bigger guild :p
Ive tried to join guilds who broadcast themselves as chill people, but it seems this always a lie. They deem you have to play certain amount of time while "Have fun, chill" If you dont "play certain amount" you be removed.
So yeah, maybe my group of 3 only friends form our own guild, watching everyone in these bigger guilds of 24 skyrocket past lvl 15, using Emissary while were still on lvl 4. Kind of makes you wanna quit guilds and lose out on a % of the game just because "Its not for you"
Like solo players, small Guilds need a little something to encourage "Dont give up"
@pithyrumble Thanks for the educational moment. I always considered myself antisocial but I guess I am more Asocial... Though words evolve I guess because we want things to be more specific instead of using umbrella words. Though we could use the same argument everyone uses for everything else in Sea of Thieves. The whole definition of a pirate is they are all anti-social then. But then a google of both words and you get "Asocial" - avoiding social interaction; inconsiderate of or hostile to others. and "Anti-social" - not sociable; not wanting the company of others. So depending on the source of the definitions and the usage...
While they did imply they will be boosting treasure value for guild rep we also know how bad they are at improving upon and updating their content. The improved cargo values... and still no one does cargo runs. They could have improved them again to make it more appealing but nah. They made a few minor changes to hourglass then forgot about it. Arena was reworked once then never touched again... While not the only issue simply adding more cosmetic rewards to arena every season would have boosted engagement.
While it's expected a solo guild would take much longer to level I don't think when you add a system with 1000 levels and it's your only new content obviously some people are going to want to try and do it themselves and it should at least be possible. Hunters call is so hated by Rare that I don't even loot meat any more. Seeing how meg meat isn't even worth the time to cook with 2 pots since it literally has 0 impact on the guild progression. And saying guilds is a social feature when it's just 24 people playing solo at the same time for faster gains. So we punish one person who wants to play solo but reward 24 people who want to play solo together...
With this system, guilds with more players where few of them help with progression would be more harmed.
At the beginning of the guilds I was only playing pvp to get the level 1000 curses, I got one distinction and some levels practically alone, I had about 15 players in my guild but my progress was greater than everyone else combined... if If your idea were valid, it would be better for me to expel everyone from my guild, farm xp with this multiplier and then invite them back.
This is a distortion that would be created, even when pvp is balanced for guilds, it will be more worthwhile to have 5 very active players than 15 with the majority inactive.
Ahoy, did not want to create a new topic for this, but just curious.
How do you see/treat guilds?
Since there is no in built guild messages/chat, nor guild members are automatically in my friends list, nor there is any incentive to get to know people.
For me the guild is ''Mutual agreement to sail under one flag'' I have people that I play with, others who join the guild are expected to do the same. If they want to sail on my boat they are welcome, but I am not planning on creating discord/some xbox chat to force interactions.
How do you people go about these guilds? Do you invite strangers and then try to become friends with them? Do you instantly send friend invites to everyone in your guild?
We have 11/12 members, apart from people on my friends list who I play with, I have no clue if other members are new players/vet players, their skill level, name, play preferences etc..Also I noticed that most are just afk too.
To me these guilds at the moment are, if I went to Sainsburys (walmart) and we get to choose what color bags we want to bag our groceries, so people with orange ones will contribute to their points, while people with purple bags will accumulate theirs...It's up to these customers if people with orange bags want to interact, otherwise there is no incentives or reason to do so, obviously you can be fake about it and pretend you care (if you really want those guild levels to go up for some reason).. I hope it makes sense what I am going on about.
Guilds seem like a pretty cool idea to me, though the crew size should be considered when awarding points, not just the number of individual crews.
My guild, that consists of just two people, is at level 9. I do some FoTD and Hourglass when I can. I really like how the ceiling for cooperation and organization is set fairly high so that people who are good with those skills can be rewarded for bringing out that part of the game.
I am one of those people that understand that guilds aren't really for me, at least not in terms of management and recruitment, and I'll never get the top tier rewards. I am also aware that I will never get that tall tale gold curse, or the lvl 1000 PVP gold curses either. There's really nothing wrong with knowing that something isn't your cup of tea.
@jumbie7311 said in Smaller Guilds Need A Points Multiplier:
@b4njax
Guilds seem like a pretty cool idea to me, though the crew size should be considered when awarding points, not just the number of individual crews.
It's a fair point. I do appreciate that it's a straightforward system though. Your guild does a thing, gets rep for doing the thing.
My guild, that consists of just two people, is at level 9.
That is legitimately impressive in my opinion!
I am one of those people that understand that guilds aren't really for me, at least not in terms of management and recruitment, and I'll never get the top tier rewards. I am also aware that I will never get that tall tale gold curse, or the lvl 1000 PVP gold curses either. There's really nothing wrong with knowing that something isn't your cup of tea.
You have my utmost respect for this.
@zig-zag-ltu For me. My guild is the discord I'm a part of. The discord has about 200 people. Most come and go or are there for other games. Our guild in SoT has 23/24 people. So we go lucky we all fit. but we usually have multiple boats out sailing and are all in the same vc just BSing and laughing into the night. If a boat is doing HG they will just to another call or we all go silent for battle comms and watch the in discord stream.
I am aware we are likely a special case. Buts its been fun so far. I particularly enjoy hopping on to solo something quick and finding my sloop is missing =).
@captain-coel I think the nieche community you guys have, is exactly what this content is targeted for. I remember my days in one myself - The Art of Warfare, shame their chapter for Sea of Thieves got closed as I was really looking forward to being a part of.
My thought is everything should be attainable to everyone. Guilds should be progressing by percentage based on the amount of people in your guild so that a small guild would get the same rep for turning in the same things as a larger guild would. Im not saying to make it really fast to get D10 but make it reasonably attainable for everyone. Much like HG PvP it is such a huge grind for most that they will never be able to attain it. The ones that reach a bigger goal first will be able to flex they have already gotten there just from having the cosmetics way before others. I think this locking things behind level 1000 grinds is Rares attempt at giving the community something to work towards yet really really long hard grinds does the opposite. It is off putting and gets too monotonous to those that may lack skill or time to progress through it which in turn leaves them with mind numbing things to do that ends up not being fun. Locking anything behind a level that will take most several years to obtain isnt good content and a very poor decision.
@zig-zag-ltu said in Smaller Guilds Need A Points Multiplier:
@captain-coel I think the nieche community you guys have, is exactly what this content is targeted for. I remember my days in one myself - The Art of Warfare, shame their chapter for Sea of Thieves got closed as I was really looking forward to being a part of.
yeah man it's more like a group of friends that play games together. Most of us have met other people in the discord irl. We have channels for a half a dozen games that we are playing or have saved worlds.
