Chain shot non sens need heavy balancing work

  • Stew360
    Marauder
    Insider
    Founder

    The current chainshot meta is very annoying and requires zero real skills to pull it off . its hitbox is way to large to be acceptable to be a 1 hit to down a mast and its way to long to repair the said mast to be balanced ...

    Rare really need to realize that chainshot is very poorly balanced and abusive into the game and make the naval combat way to broken ..

    Chainshot should be a 3 hit at least to bring the mast down .. Hitbox should be less than 2x the hitbox of canon balls instead of 3x .. And chainshot should be rare commodity instead of the abundant spammy things that it is now ..

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  • ZiG ZaG LTU
    Commander
    Insider

    @stew360 said in Chain shot non sens need heavy balancing work:

    The current chainshot meta is very annoying and requires zero real skills to pull it off . its hitbox is way to large to be acceptable to be a 1 hit to down a mast and its way to long to repair the said mast to be balanced ...

    Does that mean that you are the most fearsome pirate and the menace of the seas?

    It takes skill and those shots are limited. If both ships have no masts left and are facing each other broadside, well then the pirates with best cannon skill will win.

    P.S. Sloop takes 2.

    And in general, I wholeheartedly disagree about naval combat being broken, naval is actually the part of PVP that is rather well balanced and really fun compared to weapons.

    Just my opinion.

  • Stew360
    Marauder
    Insider
    Founder

    @zig-zag-ltu

    Ship combat is broken as it is , Rare across the years since launch have added tons of stuff without thinking about all the repercussion it will have on gameplay , predictability and reliability of the combat . True for FPS and for Ship combat .. The whole chain shot spamming non sens is actually ridiculous and way to easy to pull off .. Any wannabe end up to be able to spam and abuse chainshot in almost every single fights ...

    I am all for variety when said variety isnt detrimental to the overall experience .. Fire and explosive shots are okish but chainshot isnt

    They need to either speed up the speed at wich mast can be raise , and increase the number of chainshot require to bring down mast .. Of any ships

  • Unleet1
    Lord
    Insider

    I laughed out loud reading this thread. There have been a couple times end-of-session, I've stockpiled of 100 or more chains, and let loose into the first galleon I saw. Usually I'm firing max-range (to prevent mermless boards and four-cannon broadside spam), plus you can pepper mids and lowers into that massive target.

  • RealStyli
    Vanguard
    Insider

    Making them a 3-hit would essentially mean they're no better than a cannonball at taking down masts, defeating the purpose of having them in the game at all. I don't think damage needs to be adjusted anymore than it already has been.

    I agree, and I've said it before, that the spawnrate for chainshots does need adjusting somewhat. I regularly leave outposts with 20+ of them. In my opinion, they should be removed from freshly spawned ship barrels and have their spawnrate lowered considerably on outposts. Remove them from Captains of the Damned TT as well, and anywhere where they spawn predictably - to prevent farming.

    Simply lowering the amount of them a crew is likely to have would cut down on the spam and make them a more considered choice during combat.

  • heslashthem
    Legend
    Insider

    Chainshots are perfect as they are. Getting de-masted? Catch your mast, fix, drop your sails. EZ.

  • TheGlimGlam
    Captain
    Insider

    Chainshots as they are now are the only thing that make it so every naval fight doesn't last half an hour. If you make them worse every ship is going to drop sails, run, and repair every time they take hits, leading to never ending fights.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    as far as risk reward goes chainshots should have always been rare and tied to server investment, mainly completing pve

    wraithballs are an example of how to implement power into a risk/reward environment and chainshots have been an example of how to do it destructively.

    The damage is already done on chainshots, the game already paid the price for a couple of years of people spamming 50-100 chainshots.

    They've brought the quantity down so they aren't heading in the wrong direction.

    The environment has improved enough in risk/reward despite chain shots and has adapted enough to where it largely is what it is. Time requirement has gone down, gathering and selling speed has increased, it's sustainable now. Not ideal, not in line with balanced risk/reward, but sustainable.

  • ciciflav6
    Castaway

    @stew360 said in Chain shot non sens need heavy balancing work:

    The current chainshot meta is very annoying and requires zero real skills to pull it off . its hitbox is way to large to be acceptable to be a 1 hit to down a mast and its way to long to repair the said mast to be balanced ...

    Rare really need to realize that chainshot is very poorly balanced and abusive into the game and make the naval combat way to broken ..

    Chainshot should be a 3 hit at least to bring the mast down .. Hitbox should be less than 2x the hitbox of canon balls instead of 3x .. And chainshot should be rare commodity instead of the abundant spammy things that it is now ..

    I completely disagree with everything said above.

    Chainshot, Anchorballs or boarding and anchoring are the only methods available to immobilize a ship.

    Anchorballs are relatively rare.

    Boarding and anchoring is hard to do against a competent full crew with no pressure.

    Therefore chainshots are literally the number one way to immobilize a ship.

    Chainshots are heavier than regular cannonballs and the velocity of chainshots is lower than regular cannonballs. So in order to hit a mast with them you must lead more in both axes horizontal and vertical.

    Chainshots cannot be purchased and although they aren’t hard to find they aren’t nearly as abundant as firebombs, cannonballs, planks and food.

    Masts that have been snapped can be caught right away to mitigate the mast falling all the way down and reduce the time it takes to reset the mast to its fully upright position significantly.

    I don’t think chainshots are an issue whatsoever.

    What I do think is an issue is how tanky a competent duo sloop can be.

    And

    How easy it is to runaway and reset in a fight.

    In my opinion, naval combat should have an even greater effect on ships.

    I think water in a ship’s hull should affect the ship’s top speed.

    I think masts that are snapped while sails are already lowered shouldn’t be able to be caught until the mast falls all the way down.

    And I think that cannonball splash damage to players below deck needs a buff. Players standing right next to where a cannonball is impacting the hull take a measly 5 or 10 damage. That’s a joke. Should be something like 10-30 damage depending on how close a player is to the point of impact.

    Personally I think naval combat needs to have a greater effect on ships. I think running away to reset with a ton of damage should be more difficult.

    Why? Because the way it is now you can just run constantly even if you’re confined to an hourglass circle it doesn’t matter it’s still difficult to do anything to stop them from running.

  • ciciflav6
    Castaway

    @realstyli

    20+ at an outpost. I think that’s an exaggeration. I’m going to science it in just a few minutes.

  • ZiG ZaG LTU
    Commander
    Insider

    @ciciflav6 said in Chain shot non sens need heavy balancing work:

    @realstyli

    20+ at an outpost. I think that’s an exaggeration. I’m going to science it in just a few minutes.

    You won't even collect 10.

    The PVP sweats who have tons of them, probably know where and how to farm them and are obviously very good with their shots as they finish the fight with same amount as they started or more.

    People concentrated on PVE finish with so many, because they played for multiple hours, searched barrels religiously and obviously avoided PVP otherwise they wouldn't have so many.

  • ciciflav6
    Castaway

    @zig-zag-ltu

    I kinda feel like the number of chains found at outposts has been silently buffed like when you find chains you tend to find 3-5 of them not just one or two.

    I would guess you can easily leave an outpost with 12+ chains on average. Maybe more. I still don’t think there’s anything wrong with chainshots either in function or rarity.

  • ZiG ZaG LTU
    Commander
    Insider

    @ciciflav6 I think they are fine myself. When we were doing the grind for the hourglass curse wished we had more.

    Idk, I've just finished my grind for the 500 skelly ships.

    So last few sessions, I would hop on. Search every barrel/most quickly, purchase all shipwright supplies and go for the fleet event. I never had more than 12 probably.

    Or I would load up, search the whole outpost, purchase supplies and go do some reaper, also same thing. Idk maybe some people are more lucky with them. I seem to find less curse balls at outposts, where as before would always find at least 1 or two.

    Also I really like @WolfManbush thoughts about PVE giving out them as rewards. Since World Events are contested, a supply crate containing them, curse balls, fire bomb crate should be added to all world events. Athena voyages should give them out too. OoS can give you wraith balls, some phantom chainshots would be cool too. Gold hoarders could provide them from X marks the spot maps, as an extra dig location. Merchant sunken ship voyage would give you those supplies when you open the cabin.

    Would be amazing if the random spawns were nerfed once again, but you would have guaranteed drop from PVE...The only problem...more complaints about pirates attacking each other.

  • RealStyli
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @ciciflav6 said in Chain shot non sens need heavy balancing work:

    @realstyli

    20+ at an outpost. I think that’s an exaggeration. I’m going to science it in just a few minutes.

    I can promise you, it's not.

  • ZiG ZaG LTU
    Commander
    Insider

    @realstyli Are you playing on a sloop?

    Is it possible that perhaps if you spawn a Galleon, the outpost spawns more supplies for you?

    I honestly can't remember last time I had 20 chain shots from the outpost I spawn. Meaning 4 From stock supplies and 16 collected.

  • OtherFanboy
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @stew360 first you can only hold 5 chain shots second iv seen people miss 4/5 shot per cannon yea they can a huge problem when they hit but if you crew is on top of it when you see a hit you can catch the mast and patch before it falls

  • ciciflav6
    Castaway

    @realstyli

    Just tried 3 separate servers ended up spawning at ancient 3x in a row.

    Never got more than 12 chains and that includes the 4 you get by default.

    I’m not saying it’s impossible to get 20 but saying it’s common seems a bit of a stretch.

    I’ll keep testing more when I get back home.

  • a10dr4651
    Commander
    Insider

    In terms of spawn rate I think they should be harder to get, same chance as pineapple and tied into PvE, probably skelly fleet but and this is a big but, if that happens, the ships need to start with more to balance it for those who are going for short PvP sessions such as hourglass.

  • RealStyli
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @zig-zag-ltu

    Playing on a sloop, solo most of the time.

    @ciciflav6

    Far from scientific, but here's 5 server hops:

    alt text
    alt text
    alt text
    alt text
    alt text

    Just collected chainshots, didn't wait for a barrel refresh, checked each barrel once only. Didn't collect any from floating barrels or any supplies left by other crews. Port Merrick gave the most, probably due to the number of barrels.

  • ciciflav6
    Castaway

    @realstyli

    How many times did you spawn on Port Merrick?

    I’m doing more testing now.

  • RealStyli
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @ciciflav6

    Just the once. The other high ones were Plunder Outpost and Daggertooth.

  • ciciflav6
    Castaway

    @realstyli

    Just set sail as a solo sloop on Xbox only servers 10 times.

    2 out of 10 attempts I was able to acquire more than 20 chainshots.

    The following values include the 4 chainshots you get by default.

    Sanctuary - 14 chains
    Ancient - 8 chains
    Ancient - 9 chains
    Daggertooth - 10 chains
    Plunder - 11 chains
    Ancient - 21 chains
    Sanctuary - 11 chains
    Daggertooth - 8 chains
    Daggertooth - 12 chains
    Port Merrick - 22 chains

    126 / 10 = 12.6 average

    This includes all the out of the way barrels that a significant number of players may skip when supplying up. I know I don’t bother going for the out of the way barrels myself.

    But you know what after doing this experiment. I would say a great idea for a YouTube video is a guide on what the most efficient pathing is to check all the battles for each outpost.

    Because sometimes you get lucky and those out of the way barrels have 4 chains or a pineapple or cursed cannonballs.

  • RiptideAtlantic
    Marauder
    Insider

    @ciciflav6 Now that is science. Impressive!

  • RealStyli
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @ciciflav6

    Good testing. But I think with more data points, that average will likely increase closer to 15 or 16. Still, 20% of the time you are leaving an outpost with 20 or more chainshots - too early to call, but Port Merrick does seem to be the most advantageous. Seems rather excessive to me, in any case.

    Personally, I think leaving an outpost with more than 10 should be very rare. Bearing in mind that most crews will accumulate a lot more as they sail. If that's insufficient, I would say crews are relying on spamming them far too often rather than using them tactically.

  • ciciflav6
    Castaway

    @realstyli

    Spamming them because many players miss chains even veteran players often miss chains.

    I still think the spawn rate of chainshots as it is, is fine.

    Any supply balance issues meaning a crew has infinite x, probably has more to do with the hourglass QoL change that made the fixed ship supply barrels float up after a ship is scuttled.

    You start streaking in hourglass and you can acquire basically infinite supplies pretty easily. Sometimes you can get really good supplies from your first hourglass victory.

    In my opinion, it’s a sandbox game and so there will always be a way to farm supplies so essentially I don’t look at a crew with more supplies than I as a problem of the game it’s more a problem of me not taking the time to get supplies. There are many ways to get supplies.

  • Stew360
    Marauder
    Insider
    Founder

    @realstyli

    Yep rarity but still there the advantage is how large the hitbox is compare to canon balls most peoples aim at the cross section of the mast and not at the mast itself and its very easy to aim at it and hit sucessfully .. so increasing to 2 or 3 shot to bring down the mast is a must .. now the same meta apply all the time .. Easymode chainshot .. followed by spamming fireballs or else to the mast preventing repair and spam the bottom deck last and have 1 dude to board while the chaos ensue on the ship .. its lame and makes every fights identical and lame ..

  • Stew360
    Marauder
    Insider
    Founder

    @otherfanboy

    Crates supply with hundreades of cannon balls and special cannon balls stashed right beside cannons is META right now and hold all the chainshot required for a insane spam .. possibility of a 20 chainshot spam in a row on galleon all at once + fast ressuply from top deck in crates .. so that arguments of you only hold 5 do not holdup mate !

  • OtherFanboy
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @stew360 so crews are playing smart by putting ammo crests next to cannons so what they still only have 5 shots before they have to get off a cannon open a box and collect 5 more and then get back on a cannon sure that may not take to long but more than enough time to move you ship out of range also it’s smart to use chain shot in ship to ship fights and chain shots have always been good but their draw back is lack of range and how slow they are there’s plenty of room for counter play but if you don’t try new things and only worry about the “META” you’ll never improve now I can understand lowering how many chain shots that can be found in barrels like they did with cursed cannon balls but I thing the strength of the chain shot is fine taking even two shot per mast can make them almost worthless in a fight a sloop has one mast and already takes two shots but it’s fine cuz there’s only one to aim at but a Brig or Galleon sure you could bring one down but your just as likely to get hit with blunder bombs and cannon shots to the deck before you can stop the other ship

  • RealStyli
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @stew360 said in Chain shot non sens need heavy balancing work:

    @realstyli

    Yep rarity but still there the advantage is how large the hitbox is compare to canon balls most peoples aim at the cross section of the mast and not at the mast itself and its very easy to aim at it and hit sucessfully .. so increasing to 2 or 3 shot to bring down the mast is a must .. now the same meta apply all the time .. Easymode chainshot .. followed by spamming fireballs or else to the mast preventing repair and spam the bottom deck last and have 1 dude to board while the chaos ensue on the ship .. its lame and makes every fights identical and lame ..

    The problem with a blanket nerf to chainshots is that it's a buff to brigs and galleons when facing a sloop. A sloop, with one cannon, would need to hit 6 (brig) or 9 (galleon) in succession to immobilise their enemy, and chances are they will already have repaired. Meanwhile, a brig or galleon have more cannons and can fire more rapidly at a sloop, and it's only one additional hit from what it is now.

  • Stew360
    Marauder
    Insider
    Founder

    @realstyli
    I was running sloops and destroying galeon crew back when there was No fire ,No chainshots , No BS , No Pinnaples , there was other more skills involved technique chainshot are easymode as soon as you understand them and straight out abusive .. just like the introduction of full health food that overcome the DPS and amo capacity of the weapons .. Snipers should get 4 shot instead of 5 . pistol should get 10 shot instead of 5 and blunderbuss should remain at 5 ..

    As for chainshot it should be a 3 hit at least on mast and cannon ball should do less damage than that on mast like maybe a 6 shot + to damage a mast . Ship combat right now is pure chaos lol

  • Stew360
    Marauder
    Insider
    Founder

    @otherfanboy

    There is no real drawback as soon as you understand how to shot chainshow they are easier than cannon in many regards since you can hit the mast at any point so its a HUGE T / Cross target and not just the pole itself .. it aint hard even a 6 yo kid can land chainshot when he understand how it work

  • TheGlimGlam
    Captain
    Insider

    @stew360
    Sounds like the game evolved and you failed to evolve with it.

  • Stew360
    Marauder
    Insider
    Founder

    @theglimglam

    I have no problem with the game " evolving " but i have a problem with skill less spammy " noob device " as i call them that are breaking the game balance in term of gameplay and fun ..

    Chainshot are simply to easy to use and to OP .. They should nerf cannon balls damage to mast as well as chainshot this way only 3 well placed chainshot or 6 to 8 cannonballs will break a mast

    Thats sort of comments is like saying that a OP skilless weapons in a game lets say a grenade launcher with insane AOE that one shot is " evolving " a game and if i complain about it then its because i cant use or " addapt " to the evolution ? Like what ? A 6 year old can land chainshot successfully !

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