Vote Kick (but actually viable)

  • Vote kick has been suggested many times before. Typically these suggestions have had one massive flaw, which is the potential for vote kick to be used as a method of griefing.

    Since the burried treasure update however, the game has introduced a mechanic that could fix that one flaw - rewarding progress to people not currently in sessions, as seen with the buried treasure maps.

    How it would work:

    1. Upon the pick up of loot by a crew for the first time, flag it with every player on that crew's ID

    2. Allow crews to vote kick their members, only when a voyage/tall tale is inactive and the ship isn't within the vicinity of a world event (especially including megs - to prevent shrouded ghost griefing)

    3. When a crew sells an item, loop through the item's flags. If a player is on the flags and on the crew just reward them as normal. If a player on the list of flags has been kicked, reward them through the same process that buried loot follows (but with gold as well). If a player is on the list of flags, but not ingame and hasn't been kicked, reward the loot they would have earned to another member of the crew (if they exist and haven't already been rewarded through this process).

    I will write step 3 out again in pseudo(ish) code to hopefully make it a bit clearer for those that way inclined:

    EVENT loot_sell:
    ........INT loot_rewarded = 0
    ........ARRAYLIST(of whatever type user IDs are stored as) awaiting_reward = []
    ........FOR i IN UNION OF crew AND loot_flags:
    ................IF i is in crew AND i is in loot_flags :
    ........................reward i as normal
    ........................loot_rewarded += 1
    ................IF i has been kicked AND i is in loot_flags:
    ........................reward i through buried treasure style process
    ........................loot_rewarded += 1
    ................IF i is on crew AND i is NOT in loot_flags:
    ........................awaiting_reward.append(i)
    ........FOR i IN awaiting_reward:
    ................IF loot_rewarded LESS THAN ship_size:
    ........................reward i as normal
    ........................loot_rewarded += 1

    there is the potential for awaiting_reward to be random shuffled first idk.

    This does complicate things somewhat, but is necessary to ensure the feature couldn't be abused by players to obtain more gold than ship limits usually allow.

    Edit: all this being said I am very understanding if people don't like this idea, it's more a proposal of a way to get around the obvious objection to vote kick, rather than something I necessarily think is without flaw. I'm going to try and keep my replies here to clarifying and correcting things about the idea rather than outright defending it :)

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  • Rewarding pirates for not participating, not being present, or after being kicked? 🤨

    Nah... 🙃

  • While this is about the most complete "solution" I've seen, it still enables trolling and power abuse.

    Imagine you join an open crew Brigantine. Your two crewmates clearly know one another and but seem cool. You're doing a regular Ashen Athena Voyage and are nearing that final chapter to get that tasty little nugget at the end after an hour of voyaging. They let you know that their 3rd friend just got on and they'd like for him to take your place. You say in the most harmless way "yeah absolutely team right after we dig up that Ashen Chest of Legends so I can get credit"...they don't want to wait...they want their friend in right now...they kick you.

    Now...apply that same logic to world events and trolls.

    As much as I'd like to think that power wouldn't be abused by players, it most definitely would be.

  • @wsurftvveeds
    So if I kick a friend and invite another friend, both will be rewarded ?

  • @lem0n-curry only if the total number of people getting rewarded is less than or equal to the current ship size.

    Aka that would be equivalent to locking your first friend in the brig and having them put an elastic band around their controller.

  • @galactic-geek said in Vote Kick (but actually viable):

    Rewarding pirates for not participating, not being present, or after being kicked? 🤨

    Nah... 🙃

    Only rewarding them for the activities they were present for and participating in though... (and only if they were forcibly removed, not if they leave of their own accord)

    Not to mention the fact that you can just afk and be rewarded for even more that you weren't involved in - now this would be a solution to that.

    (minus the selling, but that is relatively minor)

  • @sweetsandman which is why I added the clause that you wouldn't be able to kick people while a voyage is active, or you're in the vicinity of a world event

  • @wsurftvveeds said in Vote Kick (but actually viable):

    @lem0n-curry only if the total number of people getting rewarded is less than or equal to the current ship size.

    Aka that would be equivalent to locking your first friend in the brig and having them put an elastic band around their controller.

    So this would only be "fair" to the kicked person if the crew who did the kicking didn't invite someone else in before turning in loot ? Or won't the new person get the rewards for the stuff that's getting turned in ?

    Not seeing an actual improvement here.

  • @lem0n-curry the new person wouldn't get rewarded for the loot that had been obtained while the kicked person was on the crew, but it would allow the new person to join that crew and obtain further loot (which they would then be rewarded for).

    I'm not pretending it's perfect, but I think it beats having a person sit afk in the brig for a session.

  • @wsurftvveeds said in Vote Kick (but actually viable):

    @lem0n-curry the new person wouldn't get rewarded for the loot that had been obtained while the kicked person was on the crew, but it would allow the new person to join that crew and obtain further loot (which they would then be rewarded for).

    I'm not pretending it's perfect, but I think it beats having a person sit afk in the brig for a session.

    Turn stuff in if you want the gold and rep, say goodbye to the person in the brig and start a new session.

    Not perfect, but sounds better than a way to invite a player to your crew who won't get rewards of stuff he may be defending and turning in.

  • @wsurftvveeds said in Vote Kick (but actually viable):

    @sweetsandman which is why I added the clause that you wouldn't be able to kick people while a voyage is active, or you're in the vicinity of a world event

    So if you're doing a voyage or world event, the trolls that exist today can still exist.

    Without a moderator, there's no way a kick system wouldn't be improperly used and subsequently complained about here on the forums.

  • @sweetsandman you would be able to vote cancel the voyage, or move away from the world event if you wanted to kick them.

    It would just mean that you couldn't receive the rewards say from making someone do a PL voyage with you then kicking them before getting the athena.

    Or kicking someone and having else come in and killing a shrouded with you.

  • @lem0n-curry idk, I think it's okay if that person coming in is made aware. Like they are getting a stocked up ship and a crew that's already set in to a session with emissary grade etc.

    Like there's 0 reward, so 0 risk to the new player as well. The crew could agree to just dump it all overboard if they want.

  • Scenario 1: Just sunk a ship with a massive loot haul (emi 5 flag, athena chests, a FoF... All the bells and whistles) Before you pick up loot: "Sorry dude no hard feeling but our friend John like really needs these flags hope you understand."

    Scenario 2: About to get into a very good ship fight, you spent the past 30 min looting up the island stocking your ship and everything. "Hey sorry dude but this ship we're going against seems to be a bit above your skill level and our friend Dave just came on and he is cracked at bilge and it would be a shame to lose the supplies you just helped us get, sorry."

    Scenario 3: How would this work for a FoF key or FOTD key? Could you kick the person when you have the key in hand or potentially right after you open the vault since the loot still is not claimed by you till you touch it?

    Scenario 4: "Oh Emily just came on thanks for helping us stock up this ship and get to emi 5 and all but we promised to play with her today... sorry dude no hard feelings"

    Scenario 5: Just went to fully stock up the ship, did a sea fort to get some more cannon balls and everything and someone says: "Hey dude sorry I know that we agreed to do OOS voyages with you but like Frank here kind of wants to get his gold hoarder vaults done you cool with that? No? oh not cool dude how can't you try to see in his POV he is just so close to being done! Your being selfish and immature right now"

    In short kicking people especially when you play with IRL friends will always lead to unfair voting and such will always be problematic. Loot is not the only thing with value in SoT: supplies, emi flag, and your overall surroundings (good server with good ship, quest that are not voyages in the radial, and most importantly SUPPLIES) Tyranny of the majority will always take effect especially with IRL friends and overall this system will still lead to more problems than solutions.

    PSA: just get a new ship its not that hard especially now a days. The only reason to want to keep a ship is because there is some sort of other value to that ship/server you would not get by swapping.

  • @wsurftvveeds said in Vote Kick (but actually viable):

    @lem0n-curry idk, I think it's okay if that person coming in is made aware. Like they are getting a stocked up ship and a crew that's already set in to a session with emissary grade etc.

    Like there's 0 reward, so 0 risk to the new player as well. The crew could agree to just dump it all overboard if they want.

    When I help defend the loot on the ship, I think I have rights to the value it gives when turning in, whether or not I helped doing the fort or wherever it came from. In your scenario, my efforts in helping the loot to the outpost will go unrewarded.

    What if they just empty the barrels into storage crates, sell and leave the session ? There goes the well-stocked ship (if it ever was one).

  • I think a few valid points have been made that I can't see an easy solution to.

    This idea would introduce a few more problems even though it overcomes the common objection to a kick system.

    Thanks for your time guys :)

  • Your second rule is flawed.

    Start a voyage and quickly rowboat away, they can’t cancel the voyage without me. Stay on the wheel and prevent crew from reaching destination or leaving area near world event.

    Throw me in brig, still shouldn’t be kicked for this because you meet “captains” wannabes who demand and punish :/

  • I agree there should be a vote kick

  • @burnbacon said in Vote Kick (but actually viable):

    Your second rule is flawed.

    Start a voyage and quickly rowboat away, they can’t cancel the voyage without me. Stay on the wheel and prevent crew from reaching destination or leaving area near world event.

    They just need a majority to cancel a voyage no? The same way you need a majority to brig someone (or kick them if it was added).

    Blunderbombs can get someone off a wheel very easily.

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