Hopping

@scheneighnay yes it is.

It's not an exploit

They are using a feature to their advantage. When people start telling me that Red-Seaing is ok I'll say exactly that.

@nitroxien said in Hopping:

I agree it is a problem... the whole tall tale thing is just weird and needlessly long I propose it just turns into a regular thing you can do at Reapers without the tall tale.

Glad we are on the same page :)

Yes a special tunnel into the next server would be good.

Then people will stop whining about a good feature being an exploit because they are to lazy to watch the horizon

@scheneighnay said in Hopping:

@ottyman8687
I'm never going to take the "if it exists in game it's not an exploit therefore there are no exploits" crowd seriously.

Ok..and? You haven't exactly explained why you don't like it other than:

iTs An ExPlOiT

@scheneighnay said in Hopping:

@ottyman8687 said in Hopping:

@scheneighnay said in Hopping:

@ottyman8687
I'm never going to take the "if it exists in game it's not an exploit therefore there are no exploits" crowd seriously.

Ok..and? You haven't exactly explained why you don't like it other than:

iTs An ExPlOiT

Thats it, it needs to be patched. Maybe then people who don't like reaper mechanics can push for better mechanics rather than trying to defend a broken mechanic.

Again, just saying it's an exploit doesn't justify not wanting it.

They are using a feature in a way that's not its intended purpose. I could give a 1000 other example where this exists already

Sword lunges are for sword fights. I don't hear anybody saying that they should be removed because people use them to swim faster.

People hide in the Shores of Gold. Nobody whines about that either, even though SoG is a Tall Tale and not a PvP item

@scheneighnay said in Hopping:

@ottyman8687
super-lunges are also an exploit, and SoG needs to be more limited. Not really helping your case.

I still don't see what your 'case' is.

You still haven't said why you don't like Portal Hopping. Super lunges are beneficial, yet they are an exploit.

Portal hopping is also beneficial and also an exploit.

Exploits are not bad. They are bugs which creep in and add features the Devs might not have thought of otherwise.

@scheneighnay Except its not a blatant exploit, the developers knowingly put portal hoping in the game, its wasn't the primary function of the portals but it was a considered one.
Blatant exploits would be the old double gun quick switch, or fast bucketing.

@pumpkin0ui There are also commendations, and those emissary flags are worth quite a bit of rep.

@scurvywoof said in Hopping:

@scheneighnay To clarify, it is not an exploit.
“Following launch, we have been closely monitoring how players have been using the Tunnels of the Damned in ways outside of their primary function such as to seek out a new emergent event, to find new foes to challenge or simply to refresh their server experience.

We want to clarify that for now, we consider all the scenarios mentioned above as legitimate uses of the Tunnels of the Damned. However, we recognise that there are many differing opinions on this topic, and we will continue to monitor both your feedback and how players are using this feature.”

It is an exploit, albeit one that has been allowed. Anything that doesn't serve the function or purpose of an object is considered an exploit. For example, the purpose of a knife, is to cut, but you can use it in other ways such as to remove or place a screw, open basic locked doors, extend one's reach, etc... these other ways are considered exploits. In this case the purpose of the tunnel of the damned is to transport the player crew from the server to the pirate life instance. If a player uses the tunnel of the damned any other way it is considered an exploit.

The same can be said about the sword lunge, it's normal action mechanic but doing the sword lunge exploit mechanic, super-vents the rigid Lock down function of it, allowing players to walk faster while charging, allows jumping, and allows one to lunge farther (especially in water). The difference between sword lung exploit and the portal hopping exploit, is that sword lunging is majority not as a debatable topic. Most players can figure it out quickly and the benefits it has, provide a better experience overall. Honestly if it was up to me I would have just merged it as part of the regular sword lunge mechanic by now.

@red0demon0
That's a stretch and a half there mate. If the use of the portals to "refresh sever experience" was foreseen and implemented, then its not an exploit, its intended gameplay design. Portal hoping is a feature.

@scarecrow1771 said in Hopping:

@red0demon0
That's a stretch and a half there mate. If the use of the portals to "refresh sever experience" was foreseen and implemented, then its not an exploit, its intended gameplay design. Portal hoping is a feature.

You are missing the point though. It doesn't matter if it is foreseen or not. just because it is foreseen doesn't make thing non exploitable. You can try to find an excuse for it but it is an exploit. It wasn't foreseen and implemented, it was implemented and accepted regardless of what was foreseen. What was foreseen? that the mechanic could be exploitable by the player base. look it up, by definition it is an exploit. The intended gameplay design is clear, it was to transport players into the pirate life instance. How is it activated? Through a tall tale, what is the purpose of the tall tales? To portal hop? This isn't a half truce, opinion, or a maybe, it is the intended purpose of it. Anything else that doesn't serve this purpose is an exploit, you can debate if you agree or disagree to use it, which is what you, the devs, and other players are doing, but it doesn't change the fact that it's an exploit. We can't look at mud and call it chocolate.

@red0demon0
Sorry mate, you are talking cobblers ,exploits are unintended and unforeseen and quite often unwanted. Portal hoping is none of these things.

@scarecrow1771 said in Hopping:

@red0demon0
Sorry mate, exploits are unintended and unforeseen and quite often unwanted. Portal hoping is none of these things.

If it wasn't an exploit then there would be no need to start a tall tale first, then go through the portal, then manually jump back out. At this point one is just jumping through hoops, and not seeing it for what it is is just scavenging for excuses to make this into an intended gameplay mechanic when it's anything but. The error here is that it is assumed that the exploit itself was intended at the moment of creation of the idea. The way you assume this others may assume, that they foresaw this after the fact, such as "Wait a minute, maybe players might be able to use this to hop between servers" which they then discussed, accepted, and implemented. It is still foreseen in this circumstance, yet it does not change the fact it is an accepted exploit by the devs.

In addition, there is proof of the intended meaning of the tunnels of the damned, including how they are activated and result thereof. There is no proof to the claim that the portal of the damned function is to portal hop. Only speculation, interpretations, and acceptance.

Finally, portal hopping is not always wanted. In fact it has become one of the most debated topics here and many other websites. Something being debatable means that the argument for the side that states it is "unwanted" is significant enough to warrant arguments or discussions, and considering this is a large and extremely debatable topic shows how intense and large people are opposed to the idea (And vice versa).

@red0demon0
I'm just gona leave it at this.
If a developer adds a function to a game, and knows how that function will be used, and even says they know a function will be used and how its going to be used.
It is a feature.
You not liking something does not an exploit make, it really is that simple.

@scarecrow1771 said in Hopping:

@red0demon0
I'm just gona leave it at this.
If a developer adds a function to a game, and knows how that function will be used, and even says they know a function will be used and how its going to be used.
It is a feature.
You not liking something does not an exploit make, it really is that simple.

They knew how exploit would be used, yet did not know exactly the consequence of it being used. Which is why they were going to monitor it. The fact that they were willing to monitor/ experiment with player reactions expresses uncertainty. Agree to disagree, but the real function and purpose is there and clear as day.

I don't like a couple of things in the game such as the fact that there is only 4 weapon types, or the fact that one can only use 2 at a time, yet these are obvious intended features. Again, you are misunderstanding that my feelings, likes, or dislikes shapes my argument. Just as you erroneously made the assumption that I dislike the exploit. Liking it or not, is not the point, agreed, yet in your previous statement "exploits . . . quite often unwanted. Portal hopping is none of these things" expresses some semblance that exploits are often based, to some extent, on desirability which contradicts with "You not liking something does not an exploit make, . . .". Seems the argument for an exploit is not as simple as you had stated

@red0demon0 You can waffle and qualify and try to nit pick all you want.
Rare knew they added portal hoping to the game, they openly said so, they have not changed it, nor made it sanctionable nor attempted to remove it.
Ergo-feature.
This is not something you can wiggle around, or negotiate. to try to do so is like calling the sky red, or the world flat

@scarecrow1771 said in Hopping:

@red0demon0 You can waffle and qualify and try to nit pick all you want.
Rare knew they added portal hoping to the game, they openly said so, they have not changed it, nor made it sanctionable nor attempted to remove it.
Ergo-feature.

Well I already explained my counter argument to this, one is unable to know when they actually found out that adding the tunnels of the damned would lead to such an exploit. One may only imply different possibilities of when it was actually foreseen. They openly said so after the fact, such as after the fact that the update had already released, and players were already arguing about it. Regardless of how they felt.

This is not something you can wiggle around, or negotiate. to try to do so is like calling the sky red, or the world flat

Yet here we all are in one of many topics arguing the point of portal hopping and if it may or may not be labeled an exploit. Your argument about what I can or can't do is illogical and invalid in this respect.

We have two different points of views, and you provide a good interpretation on the matter at times, which I certainly understand and respect. But that does not mean the point can't be argued nor that it's as simple as you had stated before. It's not nit picking and certainly not wiggling around the truth either, I have faced you with my points and supporting evidence bluntly and transparently, unlike the transparency in the function of portal hopping, which I truly believe is elusive and even a bit mischievous, as no actual gameplay device explains or teaches a player to use said device as a form to hop servers (Unless said player search it up online or learn it from another player)

Regardless, we should just agree to disagree? since we might just end up repeating counter arguments to each other in an endless loop? If so, I thank you for the discussion, it was sincerely delightful.

@red0demon0 Again brother....
You can write pages of tripe. You still aren't changing the facts here, Rare knowingly added portal hoping, thus Portal hoping = Feature.

This isn't a agree to disagree moment, you are talking absolute rubbish is all.

@scarecrow1771 said in Hopping:

@red0demon0 Again brother....
You can write pages of tripe. You still aren't changing the facts here, Rare knowingly added portal hoping, thus Portal hoping = Feature.

This isn't a agree to disagree moment, you are talking absolute rubbish.

I only offered becaus we aren't getting anywhere, your arguments fail to respond to my counterarguments adequately. If you must attack, then attack my statements with actual logical descriptions. Calling something "rubbish" doesn't add much in respect to the topic does it?. If you have any form of supporting evidence as to why it is a "feature" (Other than Rare devs said so) or wish to counter argue my own counter arguments, by all means do so. Instead, I will just counter argue by telling you to re-read all of my previous points on implied foreseen circumstances for every time you state that Rare devs said so. Which only solidifies my reasoning that we will just be stuck in an endless loop especially since you are unwilling to compromise. It's not like I'm the only person here expressing the same argument, read all the previous posts. Regardless of what you think of it, at this point you are telling a significant portion of people here that they are wrong and you are right, it's absolute, which is plain wrong. If it can be argued then it's not absolute.

@red0demon0 Like I said, you can write pages, stamp your feet and point to others.
The facts are these.
An exploit is unforeseen and unintended, and usually unwanted
Rare has open said that they intended for people to be able to move between servers with the Portals, they knew that people would use the portals for that out side of tall tales, they openly said they were ok with that and they added it to the game. Not to mention that people have been begging for this functionality for years. Portal hoping = Feature. there is no other interpretation
You can point to other people that are as wrong as you all you like.
You are still wrong.

@scarecrow1771 said in Hopping:

@red0demon0 Like I said, you can write pages, stamp your feet and point to others.
The facts are these.
An exploit is unforeseen and unintended, and usually unwanted
Rare has open said that they intended for people to be able to move between servers with the Portals, they knew that people would use the portals for that out side of tall tales, they openly said they were ok with that and they added it to the game. Not to mention that people have been begging for this functionality for years. Portal hoping = Feature. there is no other interpretation
You can point to other people that are as wrong as you all you like.
You are still wrong.

Please reread my previous counter argument on implied unforeseen circumstances. People have also been arguing against the functionality for years, portal hopping is debatable, has been, and always will be regardless of your opinion.

From Rare
"While the primary function of the Tunnels is to seamlessly transition players into these new story focused locations, we foresaw that the Tunnels could be used by players to take some control over their server experience by purposefully triggering a server migration."

Main purpose is not to server hop, they foresaw it as an added addition by the players. Note how it's something that they themselves did not add to the game, it's something they could see the players doing. They could see the players taking advantage of the feature. AKA a potential exploit

"We want to clarify that for now, we consider all the scenarios mentioned above as legitimate uses of the Tunnels of the Damned. However, we recognise that there are many differing opinions on this topic, and we will continue to monitor both your feedback and how players are using this feature."

Elements of insecurity about the exploit, as well as the uncertainty in keeping it. This shows uncertainty if it would be significantly malicious to warrant a change.

They go on to explain how the tunnel of the damned as a feature will continue to be monitored. This part is important for 2 reasons. 1. The feature is something they added to the game, something they control, which is the tunnel of the damned, where as the exploit of using them to server hop is something in the hands of the players, not something as direct result of the pirate life tall tale, a 2ndary effect taken advantage of by players. 2. Devs are no all omnipotent and correct. The fact that they might accept the exploit does not remove form the fact that it is an exploit none the less unless they directly add it to the game as an actual feature (For ex: An actual portal, gate, or object that asks you or you activate if you wish to join a different server). By definition and logic, portal hopping in it's current form, may be considered an exploit and is debatable, regardless of how you feel about it, I'm done with this goodbye

@red0demon0 Just stop brother, you are essentially trying to tell people the world is flat. [mod edit]

You can't change facts to suit you, doesn't matter how many essays you want to write.
Good luck.