@xultanis-dragon said in Remove or drastically change "Double Gun" strategy:
Thats fine, you are more than welcome to disagree but it doesn't make what I said any less true.
It’s not true though. That’s your point of view on the matter and I simply know that people will leave because I know alot of the ones who would if Rare was to force certain play styles upon everyone.
@xultanis-dragon What is your current play style a that you think requires sword.? .
If double gunning is so easy why are so many people complaining ? If you see somebody DGing than grab second weapon and show them your skills. Whats the problem ?
I mean honestly, every game there is somebody crying about DG, and calling you sweaty pirate. We laugh at them and send them all to Ferry of the Damned.
And yes blunder is trash when you TDM so you are not allowed to use it, and mostly in arena although sometimes people need accommodations , that's what you heard.
Think about Double Gunning, sweaty PVP pirates as Rare's imperial guard against chest farmers. Our job is to make sure you don't get millions and millions of gold in couple hours, and instead have to spend days to earn your things so you keep playing game and buying things from Emporium.
I mean you haven't figure out that yet with all the updates asking for all those emissary flags and Reaper events ?
@xultanis-dragon wait how is quick scope op. If ur quick scoping 99% of the time you look for the player before you scope, zero in on where they are and then scope in for less than a second, by then they could’ve moved and u don’t know it because you can’t see. The size of the scope makes this very balanced.
@xultanis-dragon I dont know where you are getting all those ideas, Since I don't use sprint cancel (because it does not work) I don't care if Rare removes something that does not exist.
Quick scope, what is that? all the weapons require the same amount of time to scope. Nobody is using exploits its all in your head.
So if that makes you feel better sure let them remove it. It changes nothing for me.
Yeah I think you getting spawn camped and that's why you complaining about DG.
And yes I am thinking Rare is tired of complainers like you, that's why they gave us ability to buy cannonball crates and wood crates so we are ready for battle as soon as we server hop. Y'all keep complaining they may give us ability to buy 2 cannonball crates. Thats why they made Reaper event.
Lol I don't sink often, and when I do is because I made mistake so I dont trash talk to other players. When I get sunk is mostly my fault. So I adjust for next time. To give you a glimpse, we sunk 16 ships yesterday, 7 emissary flags collected, probably close to 1 mln in gold, we sunk once. Why did we sink ,as we were sailing towards enemy ships we had important conversation about which scars look better with what tattoos. Renown 100 scars seem to be covering many tattoos I like, so we had argument that was getting settled with blunder bombs, and that's how we got keg-ed.
However, I do love spawn camping trash talkers complaining about sweaty pirates.
@xultanis-dragon This is getting ridiculous at this point. How did we go from "double gun is overpowered because it's not the combo I use and people that are better than me are able to kill me with it" to "quick scoping and every other thing people use that's in the game to their advantage is an exploit and that it should be removed.
I'll bet you almost every single double gunner / known TDMer will not have a huge issue with sprint cancel being removed, because sprint cancel literally does nothing except visually skip the taking out animation so that you can ADS faster. You can double gun just as fast without sprint cancelling. Take a look below if you don't believe me.
The first two shots were with sprint cancel, and the second two were without sprint cancel. Notice how they have extremely similar spacing in-between shots, if not the same. This is because there's still a 2 or so second stun where you can't shoot that replaces the taking out animation now that you've visually skipped it.
@illbushido305 said in Remove or drastically change "Double Gun" strategy:
@thathappyhat that happy bat doesn’t seem so happy anymore
... hat*
@thathappyhat Ha ha I think you are spot on, little harsh but spot on.
All those people complaining constantly have one thing in common, they refuse to look at their own approach and want world to change for them. Make it easy. Now new players complaining about being attacked by double gunning pros I can understand, Day 1 players complaining that's just being lazy.
I think he is just getting spawn camped and his pride is getting to him.
@xultanis-dragon I get where you're coming from, but just know that I used to be one of those players, until I started getting better. I was new, and I got a bad start. I decided to continue despite being dissed on by other players. I held to the community code of conduct and the Pirate Code and ended up having a better time with the game as a whole.
What I do is give each player the benefit of the doubt before I go all out on them. Made a handful of friends/crewmates already. There's a ton of new players because the game recently went on sale and the new season started. I've given countless advice to those players in hopes of seeing them again at a higher skill level later on.
If I'm a Reaper, I mark it to get more players to face me. I focus on Emissaries because those flags are the lifeblood of the faction. Most importantly, I do it to give the other players a chance to run away or properly defend. I pick my battles, going after the more lucrative ships who are worth my time.
Say what you want about me, but in my opinion, those who sink every player ship in their sights are try-hards that just couldn't cut it in Arena. Why ruin a new player's experience otherwise?
it's funny how Rare doesn't seem keen on just forcing everyone to have a sword because "it wouldn't let people play how they want" but the thing I always hear from double gun defenders is "if it's so strong why don't you use it" or "just stop using the sword"
But I don't want to? I'm not going to drop my playstyle just because double gunning is the meta, and Rare doesn't seem too keen on changing it.
sword isn't even unviable, but it certainly feels like a handicap in most PvP encounters, especially with the meta being so heavily focused around tucking and two-taps.
all of the sword's balance changes are based on trying to catch it up to double gunning damage output being able to 100 to 0 a player in seconds. if they force sword into a slot they could even nerf the stun and damage from sword again and it would still compliment any gun.
most of the time me and my crew deal with double gunners just fine, but it's kind of obnoxious how every time we do have trouble it's the same story of being double gunned or one-shot blundered by a group of tryhards in the tucking uniform.
Then don't drop the sword. Get better at it. Try holding block and jumping to dodge quick. Gun users don't get that.
@superpopato Neither side is overpowered. Sword is not overpowered because blocking is garbage and doesn't work half the time, and double gun is not overpowered because of reload times, the inability to block, etc. If you don't want to stop using sword, that's absolutely fine. Totally understand that. Just don't completely diss double gun because it's not the combo that you use and that people are better than you with it. If you're having a problem killing other pirates, double gun or not, there's a problem with your playstyle / pvp style that you need to change to get better.
@superpopato said in Remove or drastically change "Double Gun" strategy:
it's funny how Rare doesn't seem keen on just forcing everyone to have a sword because "it wouldn't let people play how they want" but the thing I always hear from double gun defenders is "if it's so strong why don't you use it" or "just stop using the sword"
But I don't want to? I'm not going to drop my playstyle just because double gunning is the meta, and Rare doesn't seem too keen on changing it.
sword isn't even unviable, but it certainly feels like a handicap in most PvP encounters, especially with the meta being so heavily focused around tucking and two-taps.all of the sword's balance changes are based on trying to catch it up to double gunning damage output being able to 100 to 0 a player in seconds. if they force sword into a slot they could even nerf the stun and damage from sword again and it would still compliment any gun.
most of the time me and my crew deal with double gunners just fine, but it's kind of obnoxious how every time we do have trouble it's the same story of being double gunned or one-shot blundered by a group of tryhards in the tucking uniform.
If sword feels like handicap than you are using wrong tool for the job. its like using spoon to dig trench.
#1 skill in PVP is to recognize what combo you need and when.
There is no one size fits all. If you watch us fighting you would see we constantly change combos. Depending on situation we swap weapons. Sometimes its sniper/pistol, (jumping in water, jumping on island to prevent people from selling or lowering flags, hunting for keg swimmers)
Sometimes pistol/blunder (close quarters fights in ships because you don't need scope for either so almost instant death, blunder to fire at the feet of keg carriers to push them off)
Sometimes sniper/sword when you want people stunt and not get to anchor when you chasing the ship.
Each combo has own purpose and just like choosing ship is important, or what food you carry its what experienced players do.
This game requires logic more than any other game and that is what makes this game awesome. There is no "spray and pray" here with exception to sword. PVP is constant battle of experience, and Double Gunning is part of that.
Experience and logic counts more than anything. I watch my younger friends play and even so two of them some of the best TDM players out there they do get their rear ends kicked, simply because they constantly relay on brute force and lack of experience in battle is what gets them screwed more than once.
I'm going to abandon this thread at this point because the discussion is not going anywhere. Both points have been made and I don't feel like having to repeat myself every single time a new reply pops up completely ignoring the past 80 or so posts that have been made here.
In short: Double gun is not OP. Sword is not OP. No combo in this game is OP. It's your response to it that's getting you killed. Just because someone is better than you doesn't mean that the combo they're using is "overpowered".
Then don't drop the sword. Get better at it. Try holding block and jumping to dodge quick. Gun users don't get that.
it's not really an issue of needing to get better at the sword. it's braindead easy to use now, and that wasn't always the case.
Neither side is overpowered.
this is true. they both have downsides, but mostly because of bad servers and hitreg.
Just don't completely diss double gun because it's not the combo that you use and that people are better than you with it.
I'm not completely dissing double guns. I'm just pointing out that it's the go-to loadout for tryhards because it's so effective at the most obnoxious playstyle.
Really though, we're out here fighting about which one is better when we should really be fighting about why they're both so bad.
Sea of Thieves is a unique game that encourages strategy and awareness, but almost every encounter boils down to being on a ship and hoping the horrible hitreg plays nice in your favor.
Naval combat is really good, and it's almost embarrassing that it gets overshadowed by the incredibly basic pirate versus pirate combat that has hardly any depth and barely even works half the time.
I agreee with @superpopato
Right now the only weapon issue that needs solving is hit-reg. All the weapons are fine and well balanced for the tasks they are designed for. And I think Rare developers did excellent job on balancing weapons. There may be few tweaks I would like to see (like putting faint cross hair when you have weapon or a bucket or wood plank in hand), but otherwise they all good. I hate bucketing in sloop and pulling water from barrel instead of the sloop itself.
This game is more about strategy and planning. Knowing what weapons to use and when, knowing each ship capability, and knowing what each island offers are all part of this.
I mean Rare developers put a lot of effort into the skill portion of this game and you can see that. Growing into Pirate Legend supposed to be learning all that.
I have played this game for almost 2 years now, mostly PvP for the better part of that time. Many people posting here are talking about double gun weaknesses and how to exploit them, even providing reload times and other details, and while correct in theory, in practice, this simply isn't so. The double-gun strategy is broken and overpowered. However it is not just about double guns, but more about balance with damage, timers, and movement in combat.
The first huge issue here is the fact that most double gunners use a combination of blunderbuss and eye of reach. The main problem here is that both weapons can one-shot an enemy. The slightly longer reload time on each of them doesn't matter much if they can kill you twice over with the amount of damage that they do. Furthermore, the "sprint" glitch allows you to instantly decimate your opponent without them ever having a chance to even react. On an off chance that you survive both shots, thanks to the knockback of the blunderbuss, you will likely be either in the water or in a terrible position and unable to defend. Even if you are not, thanks to the way movement work in this game, the dude will just keep jumping around the ship until he reloads and eats, then rinse and repeat. The bottom line is, if the double gunner knows what he is doing, he can instakill two people, now imagine coming across a galleon with 4 such dudes.
The point is that the weapons are now extremely unbalanced.
The double firing glitch needs to be removed like the XX glitch was. And the damage/reload times/ gimmicks need to be given a tweak.
If you have knockback on the blunder, make it so that it can kill you only at extremely close range. I have had situations where people would blunder me from 8-9 feet away with a single shot. Either reduce its damage or reduce its effective range.
The eye of reach has extreme accuracy, quick-firing rate, and huge damage output, and the 3 seconds it takes to reload is simply not enough to offset that. Either increase the reload time it, or find an effective way to balance the weapon. From the top of my head, make it less accurate so you have to ads for longer or something. I know it's not an ideal solution, but for crying out loud, it is supposed to be a long-range weapon, not something that a dude can carry in face-to-face combat.
IMO, the flintlock is the only balanced weapon in the game. It has an average of everything. Range, damage, and reload time.
The sword is up for debate, while the damage it does is high, having to get close to your enemy is a challenge, and the knockback after 3 slashes allows some room for countering. Again not ideally balanced, but there is definitely some pros/cons here.
@galactic-geek maybe the eating aspect. But your health doesn't go up straight away so when they reload and shoot you again you may have eaten but your health doesn't go up and even then the damage is quicker than the health regeneration.
I'm glad that some can enjoy the game while sinking because you've already earned what you care for.
Most players are still trying to get something from the game or to work on difficult-to-earn commendations. Granted, I don't try to win everything all at once, and experience the game over a length of time rather than an immediate 5000 hours like some streamers like to do for CASH, because that's their job... (I'm a completionist gamer, so I try not to waste my time by losing everything I worked for hours for at the end of my work-day. And yes, I fight as the game intends or run as the game's mechanics allow. Depends on the day and what I'm hauling.)
There are many of us who are tired of the sweats, the double-gunners, the tuccers, the "hard-core" that play this game to sink a ship and not even care for the loot. Many who utilize this style, a style which plays out too quickly. - Double-gunning lends to the instant-kill factor, which makes the above bullet points show most prominently and immediately. And yes, experienced players know better how to fight against such, but some of you are lying to yourselves when you don't mention how depressed or angry you get when you get one-shot blunderbussed. - Especially by players who you know aren't quite as good as you when fighting a naval battle, they just happen to stick their bump-sticks up your rear end first.
The argument made that "just let them play the game the way they want" is a mute point. (In reference to the persons who don't want to be forced to play with the sword.) If I wanted to play the way I wanted, then it wouldn't be a game. It'd be a simulation of a reality I wanted. Microsoft Lens. Augmented Reality on a ship. That's why this is a game, because there are other people to interact with and play with. A thing to experience together from which Rare has made. We hope to have balanced interactions, but a one-two second engagement ends so distastefully and unsatisfyingly with Double-Guns. That is unbalanced. There needs to be a change, yes, but maybe not the change we're considering immediately. Brainstorm. Think critically please.
Mainly, consider how it feels to a player who isn't you, who isn't "hard-core" and wants to play a pirate-dress-up game and fight some skeletons. Especially when they want to relax with some friends at the end of a hard day of work, of school, of play with other kids (for kids), of trials and hardships. Some will refute this, disagree, etc. But, you know, at the end of the day, you're not any better than someone else, and we can do away with the imbalances that the game has without sacrificing the fun it provides.
I have played this game for almost 2 years now, mostly PvP... most double gunners use a combination of blunderbuss and eye of reach. The main problem here is that both weapons can one-shot an enemy. The slightly longer reload time on each of them doesn't matter much if they can kill you twice over with the amount of damage that they do. Furthermore, the "sprint" glitch allows you to instantly decimate your opponent without them ever having a chance to even react.
@nidzan2820 Please refer to my post above where I disproved the "sprint cancel exploit". There is no such thing as sprint cancelling the delay anymore because even if you visually cancel the animation you still have a 2-3 second stun in place of the taking out animation. I also posted a clip showing this.
I'm not sure where you're coming from with "sniper can one-shot an enemy". Since when..? Last time I checked it took way about 75%. Additionally, if you're being one-blundered from that far away, you probably have very high ping which at that point is not anyone's problem but yours. You have to be pretty close to someone in order to one-blunder.
I will also have to disagree with you on sword being up for debate. You cannot say that double gunning is overpowered while sword slices literally cancel any action, including, but not limited to: sprinting, aiming, and using an item on the ship, like a cannon or barrel. You can chase somebody spamming m1 with the sword range being longer than the blade itself to the point where they cannot sprint away from you and have to rely on blocking, which is and probably will continue be extremely unreliable.
You say pistol is the only balanced weapon in the game, what prevents me from using pistol blunder if sniper was nerfed at some point to your desires? Anyone can still two tap you almost just as easily with pistol blunder, even if it's not very ideal.
@nidzan2820 God bro please read the thread. For one thing, what? Snipers can't one shot? And also, we had someone post a video as proof, sprint cancelling doesn't make you able to shoot faster, only ADS faster. For quick scopers and no scopers, it's useless. Double gunning is not overpowered, and if you've played for 2 years and think that it is, it means you're just not as good at the game as them. Also, remember that double gunning requires you to reload. So if, like you said, you survive both shots and they don't have any blunderbombs or firebombs, eat food! If you don't have food, you're underprepared and that doesn't mean that they are overpowered. If a double gunner knows what he's doing, he can kill one person very fast, and then need to reload at least one gun before damaging another opponent. The weapons are indeed unbalanced, and I as a sword main know that it is in part due to the fact that the sword has extra range. I cannot think of a single instance where one double gunner killed me in less than a second because of a quick switch. It simply isn't possible, or maybe it's because I actually try to dodge it. And a lot of the time I succeed. If you're going up against a double gunner, literally just dodge until they have no shots and then guard the ammo chest.
Also, double firing is not a glitch. If so the devs would probably have done at least something about it.
You also fail to realize that hit registration continues to impede double gunners, and while it does fail sometimes with sword, the sword doesn't need ammo and so one missed slice doesn't usually matter.
Also, making you ADS for longer wouldn't make any sense! If people have good aim and are able to do it fast, that means that they (unlike some people here obviously) have skill! And because they have that skill, they deserve to be able to keep doing it.
I know it can be frustrating to die to a double gunner (typically because they're good at the game, though I have come across some people who double gun and aren't very good at it... goes to show that it's not OP!), but it is equally frustrating for a double gunner to die to someone chasing them around swinging their sword like a mad man. But it happens! And that's because you cannot instantly kill everyone you see when you double gun.
I am a sword main, and I believe that double gunning is not OP. Neither is sword. NOTHING IN THIS GAME is OP. If you want to blame someone, blame the people who are actually GOOD at the GAME! That's the only reason you're always dying.
@thathappyhat Well actually, snipers can one shot but it is like really rare, and I think they aren't suppose too, more of a hit reg sorta glitch but it has happened to me a couple of times.
Come on. One would think that people who have had the game since launch would know that nothing is OP. If you believe that anything other than what you're using in this game is overpowered, chances are it's because you die to it a lot. Obviously, these people refuse to try it because it would prove them wrong. If you guys die a lot to a specific combo, it means that you don't know how to deal with that specific combo! Practice against that combo, even better: try to use that combo so you can identify its strengths and weaknesses. Then exploit those weaknesses and be careful of the strengths when you're going up against someone using that combo.
@rockaceyt Yeah, so rare, probably... that it never happens.
A lot of people don't pay attention to their health, or get teamshot by snipers and complain that "they got 1 shot."
Only three things in this game can instantly kill you: 1) close range (or backtracked) blunderbuss shot, 2) cannon shot, 3) keg to the face.
