Possible Solution to Map Expansion Issue?

  • So, I think I posted this in the incorrect forum last time. Hopefully this is the correct place to post this.

    So, I may have a possible solution to expanding the map and adding new areas to explore. That solution is the Sea of the Damned! I know that expanding the current map is not possible due to server stability issues and the number of ships. However, with adding the sea of the damned that shouldn't be an issue, and I'll explain why. It wouldn't be fitting to have the sea of the damned built into the current map because it just wouldn't be a smooth transition to go from the ancient isles to suddenly you are in the sea of the damned. So, my solution to this is you essential leave the main map as is and the sea of the damned is its own separate server that is only accessible through a portal of sorts somewhere inside the main map. My suggestion for a portal would be the PL hideout. You could convert the ship near the shipwright into a functional vessel that carry's you through the portal on the other side of one of the waterfalls. Once through the portal it would essentially merge you into a new server for the sea of the damned. This would in turn give us a new location to explore and hopefully mitigate the server stability issues. I would love to know what everyone's thought are on this.

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  • Server stability issues would still be a thing, because now you're creating an entire new map from the ground up, with brand-new islands, enemies, and a whole system to merge pirates from "normal" servers onto "Damned" servers and vice-versa.

  • Just because you go trough a portal doesn't mean you merge into a different server. Just like with the PL hideout (the PL hideout exists on the same server as the map itself, just like the fairy - not a new server), the maps would have to co-exist on the same server, which would overload it even more.

    If you'd make it so you actually merge into a new server there'd have to be a direct connection between the two, since coming back to the current map should merge you back into the previous server which like the other commenter said, would overload the server even more. Imagine someone going in and out with the whole ship having to load - the lag spikes and frame drops would be insane. The loot would also have to transfer on the ship, the server would have to make sure noone is in the place you'd spawn etc.

  • To my knowledge it doesn't necessarily have to be a direct connection between the 2 server. My thought process would suggest that it would work the same way as it does when you load into the game or get merged into a new server during gameplay. When traveling between the 2 worlds the algorithm would look for server that has free space and then drop you into that server. I don't know though. It was just a thought I had. It may or may not work

  • Having them move to a different server when switching areas is just introducing a form of creating server hops with full supplies. All you'd need to do is transition to the new area and then come back, check that server for activity and then go through the transition again and again until you find a FOTD or whatever while maintaining full ship supplies the entire time.

    If the original server you came from is holding your space to prevent you from using the transition as a hop to a new server, you're just killing the regular server by having less ships on it.

    I think when Rare said they didn't want to expand the map, they meant that they weren't going to increase the total surface area (resulting in the grid system adjusting again). There is still unused space in the southern part of the map which they could use for one-off adventures or voyages similar to the Shores of Gold. Players would go there to do a thing and come back, so the ship density would only be affected momentarily which shouldn't impact the player encounter rate all that much, and ships out there would still be visible from the Ancient Isles region.

  • I don't think you'd need it to be a random server hop but a dedicated server for each so two servers for the two maps as a child on a parent server much like world and instance servers on other mmorpgs. It's not like they would hop or server swap each time they transitioned.

  • I think this idea is underappreciated honestly. I'm not an expert to comment on how feasible it is, but I don't think anyone in this forum is.

    Instancing content has been around since video games were first created, showing up most memorably as long windy hallways between bigger rooms in a lot of PS1 single player games so that assets had time to load in, and of course, frequent load screens.

    So I think those leveling criticisms that server stability would still be an issue aren't giving credit to the main advantage, which is this is a proven method that works in terms of mitigating hardware demand, which let's be honest is the real bottleneck for the older xbox console.

    Yes, servers are pretty poor, so people have a right to be hesitant, but there is no alternative while maintaining the current open world structure of the game. If new map area is really a culprit, people should be more upset that the shores of gold wasn't instanced.

    Instancing might not be perfect, it could create issues, but so does every ambitious idea. You don't claim it to be perfect, but the idea is solid honestly.

    Besides, who says the new instanced regions need to be large map areas or even connected to the main adventure mode? They could very easily be small "dungeons," in which loot can't be moved between (to keep things simple). Your point is that the game needs to go in a different direction to add new map & content, and instancing is the likely solution. Whether Rare would do it is another thing, but the alternative is no new "real" areas to explore.

  • @calicorsaircat Map space is not an issue, it's player encounter rate. Rare's target encounter rate can't be maintained over larger space without increasing the number of ships per server. They shouldn't have a problem creating a map much larger than the current one, since models and textures for islands are streamed in on demand and not always loaded in memory. There are lots of games that run on the XBox that have much larger or more detailed worlds, because they use the same streaming technology to keep the memory footprint as low as possible.

    This is why Shores of Gold is not an issue; it's for a very specific purpose and then players come back to the main areas.

    Instancing becomes an issue for player encounter rates because it removes players from the main game world, and it either introduces new issues with creating a method of server hopping or it creates a lot more 'dead' servers that are holding spots for ships that are loaded into an instance. If new spaces or instances work similar to Shores of Gold, where players go there for a singular purpose and come back, I don't think there will be any problem but we aren't going to see things like the Devil's Roar (ie. full map expansions with outpost, voyages, etc..)

  • @d3adst1ck

    Image for a moment that the fort of the damned was HUGE, like shores of gold huge.

    But, it is instanced content with a load screen that looks the same from the outside (you sail through the fog), load in, and idk a symbol pops up over the fort to indicate that someone is there.

    That last part is really important because without an indication that a ship is there, you would be right that the server would go "dead" from ships not being able to find one another.

    Now if you were going to ignore the ships who are instanced anyway, the ship density on the server is still the same, even if they are actually now an additional 5 minutes of sailing time away from you. It's like sailing past a ship that is doing the fort now. Sure, the difference is they can't see you but you can see them, but that's not all that different to one ship running reapers.

    If you were going to attack them, you would choose to load in and spawn on that "instanced" map out in the distance and would sail toward the island at them so that they still have time to react.

    If the technicalities can be worked out which are very valid (how to handle loot etc.), this is a superior way to create new more detailed islands without bogging down the main game for old hardware.
    Personally, I don't think the game should have any more larger regions for the reason you mentioned, but instancing is still a valid way to budget for more detailed and better content in general.

    Ghost fleets are a perfect example. They are fun and well done already, but if you think about it, it is no coincidence they are "ghosts" with no collision because of lag on xbox one. Frames already drop if a lot of ships with collision are near each other at one time.
    Could you get away with more ships with collision if the fleet was instanced, or accomplish better visuals / more game mechanics? Maybe. Certainly a better chance than having it on the main map.

  • I think u should add a private sea option so u can do battles with you friends with no interpretation.

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