Balance the Boarding Tactic

  • Jdge439
    Captain
    Insider

    By simply turning Friendly Fire Cannonshots KNOCK BACK on. Not FF damage, KNOCK BACK

    Listen, Boarders are a pain in the Rare( See what I did there?). I have no real problem with the tactic though other than one thing I encountered the other night.

    They were maintaining Consistent cannon fire with two guys firing onto our main deck. Two guys boarded. Now, these two guys are running around the main deck with the most incredible Flak shield every implemented since Battlestar Galactica was on TV.

    They can stay on our deck, spawn kill us or lock us downstairs and wait for us to run up.

    Yes yes, Scuttle and what not. Thats not the point.

    The point is, they are like gods roaming around in a hail of Cannonfire blowing us every which way while we try to fight them, but they walk through it like its nothing.
    This is supposed to be used as a joke among these forums but its exactly what they are doing.

    This would balance this, especially on Sloops.
    They would need to hold fire and actually have boarders or rish shooting them off the side of our boat. Also, they can stand and guard holes while a cannon ball explodes behind them and stand there like gods.

    This will also bring along with it dueling and sparring on your ships during voyages to practice if it's full blown ff. This would also be a welcome change.

    This is, in my opinion, a good idea trhat needs steam.

    Thoughts?

    Keep the idea rolling.

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  • Duke of Spire
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    I don't know if anyone remembers this but there was one week early on that friendly cannon fire was turned on! It was the best week ever in my books! As a crew we had to negotiate our shots with our boarders so they didn't take damage. Also "Dodge the cannonballs" on a beach at the end of the night was great and awesome for crew morale!

  • Jdge439
    Captain
    Insider

    Id take damage to for the realism, but I get the feeling there'd be an eruption of people with their Feelers out

  • xIx ZeNo xIx
    Master
    Insider

    I think it would make sense to have knock back included with that, but I honestly thought that already happens. I may be wrong but I swear I remember getting knocked back by friendly cannon fire in the early days. 😕

  • Jdge439
    Captain
    Insider

    @xix-zeno-xix Not anymore, Its off, I tested it.

  • HobbyGG4017
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    When you pay attention, you shouldnt get boarded. Just 1 shot them with blunderbuss on their way up the ladder or knock them off. Getting boarded is 100% your mistake. Getting killed over and over just displays your lack of skill in that situation.

    I really wish people would use the mechanics to their disposal instead of starting a useless discussion on the forums.

  • Jdge439
    Captain
    Insider

    @dennis-box Its not useless. The Devs actually do listen around here.

    And if that particular tactic is used it is OP.

    I didnt say anything about how it happened. I said the impenetrable Flak shield was ridiculous. I dont see what you think about that is "Balanced" or realistically fun honestly?

    I mean whats the downside to boarding if you can still just pummel the main deck to protect your boarders? they are literally walking inside an explosion

  • Jdge439
    Captain
    Insider

    @dennis-box Secondly, It's not impossible to be boarded even when you are paying attention.

    Ive literally shot a teammate onto the enemy deck whilst sailing, whilst firing cannonballs full sail. It's really really easy as a matter of fact.

  • Nabberwar
    Lord
    Insider

    @jdge439 @Dennis-Box

    And if that particular tactic is used it is OP.

    I didnt say anything about how it happened. I said the impenetrable Flak shield was ridiculous. I dont see what you think about that is "Balanced" or realistically fun honestly?

    I mean whats the downside to boarding if you can still just pummel the main deck to protect your boarders? they are literally walking inside an explosion

    You may have not described how you got boarded in this post, but this sounds near identical to a post you made a few days ago. Which you describe how you got caught out with 2-3 crew mates off ship cashing out chests in the Arena. Proceeded to get boarded, and spawn camped without them even trying to sink you.

    Now I get that this isn't your point to this topic, however at least from my perspective, your asking for a remedy to a situation you yourself put yourself in. This strategy you describe requires quite a few steps in order to actually pull it off. Many of those steps have counter play already available.

    Regardless, to answer to main focus of thread. I am all for FF in its full force, but I know not everyone likes this kind of realism. Sure just having knock back might have an impact on play, but not near as much as you think it would. Even with knock back, if you are put in the position you describe, knock back wouldn't stop the strategy of working.

  • HobbyGG4017
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @Jdge439
    Well, its a viable tactic, its not op since you can just do the same with the enemy. Why is the enemy able to execute that strategy but you and your crew are not?

    OP = overpowered, meaning there is literally no other viable strategy which is wrong. Keeping your distance, unleashe a hail of cannonballs mixed with cursed cannonballs and you are good to go. Or the use of gunpowder, especially the mega Keg can down a ship in no time.

    Boarding is often necessary when the other options are not viable due to a lack of preparation, since hitting the same spot won´t generate more holes or bigger holes until the anniversary update. You have to protect the holes so they cant patch them up. Since both parties can use the tactic, its not op.

  • Jdge439
    Captain
    Insider

    @nabberwar Im not asking for a remedy to a situation... Im asking for no personal Flak shields for my crew or theirs. I think its silly.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    I personally think the idea is a good 1. That said, I would also like to know why it was removed early on - I'm sure there was a good reason for it.

    Also, saying "you can do it too" doesn't make for good game balance. Otherwise the DGE would still be prevalent.

  • Archangel Timmy
    Legend
    Insider

    @duke-of-spire said in Balance the Boarding Tactic:

    I don't know if anyone remembers this but there was one week early on that friendly cannon fire was turned on! It was the best week ever in my books! As a crew we had to negotiate our shots with our boarders so they didn't take damage. Also "Dodge the cannonballs" on a beach at the end of the night was great and awesome for crew morale!

    This was amazing for the short time it was in the game. I have been a proponent of FF being individually toggleable, but even more so for damage to all from any cannon source. I can understand that they feel taking FF damage from a cannon may allow room for toxicity, but for the most part, the cannons are on a fixed point with arguably less grief-ability than Kegs.

    CCB's are non-discriminatory, and so should regular CB's!

  • GrindTony45
    Marauder
    Insider

    Welp, it would knockback everyone, not only boarders so its not that good thing.

    But friendly fire sounds fine, without some knockback

  • S5 LouEVIL
    Insider

    Turn on both FF and knock back. I love the idea.

  • Jdge439
    Captain
    Insider

    @grindtony45 It levels the playing field.. thats why

  • Tundra 793
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    Hand on heart, I honestly thought this was in game right now. I'd swear my crewmates have knocked me about plenty with the cannons.

    Regardless, I'd support it. I feel it'd be a nice addition to combat, level the playing field and force crews to communicate more.
    I quite enjoy the idea that ship battles commence with cannons, but to move on to effective boarding, you would need to reduce, or cease cannon fire, lest you injure or knock off your own boarding team.

    @dennis-box said in Balance the Boarding Tactic:

    When you pay attention, you shouldnt get boarded. Just 1 shot them with blunderbuss on their way up the ladder or knock them off. Getting boarded is 100% your mistake. Getting killed over and over just displays your lack of skill in that situation.

    I really wish people would use the mechanics to their disposal instead of starting a useless discussion on the forums.

    That is a dangerous frame of mind mate. Theoretically, a whole crew could board an enemy ship via cannons, land mid deck very fast and proceed to rampage.
    Would you then put the blame on the boarded crew for not sniping, or hitting with cannonballs, in mid air, an enemy boarding team?

    Getting killed in the OPs exact situation is not a lack of skill. "High Ground" isn't just a Star Wars meme, it's a genuine and useful tactic. Boarders with guns camping the staircase to the lower decks grants a significant tactical advantage. If the boarded crew remained under cannon fire, their options would be to try and rush the boarders, leaving the ship un-repaired, or divide their forces which still leaves the tactical advantage with the boarders, or focus on repairs which would just be a catastrophically boring battle of attrition.

    Friendly knockbacks could promote a more engaging type of combat, where stalemates like the one @Jdge439 describes might be avoided in favor of more spirited PvP.

  • XZODEAK
    Champion
    Insider

    @tundra-793 "That is a dangerous frame of mind mate. Theoretically, a whole crew could board an enemy ship via cannons, land mid deck very fast and proceed to rampage.
    Would you then put the blame on the boarded crew for not sniping, or hitting with cannonballs, in mid air, an enemy boarding team?" No but it is their fault for putting themselves in a position that enabled the enemy crew to do this.

  • XZODEAK
    Champion
    Insider

    @jdge439 I do like this idea, I really enjoyed it during the week cannon FF was active.

  • FreaKtmONLINE
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    my biggest issue with boarders is the every low skilled player tactic of boarding with gunpowder. almost all ship vs ship fights i get into, result in them boarding with powder, or at least trying too. its very hard to notice someone under the water as you are having a cannon fight. its got to be the lamest part of SoT. having a fun cannon fight, and nekminit u see someone is trying to board. cant do anything to stop them because it blows the barrel anyways if u camp the ladder.

    there should be no hit detection on gunpowder if someone is on a ladder. or give us some melee option like a kick with the foot to push people off the ladder without gunpowder blowing. its reallly really lame that u see someone, but cant do anything to stop the barrel blowing. and then lose a fight to a crew that couldnt steer or shoot their ship with any skill. the best part about this game is the ship vs ship combat, the worst part about this game is that 90% of the people out there just circle and swim boarders with tnt, you either have to disengage and let them sail away just incase theres someone swimming or end up losing to low skill tactics.

    tldr;

    GIVE US A MELEE OPTION THAT DOES KNOCKBACK ONLY, so you can actually defend against powder n00000bs.

    thats probably also the best part about Arena, no stupid powder n00000bs, can actually have real battles without the lamest item in the game coming into play. stupid thing needs to be taken out of the game.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @freaktmonline I have tried boarding with a gunpowder barrel only to be shot off of the ladder without exploding in the process. Aim for the pirate, and not the barrel - much the same way you would vs. skeletons if you wanted to keep the explosive.

  • HobbyGG4017
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @tundra-793 said in Balance the Boarding Tactic:

    That is a dangerous frame of mind mate. Theoretically, a whole crew could board an enemy ship via cannons, land mid deck very fast and proceed to rampage.
    Would you then put the blame on the boarded crew for not sniping, or hitting with cannonballs, in mid air, an enemy boarding te

    Its not easy on the high seas to shoot youself onto the other ship in a fight. Secondly, just 1 whole is enough to sink when noone is on board of that ship. You can see them fly to you, have all crew members rdy and it should be a 4v4 on a galeon. There is no need to snipe them on their way, but to kill them on your ship is enough.

  • Duke of Spire
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @freaktmonline Barrel play is fun at times. I get what you're saying about the ladder though. When someone reaches our ladder we drop anchor and hit the water while one person explodes it with a sword swipe once its on deck. Then we hustle n patch. If you blow it up coming up the ladder it puts a ton of holes in your hull so it's best to get it on deck. Having to use this technique on a brig sucks! A foot to the head would be nice alternative.

  • Goedecke Michel
    Marauder

    @dennis-box sagte in Balance the Boarding Tactic:

    When you pay attention, you shouldnt get boarded. Just 1 shot them with blunderbuss on their way up the ladder or knock them off. Getting boarded is 100% your mistake. Getting killed over and over just displays your lack of skill in that situation.

    I really wish people would use the mechanics to their disposal instead of starting a useless discussion on the forums.

    I think you did not even read the opening thread, did you. This "you just have to be good" as a reflective answer is boring. Here is a thoughtful, creative suggestion. It deserves more than these reflexes. On the other hand, if you have nothing to contribute, why do you write anything at all? We know about boarding. This is not about defence against boarding. You don't need to teach us.

  • HobbyGG4017
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    I think you did not even read the opening thread, did you. This "you just have to be good" as a reflective answer is boring. Here is a thoughtful, creative suggestion. It deserves more than these reflexes. On the other hand, if you have nothing to contribute, why do you write anything at all? We know about boarding. This is not about defence against boarding. You don't need to teach us.

    First: There is so much whining in these forum about problems that do not exist. For example the kraken, devils roar, and now boarding. I know the devs want to help everyone but sometimes they are just helping the small and very loud minority. I havent read nearly as much positive threads about mechanics as they deserve, because ppl are less likely to say the positive but cry about negative experiences, even though the positive things outnumber the negatives, you dont read it in the forums.

    Im not against ff or knockback for own allies, but the way ppl try to get their point through is outrages. I think its a very good suggestion under the wrong premise or rather under extensive whining without reviewing the already existing possibilities.

    Second: I agree, i shouldnt have commented the way i did and should try to be more objective in the future. But if you read through the lines, you will be able to see, that i think the way it is isnt nearly as bad as the OP presented it.

    best regards

  • Jdge439
    Captain
    Insider

    @dennis-box when circumstances highlight an issue, you use that to portray the issue.
    That's how you articulate that an oversight has occurred. That's how the world works.

    Air bags aren't mandatory because if you had just not hit a wall you, wouldn't need them.

    I simply used an experience to highlight the silliness of the situation.

  • HobbyGG4017
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @jdge439 said in Balance the Boarding Tactic:

    @dennis-box when circumstances highlight an issue, you use that to portray the issue.
    That's how you articulate that an oversight has occurred. That's how the world works.

    Air bags aren't mandatory because if you had just not hit a wall you, wouldn't need them.

    I simply used an experience to highlight the silliness of the situation.

    I understand it. And i tried to say that in my experience its not as bad as u showed it.
    To stay in your airbag example. I will never need one if i can make sure i wont hit the wall.

    Also that example isnt really useable, since you already have countermessures for your boarding story while you have no other countermessures than an airbag if you already hit the wall. You cannot undo the damage from hitting a wall while in SoT killing the boarders and sailing away is like undoing it.

  • Jdge439
    Captain
    Insider

    @goedecke-michel Thank you. I used the situation to highlight the silliness I saw. I cant think of a better way to do that.

    About Kegs, If we are on a Galleon, which we usually are, We all run up to the command deck and wait then all run down and repair/kill the dude. Never Ever chase a guy with a keg, its just suicide. Its better to survive and fix it than to die and sink.

    But the FF option would be:

    A. More realistic
    B. Balance boarding tactics as you would just as easily foil your boarders own plans as you were to kill the home crew with cannon fire.
    C. Bring a welcome new obstacle for crews to figure a way to work around. Be it telling them you are aboard, boarding on the side away from cannon fire, staying below deck to make sure you dont get knocked over board.

    Id actually enjoy FF being full on with damage too, I think its a great way to make the game real. But the only thing Im really against here is personal Flak shields.

  • A Cranky Eskimo
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @jdge439 sometimes i wonder why there are people that dont want this game to be good and they try to do these twisted mental gymnastics with people like us who make good suggestions with actionable points.

    Its why i say crazy things like they are the devs on second accounts, or their angry moms getting upset at any feedback that isnt a pat on the back. Lol.

    All in all on topic i agree with you 100%.

  • Nabberwar
    Lord
    Insider

    @a-cranky-eskimo

    sometimes i wonder why there are people that dont want this game to be good and they try to do these twisted mental gymnastics with people like us who make good suggestions with actionable points.

    Regardless of the topic, this topic included, we just don't think the idea being presented makes the game good or better. I can understand from your perspective you see a suggested idea as good, we just don't. I mean most of us on this forum, want to see the game improve. That's something we all can agree with, we just have a different approach to get there.

    It definitely isn't a case were we don't want the game to improve. That's kind of silly straw-man to put there.

  • Jdge439
    Captain
    Insider

    @Nabberwar

    Regardless, to answer to main focus of thread. I am all for FF in its full force, but I know not everyone likes this kind of realism. Sure just having knock back might have an impact on play, but not near as much as you think it would. Even with knock back, if you are put in the position you describe, knock back wouldn't stop the strategy of working.

    Didn't you just say you're all for friendly fire? That's all we're asking

  • Nabberwar
    Lord
    Insider

    @jdge439
    If I were to nitpick, my version of FF varies from yours, but for arguments sake yes we agree. I just don't agree with the statement he presented. Just because someone disagrees with a presented idea, regardless of the current topic, does not imply they don't want the game to improve.

    Its a straw-man argument, and it does a disservice to whatever argument their championing.

  • Jdge439
    Captain
    Insider

    @nabberwar so, to summarize, yes

  • Jdge439
    Captain
    Insider

    @nabberwar so, you agree, but you disagree with the presentation.

    So instead of just arguing why the presentation doesn't suit you, why not tell us your opinions/give it's your presentation why you'd like it.

    Instead of standing up infront of the class to spit on the prior presenter. Give us your thoughts. Not your dismay for the way we like it.

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