@gotszu said in You shouldn't get xp for losing in Hourglass..:
@pithyrumble I play COD, and DbD (also lurks on forums there), did play a little Halo infinite.
In none of those games have I seen players actively farming losses.
DbD definitely has or has had problems with AFK killers farming.
@a10dr4651 said in You shouldn't get xp for losing in Hourglass..:
@gotszu the players who play it now won't stay forever. It's very repetitive. New players come along, you make the grind even harder than it is now, less are likely to stick around. Fewer people take part, quicker everyone gets bored. Its already relatively low on participation numbers.
The best way to stop loss farming is to give people a reason to fight. Defensive mode is the key to that. Introducing new invasion events using the hourglass that make people fight over something.
Personally i think they need to add third party rep back for sinking opposing factions, and then some sort of event that can be done in server while playing defensively like fort capturing from the pendragon vs flameheart event. If i load up a game rn, i just kind of think "alright, back to the usual grind!", but if i saw the sky full of red beacons and a reaper on map, you know i would ready my cannons for war!
Hourglass just simply needs more to do to keep people engaged and break the basic loop it has. Something that would make it just feel alive in server would be a big first step to me.
@gotszu sagte in You shouldn't get xp for losing in Hourglass..:
@schwammlgott I meant sad for them, sorry you misunderstood.
If people grind losses rather than try, it's not a "me" problem, it's just a problem. Sorry
Ok...fair
Still there are people who don't like pvp, or hate it that much, that they don’t even want to try...maybe anxiety, I don’t know...but they want that curse really bad...so just let them
The outcry, if loosing wouldn't get any xp at all would be far worse
I completely disagree with the idea. 100% disagree.
I'm not good at PvP, but I tried, what bothers me about Hourglass is trying, sinking and in the end I get the same reputation as a loss farmer. The same exact ammount of allegiance as if I just anchored and wait for my ship to be destroyed. Loss farming is not the root of the problem, it is cause because all loss xp is the same, always, doesn't matter if you sweat a lot and you end up losing a close battle or simply farm a loss, it is the same. So obviously the faster method is to do loss farming if you're not confident in your skills.
I'm not bad at PvP, I had my share of streaks and wins, but in no way I'll be able to compete with top players, heck I even struggle a lot of times against normal ones because I am below average. And in no way I'll improve in PvP so fast, nor I have all the time in the world to become a pro at PvP. I hate that all the effort and time I put into this mode is ignored, and instead the loss farmers obtaing the same result but even faster because they didn't delay their sinking like I did by fighting.
Well, you do not like fighting loss farmers, but I do, I wish every opponent I had were a loss farmer for the rest of my time in hourglass. I wish I could exchange my opponents who actually fight back with your loss farmers. The only reason I've been doing hourglass is for the curses, and I want the curses because I want to cosplay/roleplay as a ghost or skeleton, not because I want a trophy to show off I am good at PvP. If the reward for 100 allegiance was a jacket, a hat, or a ship set, or maybe a sword or whatever I would have never ever bothered to touch the hourglass ever. I don't seek a trophy, I just wanted a simple cosmetic, something to look good to myself, I don't care what others think about my cosmetics as I never show off what I have or how I got them. I guess I will just have to simply go with a costume from the emporium, too bad that the emporium doesn't have customizable skeletons nor a ghost filter costume.
i agree a more sophisticated approach to HG XP would make sense. not every opponent should give the same XP and not every performance should reward the same XP. there can be more factors in the equation, streak of the players, time of the fight, damage output, damage taken, mmr of the players.
im all against loss farmers, like if i play HG i want to fight and not watch somebody sail outta bounds over and over again. and they should get less rep than somebody that actually tries but just struggles and gets sunk 3 times in a row. and for real i believe if your a loss farmer this mentality is gonna hurt you in other parts of your life aswell. like just try, there is literally nothing to loose. but yeah you do you, but pls dont act like ur doing me any favour cause your not, your just wasting my time.
handing out XP boosts for daily challanges im against aswell, people are just gonna cheese it, that how it is. there are so many cheesed curses out there already.
i cant grasp why the HG experience is so bad for so many players, almost painful, like its a game, you are supposed to have fun, be creative, enjoy the ride, try to learn and not sweat the outcome too much, try to be a good opponent, the curses have been in the game for over a year now, they havent been a flex for a long time. if you dont enjoy PVP just dont play HG. noone will care if you have a curse or not.
like im all for a shrinking circle, some battles just take way too long in solo, which is probably the most frequent que. id also think there is a benefit for fixed supplies every battle. most of the lesser skilled opponent i face are just on basic supplies. this is a huge disadvantage if a player on streak can just spam chains, spam pines while the other player has 16 coconuts of HP. it would also bring people back in the Q faster. i say i win like 75% ish of my battles. the most annoying part for me is just supplying up after every sink. you also wouldnt have to loot playerbarrles after every fight if the supplies would be just fix while in Q.
thinking about it, active participation should be rewarded. and there should be an elo. if i win against a sweatlord i should get more XP than when i face a lossfarmer.
@locke5474677 said:
handing out XP boosts for daily challanges im against aswell, people are just gonna cheese it, that how it is. there are so many cheesed curses out there already... i cant grasp why the HG experience is so bad for so many players, almost painful, like its a game, you are supposed to have fun, be creative, enjoy the ride, try to learn and not sweat the outcome too much, try to be a good opponent
I grinded Arena on 3 accounts and HG doesn't even appeal to me enough to keep my interest. If people who actually enjoy SoT PvP get frustrated with regular issues/bugs, cheats, etc, imagine how the experience is for a casual.
HG shouldn't just appeal to sweats and cosmetic grinders. Otherwise it'll end up looking like Arena. Unless there was an event, Arena didn't get casual interest. Its playerbase was made up of regulars, and then the turnover of players who got their 240 and got out. Regulars were just comp kids, tdmers, and players like me who enjoyed getting beat by both on a daily basis haha. All the casual activity (apparently 97% of it) was in Adventure.
The reason I support daily deeds or win-of-the-day type ideas is because they'll bring in more casual interest. If the deeds are limited/restricted and challenging, or based on effort, then I'm not sure how they'd be able to be cheesed.
If not daily deeds/challenges, HG needs something. A ledger? More rewards? Loss-XP scaled to effort? Whatever the something is, needs to result in more casual activity, not less. Of course, a solid anti-cheat and a little server maintenance would go a long way. Would be a nice start.
If you aren't the one doing it, how does it affect you?
Some battles can extend to over an hour but you get the same xp where you to win or lose in a couple of minutes.
So makes sense sometimes players don't want to fight for hours on end for the same points they can get quickly via loss farming, dice rolls, etc.
@d3adst1ck big difference between sot and every other sandbox with pvp ...namely pve and pvp aren't separate much to both sides dismay
Just like the Siren skull shouldn't give guild rep because it's an associated faction so no rep of any kind just literally useless gold. So those who grinded out the skull got cosmetics and some gold to make their mountain of gold a little bit bigger. Now no one is doing the siren skull so we will add guild rep to it.... Typical Sea of Thieves. Punished for doing things right as they are added.
No XP for losing then your match making time will increase and the cheater encounter also increase.
What hourglass really needs is more rewards. All commendations should also have some reward associated to them or whats the point? Currently like half actually give you something. And having to sail 1000 miles in hourglass? Now you're just encouraging runners to sail in circles around the area as long as possible.
Having a dive to hourglass fort where you fight off 1 other crew. Winner gets the fort which also has hourglass loot inside. Hourglass needs some variety other than a diving face off in a randomly located circle.
Rare could make the pvp fun -- deal with bunny hopping, double gunning, rains of chains and blunder spam -- I'm sure that would fix the problem of people not wanting to waste their time with it just to get another cosmetic they'll barely use.
Pvp was better earlier on when it was just cannons, planks, buckets and boarding, with ships angling for position and exchanging broadsides. I can't blame anyone wanting to side step the monotony and the unpleasantness. I've seen players use dice or a coin toss to decide who wins - quite friendly people. And plenty of people exploited the invite system to max their hourglass before Rare patched it out.
A middle fix would be offering more xp for losing if you at least put up a fight; in Arena you got points for just landing a cannon shot. If putting up a fight of any kind gave you noticably better XP than just turning up and getting sunk, it would be worth putting some rounds in even if you ultimately sank.
@onemanstanding Rare have already said they won’t be changing the amount of xp given for losses to not encourage loss farming.
@tesiccl People are already loss farming, which is what the original comment is drawing attention to.
I am generally proposing that you need to fight even to get the loss XP in the first place, and that the more of a fight you put up the slightly-more-worthwhile-xp you can get. You can have a good fight, lose, and whilst it won't be as much as winning, the xp is still more than you'd get for loss farming.
Don't forget that Rare said they'd never give us anything like Safer Seas, either. And yet we got it :)
@onemanstanding said in You shouldn't get xp for losing in Hourglass..:
I am generally proposing that you need to fight even to get the loss XP in the first place, and that the more of a fight you put up the slightly-more-worthwhile-xp you can get. You can have a good fight, lose, and whilst it won't be as much as winning, the xp is still more than you'd get for loss farming.
Don't forget that Rare said they'd never give us anything like Safer Seas, either. And yet we got it :)
Creating a set of servers that toggles off a decent amount of content available in the same world with strongly reduced gains is quite a task, but is also not as difficult as adding context to a PvP battle and rewarding based on actions. And THAT has proven to be it's own can of worms if the other, closed gamemode has anything to go by with rewarding any cannon strikes and any player kills within the time span, encouraging camping to race up points.
Instead of trying to directly punish loss farming, perhaps the mindset of hourglass and the way it's presented could lighten up a bit. Since...
You've got some ideas, I swear... Nah but seriously, if we don't gain xp by losing the mode will be definitively dead, already in artificial coma.
And I remind you that even back in the days of the arena, you earned xp regardless of your place in the ranking.
It's a good thing we're gaining a crumb of xp in Allegiance, because it's already taking an incredibly long time to progress in this mode, so if we're forced to win to gain xp, BUT LOL!
They still put in an effort, still took the time to get the XP. I feel like you should, because for some newer players it can put an end to hourglass before it even starts, and that gives me another reason to feel bad for the pirate legend or new guy I just killed. Nobody wants to lose, so I feel like instead of nerfing they could make both parties happy by multiplying the hourglass win to give you much more XP?
Considerations for loss farmers shouldn't enter into the equation; they don't contribute in good-faith to the game mode or the experience of others, and once they get the curses they're going to quit. Ignore them.
Then who this hurts the most are the good-faith, low-skill hourglass pirates who want to get good at PvP, or like the PvP, or for any other reason want to participate in hourglass but, well, are terrible at it. Do you really want to discourage them from voting on the hourglass? The answer should be no, because every pirate matters so the SBMM works.
You can't reward nothing because HG is already hemorrhaging players and you can't do anything that would risk alienating the good actors from participating.
