I don't like sinking solo sloops or really anyone that doesn't want to voluntarily engage in a good fight, but if you've got a high level emissary flag up.....what's a pirate supposed to do? I'd like to see someway to capture flags without actually having to sink a ship.
Voluntarily surrender emissary flag
I never really understood this
Some pvpers have this thing where they will take everything including supplies and then will act like leaving the ship afloat is some sort of decency.
Take it or leave it, all this middle stuff just leads to cheesing, especially with flags.
A sink is insignificant after things of value have been removed from the vessel.
@pithyrumble said in Voluntarily surrender emissary flag:
NO REATTACHING IT!
Make it stealable too in case no one is there to surrender.
No reattaching it indeed. That can get exploity.
@wolfmanbush said in Voluntarily surrender emissary flag:
I never really understood this
Some pvpers have this thing where they will take everything including supplies and then will act like leaving the ship afloat is some sort of decency.
Take it or leave it, all this middle stuff just leads to cheesing, especially with flags.
I mean, i'll leave you like 5 planks, but it feels way more piratey to take someones stuff and sail off opposed to just sinking everything that moves without talking or interacting. It can lead to more positive player interactions too....i've formed organic alliances with this method...
And then there's the players that are just chilling and straight up tell us to take their stuff because they're just fishing or something.....but if they've got a high level emi flag up....well we've got to take that too friend...sorry.
Also, not a pvp player, I'm a pvpve player like we all are.
@mintharp184509 said in Voluntarily surrender emissary flag:
Interesting but the biggest change needed to the emissary system regarding flags is that reaper flags can be sold to any company and that also a gold hoarder flag could be sold to the gold hoarder and vice versa for the other companies.
There’s no reason to disincentivize any crew from partaking in PvP and currently the only company who is incentivized to go for emissaries and thus emissary flags are reapers bones emissaries which IMO is rubbish.
Reapers Bones emissary is about greed, it’s about accepting the risk of your location and heading being visible at all times in exchange for the ability to sell practically all loot items in one place with a multiplier.
This would be a good change. I agree!
The idea is interesting. But If it was implement it should require you to climb on top of the mast, Hold R/F or whichever button and it should take several seconds, whilst making some sound (like cutting wood for example).
The only downside I could think off, nobody would bother with it when sinking the same ship could take the same amount of time and would only be used by very few pirates who want to show mercy to new players. But then again, they would have an option to do it.
Tuckers would love this I would imagine.
I personally see this as bullying in a way. Live and let live, or show no mercy. ''No such thing as half way crooks'' :D
@danbeardluff I think you forgot to type in your reply ^^
That word became rather strong the past decade. Almost like a crime. So maybe should have used another ^^
I had few instances, especially when I was brand new when a galleon crew would roll up and try to take me hostage, do their bidding.
They were always presented with an option - fight or let me on my way, even if they stomped me I'd rather fight them than allow to be humiliated or allow them to abuse me over voice comms.The reason why I find this interesting, is that let's say you catch a fresh pirate legend like this. You take his chest of legends, you take all their athena loot or maybe leave them a piece or two and leave the rest, like GH chests or OOS skulls.
This mechanic becomes in a way like an organic alliance, you just don't know if the parley will continue. I would personally blast your ship as soon as your cannons are turned away from mine.@zig-zag-ltu said in Voluntarily surrender emissary flag:
@danbeardluff I think you forgot to type in your reply ^^
That word became rather strong the past decade. Almost like a crime. So maybe should have used another ^^
I had few instances, especially when I was brand new when a galleon crew would roll up and try to take me hostage, do their bidding.
They were always presented with an option - fight or let me on my way, even if they stomped me I'd rather fight them than allow to be humiliated or allow them to abuse me over voice comms.The reason why I find this interesting, is that let's say you catch a fresh pirate legend like this. You take his chest of legends, you take all their athena loot or maybe leave them a piece or two and leave the rest, like GH chests or OOS skulls.
This mechanic becomes in a way like an organic alliance, you just don't know if the parley will continue. I would personally blast your ship as soon as your cannons are turned away from mine.The gif was my reply :p
The entire taking hostages thing has always been weird to me. If it happened to me I'd probably try to play nice, get in with the crew, then make them go boomboom when they weren't expecting it. I've had people ask me to take them as hostages so they could be a deckhand, which is equally as strange.
The reason why you find it interesting is part of the reason why I find it interesting. It's just adding another tool to the tool box, which I believe would lend to generating interesting player experiences.
@danbeardluff Oh, can't see them for some reason, but I'm at work..maybe something to do with computer. Now I'm curious what gif is it :D.
I like your approach to that hostage situation, I might play along if it felt like roleplaying instead of people repeatedly shouting ''Zig Zag'' or trying to be disrespectful....Or if I had more time in a day in general, I'm nearly maxed in all factions, might try your approach sometime if opportunity ever presents itself, sounds fun ^^
@mintharp184509 said in Voluntarily surrender emissary flag:
Interesting but the biggest change needed to the emissary system regarding flags is that reaper flags can be sold to any company and that also a gold hoarder flag could be sold to the gold hoarder and vice versa for the other companies.
There’s no reason to disincentivize any crew from partaking in PvP and currently the only company who is incentivized to go for emissaries and thus emissary flags are reapers bones emissaries which IMO is rubbish.
Reapers Bones emissary is about greed, it’s about accepting the risk of your location and heading being visible at all times in exchange for the ability to sell practically all loot items in one place with a multiplier.
I have thought that selling the reapers flag to athenas fortune could be a fair and logical trade off, im not totally sure about selling reapers flags to the other factions though, it makes sense to give to athenas as a sort of bounty item since the 2 factions are mortal enemies, but it could probably make some sense for the order or merchants to accept reaper flags with the right lore explanation.
A vote to lower flag system like scuttling could be useful, however I do not want to see flags able to be stolen by another player UNLESS they can be reattached. Imagine you lose your grade 4 or 5 flag because someone cannoned over and stole your flag in a couple seconds. It's not balanced. It doesn't even matter if you kill them because you can't undo the steal.
Not something I would like to see.
Scenario A and the most likely to happen is that someone will see a reaper hit grade V, or see another ship heading their way, and immediately toss their flag just to hide from the reaper or deny extra loot.
Either way it detracts from the risk vs reward factor if you can abandon both at the drop of a hat.Scenario B is where it creates extra harassment where a sweaty streamer crew keeps spawn killing you until you give them your flag.
I don't see how it could do anyone any good.
@scheneighnay said in Voluntarily surrender emissary flag:
Not something I would like to see.
Scenario A and the most likely to happen is that someone will see a reaper hit grade V, or see another ship heading their way, and immediately toss their flag just to hide from the reaper or deny extra loot.
Either way it detracts from the risk vs reward factor if you can abandon both at the drop of a hat.Scenario B is where it creates extra harassment where a sweaty streamer crew keeps spawn killing you until you give them your flag.
I don't see how it could do anyone any good.
Scenario A: The people that will lower their flag when seeing a reaper are the same people that will hop servers as soon as they see a reaper anyhow.
Scenario B: You've still got the option to scuttle as always. Wouldn't it be easier for a sweaty streamer crew to just sink you?The difference with A is that if you can toss your flag without scuttling, where reapers are involved it means you can get to an outpost without being spotted. So it minimizes the risk of running an emissary.
With B it's because it's similar to what toxic streamers already do, they think they're cooler to force scuttling or make up games than to outright sink someone.
The people that will lower their flag when seeing a reaper are the same people that will hop servers as soon as they see a reaper anyhow.
When an emissary sees a reaper, they have to decide whether to continue the voyage (high risk, high reward), rush to turn in & lower the flag (low risk, low reward), or portal hop and keep the flag, while losing the loot (low risk, low reward).
If crews could drop and raise their flag as they wished, it would create low risk, high reward situations. Players could get to grade 5, hide the flag (even if they don't see a reaper), continue stacking, then re-raise the grade 5 flag just before turning in.
The only way something like this would work is if there was no way to re-attach the flag after voted down.
There have been times when my crew sunk another, just for their flag. And there have been times when my crew negotiated with another crew, offering to let them go in exchange for their Athena chest lol. So I think this has the potential to create some interesting interactions.
@scheneighnay said in Voluntarily surrender emissary flag:
The difference with A is that if you can toss your flag without scuttling, where reapers are involved it means you can get to an outpost without being spotted. So it minimizes the risk of running an emissary.
With B it's because it's similar to what toxic streamers already do, they think they're cooler to force scuttling or make up games than to outright sink someone.
The risk remains exactly the same. Toxic sweaties are going to toxic sweaty, with or without this suggestion.
Some pvpers have this thing where they will take everything including supplies and then will act like leaving the ship afloat is some sort of decency... A sink is insignificant after things of value have been removed from the vessel.
A sink is insignificant when everything else of value has been removed. But what if I don't want "everything including supplies," and I just want their flag?
@theblackbellamy said in Voluntarily surrender emissary flag:
The people that will lower their flag when seeing a reaper are the same people that will hop servers as soon as they see a reaper anyhow.
When an emissary sees a reaper, they have to decide whether to continue the voyage (high risk, high reward), rush to turn in & lower the flag (low risk, low reward), or portal hop and keep the flag, while losing the loot (low risk, low reward).
If crews could drop and raise their flag as they wished, it would create low risk, high reward situations. Players could get to grade 5, hide the flag (even if they don't see a reaper), continue stacking, then re-raise the grade 5 flag just before turning in.
The only way something like this would work is if there was no way to re-attach the flag after voted down.
There have been times when my crew sunk another, just for their flag. And there have been times when my crew negotiated with another crew, offering to let them go in exchange for their Athena chest lol. So I think this has the potential to create some interesting interactions.
Reattaching the flag is not part of my suggestion.
@theblackbellamy said in Voluntarily surrender emissary flag:
Some pvpers have this thing where they will take everything including supplies and then will act like leaving the ship afloat is some sort of decency... A sink is insignificant after things of value have been removed from the vessel.
A sink is insignificant when everything else of value has been removed. But what if I don't want "everything including supplies," and I just want their flag?
Like an alliance there is no obligation to follow through with any deal, this will lead to every bit as much drama through negotiations as it will legit deals.
This also makes it much more convenient to flag farm without requiring a ship sink/respawn in alliance situations
If their aim is to try to make pvp more chill between two sides with different interests and views then it doesn't help much to add another situation where there is no obligation to the deal.
This could easily be used in running/chasing situations to convince people to stop/give over the flag and then they get sunk anyway.
Any negotiation CAN be interesting but what goes on in the environment is often far from the spirit of the feature.
Imo any new features that add betrayal/dishonest scenarios into the mix just worsens the relationship between pver and pvper.
Unless they came up with some agreement system where it separated the people and lead to keeping the deal. There are already plenty of ways people can be and are dishonest in the game, I don't see the benefit to adding more while trying to repair a relationship between play styles.
A legit deal would be something I don't have an issue with for the environment and I think a legit deal could lead to improvement in that relationship between the two.
@danbeardluff said in Voluntarily surrender emissary flag:
@scheneighnay said in Voluntarily surrender emissary flag:
The difference with A is that if you can toss your flag without scuttling, where reapers are involved it means you can get to an outpost without being spotted. So it minimizes the risk of running an emissary.
With B it's because it's similar to what toxic streamers already do, they think they're cooler to force scuttling or make up games than to outright sink someone.
The risk remains exactly the same. Toxic sweaties are going to toxic sweaty, with or without this suggestion.
Being able to lower your emissary on demand is much lower risk, as you can back out of "high risk high reward" the moment a threat appears without losing loot.
That could be a neat idea. I don't seem them ever making a change though. Even the concept of re-attaching your flag is cool to me if someone sinks you just to get a sink not even caring about your loot or flag. Or you manage to sink the thief and get your flag back. They could have like a wheel similar to picking up those gold piles so as long as you don't get interrupted you can just steal the flag and bounce
Unless they came up with some agreement system where it separated the people and lead to keeping the deal. There are already plenty of ways people can be and are dishonest in the game, I don't see the benefit to adding more while trying to repair a relationship between play styles.
A legit deal would be something I don't have an issue with for the environment and I think a legit deal could lead to improvement in that relationship between the two.
Sea of Trustworthy individuals.
A legit deal would be something I do have an issue with, because that'd be too rules-not-tools. Too "purple tag" for me.
Maybe this is me splitting hairs, but it's not adding more ways to be dishonest; just adding one more loot item one could be potentially dishonest to obtain. It's possible to do this with other loot, and even resources. Why exclude flags? "You give me XYZ, you walk away with ABC." Will I uphold the deal? Will I betray you? Who knows lol. That's part of the game.
@theblackbellamy said in Voluntarily surrender emissary flag:
Unless they came up with some agreement system where it separated the people and lead to keeping the deal. There are already plenty of ways people can be and are dishonest in the game, I don't see the benefit to adding more while trying to repair a relationship between play styles.
A legit deal would be something I don't have an issue with for the environment and I think a legit deal could lead to improvement in that relationship between the two.
Sea of Trustworthy individuals.
A legit deal would be something I do have an issue with, because that'd be too rules-not-tools. Too "purple tag" for me.
Maybe this is me splitting hairs, but it's not adding more ways to be dishonest; just adding one more loot item one could be potentially dishonest to obtain. It's possible to do this with other loot, and even resources. Why exclude flags? "You give me XYZ, you walk away with ABC." Will I uphold the deal? Will I betray you? Who knows lol. That's part of the game.
There is only one group that carries the weight of something like this, it's not people with connections or combat skill or any power in the scenario
It's the people that will get run down, lied to, and sunk anyway.
Just like the other scenarios, what is it bringing to the game? the rare occasion where someone with all the power keeps their word in the pirate game?
getting sunk is getting sunk, we all get sunk
players getting lied to isn't something we really need to bring more of into the game, that builds a lot of resentment and bitterness between pirates and towards the game/environment in general.
If devs want to take some weight off pvers this type of stuff isn't how to do it.
pvers can handle a sink a helluva lot more productively than lies and betrayal built into the game. Sink 'em
There is no shortage of lies or betrayal in this game against those that have no real power either way other than to just find another experience or avoiding everyone after they get burned.
Betrayal in an alliance is what it is, risk/reward
someone getting run down, lied to, stops for the deal, then gets sunk/camped anyway, nothing about that makes the game better.
@danbeardluff said in Voluntarily surrender emissary flag:
It's literally the only thing of value you can't....acquire, by any means other than sinking.
So? sink the boat
What's more likely to lead someone to leave this game
a sink like we all face sometimes?
or yet another thing added to the game where people lie to and betray people that are in a vulnerable moment in an intense experience? People get over sinks, it's much more difficult for some to process being lied to in a conversation and then sank/camped anyway.
Who would we be serving with this? the pvpers that want to rob but not deal with their conscious consequences of it?
@danbeardluff said in Voluntarily surrender emissary flag:
It's a pirate game. You're being dramatic. It would be serving the community at large as an expanded option to gameplay.
The arrogance is incredible to have the lack of activity that exists in this game and to still hold views like this.
pvers can handle a sink a helluva lot more productively than lies and betrayal
Well, could they handle not getting sunk, keeping everything on their ship, except their flag?
someone getting run down, lied to, stops for the deal, then gets sunk/camped anyway, nothing about that makes the game better.
Again, this is just the other side of the coin.
But maybe it isn't a coin, in the sense that it isnt 50/50. You have more experience in Adventure than I do so I'll defer to your observations on general playerbase behavior. Maybe OP is part of a tiny percentage that would honor the agreement with the solo sloop. And maybe a majority of players would sink them anyway.
@wolfmanbush said in Voluntarily surrender emissary flag:
@danbeardluff said in Voluntarily surrender emissary flag:
It's a pirate game. You're being dramatic. It would be serving the community at large as an expanded option to gameplay.
The arrogance is incredible to have the lack of activity that exists in this game and to still hold views like this.
Which part shows my arrogance? It is a pirate game, right? Maybe you don't like that I think you're being dramatic by discussing the worst possible outcomes of an idea I thought was kinda neat and wanted to share? Or is it the last bit about a new mechanic being a tool that could be used in many different ways?
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