2 Chainshots in Sloop vs Sloop is too much

Most people spam 3-5 anyways. Just gotta hit yer shawts now instead of spray and pray. Pretty easy to land 2 chainshots before they get even one plank on.

The buff is totally fine IMO.

The shortened ferry times on the other hand...those are what have made the biggest impact on battles.

The two chains for sloops masts was realy needed imo.

To fight bigger crews before this change, you literaly had to shoot cannons from large distances & stay away from any broadside if possible so you dont get demasted.

One chainshot was way to punishing for a sloop, just hit the mast, spam blunder bombs & send over 1-3 boarders that also spam blunder bombs.
Atleast now you can take a little bit more risk without getting instantly punished.

Not every fight should be concluded through chainshots.
There were times when there were no chainshots.

@cpt-sockmonster said in 2 Chainshots in Sloop vs Sloop is too much:

The two chains for sloops masts was realy needed imo.

To fight bigger crews before this change, you literaly had to shoot cannons from large distances & stay away from any broadside if possible so you dont get demasted.

One chainshot was way to punishing for a sloop, just hit the mast, spam blunder bombs & send over 1-3 boarders that also spam blunder bombs.
Atleast now you can take a little bit more risk without getting instantly punished.

Not every fight should be concluded through chainshots.
There were times that there were no chainshots.

There was a time when you couldn't be de-masted.

Then pvp whined cause we could get away lol

@pithyrumble said in 2 Chainshots in Sloop vs Sloop is too much:

There was a time when you couldn't be de-masted.
Then pvp whined cause we could get away lol

The amount of whining back then was nothing in comparison to now, because of the massive increase in runners lol.
But thats a whole other topic.

@cpt-sockmonster said in 2 Chainshots in Sloop vs Sloop is too much:

@pithyrumble said in 2 Chainshots in Sloop vs Sloop is too much:

There was a time when you couldn't be de-masted.
Then pvp whined cause we could get away lol

The amount of whining back then was nothing in comparison to now, because of the massive increase in runners lol.
But thats a whole other topic.

Oh. Ummmm.... I taught them that.

I think 2 shots makes me nigh unvincible. Yes I'm making up new words.

@scaryfawn235336 Requiring 2 chain shots to demast a sloop is counter intuitive for new players; the damage needed to chop a mast should be the same for all ships. This buff only benefits sloop versus sloop fights; larger ships can still spam chains and demast a sloop as quickly as before. Instead of requiring two chain shots to disable a sloop, there should have been one specialized cannon on each side of the ship that could fire chain shot. Having only one cannon that can fire special equipment would have reduced the amount of chain shot spam and achieved the same defensive buff for the sloop.

@scaryfawn235336 I like it as a solo because I don’t have someone to catch my mast.
On a brig you can have 1 person catch mast, 1 person help raise mast, then have 1 person to repair mast while 1 person gets ready to lower sail. All the while the captain can easily shoot back at you while the other 2 people fix mast. Also on a brig if you have 1 mast go down you still have 1 mast to use and can easily have 1 person repair the mast while 2 people shoot cannons at you.

On galleon you can have 2 people raise mast while 1 person repairs and 1 person is returning fire. You have 3 people on cannons while 1 person repairs mast. You can have 1 person lining up shots via driving, while 2 people shoot cannons and 1 person repairs mast. All the while you still have 2 other masts that are functioning so repairing that single mast isn’t critical.

On sloop if you are solo, if your mast goes down you are dead in the water. You immediately get rammed and boarded or get boarded while the other 3 players shoot 30 holes into you within 20 seconds. If you catch the mast, there is a big chance you will die to a cannonball or a cannonball will knock your mast back down. All the while you have no one to repair while 5 level 3 holes fill your ship while 2 people come over to board you. If you’re duo slooping you might be able to catch the mast and have someone repair immediately. Even if you manage to catch and repair immediately you still probably have at least 4 level 3 holes below deck because you just sat dead in the water for approximately 10 seconds.

I think two chainshots is just fine the way it is. Although, I’m not typically on a galleon or brig crew that sinks to a sloop because I missed 4/5 chainshots. I’m typically the sloop that shot 5 firebombs onto your galleon and then shot 10 holes into your bottom deck while your crew scrambles about whether they should repair or put out the fire. Meanwhile I’m loading a jigball so that the galleon crew can dance while watching their ship sink while they notice I’m now aiming at mid deck which is now going to inevitably fill them even quicker. Just as they think they can repair I’ve decided to shoot blunderbombs at them, knocking them back and stopping repairs.

The thing is, as a solo sloop player you have to come up with a strategy, think of how you’re going to attack in steps/stages, and then execute the plan while staying calm. Most galleons or brigs have this invincible mentality of “let’s shoot everyone off the ship to try to board and instead of shooting cannons that can put holes in them we’re all going to collectively miss 15 chainshots.”

@sweetsandman said:

Most people spam 3-5 anyways. Just gotta hit yer shawts now instead of spray and pray. Pretty easy to land 2 chainshots before they get even one plank on.

Right. So the root cause of the issue remains.

It was only a problem before because of chain spam. Rather than solving chain spam, they made mast-damage less intuitive, and fixed nothing in situations with an overabundance of chains.

The better solution would have been to remove chains (and other specials tbh) from barrels, or drastically reduce their availability, and tie them to server activity instead.

For example, if skelly ships carried a special cannonball crate with some cursed balls, chains and throwables, then it would give players an incentive to invest in the server, and reward them for their time.

Less special availability means less special spam, better quality naval, and a better experience for sloopers.

Along with the reduced knockback, they could have also made it so that players could raise sloop masts quicker.

@theblackbellamy this! So this! There is already a long standing precedent (since game launch) that you can do things faster on a Sloop to compensate weaknesses. They should have stuck with that and made it rather quick even solo to raise the Mast back up again when it goes down. That would have been more intuitive to everything else in the game design. Having fringe case rules where in this one instance something behaves differently than in any other instance is a good way to confuse new players (even more the further we get from that specific patch most players won't go back multiple patch notes to see what changed).

And also, agreed again that special munitions are far too common. They should require investment to have them. Wraith Balls are a perfect example - they can be cool, and some very powerful, but you need to go and actually do the work to get them. CCBs could and should be tied to Skelly Ships. Chains, maybe make them a thing at active Forts (the regular variety to add a reason to go and do those more often as they fall further and further behind in value to effort with new additions). Hell, have the Forts use them on you on your approach to add new strategic layers to doing them.

Then just being in most barrels and now being able to be purchased is not a great approach. I feel the same about a lot of the Captaincy based supplies as well. Bait should be generally available for purchase, we already had Bananas and such for food (lowest Tier so you had to put in at least Barrel searching effort for the better stuff). These are just many problems in design choice that have come about recently in an effort to add "more bang for your buck" to newer features where they weren't needed.

@bizi-betiko said in 2 Chainshots in Sloop vs Sloop is too much:

Requiring 2 chain shots to demast a sloop is counter intuitive for new players; the damage needed to chop a mast should be the same for all ships.

It clearly shouldnt since sloops are the weakest in broadsides & only have one mast, one hit on the mast followed up by mass boarders and blunder bomb spams & GG.
Atleast bigger ships have more masts so they can keep going of other chains hit lol.

This buff only benefits sloop versus sloop fights; larger ships can still spam chains and demast a sloop as quickly as before.

From my experience, it definetly didnt only benefit sloop vs sloop.
Hitting chains isnt that easy, the problem was that they can just spam and only needed one hit. On a sloop they all need to hit one target, not multiple targets. With a sloop it is still all about keeping distance and relying on longer shots on bigger crews.

Instead of requiring two chain shots to disable a sloop, there should have been one specialized cannon on each side of the ship that could fire chain shot. Having only one cannon that can fire special equipment would have reduced the amount of chain shot spam and achieved the same defensive buff for the sloop.

That wouldnt have solved the issue.
It would have still resulted in the usual blunder bomb spam & boarders can also still throw blunder bombs and prevent you from raising.

The thing rare needs to nerf drasticly is the chance of finding chainshots & make them more special like cursed balls.
A cursed anchor ball is harder to find yet is less destructive.
A special ball should be like a secret kinda weapon that you use when the moment is right & not something that you get loads of and just spam them.

@theblackbellamy Regarding chains/curses being tied to server activity, I've proposed that (in pretty elaborate detail) well before they made these changes. I wish they would have gone that route instead...but here we are.

Admittedly, the sloop mast buff has made life better against crews that only knew how to spam chains (poorly) and send boarders. You know, the crew that would send 10+ chainshots and only manage to hit one? Yeah...those crews are way easier to deal with these days.

Another thought....I also feel like the endless supplies are terrible for the game also. I feel like Barrels 3.0 would be a healthy change. Something closer to Barrels 1.0 but with variety, some sort of reasonable limit and limits on storage crate capacity as well.