Boat and sail configs (and tacking)

  • Jum9260
    Seafarer
    Insider

    So, recently I've seen lots of players complain about people running with no way to catch up or have a chance at firing a single volley at the opposing ship. I think a good way to nullify this would be something of a ship "overhaul".

    Obviously I can only hope for different ship types (Not bigger though lol), but I figured that a good way to stop straight running would be the inclusion of Tacking. Basically, instead of putting your sails straight into the wind when going against it, ships would have to go at an angle and "Zig-Zag" back and forth towards their destination. This would obviously take more skill, but more importantly would force both opposing vessels to have a clear shot of each other. Going into the wind would still be faster on small ships, but this would allow slower ships the chance at a few pot shots every once and awhile.

    On the topic of sails, I realize the sails have a very simplistic design that I quite enjoy gameplay wise. But some could be improved to look more complex akin to their real life counterparts. This would simply mean adding more personality to each ship, and some would be as easy as adding a spanker to the Brigantine and Sloop, without necessarily changing gameplay. Some, I admit, would be a bit more complex, but I feel the sails currently feel a bit small in comparison to the actually size of the boats.

    On a final note, I think it would be cool to add new ship variants with drawbacks and weaknesses that are made obvious in their design and layout of equipment. I know how hard it is to balance new mechanics, so I wonder if these ships could be limited to their own mode (adventure classic vs adventure expanded) the only difference being one has more variety, but the other keeps the classic feel. Although, this may just split the player base. One last thing would be the inclusion of some more functionality on all boats in the form of a ships log, and card games. This could be something as simple as renaming the pirate log and putting a book somewhere on the boats. For card games, I find my crew on their phones or doing something else in between action. Having crew and alliance wide card games would feel at home in a sailing game. (especially since it was a real problem for sailors)

    Lemme know what you guys think, all replies are welcome. :)

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  • Captain Coel
    Commander
    Insider

    So I like some of the stuff here. Not sure adding a different game mode will happen, they did that once and its being removed now to help consolidate debelopment efforts.

    I think if this game had released with more realistic sailing mechanics it would have been about that and not the adventure. But we also didnt expect the expanded ship damage.

  • El Spaniardchi
    Marauder

    And what if i have to sail into the wind to reach a world event, or get to a island to complete my voyage? I'd now have to fight with my sails every time the wind isn't in my favor. Which is just not fun for anyone, be they chasing, or running.

    As for anyone who thinks pirates shouldn't be allowed to be tactical, and instead, should just hand them their treasure, that's on them. If they were a better PvPer, they would've caught them already, and not need the game to give them a crutch to lean on.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @jum9260 said:

    Basically, instead of putting your sails straight into the wind when going against it, ships would have to go at an angle and "Zig-Zag" back and forth towards their destination. This would obviously take more skill, but more importantly would force both opposing vessels to have a clear shot of each other.

    This right here is where I think you made a mistake - ships aren't always supposed to have a clear shot at 1 another. That breaks balance in favor of the larger, faster ships with more firepower, and favors those who want to PvP. If a pirate or crew wants to run without having to fight, they should be able to do that, provided they are aware enough of their surroundings.

  • Jum9260
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @galactic-geek

    Smaller ships would be easier to maneuver, and would still have the advantage of tighter turns and faster sails to operate.

  • Jum9260
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @el-spaniardchi How is it a crutch? Its a real thing most if not all sail powered ships did. I just think its weird that having straight sails when going head on with the wind it weird.

  • Jum9260
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @captain-coel I'm just trying to find ways the game could hopefully be touched up a bit instead of adding new areas which make the game more unstable. Plus, I really think you can have the best of both worlds here.

  • El Spaniardchi
    Marauder

    @jum9260 It's just not practical to have realistic wind in a game like SoT. It's ok for games that have other means of traveling, or games that are more relaxed. It's not fun in a game that focuses on traveling by sailing, or one that can be competitive like SoT's PvP.

    Adding something like zigzagging against the wind only makes sailing against the wind more annoying for BOTH sides. The runner now has to Zig Zag to get away and sell, the chaser has to now Zig Zag to catch the other crew. Pirates who are just going to pick up a chest or 2 from a Island now have to Zig Zag! It'd be super annoying for everyone, even the Hardcore passive PvEers, and the Hardcore Aggressive PvPers.

    The snarky crutch remark was about how you were saying those sub par PvPers were complaining about not being able to catch pirates who run away. Not everybody owes these PvPers their loot. If the runner can get away, good for them! Quite frankly, these so called "PvPers" need to pull a page out of their own book, and "Git gud" at chasing. Not have the game hand them free dubs for basically looking at another ship.

  • Jum9260
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @el-spaniardchi Wasn't going full sail into the wind a glitch though? And i'm not saying you'd have to use this method, I just thought it would be possible if they fixed it. As for the more realistic sail design, I'd hope it would be purely cosmetic. It would just make the ships a bit more believable imo.

  • El Spaniardchi
    Marauder

    @jum9260 I'm not sure if it was a glitch or not. Perhaps someone who is more knowledgeable than me will be able to explain if it is or not.

    As much as it would make sense for a game that has sailing to have realistic sailing, it doesn't work for a game that already has a established wind and sails system. It would make players too dependent to wind direction, and it's not fun to get screwed and lose loot because of rng wind.

  • Jum9260
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @el-spaniardchi You wouldn't have to change anything though? If its intended then Idk.

  • CallMeBackdrafT
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @jum9260 As it stands currently all ships have a means to get away from other ships

    in a running/catching situation:
    Galleon is fastest with wind straight from the back
    Brig is fastest with wind from a side angle
    Sloop is faster with wind dead ahead and is the only way to get away from the other two

    this is all intended

    This is a balancing thing, whilst yes pvp is a core game mechanic it doesnt mean you shouldnt be able to get away from an encounter you are ill prepared for

    The bigger ships (brig and galleon) also do have an advantage from tacking and the only ship that doesnt enjoy any advantage from angling the sails unless you can get full wind is the sloop.

    There is alot of balancing that went into the current three ships, from wind speeds and advantages to how quickly the fill up with water (the galleon sinks the fastest) then there is the manouverability, the sloop is nimble and can sail circles around both however the brig has insane acceleration but also slows down the least effective.

  • JaegerDelta3465
    Marauder

    I think this would be fine to put on top of the way it works currently. The current way of sailing would be your cruising speed. Not the fastest way you can travel but the fastest way with minimal effort. Then if you have your crew working the sails together you can reach your top speed. With top speed differences being maintained between ships if the maneuvers are being performed correctly.

    If you are being pursued, you have a choice; maintain top speed by working the sails and rudder as a crew or sending a boarder to hinder the enemy. If you send a boarder and they fail to board the enemy ship gains on you (not enough to completely close the distance, but just enough to make maintaining top speed worth it) during the time you are under crewed. While at the same time your boarder might be more able to slip past the enemy crew if they are busy working sails and rudder to maintain top speed instead of keeping watch. Just adds that extra little bit of decision making and cooperation on top that wont come up most of the time. But when it does, working together would turn the tide of battle.

    And yes, it will be hard to get the timings right if you are solo, but the crew size of the sloop is 2. Solo is hard mode. The game cant be balanced for hard mode.

  • Jum9260
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @jaegerdelta3465

    That's exactly what I meant. I when it comes to more complex sails, I was hoping they'd just make them look a bit more realistic, cosmetics aside. They're simply missing parts and aren't big enough. I think they know this, because the Spanish galleon looks more realistic even if it's only a ghost ship.

  • ThaGoochiestMan
    Master
    Insider

    @captain-coel I mean, didn't Rare say they weren't going to put any resources towards Arena ~a year ago?

    I know the removal is still fresh and all, but it's not like Rare has had any resources on Arena for over a year. Thus no consolidation would be taking place.

    At this point I think the pirate theme extends further: Rare is just "pirating" money from Microsoft by continuing to push this game without solving any of the bugs or common complaints from players. Rare made a pretty game they could sell to the executives, using the premise of a "sandbox" to explain away the lack of features and development progress.

  • JaegerDelta3465
    Marauder

    @jum9260

    I got you homie. I'm holding out hope for cosmetic rigging types and finally having a gaff sail on the mainmast of my brigantine.

  • Jum9260
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @jaegerdelta3465

    Ikr? I'm kinda tired if people saying they shouldn't add stuff like this because the game isn't trying to be "realistic". I know and understand this, but I honestly don't understand why people don't want more variety. Looking at the sloops current design still hurts my brain.

  • Captain Coel
    Commander
    Insider

    @thagoochiestman they werent going to actively develop the arena. It still requires some work to keep with the current add ins to the world. a great example are flares in galley arena but not in sloop arena. thinga like this needed to be kept correct. Now arena is in its final death scene and nothing but finishing comms matter.

  • Jum9260
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @thagoochiestman

    I agree. I really wish Rare would focus on core feature and new sandbox elements instead of the story at the moment.

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