the concept is VERY sound, and the niche for sailing MMO is definitely lacking in quality games at the moment. This game is based on a concept of playing as a crew, but the match making is definitely lacking (non existent in my experience). The only option that I see is begging on reddit, which I can't even do since I just "joined" the sub and can't post for 30 days. the discord is also a no-go, I have yet to get anything from it. I am currently left with the open crew option, which leaves me with loot thieves and afkers. Because of this, I am left to play solo, which leaves me at a huge disadvantage because I am not a master of the mechanics for cannons, or solo play. If the match making/alliance/public chat/ ANY option to team up were to be fixed, this game would be worth playing and spending money on.
Secondly, let's visit the ashen lands. Volcanoes erupt once a week worldwide, so we can tone down the eruptions in this area, as it prevents anything from getting done. Perhaps one volcano per day, and either tone down the skeleton spawns or the geysers. I can't even look at a map without getting shot into the air or attacked by 6 skeletons. the other regions are fine, but the ashen lands seem to be a particular nuisance with the combination.
Finally, the depressing clouds all the time gets annoying, and this can be adjusted in conjunction with the volcanoes in the ashen lands, and just plain toned down in the other areas.
Remember, players are looking for an escape from their already depressing lives (and something about a global virus that has entire countries shut down at the moment), they don't want to play a game where it is even more depressing then the life they are trying to take a break from.
With better matchmaking (at least for pc, I don't know how to fix Xbox), toning down the chain-volcano-geyser-skeleton murder that is the ashen lands. and cutting the hurricanes down in half, this game can be a great way to unwind and escape reality for a bit. It could possibly even put the other game that is "maybe coming out, not sure, maybe, but definitely not sure" to bed.
What this game is lacking, and how it can be fixed
@cultofwar99
Match making is lacking? What do you mean? The match making is balanced for adventure. There are no requirements for it, so I could be a PL A20 and get into an open crew with a player who is playing for the first time. Reputation does not mean experience in this game anymore. The Roar is actually easier than it once was. Volcanoes are awesome, so the eruption count is fine. That's the challenge of the Roar. First you have smoke from the mountaintop, then earthquake, then explosion. The clouds in the Roar are awesome too. They give the Roar a feel of ash in the air. Would you like the Roar to have the crystal blue waters of the Shores of Plenty, or the clouds of the Wilds? Everything in this game is (somewhat) avoidable. Storm? Go around it. Volcano? Go around it. Skelly ship? Either sink it or outsail it.@supersnipper60 the matchmaking is balanced for randomness. The load screens take WAY too long if you have to switch teams. In order to get a decent crew, it takes sometimes an hour of rotating between dancers, screaming hot mic'ers, and other languages. There are also bell ringers, emote trolls, spies, and just plain toxic players. It can and should be improved.
@cultofwar99 So how do you suppose that the devs make sure that you don't spawn in with trolls? How do they know that the bell ringing is annoying? Bells are very useful in game. How do the devs know if the players are speaking Spanish, Russian, or a different language? The devs can't tell if player x will go rogue in five minutes, or if player z is toxic. Sometimes you have to take it with the lumps, or just keep crew hopping.
@supersnipper60 Statistics. They get them from every player, and they also make reports about (for example) how many fishes were eaten in a week. Is really easy to know if:
- Players set on fire usually the ship when playing on open crew (including how much time between connection and the fire start).
- How many times a player has ringed the bell on a minute (also on open crew).
- From where the player connects (used for server selection, if even exists, dunno) and what system language they have set as default.
- How many times the player said censored words.
- The ratio between a player killed another player/was killed by another player.
- Ships drowned/its own ship was drowned.
- Etc, etc.
You can get absolutely every data you want from your own game, you just have to implement it. With this data, you could do something that simple as adding matchmaking to make players join to players with similar tastes or gameplay styles, or level. But it's obvious, since how everything around this game is going, an extremely unbalanced online is the seal of "quality" for SoT. We'll have more statistics about how many barrels were exploded yesterday than matchmaking.
Edit: Also, this could be also done to matchmake with other ships, etc. It's a basic feature for online gaming from a long time ago. There's nothing special to "let people find different adventures". It sounds cute, but the fact is that every time I play less because the game is full of trolls and unsportsmanlike people. Just let them join together with matchmaking like "shadowbanning" on the old forums and the other people remaining will be happier.
@quiquerulz said in What this game is lacking, and how it can be fixed:
@supersnipper60 Statistics. They get them from every player, and they also make reports about (for example) how many fishes were eaten in a week. Is really easy to know if:
- Players set on fire usually the ship when playing on open crew (including how much time between connection and the fire start).
How do they know that the friendly stepped into fire that I set on an enemies ship?
- How many times a player has ringed the bell on a minute (also on open crew).
How do they know if they saw a ship in the distance, or it was to the music?
- From where the player connects (used for server selection, if even exists, dunno) and what system language they have set as default.
The coding to set it up would not work, as VPNs, bastion hosts, proxy servers, and other devices that hide the location would mess with the address.
- How many times the player said censored words.
The coding to fix that would be a big patch
- The ratio between a player killed another player/was killed by another player.
How do they know if it was a blunderbomb that was thrown to hit an enemy, but the enemy moved and killed the friendly? Unintentional bans? What if a friendly dies to the fire on an enemy ship that I set on fire? Consequences?
- Ships drowned/its own ship was drowned.
So hitting a rock and not fixing it could result in consequences?
- Etc, etc.
etc, etc
You can get absolutely every data you want from your own game, you just have to implement it.
And if they implement it, it would take up a lot of space, and make the game buggier
With this data, you could do something that simple as adding matchmaking to make players join to players with similar tastes or gameplay styles, or level.
How would they tell gameplay styles? How would they tell tastes? Put all the Kraken outfits together? What if I want to play with lower level players so I can help them learn?
But it's obvious, since how everything around this game is going, an extremely unbalanced online is the seal of quality for SoT. We'll have more statistics about how many barrels were exploded yesterday than matchmaking.
Because the matchmaking is exactly what the devs want it to be.
Wow. xd Seriously, as a gamedev, a basic matchmaking is not that hard to do. Detecting the bell is easy as detecting who triggered the action to sound the bell. VPNs can be detected the most of the times, since there are programs to get big lists of IPs detected as VPNs, or other metadatas that make that easier. The most known video-streaming apps do that. Sometimes they fail, but for language detection an advise could be done to tell the player to disconnect the VPN if they want correct matchmaking.
The coding to count censored words could be done on Python, for example, with one line:
player.censored_word_count += [word for word in sent_message.split() if word in CENSORED_WORD_LIST]There's some data, like killing or setting on fire the own ship, that could be tried to be detected joining them with more data from the server. There's no need to be perfect at first, but at least there will be something. If you, as a PL20, can join a new player on a crew or a server, that means matchmaking does not exist.
@quiquerulz said in What this game is lacking, and how it can be fixed:
Wow. xd Seriously, as a gamedev, a basic matchmaking is not that hard to do.
Which is what is in the game. OP wants a matchmaking system that only picks crews that aren't annoying, which is impossible to do.
@quiquerulz This isn't really on topic, but do they have counters in place for commendations? I really want to know if anyone has ever gotten the Legendary Hunter of the Shrouded Ghost title.
@supersnipper60 said in What this game is lacking, and how it can be fixed:
@quiquerulz said in What this game is lacking, and how it can be fixed:
- How many times a player has ringed the bell on a minute (also on open crew).
How do they know if they saw a ship in the distance, or it was to the music?
A normal (non-troll) person wouldn't spam the bell indefinitely to alert their crewmates of something. They'd ring it a couple of times, and then stop. Additionally, considering you can ring the bell multiple times per second a normal player wouldn't ever have to worry as their "time spent bell-ringing" percentage would still be low.
Really, it's very simple coding.
So I was soloing in a sloop, managed to get emissary 5 for order of souls and then I get attacked by both a megladon and a skeleton ship at the same time. I killed both, and got ready to harpoon my loot but then my xbox had a forced update. By the time the update was finished, my session has expired and I could not rejoin. Lost about 2 hours today, I would suggest that this game would prevent forced updates and things (especially random ones that are not scheduled)
@thagoochiestman yes, but if you code all of the different counters that OP wants, then it would be a lot of coding.
The Devil’s Roar does not need to be nerfed. It is a completely voluntary area to visit that many of us appreciate because it is more challenging in return for higher rewards. If someone does not feel up to the challenge, they can wait until they gain more skill with the game before visiting. Players who puff up their chests and claim they are so skilled at the game look a little foolish when they want to tone down the Roar to their level. Many of the added elements of the Roar can be used to your advantage if you really know what you are doing.
As far as matchmaking goes, use LFG or Discord to find crews that match your play style. If you are spending an hour jumping from crew to crew then you don’t know how to use the tools available to you to achieve the results you want.
@thagoochiestman I sail daily with a person who is a very free-spirited player who does some of these things very regularly (ring bell, randomly throw blunderbombs or fire at own crew mates, randomly drop loot overboard, etc) We’ve been playing together for 2 years and have finished everything in-game (Shrouded Ghost aside). When it comes time to lock it in and battle others in PvP or PvE, they’re ready to go. How would coded counters differentiate that free-spirited behavior from trolling for matchmaking?
@promotordj Whataboutism actually doesn't advance arguments as much people seem to think it does... In fact, whataboutism is most often used to try to dissuade people of any change by bringing up red-herring arguments..
So to use the specific example you replied to, during any give minute what percentage of it does this "free-spirited" player spend ringing the bell?
We could arbitrarily just say anything above 33% is trollish, but let's be fair and call it 50% — that seems like a fair way to determine whether or not someone is trolling: is over half their time in this game spent doing something trollish?
And even if it's over 50%, what would really be the downside? You'd just end up playing with more players who also like to ring the bell and maybe even make some buddies out of it! :)
@thagoochiestman This has nothing to do with Whataboutism. I provided a single edge case of many different types of edge cases. Rare has developed a game that is all inclusive to everyone. What’s being discussed here is developing code to limit or segregate players based on their potential game behaviors, which is not inclusive to all play styles. I don’t agree with trolling behaviors, as it is disruptive to many crews. But in a sandbox game, who am I to say how someone should play?? And if they do decide to play in a certain way, then what’s being said here is the developers should sequester them to a set of servers.
Open Crews are a roll of the dice. Sometimes you hit big, sometimes you don’t. Those times that you don’t, it’s not all that difficult to quit out and find a new crew.
@thagoochiestman said in What this game is lacking, and how it can be fixed:
@supersnipper60 said in What this game is lacking, and how it can be fixed:
@quiquerulz said in What this game is lacking, and how it can be fixed:
- How many times a player has ringed the bell on a minute (also on open crew).
How do they know if they saw a ship in the distance, or it was to the music?
A normal (non-troll) person wouldn't spam the bell indefinitely to alert their crewmates of something. They'd ring it a couple of times, and then stop. Additionally, considering you can ring the bell multiple times per second a normal player wouldn't ever have to worry as their "time spent bell-ringing" percentage would still be low.
Really, it's very simple coding.
LOL, if this is such an easy task to code in then explain why absolutely ZERO games employ such a restrictive matchmaking protocol to prevent such behavior? That's right, ZERO!
Worthless protocols that are absolutely unneeded and would greatly hinder matchmaking by increasing wait times while all these piddly parameters are checked - good luck finding ANY arena matches with something like this in place. Especially given it is such a small percentage of people who you'd be filtering out, this would be a colossal waste of time and resources and likely wouldn't work either. Bad idea that doesn't even warrant consideration.
@quiquerulz said in What this game is lacking, and how it can be fixed:
Wow. xd Seriously, as a gamedev, a basic matchmaking is not that hard to do. Detecting the bell is easy as detecting who triggered the action to sound the bell. VPNs can be detected the most of the times, since there are programs to get big lists of IPs detected as VPNs, or other metadatas that make that easier. The most known video-streaming apps do that. Sometimes they fail, but for language detection an advise could be done to tell the player to disconnect the VPN if they want correct matchmaking.
The coding to count censored words could be done on Python, for example, with one line:
player.censored_word_count += [word for word in sent_message.split() if word in CENSORED_WORD_LIST]There's some data, like killing or setting on fire the own ship, that could be tried to be detected joining them with more data from the server. There's no need to be perfect at first, but at least there will be something. If you, as a PL20, can join a new player on a crew or a server, that means matchmaking does not exist.
Basic matchmaking is simple, what you suggest is not basic by any means. If it is SOO easy like you seem to think, then kindly explain why exactly ZERO games employ such a rigorous and restrictive matchmaking filter based on behavior like you suggest? That 's right ZERO! Not once has a game filtered out tea-baggers or the like, because it is not as easy as you seem to think and has consequences that everybody pays for.
All your suggestion would do is greatly increase matchmaking times, probably to the extent that Arena would be completely unplayable due to the long queues...if it even worked. People should not be filtered by behavior but by skill level, and there is no good way to determine skill level in this game due to its nature. You are the filter for bad behavior, not the game.
There is an obvious difference between troll ringing and not having a mic. If you are arguing, you are probably a troll ringer. Different languages is inexcusable, if I don't understand russian or italian, the group wont get far. If I can't even download the app to add friends, I wont get very far into the game. I know basic programming, and I could design a better matchmaking for PC players. This seems like an xbox game that allowed its pc friends to play for laughs, but doesn't seem very interested in making the pc ux any better then the xbox, or even try to play on the pc version.
And as far as bomb trolls, general a-hats, and immature kids, I should be able to ignore players that I dont want to play with, that way I have a better enjoyment of the game, and... PLAY LONGER, because thats the point, to keep players in game longer.
And as far as particular tastes, if I want to run ashen bosses, or forts, that will help new players learn MUCH faster then "hey let's completely randomize matchmaking" because all of them may end up in the same crew, and if that happens enough, you are actually hurting the game, because players don't want to play it because matchmaking keeps putting them with crews that just want to sail around and play shanties, or do maps, or low level chests. I have found maybe 5 crews that worked for me, and I have probably looked at over 100. say 3 minutes to load, that's a lot of time wasted looking for a crew, I would rather play another game where I can find a crew that works for me, and I don't have to keep reloading the game at 3-5 minutes each attempt.
@dlchief58 dijo en What this game is lacking, and how it can be fixed:
@thagoochiestman said in What this game is lacking, and how it can be fixed:
LOL, if this is such an easy task to code in then explain why absolutely ZERO games employ such a restrictive matchmaking protocol to prevent such behavior? That's right, ZERO!
In normal games from 21st century, you can kick players from servers, you can call admins or create a private server, lol. Or you simply have something called "matchmaking". :)
@arctroopachedda dijo en What this game is lacking, and how it can be fixed:
@quiquerulz This isn't really on topic, but do they have counters in place for commendations? I really want to know if anyone has ever gotten the Legendary Hunter of the Shrouded Ghost title.
I'm not sure if that data was published. I remember like a year ago they published some info like that, and asked the users if they could guess the number to win some cosmetics. I could not find the posts using Google right now, but maybe you can search them to check if they published that.
You realize if your crew sells something that you get 100% of it right? That your crewmates doing something or you will benefit you both in equal amounts.
Also if you want to set out requirements to meet use the LFG system? Like I believe the open crew system needs some love, but your idea of filtering human behavior and classifying it is horrible.
You realize that the roar is the more difficult to traverse more rewarding area and that it has been scaled down a lot.
@cotu42 I am VERY WELL aware of this, but you can't sell anything when you are on the dock because the other 3 players want to play instruments and scream into their mics. Did you even read the post? It is not about the end result, it is getting off the docks, and making matchmaking better. I still have no clue how to add a friend since I can't get the mythical xbox app to work. It is as if they only want pc to boost their numbers, and don't want to actually make this viable for pc/xbox cross play.
And don't get me started on reporting toxic players, I got called something pretty nasty today for asking what was going on, but since I didn't record it, the guy gets away with it? what about players that can't record? are they subject to being treated like garbage by players that think it is ok to drop f-bombs and n-bombs? these are the players that ruin games, I am not referring to every single player that I don't like, but when you have to run 20 teams to get 1 that works, or take even longer in the "looking for group" it is really counter productive to having the fun you log onto the game for.
Ok mister know it all, you accuse me of not reading your post while commenting upon your open crew members are loot thieves or afkers or the notion that the devils roar is to difficult in it's current version which is a shell of the hell it used to be.
You want a matchmaking system based upon the prediction of behavior of people? No a system like that will never work. The open crew system could use some love, but not in the way you suggest.
Open mic people are able to communicate, people playing music might be waiting for some coordination... you act like open crews magically come together and function. It takes some initiative to make it better.
Each system has a recording system available to them, that you don't know how to operate the xbox game bar is not the developers fault. Look up how to set it up, you instantly gain access to LFG, record abilities even for things that just happened, inviting people etc. It isn't upon the developers to setup your systems.
You are not the only person that runs in open crews my man. I have hunted pirates, done tall tales, done voyages, world events, etc with great people. Maybe you should consider your approach to the people you meet a bit more. Sure you come across a troll every so often or one that has issues leaving the dock, but you just move on to the next or you take lead and captain.
@quiquerulz said in What this game is lacking, and how it can be fixed:
@dlchief58 dijo en What this game is lacking, and how it can be fixed:
@thagoochiestman said in What this game is lacking, and how it can be fixed:
LOL, if this is such an easy task to code in then explain why absolutely ZERO games employ such a restrictive matchmaking protocol to prevent such behavior? That's right, ZERO!
In normal games from 21st century, you can kick players from servers, you can call admins or create a private server, lol. Or you simply have something called "matchmaking". :)
Hmmm, yet you completely avoided the question and instead try to change the script. Again exactly ZERO games with matchmaking have any filters like you suggest that disseminate people into different groups by behavior, but rather all of them do it base on SKILL level.
Furthermore not every "game from the 21st century" has a kick function (especially ranked games or open pool ones), are run by admins, have private server options or even skill matchmaking (much less a convoluted, behavior one like what is being suggested here).
So again, if you think this is SOOO easy then explain why it has NEVER been implemented in a single game in history? I am sure all the other coders who've been in the business for years would like insight into how you can achieve success in this if you feel it is an easy task.
@dlchief58 GTA Online did it.
Bad Sports - GTA 5 Guide - IGN
Players who consistently drop from Jobs or perform other unsanctioned mayhem in GTA Online quickly find themselves labeled as Bad
GTA Online also has (free) solo and private lobbies, in addition to a "Passive Mode" that allows players to not be killed by other players.
@thagoochiestman said in What this game is lacking, and how it can be fixed:
@dlchief58 GTA Online did it.
Bad Sports - GTA 5 Guide - IGN
Players who consistently drop from Jobs or perform other unsanctioned mayhem in GTA Online quickly find themselves labeled as Bad
GTA Online also has (free) solo and private lobbies, in addition to a "Passive Mode" that allows players to not be killed by other players.
LOL, nice try and a fail on that one. For your information the matchmaking in that game does NOT do what many are asking here. That is ONLY filtering people who kill others walking down the street and the like - it has no automatic behavior filters like being requested here that remove people based on what has been described as annoying behavior. You only get labeled as being bad sports by quitting jobs, getting voted out of jobs (usually for such behavior as mentioned here), and possibly blowing up others cars to get an automatic trip to the bad sport servers (this is supposed to be a big factor in it, but it never says if this is done by servers or reports to Rockstar). Every thing else "annoying" goes through a report system, NOT matchmaking. So as I said, NO game in the history of games has made a MATCHMAKING protocol that separates players based on "annoying" behavior (it is only done after labeled as such AFTER being reported, not done by the system itself), and I seriously doubt it will ever happen due to the strain it would put on such a system with the parameters that need checking (leading to an inefficient and slow matchmaking protocol).
And for the last time, this game is NOT GTA Online (or any other game for that matter, it charts its own course)! What works (and is needed) in GTA Online is NOT needed in Sea of Thieves. Another thing by enabling Passive Mode in GTA you are locked out of a lot of the higher tiered content.
@thagoochiestman said in What this game is lacking, and how it can be fixed:
@dlchief58 GTA Online did it.
Bad Sports - GTA 5 Guide - IGN
Players who consistently drop from Jobs or perform other unsanctioned mayhem in GTA Online quickly find themselves labeled as Bad
GTA Online also has (free) solo and private lobbies, in addition to a "Passive Mode" that allows players to not be killed by other players.
and maaaanny people hate it and as far as i know killing people online in gta doesn't financially benefit you unless they have a bounty on them
so as far as i know pvp in gta is purely for the fun and not for the gain so a pve mode does not ruin the core mechanics in gta
the games are two different beasts with two completly different goals
sea of thieves is about an adventure as a pirate
gta is about criminally insane psychopathic heisters trying to get rich
