Spawn camping ruins the pvp experience , and multi ship parties

  • PathfinderOtto
    Castaway

    -Spawn camping
    Ok hear me out. I love this game. I enjoy playing it. I enjoy have my freinds on and playing as a crew. Me and my girlfreind play it and we love hunting Skeletons and their ships. I honestly dont mind the pvp. Ship on ship battles are a ton of fun, especially with the cursed Cannon balls being able to give you the edge you may need agaisnt a bigger ship.
    But lets say you manage you get boarded and they drop your anchor (which isnt hard) the proplem then becomes who can get the blunderbust off faster. And there's where it all starts. You go to spawn back in, you get on the ship turn around, Boom. shot and killed, Rendering you useless. Spawn camping a players ship should not be allowed.
    Sure you can scuttle your ship but what?
    You cant defend your loot l, your supplies. Its over. And thats the issue. Ive personally had great fights until that point. If the players remain on your ship as you respawn its all over and thats what is frustrating. Alots of people who asking for the pve just hate that particular idea. One guy with a blunderbust can render a whole crew useless because the spawn camping. Even if the whole crew respawns at the same time the crew who boarded you has the upper hand.

    What i ask is possibly giveing a defending crew a hand. Where it makes spawn camping harder. Perhaps giveing them a longer spawn protection or maybe temporary added health pool so they can fight back instead of just dieing over and over. Dont get me wrong i am all for players dukeing it out on open seas. But spawn camping needs to be stopped some how. Either by punishing those who arent gentleman about fighting or aiding those who are just forced to sit and do nothing.

    -multi ship parties

    This one confuses me. We are allowed to have only 3 freind on our ship. Ok? Well lets just have the other [blank] get another ship. Yeah.. no. That wont happen. Because the chances of landing in the lobby is unlikely. We've sat there trying for 40 minutes trying to get one of the other crew members to land in our lobby.
    Now it wouldnt be the end of the world [i guess] if the game didnt alow for alliance's. Your telling us that we can team up with complete randoms and make freinds with them and the chance to never sail with them again? What? Fleets were a thing people who banned to gether and had many ships. If we are allowed to group with random players why cant we group with our Freind and sail multipul ships together. Or maybe make it so you can have more players on one ship.
    Becsuse haveing a group of 8 freinds who play the game is frustrating and has us considering find new games. Which is sad because we all love this game.
    All we wanna do is play on thr same server and enjoy the game together. Could there be a feature added where if you hit join freinds game it says "this crew is full,would you like to sail another ship with them?" Then it give you the option of what ship and form there add the other Freinds. Or perhaps just increase crew sizes.
    The sloop up to 3 or 4
    -1 gunners
    -1 helmsmen
    -1 or 2 deck hands

    The Brigantine up to 6
    -2 gunners
    -1 helmsmen
    -2 deck hands
    -1 spotted or needed crew slot [as this is the first ship to have very little visibility form the helm]

    The Gallion up to 8
    -4 gunners
    -1 helmsman
    -1 spotter or crew hand as needed
    -2 deck hands

    I understand that balancing my affect this but these ships have so much potential, to see or face the full might of a gallions broad side or then cleverness and resilance of a Sloop would amazing to see.

    As i said i Love this game and so do my freinds but there is just some thing we want to address or suggest to make it more viable to players who either are not huge fans of the pvp and may need a hand. Or Large groups who want to sail with thier freinds.
    I know there will be backlash. There always is. But its things to consider to make the game more interesting and fun. And these are mine and my crews opinions.

    ~ sincerely the crew of the Ivory Sea~

  • Accedi per rispondere
    28
    Post
    16.2k
    Visualizzazioni
  • D4m0R3d
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @pathfinderotto imo oppinion, if you die once your ship should die with you, i mean why should they have to kill you 20 times before your ship finally sinks ya know, if they just let you spawn back and they didnt kill you, fights would litterally just be a battle of attrition, who will run out of planks or cannon balls first? imo that would ruin pvp and i would probs just let myself sink or avoid pvp. i feel like this is how most others feel also and that is why they indeed spawn camp

  • Goedecke Michel
    Marauder

    I think you're wrong. It's not your booty - it's the crew's booty who can ultimately turn the booty into money. Everything else is intermediate states.

    The other mistake is that you think you can - may - must - be allowed to - defend the loot beyond the point where the other crew could take over your ship completely into their own hands, which is exactly the point at which they can spawn kill you at will.

    At this point you just lost. While you find it completely unfair not to be able to defend yourself any longer, I would find it completely unfair to take the other crew's victory or allow you to annoy them any longer.

    You have lost, withdraw from the battlefield and start again.

  • MrBadaBing
    Master
    Insider

    @pathfinderotto I hear your concerns because we have ALL been in this situation , HOWEVER... it is part of the game and will continue to happen, especially if people know you have loot on board. Personally, Yes I board ships, loot their supplies, see what mission they are on and what they have for loot. If i know they have loot, yes I will stay on the boat, keep killing them, while my crew sails their boat close by to sink them with cannons. Once I have all their supplies and loot on board, I move on to the next.

  • Goedecke Michel
    Marauder

    @mrbadabing sagte in Spawn camping ruins the pvp experience , and multi ship parties:

    @pathfinderotto I hear your concerns because we have ALL been in this situation , HOWEVER... it is part of the game and will continue to happen, especially if people know you have loot on board. Personally, Yes I board ships, loot their supplies, see what mission they are on and what they have for loot. If i know they have loot, yes I will stay on the boat, keep killing them, while my crew sails their boat close by to sink them with cannons. Once I have all their supplies and loot on board, I move on to the next.

    In my opinion, there is nothing wrong about it.

  • Cobboobles
    Marauder

    @pathfinderotto

    1. You shouldn't let people on your ship it is very easy to hear people board the ship and which ladder they use.

    2. Spawn killing is extremely nesscary for looting a ship keeping a ship at bay while you turn in, arena weapon kills. The list goes on.

    3. If you are being killed by one guy with a blunder and you're on a gally just spawn in at the same time all four that makes a big difference if you can't kill them at that point scuttle that's what the option is for

    4.scuttle so many people don't realize this option is for that exact reason. Look on the wall in the ferry of the damned says find yourself here often? Use the scuttle option.

  • Cobboobles
    Marauder

    @d4m0r3d sometimes you need to spawn camp because you need to wait for your crew to bring the boat around.

  • UltmateRagnarok
    Master

    @pathfinderotto

    Discussions about spawn-killing have been going on for a long time. Limited immortality and increased health have been proven against in the many ways those features could be abused. Use tactics if you can't win on skill alone - spawn in the whole crew at once, or have someone focus solely on getting off of the ship and onto theirs. As for reasoning, people often spawn-kill in Adventure as an easier way to drain a ship of resources and treasure. In Arena, they'll do it for commendations. In both, it's a good way to stall a ship while your ship either sells the treasure it has or gets away.

    For extra crew, it's always been requested to raise the crew levels on the ships. This was actually tested before launch. It was the most overpowered thing, as no ship would sink due to the sheer number of players capable of doing anything. You won't like to see 'the full might of a galleon's broadside' if that galleon also has spare crew to be constantly steering, assisting with repairs, and angling sails, while still keeping the crew for a boarder and all four cannons. The pirates' abilities and the ships' sizes are designed to work with this intended crew amount. As for other ships in a fleet, many people (including myself) have suggested or requested ways for this to work, and right now it seems like we'll just have to wait for the map to expand before it happens.

  • Lil Fokker
    Master
    Insider

    I brainstormed some 'reduce spawn-camping' ideas:

    1. make the ammo crate accessible to only the crew of the ship.
      Members of the boarding crew would only have 5 rounds per gun / 10 rounds total.
      This will encourage sword combat and could reduce the advantage/dominance of the boarding crew.
      It could also encourage more ship-to-ship combat.

    2. The ability to raise ladders would also reduce boarding; thereby, reduce spawn camping and increase ship-to-ship. This is a huge and simple change that would/could make quite the difference and is exactly what real ships have.

    But, as is, spawn camping is SoT meta; because, realistically, respawning wouldn't be a thing....a boarding pirate would kill those on the ship and that would be it.
    Those who've been killed wouldn't return to the ship...that's how the game already 'helps' the 'boarded'.
    You have the choice to fight back or give up.

    But also, realistically and historically, sailors/pirates weren't as cut throat as we can easily be in this game.
    They didn't board every ship and murder everyone.
    Pirates, if attacking other ships, also had the consequence of death with no respawn.
    How many ships did a pirate let sail by because they couldn't risk attacking?
    In SoT, there's an extremely low level of risk.
    "Oh NO!! The ship sunk!!" - no problem, here's a new one!!
    "Oh NO!! I died!!" - no problem, you're back!!

    The developers have played a psychological trick on its own community.
    There's nothing in the game that says you must attack, must board, must kill and must steal....nothing.
    It's on each individual/crew to behave the way they choose to.

    I don't spawn camp. I rarely ever board another ship.
    But I also don't play as a thief or a pirate.
    I play as a sailor, as an adventurer.
    Just because it's called, Sea of "Theives", that doesn't mean every player is a thief. It just means that there are thieves out there...somewhere...in the world...and one must be vigilant. 😁

    That's also the primary challenge in this game.
    It's just far too predictable anymore.
    The odds of another ship attacking you approach near certainty.
    Which strips the juicy intensity out of this game and replaces it with predictable, paranoid bravado.

    But just remember.....
    "Oh NO!! The ship sunk!!" - no problem, here's a new one!!
    "Oh NO!! I died!!" - no problem, you're back!!

  • Torvol
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    In all honesty I see no problem with spawn camping and its not as simple a task as some make it out. What i will say is that its a genuine and often necessary strategy.

    A ship rolls up on me and is trying to take what I have on my ship. I leave my crew mate to drive and I board there ship. I anchor them, kill them. My buddy shoots some canons in to fill the boat up with water.

    How exactly am I meant to ensure that ship sinks? A gallion can take a while to sink depending on how many holes they have. Do I leave there boat because spawn camping is wrong? That will only allow them to repair and continue to pursue me. The options for me to protect my own loot is to either play a continual game of cat and mouse on the seas (which from experience can take hours), or I can stay on their boat and kill them while they spawn, prevent them from repairing and thus coming after my loot. (not often I see an example from this perspective, thought it be interesting).

    The solution to spawn camping is an issue falls on perhaps another aspect then, perhaps players should have to wait longer before re-spawning so they cant just repair their ship and continue there chase for my hard earned gold.

    If you want someones loot or if you want to defend your loot, 9 times out of 10, spawn camping and killing them before they can make a play is the only way to do it.

    However... spawn camping is not that easy. There are several points in which players can spawn and I only have one set of eyes. If I die, I could be miles away from there ship and thus be unable to return to continue said fight. I have the disadvantage of potentially being outnumbered, having no food to heal etc.

    There are disadvantages to being the one doing that spawn camping and all it takes is one blunder to end my reign of spawn camping. So while in your point players can blunder you while you spawn, depending on where you spawn you could do the same thing to them.

    I do not see spawn killing as an issue at all but a necessary strategy within how the game functions. The solutions to if it were to be fixed I do not think would be welcomed nor wanted. Extend the time of respawning so you cant repair so quickly, or make ships sink a lot faster.

  • UltmateRagnarok
    Master

    @bigtorvol

    Players actually did used to take longer to spawn, but Rare shortened it because of how many people were upset over taking forever to get back and not being able to save their ship. Personally I think that to make ship-to-ship combat more lucrative, the extremely powerful bucket just needs a nerf. Nothing else.

  • Torvol
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @ultmateragnarok I was unaware that spawn rates use to be longer. Must have been before i started playing the game.

    As for the bucket, I do think its a bit odd. You take bucket out of the ocean and its a tiny amount, but I can put half my boats water in a single bucket lol, seems like it needs a fix perhaps.

  • BurnBacon
    Vanguard
    Insider

    I rather have it so, enemy pirates cant use my ammo crate. That help prevent them from reloading their guns. Giving those who do reload in, full ammo and chance to fight back, if not by the Sword.

    It extremely unsporty to camp a ship just to kill a pirate over and over, for what? Take the loot, sink the ship and go. Or just do one of the two.

    Ummm, idk about anyone else, but when I play with randoms and build an alliance, play a few hours. we always friend request, so we can play together later. Maybe not 'Everyone' can but it still together.

    • I have you know, by a SMALL chance. Party of three on a Brig invited our fourth into a Party chat, he started up a Galleon to wait for us to finish our brig...But he happen to join our lobby! So it can happen.
  • CotU42
    Lord
    Insider

    @bigtorvol the reason sea water is so little in comparison, is because at some point people were just swimming next to your ship... throwing the water on your deck to sink you.

    It was quite funny, but a little silly... and not really a good addition to the game.

  • Torvol
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @cotu42 I can confirm I have done this and its quite funny lol trying to sink a gallion with just bucketing water takes some time but me and a crew did it for a bit of a laugh. I do understanding the logic in why its like that now tho.

  • Sicrobite
    Master
    Insider

    @pathfinderotto a dit dans Spawn camping ruins the pvp experience , and multi ship parties :

    "the proplem then becomes who can get the blunderbust off faster."

    What if i dont play with blunderbuss ?

  • Hawk2148
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @fast-bike94 said in Spawn camping ruins the pvp experience , and multi ship parties:

    @pathfinderotto

    1. You shouldn't let people on your ship it is very easy to hear people board the ship and which ladder they use.

    2. Spawn killing is extremely nesscary for looting a ship keeping a ship at bay while you turn in, arena weapon kills. The list goes on.

    3. If you are being killed by one guy with a blunder and you're on a gally just spawn in at the same time all four that makes a big difference if you can't kill them at that point scuttle that's what the option is for

    4.scuttle so many people don't realize this option is for that exact reason. Look on the wall in the ferry of the damned says find yourself here often? Use the scuttle option.

    Scuttling my ship when I have good resources from a play session of 2-3 hours just to start all over again is BS and you know it. You keep getting sank repeatedly and spawnkilled repeatedly because the enemy crew is to damn lazy to go get their own resources like a normal person

  • Cobboobles
    Marauder

    @davidhawk1 think smart not hard the crew that uses other ships for supplies is the smarter crew it is faster and you usually get way more supplies than going to an island or outpost.
    If you don't want to scuttle dont, but I believe that should disqualify your report of the player spawn killing you if you don't even scuttle.

  • Hawk2148
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @fast-bike94 I hope you don't cry about it on the forums or in-game voice when it happens to you so many times that you might as well not even play, then.

  • Cobboobles
    Marauder

    @davidhawk1 I have never had it happen that I can remember I can usually get people off my boat when they try to spawn kill.

  • Xultanis Dragon
    Sailor

    @pathfinderotto

    Your ideas might look good on paper, and you think it would be "fun" but it isn't. You need to further into how your ideas would change the game.

    First lets address the spawn camping. Just because you are on defense doesn't mean you automatically should get a boost to defend AFTER you have practically lost.

    It is VERY hard to get on someones boat in this game. I know it sounds weird, but it is. If you try to board an experienced crew's ship, you are going to die 99/100 times. The only real time you are lucky enough to get on is when the game glitches it, as in, you get shot but the knock back lands you on the boat?? (this used to happen a lot when pistols and snipers did knock back) , or the character/yourself lag and you get on the boat.

    You can hear players coming way ahead of what they are doing.

    So why is boarding such an issue? Easy. Players are being lazy or just don't want to be lookout. Sounds harsh but its true.

    I've been on rando crews where players will ignore a ship 1 island over. No one wants to stay on the boat to be lookout. If someone does do lookout, they are listening to music, or looking up stuff on their phone. What about during fights? During fights you have the problem of the "hero" complex. Everyone wants to be the one who saves the day. Everyone wants to be the one who lands ALL the cannon shots that sinks the enemy ship. So no one watches ladder, EVEN THOUGH, a cannon shot sounds significantly different then a player being shot out of a cannon.

    You can hear it happening. You can see it happening, but no one is guarding the ladder. Again because guarding the ladder is the "grunt" work.

    This games issue is a lot of players don't want to do things that need to be done, only because they feel as if they don't have to.

    "Watch the horizon, check it frequently, especially when you are on solo." - They reply with - Well why should I have to constantly check? I shouldn't have to do that, blah blah blah blah.

    Your added health or increased invulnerability almost guarantees a crews ability to retake their ship when they shouldn't.

    If you are being spawn camped and you see no way out, scuttle your boat. You basically lost. You are wasting YOUR OWN time at this point. Lots of players want to do the "I'm not going to give them the satisfaction." - only you are. The longer you prolong your suffering the happier the spawn camper is. Its like having an entire 5 course meal and the scuttle is just the desert. They are having fun, you are not. Scuttle your boat move on.

    The issue with the increased player count on ships. This is an issue because then it would be impossible to sink ships. Its not going to promote ship to ship battle, its only going to promote invincibility. The numbers are they way they are because it dictates how you spread your crew.

    You wouldn't be able to sink ships AT ALL. This would make it impossible to sink ships without a boarder. Boarders would be mandatory.

    The only way to sink the ship is to dry out its resources. Then another complaint about resource management would come into play and then another complain about how overpowered galleons are would come into play.

    This ships are perfectly balanced right now. The crew numbers are exactly where they should be.

    Sorry broski.

  • Sweltering Nick
    Castaway

    @pathfinderotto This is a game, losing is part of games.

    If you allows yourself to be put in the position where you would get spawn camped... You lose.

    Scuttle ship, or wait until your ship respawns, and start over, move on with your life.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @bigtorvol said in Spawn camping ruins the pvp experience , and multi ship parties:

    As for the bucket, I do think its a bit odd. You take bucket out of the ocean and its a tiny amount, but I can put half my boats water in a single bucket lol, seems like it needs a fix perhaps.

    The fact that you pick up more water than you dump out is by design, for game balance. If you only picked up as much as you dumped out, you'd never be able to save your ship before the on-coming water sank it. I suppose they could slow that down, but then you'd be bucketing forever, and not focusing on other things.

    If you could dump as much water as you pick up, we wouldn't need gunpowder barrels or cannons, and trolling would be at an all time high.

  • Torvol
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @galactic-geek I understand the logic, I just thought it was funny.

  • Chronodusk
    Commander
    Insider

    @pathfinderotto

    Spawning in with a fleet would be unbalanced. It's just a gateway to take over the server and use the already broken alliance mechanic for boosting.

    Fleets should only be a thing when you go out and organically create one with the strangers on the server through emergent encounters.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @chronodusk How is the alliance mechanic broken? I think it works perfectly as intended.

  • ladarius SOT
    Ship Mate

    @pathfinderotto to avoid dying to other players when you jump through the portal from the ferry is immediately moving around bunny hopping and slashing your sword, it works for me. And about a fleet of ships that would be interesting, and really wouldn’t change the game much. People may think it would because you could communicate them via party or discord but I can just ask for my alliances discord or invite them to a party. And if people were worried about having a fleet of friends being op, then they would pretty much be asking for the alliance mechanic to be removed or asking for every ship you pass by be aggressive. The increased crew size isn’t a good idea because then there would be less ships on the server. This would anger the pvp community, well the pvp community that likes large scale battles.

  • ladarius SOT
    Ship Mate

    @xultanis-dragon yeah I agree, i can’t believe I read that whole thing. But also the best way to counter spawn camping is to spawn campyourself.

Accedi per rispondere
28
Post
16.2k
Visualizzazioni
1 su 28