Quality of life for PvP

@l0jk0 This is not a PvP and PvE game... they aren’t distinct and totally separate aspects of the game. It is a PvPvE experience. This doesn’t mean that they have to be balanced so long as they serve the theme of the game - and, they do. PvE gets loot on the seas, and PvP is about theft of that loot or protecting yourself from theft. PvP rewards simply for the sake of PvP do not serve the theme of the game. It’s just not that type of game. It’s not what piracy is about.

I do wish the game rewarded theft more (Xbox has achievements for turning in stolen items... why can’t the game itself have that?), but there shouldn’t be rewards solely for sinking ships and killing players. It’s not that kind of game.

@l0jk0 I understand the frustration of having nothing left to do - especially since it feels like people were misled about what would happen when you become a PL. But, given the nature of the game, I don’t think adding PvP specific rewards and factions is the way to go. Currently, as designed, PvP serves a purpose. This isn’t to say you can’t kill everything you see - it’s kind of a sandbox game in that way, but the incentives are for theft.

As @DutchYankee does, I often steal through stealth (though, I don’t necessarily shy away from a fight). I managed to steal two Captains chests from a Legend’s sloop not long ago and I never fired a shot. I am always trying to find “new and interesting ways” to steal. The key for me is to steal with as little waste of resources and risk to me as possible - like a pirate would.

I am part of that hardcore audience. I have two pirates, one of whom is working utterly, totally solo from day 1. I have a lot invested in the game.

The game needs high level content... definitely... it needs it yesterday. But, it doesn’t need a shift away from the concept of theft to violence for the sake of violence. And, I wish the devs would stop using the “majority aren’t Legends” excuse. They told everyone the game really begins at PL, they should be doing something about that now.

I would like a PvP centric mode that pushes people into more head to head situations but isn't... black wake. Currently the game is just a series of generic, repetitive tasks that without engaging other players the game is... uneventful. This is where the game really fails long term... it wants to be an engaging, emergent gameplay... yet it allows people to approach it like they are trying to level up like its WoW, when there isn't any goal for the leveling/preparation like new areas/raids. There is a disconnect because PvE players are trying to be "productive" keeping their head down and ignoring everyone... then complaining the game doesn't offer anything when you reach PL... it's a sandbox, "End Game" content in a sandbox is counter productive since it should just be content. Lots of content and mechanics.

For instance a PvP mode could be structured by having a fixed number of voyages that everyone shares, and it refreshes once they have all been finished or failed. By doing this people will be forced to cross paths much more and there will be a finite amount of loot at any given time. This will also change the frame of mind people are in when they are doing voyages... because your trying to get loot before someone else does. Obviously no alliances would work in this "mode". I don't think this type of split on the community would really be wildly different, one game type just creates many more points of contention between players while the other lets them go about doing their own thing. The core experience will be very similar, you sail around, doing voyages, and deal with people you cross paths with.

@bran-the-ent said in Quality of life for PvP:

They told everyone the game really begins at PL, they should be doing something about that now.

And? What does that mean? Your filling in the meaning with "end game content" while some people may see it as they are skilled players able to throw down with the best pirates in the game. There is no end game content they can add that won't be burned through by PL's in short order... its a bad way to approach content for a sandbox.

@savagetwinky First off, “end game content” is your term, not mine. I never used it and never meant what I said in that way.

Adding “modes” makes it less a sandbox game. The more the devs put their finger on player choice and curate or dictate player behavior, the less it is a sandbox.

And a game like this isn’t meant to be “burned through.”

@bran-the-ent said in Quality of life for PvP:

@savagetwinky It’s the only way to add content for a sandbox game. Adding “modes” makes it less a sandbox game. The more the devs put their finger on player choice and curate or dictate player behavior, the less it is a sandbox.

End game content is not a way to add content to a sandbox. A sandbox doesn't need to have an "end game". There is no point. Its just gating sandbox mechanics. There is no reason why PL's should have any exclusive mechanics/voyages... it's not a game about reaching the end. Yet people still approach it like that and burn through it because the current voyage system feels similar to other MMO's that are more curated content that you just plow through to reach PL.. for the end game PL content. And even your expecting it... and others... constantly complaining there is "nothing to do". Well any one that says that doesn't understand sandbox games.

I didn't say the mode I proposed was adding to the sandbox either. What it does is adjust a few conditions to force people to engage with each other more often, and turn it more into a competition promoting PvP with more contended loot. Long story short the sandbox that is there is not fun for the more aggressive crowd. Adding an additional mode won't take away from the sandbox either, as the core game loop is effectively the same, pick a voyage, do the voyage, watch out for other players... the difference is the chance you'll encounter other players is much higher... and since they are after the same loot you are.. it'll put players into positions to fight over loot much more often.

This is ultimately a good change for a sandbox. There are no castle building mechanics in this sandbox... the vast majority of the emergent play comes from players interacting with each other, and would still fully take advantage of the sandbox... the current design under utilizes the sandbox and long term it leads to a lot of mediocre game play sessions..

@savagetwinky I never said “end game content.” You did.

While there are some good ideas here, I don't feel they fit into Sea of Thieves at all. Most of them sound too convoluted and would force players to play the game in a particular way. As an example, there are many times I leave an outpost without a voyage. I should be able to do that without automatically being funneled into a "PvP mode." I'm not anti-PvP, but it's also not the point of the game for me or my crew. Sometimes we engage, sometimes we don't. Sometimes we prefer diplomacy. Sometimes we shoot first and ask questions later. Sometimes we avoid encounters.

I love that freedom. I would hate to see all these "modes" and so forth that force us into more PvP encounters. I seem to find plenty of PvP already. For me, the balance is pretty close to perfect. It would feel unnatural if mechanics were implemented to force more PvP interaction. It should always be a choice. Sometimes I simply want to sail and enjoy the seas, including the dangers that go along with them. If I want to draw attention to myself, I can fly the Reaper's Mark. If not, there's no reason in the world I should be forced into PvP situations. It's my choice. That is a big part of the pure magic of this world.

I think the Reaper's Mark is an excellent PvP tool. I welcome more tools of this kind in the sandbox that players can use as they see fit. That preserves the open-ended nature of the game while still providing more options for both PvP and PvE.

I believe Rare is on the right track.

@bran-the-ent said in Quality of life for PvP:

@savagetwinky I never said “end game content.” You did.

PL content or anything gated until you reach a max rank... is conceptually the same thing. I just called it what it is. You are looking for end game content when reaching PL, or high-level content. That is end game content.

@enf0rcer said in Quality of life for PvP:

@savagetwinky said in Quality of life for PvP:

I would like a PvP centric mode that pushes people into more head to head situations but isn't... black wake. Currently the game is just a series of generic, repetitive tasks that without engaging other players the game is... uneventful. This is where the game really fails long term... it wants to be an engaging, emergent gameplay... yet it allows people to approach it like they are trying to level up like its WoW, when there isn't any goal for the leveling/preparation like new areas/raids. There is a disconnect because PvE players are trying to be "productive" keeping their head down and ignoring everyone... then complaining the game doesn't offer anything when you reach PL... it's a sandbox, "End Game" content in a sandbox is counter productive since it should just be content. Lots of content and mechanics.

For instance a PvP mode could be structured by having a fixed number of voyages that everyone shares, and it refreshes once they have all been finished or failed. By doing this people will be forced to cross paths much more and there will be a finite amount of loot at any given time. This will also change the frame of mind people are in when they are doing voyages... because your trying to get loot before someone else does. Obviously no alliances would work in this "mode". I don't think this type of split on the community would really be wildly different, one game type just creates many more points of contention between players while the other lets them go about doing their own thing. The core experience will be very similar, you sail around, doing voyages, and deal with people you cross paths with.

@bran-the-ent said in Quality of life for PvP:

They told everyone the game really begins at PL, they should be doing something about that now.

And? What does that mean? Your filling in the meaning with "end game content" while some people may see it as they are skilled players able to throw down with the best pirates in the game. There is no end game content they can add that won't be burned through by PL's in short order... its a bad way to approach content for a sandbox.

This idea is interesting can you go into a little more detail as to how this would work? Also I think it was Rare problem of offering an end- game to the sandbox. I do belive it to be anthetical to the sandbox nature but there are many elements in this game i find to be counterproductive to it's intent. Also i wouldn't consider this game to be a true sandbox ethier. It's supposed to be a SWAG game.

I'm not sure how it would work. The only thing this mode will effectively change is how voyages are distributed between players. Instead of each crew having their own, the entire server will share them... I haven't thought through how to continue to generate more... it could be as simple as a job posting and when all 3 have been completed 3 more spawn in.

So if you want gold hoarders, you'll be able to pick up 3, and other ships will have the same 3.

Athena's will have to be redesigned but... they need a redesign anyway. They take too much time and leave next to no opening for stealing Athena's chests. If it were up to me, I'd just make it so you're picking up Athena map pieces where any 3 can take you to a chest... so you can steal them from people... but still requires multiple voyages to complete.

edit: And sloops will be banned from this mode.

@genuine-heather said in Quality of life for PvP:

While there are some good ideas here, I don't feel they fit into Sea of Thieves at all. Most of them sound too convoluted and would force players to play the game in a particular way. As an example, there are many times I leave an outpost without a voyage. I should be able to do that without automatically being funneled into a "PvP mode." I'm not anti-PvP, but it's also not the point of the game for me or my crew. Sometimes we engage, sometimes we don't. Sometimes we prefer diplomacy. Sometimes we shoot first and ask questions later. Sometimes we avoid encounters.

I love that freedom. I would hate to see all these "modes" and so forth that force us into more PvP encounters. I seem to find plenty of PvP already. For me, the balance is pretty close to perfect. It would feel unnatural if mechanics were implemented to force more PvP interaction. It should always be a choice. Sometimes I simply want to sail and enjoy the seas, including the dangers that go along with them. If I want to draw attention to myself, I can fly the Reaper's Mark. If not, there's no reason in the world I should be forced into PvP situations. It's my choice. That is a big part of the pure magic of this world.

I think the Reaper's Mark is an excellent PvP tool. I welcome more tools of this kind in the sandbox that players can use as they see fit. That preserves the open-ended nature of the game while still providing more options for both PvP and PvE.

I believe Rare is on the right track.

I completely disagree. The game just doesn't facilitate emergent PvP that well. For people that want to see more action on a galleon... we spend a lot of time... and I mean probably 90% of our time being disappointed by the fights we get into. We are either chasing down one of the many sloops and steamrolling over them... when encountering a galleon there is a 4/5 chance they sink themselves. The vast majority of the time we aren't met with opponents that are willing to put up a fight, it practically sounds like they are playing a different game with the way they are speaking. It reminds me of South Shore in WoW where people get frustrated that PvP happened while they are trying to progress.

For PvPers we need a mode that conditions people that putting up a fight is part of the fun. That has it's own reputation system... and doesn't holistically change the game to a different experience. Just something that can change the way voyages are perceived by the players. Its the difference between looking at it like capture the flag and a quest to farm 10 flags, opponents are part of one, the other they are looked at like griefers stopping your progression.

@l0jk0 said in Quality of life for PvP:

@genuine-heather @Admiral-RRRSole @SavageTwinky @DutchYankee

I want to thank all of you for the great replies toward my post, means a lot.

@Genuine-Heather My PvP mode idea is not meant to confuse people it's probably meant for a small group (I have no idea how many people feel the way I do). It's not meant to carry over into the current system they have now, honestly I have no problem with the seas as they are now.
I was actually unaware of the new reapers mark flag I think that's really cool much needed for that aspect of the game. I'm just talking about a mode for folks who have probably uninstalled the game already (which makes me sad). I love PvP, and in this game especially, it's so unique. The game has room for so many additions to include everyone small groups and large. I'm all about balance and fair play which is why I note in my original post that I wouldn't want to cross the two play styles in the original SoT world.
A simple example is WoW, I don't PvP in WoW I hate it. I do believe that it needs it's place because many love it. Not a majority but it's still a community and at one time was a short lived E-sport.
I come from a competitive/pro counter-strike 1.6 background, I'm and old boy now @ 33 but I like to see where I stand vs the best.

I just hope people continue to talk about this and maybe some day down the line it's a thing, if I'm a part of it at that time, wonderful. If not that's fine too, I have no stake in this game other than my many hours. Just a big fan who wanted to see it succeed very far into the future.

Thanks again for all the replies and input, it's great to have discussions like this.

I think that's a bad idea, the PvP in this game is fun because its world PvP at its greatest... until most of the people you fight isn't or doesn't want to engage in PvP... Having a separate arena based mode is counterproductive to the fun emergent sandbox and the ridiculous chaos it creates.

@l0jk0 said in Quality of life for PvP:

@savagetwinky Sorry I might have worded something incorrectly, I still love world PvP in the game. I would never want to take anything away from that.

So your more looking at the bells and whistles of PvP rewards not so much WoW's arena. I still dislike the idea. I don't want PvP to be another grind... I just want a mode that engages people in the world PvP more.

@l0jk0 said in Quality of life for PvP:

@savagetwinky Yeah I mean maybe I wasn't 100% clear. I have been trying to reach out to many forums and get opinions and not to sound like a defeatist but I kind of assumed I would be met with a lot of negative feedback. It's probably my fault because I created this post yesterday after almost uninstalling. I kept thinking about my hours spent and money spend on a game I love.

I DO want the world PvP to be better 100% I want that

I ALSO want to have a place for people who just want PvP and for their to be commendations/cosmetics/standings/rank. The only real controversial idea I had about this particular mode was have guns that do more than the base damage. Now it could be interesting to have item's that have an incredible stat with a drawback added, this happened in TF2 with some items and it happens in Path of Exile.
This is the stuff I would not want to see be in the normal Sea of Thieves world and should stay in the alternate mode only. I do think having the horizontal items that don't impact stats at all should be able to be worn in the normal Sea of Thieves world.

Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

I think rank is never going to be a think since world PvP ranking is kind of meaningless. At least there is no way to have a match with an appropriate win/loss ratio... so any "ranks" will just be weighted to people that play the most.

And having a separate game mode would have all the cosmetics linked with that mode so you wouldn't need any exclusive rewards if the rewards are already exclusive.

If you're proposing an arena side-mode, again I'm against that as it takes development away from the sandbox. I want a separate mode that facilitates PvP in the sandbox, not an arena. I'd play black wake for that.

@l0jk0 said in Quality of life for PvP:

@savagetwinky Yeah I mean I agree, I'd take anything over nothing 100%. This post by me was triggered due to my almost uninstalling last night. Realized how much I've invested and thought I'd make a post about it. I just hope people keep talking about it, and something happens for people who enjoy this part of the game more than the other parts.

I just wanted to push my agenda and whatever comes out even if it's just discussion on the matter I'm happy. I've never made a post before so it was nice having all these opinions and thoughts come out. Making everyone happy is a no win battle and I know that. Just want more people to be happy, and not have the uninstalling feeling like me.

Considering how much interest there was in this game, especially geared towards PvP, from twitch streamers and how quickly they dropped it because of how few and far between ship fights were... Rare probably knows the PvP crowd isn't happy. I think this game is in the middle of an identity crisis and both sides of people end up being unhappy.

I don't want a PvE only server, I don't think it'll work, but for the more aggressive people, we need a place to play that facilitates that in the context of the sandbox.

Sea of Thieves is not a PvP or PvE specific game. It just happens to have elements of what players identify as such because of other games.

If you want to look at it through a PvP lens, PvP is everywhere. Every player you meet on an island or ship you pass on the sea is an opportunity to “PvP”. Does that contact always mean the other pirate is looking for a fight? No it does not, but that does not mean “PvP” does not take place. That opportunity and risk is the very core of gameplay in Sea of Thieves and should be expected.

It is all about the pirate you want to be. If you want to attack, betray, deceive, and steal from other players, you can do it and do it as much as you want to. Yes many may want the game to be a “Sea of Friends” instead a Sea of Thieves. It can actually be both. You are in control of the style and fun to be had. Players would have much smoother sailing if they just realize that is all most players want and are doing.

Adding more defined incentives and modes that push the game and its players in specific directions will take away the heart of what makes the Seas of Thieves the game it is. It would just make it another flavor of the flood of games that do that.

PvP ranks, number of player kills or player ships sunk, and the like is not needed to make one a good pirate. The tales you and your crew make sailing together is what will truly make you the legend you become.

@x-crowheart-x said in Quality of life for PvP:

Sea of Thieves is not a PvP or PvE specific game. It just happens to have elements of what players identify as such because of other games.

If you want to look at it through a PvP lens, PvP is everywhere. Every player you meet on an island or ship you pass on the sea is an opportunity to “PvP”. Does that contact always mean the other pirate is looking for a fight? No it does not, but that does not mean “PvP” does not take place. That opportunity and risk is the very core of gameplay in Sea of Thieves and should be expected.

It is all about the pirate you want to be. If you want to attack, betray, deceive, and steal from other players, you can do it and do it as much as you want to. Yes many may want the game to be a “Sea of Friends” instead a Sea of Thieves. It can actually be both. You are in control of the style and fun to be had. Players would have much smoother sailing if they just realize that is all most players want and are doing.

Adding more defined incentives and modes that push the game and its players in specific directions will take away the heart of what makes the Seas of Thieves the game it is. It would just make it another flavor of the flood of games that do that.

PvP ranks, number of player kills or player ships sunk, and the like is not needed to make one a good pirate. The tales you and your crew make sailing together is what will truly make you the legend you become.

Well said. I couldn't agree more.

@savagetwinky said in Quality of life for PvP:

@genuine-heather said in Quality of life for PvP:

While there are some good ideas here, I don't feel they fit into Sea of Thieves at all. Most of them sound too convoluted and would force players to play the game in a particular way. As an example, there are many times I leave an outpost without a voyage. I should be able to do that without automatically being funneled into a "PvP mode." I'm not anti-PvP, but it's also not the point of the game for me or my crew. Sometimes we engage, sometimes we don't. Sometimes we prefer diplomacy. Sometimes we shoot first and ask questions later. Sometimes we avoid encounters.

I love that freedom. I would hate to see all these "modes" and so forth that force us into more PvP encounters. I seem to find plenty of PvP already. For me, the balance is pretty close to perfect. It would feel unnatural if mechanics were implemented to force more PvP interaction. It should always be a choice. Sometimes I simply want to sail and enjoy the seas, including the dangers that go along with them. If I want to draw attention to myself, I can fly the Reaper's Mark. If not, there's no reason in the world I should be forced into PvP situations. It's my choice. That is a big part of the pure magic of this world.

I think the Reaper's Mark is an excellent PvP tool. I welcome more tools of this kind in the sandbox that players can use as they see fit. That preserves the open-ended nature of the game while still providing more options for both PvP and PvE.

I believe Rare is on the right track.

I completely disagree. The game just doesn't facilitate emergent PvP that well. For people that want to see more action on a galleon... we spend a lot of time... and I mean probably 90% of our time being disappointed by the fights we get into. We are either chasing down one of the many sloops and steamrolling over them... when encountering a galleon there is a 4/5 chance they sink themselves. The vast majority of the time we aren't met with opponents that are willing to put up a fight, it practically sounds like they are playing a different game with the way they are speaking. It reminds me of South Shore in WoW where people get frustrated that PvP happened while they are trying to progress.

For PvPers we need a mode that conditions people that putting up a fight is part of the fun. That has it's own reputation system... and doesn't holistically change the game to a different experience. Just something that can change the way voyages are perceived by the players. Its the difference between looking at it like capture the flag and a quest to farm 10 flags, opponents are part of one, the other they are looked at like griefers stopping your progression.

It sounds to me like what you really want is a completely different game. You want to change the open nature of Sea of Thieves to force more PvP situations. But it's not that game. PvP happens organically in this game, and that's important to its open-ended feel. You can't really force the players of any game to play the way you want them to. Lots of people play Sea of Thieves mostly for the PvE content, avoiding conflict as much as possible. Others play exclusively for the PvP, scouring the seas for worthy opponents. Then there are others somewhere in between, who enjoy both aspects of the game. I suspect the majority of players fall into the latter group, especially after they've played a while. The point is, people play for different reasons and with different expectations. If you implement game mechanics designed to funnel players into PvP situations, you fundamentally change the nature of the game. Sea of Thieves is not that game. A large part of the magic of Sea of Thieves is its open-ended nature. You plop into the game with a ship and a few supplies. After that, anything is possible. Change that and you destroy the game.

@genuine-heather said in Quality of life for PvP:

@savagetwinky said in Quality of life for PvP:

@genuine-heather said in Quality of life for PvP:

While there are some good ideas here, I don't feel they fit into Sea of Thieves at all. Most of them sound too convoluted and would force players to play the game in a particular way. As an example, there are many times I leave an outpost without a voyage. I should be able to do that without automatically being funneled into a "PvP mode." I'm not anti-PvP, but it's also not the point of the game for me or my crew. Sometimes we engage, sometimes we don't. Sometimes we prefer diplomacy. Sometimes we shoot first and ask questions later. Sometimes we avoid encounters.

I love that freedom. I would hate to see all these "modes" and so forth that force us into more PvP encounters. I seem to find plenty of PvP already. For me, the balance is pretty close to perfect. It would feel unnatural if mechanics were implemented to force more PvP interaction. It should always be a choice. Sometimes I simply want to sail and enjoy the seas, including the dangers that go along with them. If I want to draw attention to myself, I can fly the Reaper's Mark. If not, there's no reason in the world I should be forced into PvP situations. It's my choice. That is a big part of the pure magic of this world.

I think the Reaper's Mark is an excellent PvP tool. I welcome more tools of this kind in the sandbox that players can use as they see fit. That preserves the open-ended nature of the game while still providing more options for both PvP and PvE.

I believe Rare is on the right track.

I completely disagree. The game just doesn't facilitate emergent PvP that well. For people that want to see more action on a galleon... we spend a lot of time... and I mean probably 90% of our time being disappointed by the fights we get into. We are either chasing down one of the many sloops and steamrolling over them... when encountering a galleon there is a 4/5 chance they sink themselves. The vast majority of the time we aren't met with opponents that are willing to put up a fight, it practically sounds like they are playing a different game with the way they are speaking. It reminds me of South Shore in WoW where people get frustrated that PvP happened while they are trying to progress.

For PvPers we need a mode that conditions people that putting up a fight is part of the fun. That has it's own reputation system... and doesn't holistically change the game to a different experience. Just something that can change the way voyages are perceived by the players. Its the difference between looking at it like capture the flag and a quest to farm 10 flags, opponents are part of one, the other they are looked at like griefers stopping your progression.

It sounds to me like what you really want is a completely different game. You want to change the open nature of Sea of Thieves to force more PvP situations. But it's not that game. PvP happens organically in this game, and that's important to its open-ended feel. You can't really force the players of any game to play the way you want them to. Lots of people play Sea of Thieves mostly for the PvE content, avoiding conflict as much as possible. Others play exclusively for the PvP, scouring the seas for worthy opponents. Then there are others somewhere in between, who enjoy both aspects of the game. I suspect the majority of players fall into the latter group, especially after they've played a while. The point is, people play for different reasons and with different expectations. If you implement game mechanics designed to funnel players into PvP situations, you fundamentally change the nature of the game. Sea of Thieves is not that game. A large part of the magic of Sea of Thieves is its open-ended nature. You plop into the game with a ship and a few supplies. After that, anything is possible. Change that and you destroy the game.

No I don't want a completely different game. As I pointed out my idea stays entirely in the same framework just directing people to the same targets but still optionally able to avoid each other. The difference is the probability of interacting with others is much higher.

As I explained already, PvP happens rarely and most people are in the frame of mind to enjoy it. A lot of the open-ended nature falls flat when people are focused on plowing through fairly deterministic fetch quests. There isn't much in the way of emergent play without the players interacting with each other.

@savagetwinky said in Quality of life for PvP:

@bran-the-ent said in Quality of life for PvP:

@savagetwinky I never said “end game content.” You did.

PL content or anything gated until you reach a max rank... is conceptually the same thing. I just called it what it is. You are looking for end game content when reaching PL, or high-level content. That is end game content.

Sigh. Not in a game as service which has no foreseeable end. It may be mid-game content and, indeed, the devs said early on that PL is where the game truly begins. My point was that it feels like the end of the game because there’s no more content there. So, don’t distort what I said.

@l0jk0 Cudos to you mate, this is the first PvP post that I actually want to contribute to rather than defend the game and the roll PvP has.

You have heard it before but I have to say it, rewarding PvP for PvPers is dangerous and needs to be done right. Otherwise the game becomes toxic. Already is toxic some days as you have so many streamers that love showing off what hotshots they are at PvP in the game and make it look cool.

I have always felt that victory in PvP is reward enough. However I will say that something does need to be done. The reaper flag is a start, but needs time to catch wind. Once the event is over, hopefully it will be used for ways to encourage interaction, whether that is PvP or not will be up to the individual flying the flag. I do like @DutchYankee idea about bounties. That would certainly increase PvP and might inspire those people that usually avoid it an incentive to get involved.

The best way to figure out how to encourage more PvP is to get to the bottom of why people avoid it. In my humble opinion right now the biggest issues you have with PvP are the following.

• Takes time to stock a ship, and once stocked taking risks means potentially losing said boat and time. And starting over to stock a ship again sucks.
• Naval combat awareness and how to use the tools available is lacking for most players. Everyone knows how to shoot a canon, but into the wind at speed, that is challenging and too many simply haven't done this enough to gain skills to do it successfully.
• Crates. As people are focused on Athena or merchants quests, the loss of crates is potentially devastating. With no way to obtain/buy more crates to finish the quest, the risk is sometimes too high. Especially for Athena with the amount of time needed to dedicate to finish one.
• Fear of toxic players or just players that mock you or insult you. A great number of PvP players try and get you to fight back by mocking you or insulting you. And the people that concentrate on PvE just are here to relax. They don't want that.
• A large number of people are here to escape stress. And PvP can be stressful, where as the PvE, the graphics and flow of the game can be quite peaceful if you avoid PvP.
• This is not meant as a jab at PC players, but there is a small but discernible disparage between PC players and console players. And because of this, people don't want to participate because of a perceived advantage. Rare bumped up the sensitivity on game pads, but there is still advantages on a PC. If Rare could some how cap everyone to the same speeds then this issue becomes a mute point. I would also add that most PvE people automatically assume you are a PC player if you are coming at them for PvP. AGAIN, this is not an attack on PC players. Just a perception that is out there, and the known fact there is some slight advantages.
• And last on my list would be skill. People don't have any way of gaining experience in PvP outside of direct PvP, unlike many other games where you have a training area, or other type of way of gaining that experience. And while you are still pushing towards PL or Athena levels, taking a side track to PvP is more inconvenient than not, at least until you become bored with chasing the Athena stuff (like me).

This is my list, I welcome any additions to this list. But I do think if you address most of these items in some way, then you will see PvP.

@nofears-fun

To all your cross platform points ... fortnite is everything you talk about and it is wildly successful with lots of players playing it. The future is cross platform, get used to it.

People do not avoid pvp, they quit the game because there is no reason to pvp. Pvp is about competition and this game wants nothing to do with competition. It also has no incentive to actually be any good at the game, so what if you get sunk it is just a few items lost and you can just hop servers. If you were actually smart and wanted to get to pl or athenas 10 you join an alliance server and grind away without ever pvping once.

@droper666 I think you are missing the point of this game then. It is not solely a PvP game, and the fact that the vast majority of people don't want any part of PvP shows that. I am just bringing up reasons I have heard, or reasons I have used in the past as to why people in SoT don't want to participate in it.

As for cross platform, I am all for it. Just need to balance it somehow as this is not designed as a competitive game.

@bran-the-ent said in Quality of life for PvP:

@savagetwinky said in Quality of life for PvP:

@bran-the-ent said in Quality of life for PvP:

@savagetwinky I never said “end game content.” You did.

PL content or anything gated until you reach a max rank... is conceptually the same thing. I just called it what it is. You are looking for end game content when reaching PL, or high-level content. That is end game content.

Sigh. Not in a game as service which has no foreseeable end. It may be mid-game content and, indeed, the devs said early on that PL is where the game truly begins. My point was that it feels like the end of the game because there’s no more content there. So, don’t distort what I said.

Based on what? There many games as a service that has a single or handful of game modes that just rolls in new cosmetics on a regular basis... like fort nite... which is probably one of the more profitable games as a service you can find. In fact, unless you're talking about an actual MMO of some sort with complex progression most games don't gate content or change much over time. This game is a sandbox so it has to be more about increasing players interact with each other to make it engaging.

And I'm not distorting what you said. You specifically said high-level content. Which is synonymous with end game content. There isn't much of a difference when you gate content to the late or end of the game.