PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop

@rk1-turbulence said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

@porkchop87 No, I meant noone's forcing you as in you're free to go do something else with your time while the rest of us enjoy the co-op stuff instead of whining and trying to have it removed.

You ARE forced to team with others if you want to EXPERIENCE the event and telling players they aren't forced makes you look less intelligent than I know you are.

how many of you will enjoy the co-op event when you can't experience it?

Players are NOT asking for removal of the weekly events but the option to be able to experience them alone because so many missed out on THD due to the need of 5th player and it's going to be the same with the thrones and with what little content the game has in it. (Believe me I've experienced it all. I'm PL and Athena's fortune 10) Rare shouldn't lock players out of content.

If YOU want to team. then YOU can team. You can meet other Pirates and talk to them instead of unloading cannons. Or do you need a carrot dangled in front of you to team?

Check out my game clips and screen shots it's filled with many friendly interactions. I've given players skull fort skulls and chests ands well as loot I've accumulated on legendary voyages.

I've teamed on forts and even legendary voyages! and that felt great. because I knew these were players teaming from their own free will. not because we shared a common goal.

it shouldn't be forced upon players that can't find other Pirates to team.

I responded to this in another post. a Pirate was defending THD needing a fifth player in these threads until they later experienced the frustration of not being able to find a helpful pirate crew to help them with thrones and they then made a thread about how much of a bad idea it was to base who gets to play the little content they're giving us on luck!

You and many others are telling players "if you can't find a random crew to help you, too bad! You don't get to experience the content." and that is wrong.

I truly hope this happens to you and when it does. I hope players on the forums tell you. "You aren't forced to play the event. Go do something else."

Weekly events are what draws players in and keeps themplaying but so far all I've seen in these threads are players leaving because of it.

the exclusives are to show players you were there during that time. NOT to say, "I got lucky and met a crew willing to help." and all those players are seeing other players with the exclusives they were CHEATED out of obtaining due to this ridiculous forced co-op will grow to resent the game.

Most players cheated through the thrones out of fear of being left behind. I played them six times to help out my large crew and each time I ran into other pirate crews who had not had the titles or the clothing and they knew exactly where to park their boat before even reaching the island and searching.

Oops! Accidently misclicked.

So many people complained about the "kill on sight" attitude players had. Getting people to work together is a common method for curbing hostility and aggressive behavior between groups. I've noticed a difference over the last couple of weeks. I do not know if this was their intent, but making people work together often diffuses tension and may even result in (gasp!) friendships.

No one is forcing anyone to participate. If you want to keep to yourself, great. Just don't complain your results are inferior to people who decide to work with others. If you want to improve your results then be willing to do more. They do not have to keep the bar low just to include solo players.

@ghostpaw said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

So many people complained about the "kill on sight" attitude players had. Getting people to work together is a common method for curbing hostility and aggressive behavior between groups. I've noticed a difference over the last couple of weeks. I do not know if this was their intent, but making people work together often diffuses tension and may even result in (gasp!) friendships.

No one is forcing anyone to participate. If you want to keep to yourself, great. Just don't complain your results are inferior to people who decide to work with others. If you want to improve your results then be willing to do more. They do not have to keep the bar low just to include solo players.

These players are willing to co-op with other players but are unable to if they do not play the DLC day one, two or maybe day three?

Why does co-op have to be forced? If the player base is becoming more friendly like you are suggesting, why can't players with hearing difficulty or speech impediments or social anxiety or learning difficultys and the kids who arent allowed to use a mic experience the event too? what if players are just unlucky and can't find another pirate willing to help due to coming into the dlc late?

Xbox doesn't even have communication. at least if you're on a PC you can write but on an Xbox you have to use your mic and hope they hear you when most players use Discord/party chat. and the players that can't use a mic? too bad for them, right?

It is never a good idea to cut content out of a game for ANY percentage of players when the game has so little content to begin with and it's NOT cutting it from solo players. many galleons missed out too.

@wulvfeyn said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

@bathrobe-dave said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

@wulvfeyn said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

@porkchop87 said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

@rk1-turbulence Sorry if my whining is offending you, I meant no offense. But if they make it optional, then more people would be happy about it. Don't make it mandatory, that is simply my point.

Its not mandatory...they are optional quests that are not required for end game. If you want the items you have to play by the rules. I dont like the idea of specific ideals being catered to just because someone doesn't want to play ball. Just my 2 cents

And I think the people who are having less than ideal experiences are saying they'd like to participate in the event and don't see why the biggest and only challenge in the event is finding another crew willing to help you. When finding another person willing to help you takes 10x as long as the actual event goals, then there is something inherently wrong.

I agree but not everyone has such harrowing experiences...i found someone immediately and there are lots of people who have completed it...so where does the problem lie? It wouldnt be a challenge or even desirable if everyone could have everything whenever they wanted it.

Yeah buddy, me too- on the first day of both events because I knew I'd have issues after the first couple days.

It wouldnt be a challenge or even desirable if everyone could have everything whenever they wanted it.

Oh come on! The issue most people have with this event is WILLING to cooperate with other crews but being UNABLE to find one willing to cooperate with THEM. The challenge should be trying to stick the landing at Marauder's arch, not finding another crew willing to help. There's nothing enjoyable about the worst case scenario of never being able to find someone willing to help in the several hours a night you may have to play the game.

@dlchief58 said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

@porkchop87 said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

@rk1-turbulence Sorry if my whining is offending you, I meant no offense. But if they make it optional, then more people would be happy about it. Don't make it mandatory, that is simply my point.

LOL, they ARE optional...no one is making you do them. You have the OPTION of finding others to complete the OPTIONAL event or you can pass and play as you normally do.

Maybe you should stop being obtuse about the verbiage. People aren't upset that they have to play with other people. They're upset because lately it has been taking several hours over several nights and not finding anyone willing to help them. These people want to participate in the event. I'm sure they're even willing to cooperate with other crews- the problem is the farther away from DAY 1 of the event you get, the less and less likely you're able to find a crew willing to help you finish the event.

BECAUSE THEY TOO HAVE THE OPTION OF TELLING YOU THEY'VE ALREADY DONE THIS EVENT AND DON'T WANT TO SPEND HOURS DOING IT FOR NO PERSONAL GAIN.

Strange. I was just on not long ago and was invited to join a galleon and sloop working through it. I let them know I'd already completed it but thanked them. Perhaps I should purchase a lottery ticket today since the impossible simply fell into my lap. A similar thing happened yesterday too now that I think about it.

It Couldn’t Be Done
By Edgar Albert Guest

Somebody said that it couldn’t be done,
But, he with a chuckle replied
That "maybe it couldn’t," but he would be one
Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried.
So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin
On his face. If he worried he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn’t be done, and he did it.

Somebody scoffed: "Oh, you’ll never do that;
At least no one has done it";
But he took off his coat and he took off his hat,
And the first thing we knew he’d begun it.
With a lift of his chin and a bit of a grin,
Without any doubting or quiddit,
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn’t be done, and he did it.

There are thousands to tell you it cannot be done,
There are thousands to prophesy failure;
There are thousands to point out to you one by one,
The dangers that wait to assail you.
But just buckle it in with a bit of a grin,
Just take off your coat and go to it;
Just start to sing as you tackle the thing
That "couldn’t be done," and you’ll do it.

@ghostpaw said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

Strange. I was just on not long ago and was invited to join a galleon and sloop working through it. I let them know I'd already completed it but thanked them. Perhaps I should purchase a lottery ticket today since the impossible simply fell into my lap. A similar thing happened yesterday too now that I think about it.

Oh it can be done, my anecdotal little philosopher, but your experience is not like other's and where you found it not looking for it- many people have spent all evenings actively searching for and pursuing what you could have had 3 times over. What people want, is for a way to make that better, because there is nothing FUN about sailing for hours and hours over multiple days begging players to help YOU when they have no incentive to do so.

@ath3na-cr33d said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

Why does co-op have to be forced?

It isn't. You can get all the outfits, or you can purchase gold & rep without talking to another soul. You can progress and participate without interacting with anyone. You can even get into the bigger chairs without anyone else. You just don't get the extra coin... but like you said earlier in the thread "Or do you need a carrot dangled in front of you"

@ath3na-cr33d said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

If the player base is becoming more friendly like you are suggesting, why can't players with hearing difficulty or speech impediments or social anxiety or learning difficultys and the kids who arent allowed to use a mic experience the event too?

And what about players with hand motor issues, or ones that have trouble seeing the screen clearly, or people with a phobia for chairs... you are really grasping here.

@ghostpaw said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

@ath3na-cr33d said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

Why does co-op have to be forced?

It isn't. You can get all the outfits, or you can purchase gold & rep without talking to another soul. You can progress and participate without interacting with anyone. You can even get into the bigger chairs without anyone else. You just don't get the extra coin... but like you said earlier in the thread "Or do you need a carrot dangled in front of you"

The hungering deep.. players couldn't experience that as well as the titles in the throne event not the "extra." coin which can also be used for reputation and money which many players need.

@ath3na-cr33d said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

If the player base is becoming more friendly like you are suggesting, why can't players with hearing difficulty or speech impediments or social anxiety or learning difficultys and the kids who arent allowed to use a mic experience the event too?

And what about players with hand motor issues, or ones that have trouble seeing the screen clearly, or people with a phobia for chairs... you are really grasping here.

I would hardly say acknowledgeing a percentage of RARE's player base is grasping at straws? :(

@bathrobe-dave said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

Oh it can be done, my anecdotal little philosopher, but your experience is not like other's and where you found it not looking for it- many people have spent all evenings actively searching for and pursuing what you could have had 3 times over. What people want, is for a way to make that better, because there is nothing FUN about sailing for hours and hours over multiple days begging players to help YOU when they have no incentive to do so.

Funny, you minimize my experience as atypical, but claim your own is widespread. You call us out for using anecdotal evidence; care to share your source of data? I was addressing the claims that it is not possible after the first few days of the event. Here it is a week later and I am still tripping into these opportunities. It just takes one white crow, right?

@genuine-heather said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

@bathrobe-dave said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

BECAUSE THEY TOO HAVE THE OPTION OF TELLING YOU THEY'VE ALREADY DONE THIS EVENT AND DON'T WANT TO SPEND HOURS DOING IT FOR NO PERSONAL GAIN.

Sure, everybody has that option. But it doesn't take "hours" by any measure. I helped a couple guys get it done in under an hour the other day.

Of course, completely anecdotal. It completely depends on how choppy the waves are, where you found the crew and how skilled the crew(s) are.

And the "personal gain" is the satisfaction of knowing you've helped someone else.

Yeah, I've tried convincing other people based on the merit that it would give them the warm fuzzies. It didn't really work out.

Also, every time I've gone out of my way to help others like this, they've always given me chests and other loot they picked up along the way.

That's really nice that you're willing to help for low or no cost. That's not the general experience, however, and especially towards the middle-end of event.

Plus, they've helped me get accomplishments you can only get with other players. There are plenty of reasons for helping others.

Of course, I don't think anyone is saying there aren't reasons to help others.

Granted, not everyone will see it that way, but some surely do.

The problem is the time it takes to find those people is significantly longer than the time it takes to do the event for many.

@bathrobe-dave Again, you keep dismissing other people's experience as anecdotal and yet you speak as if your own is widespread. Unless Rare released some stats somewhere that you can source, I think you might do well to acknowledge your own assumptions are based on anecdotal evidence as well.

@ghostpaw said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

@bathrobe-dave said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

Oh it can be done, my anecdotal little philosopher, but your experience is not like other's and where you found it not looking for it- many people have spent all evenings actively searching for and pursuing what you could have had 3 times over. What people want, is for a way to make that better, because there is nothing FUN about sailing for hours and hours over multiple days begging players to help YOU when they have no incentive to do so.

Funny, you minimize my experience as atypical, but claim your own is widespread. Your source of data? I was addressing the claims that it is not possible after the first few days of the event. Here it is a week later and I am still tripping into these opportunities. It just takes one white crow, right?

I can see where my wording might be interpreted as such, but my intent was to say that your experience is not the same as everyone else's. Not in the sense that everyone else has a different experience than you, but rather that there are plenty out there that have troubles finding people willing to help.

The only degree that I minimize your experience is to state that just because you've been invited to help others with thrones doesn't help the people who are spending a great many hours and days with no luck. For something as minimal as the Thrones event is, it makes no sense that the most challenging part is finding another crew to help you.

These are not my experiences. I get these events completed as close to launch as possible, where my odds of encountering people still needing to do the quest are at it's greatest. That doesn't mean that the answer to everyone's problems should be to do the quests on day one though. The fundamental flaw in how the requirements are designed should be addressed, whether it be incentives for doing it multiple times or perhaps not to saddlebag a simple event like this with a cooperative requirement.

@genuine-heather said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

@bathrobe-dave I do understand your frustration, and I sympathize. But this is how the event was designed. It's working as intended. As the old saying goes, you can't please everyone. I personally enjoyed it. I thought the Hungering Deep was more engaging and exciting, but that was a bigger event with bigger rewards. This is just a "weekly" thing. It's not required to complete.

It's not my frustration though, I complete these events on day 1 to avoid these exact issues.

That's how the event was designed, is exactly my point and why I'm voicing the feedback. It shouldn't be increasingly difficult for the playerbase to complete the event as the two weeks progress for the simple lack of playerbase willing to do the event with you and no way to know if anyone on your server is even willing to do so without sailing around meeting people only to be turned down.

@ghostpaw said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

@bathrobe-dave Again, you keep dismissing other people's experience as anecdotal and yet you speak as if your own is widespread. Unless Rare released some stats somewhere that you can source, I think you might do well to acknowledge your own assumptions are based on anecdotal evidence as well.

Of course, it is all anecdotal. I did not state "my experience" is widespread, just that it exists, and shouldn't be. There is never a case in my mind where it should be acceptable for anyone wanting to do this quest to not be able to simply because they were unable to find a crew over several hours, several sessions. Not a majority, not a minority, not widespread, not isolated, NOT EVER.

@dlchief58 said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

@bathrobe-dave said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

@dlchief58 said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

@porkchop87 said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

@rk1-turbulence Sorry if my whining is offending you, I meant no offense. But if they make it optional, then more people would be happy about it. Don't make it mandatory, that is simply my point.

LOL, they ARE optional...no one is making you do them. You have the OPTION of finding others to complete the OPTIONAL event or you can pass and play as you normally do.

Maybe you should stop being obtuse about the verbiage. People aren't upset that they have to play with other people. They're upset because lately it has been taking several hours over several nights and not finding anyone willing to help them. These people want to participate in the event. I'm sure they're even willing to cooperate with other crews- the problem is the farther away from DAY 1 of the event you get, the less and less likely you're able to find a crew willing to help you finish the event.

BECAUSE THEY TOO HAVE THE OPTION OF TELLING YOU THEY'VE ALREADY DONE THIS EVENT AND DON'T WANT TO SPEND HOURS DOING IT FOR NO PERSONAL GAIN.

Then the OP needs to stop with saying this is MANDATORY, as it is an OPTIONAL event. Nothing from the event is required to progress in the game, all items are available to purchase, all they are missing out on is a small bit of coin. It is NOT hard to find someone if you use the available tools, even after the event is live for a few days.

Do you guys go onto the Destiny forums and demand they make Raids available for a single player? That is about what this amounts to, a sense of entitlement.

OP wants to complete the event before time is up. Only reason OP can't is OP is spending hours upon hours not finding a willing crew to help- which is only required because Rare coded it that way assuming everyone would be all sunshine and f***s with helping everyone the entire two weeks. It's flawed, and OP just wants that addressed for future events.

It's unreasonable for you to essentially say tough luck and that it is optional. All things in the game are optional, but we want to play the game and complete the events. OP also wanted to share that the most difficult part of this quest was finding someone willing to help- which seems to not really fit what Rare was intending to do here.

It's about telling Rare how to make something not as fun, more fun. There's nothing fun about requiring people late in the event to potentially spend hours upon hours looking for someone nice enough to help.

I don't play Destiny.

@dlchief58 Perhaps I am the one misunderstanding, but I am pretty sure the 'mandatory' part of this is in regards to the grouping with another crew, not saying that event itself is mandatory to do.

Also, comparing this to Destiny is comparing vastly different games. Different activities, different amounts of activities, and different progression systems. A chair on a ridge does not equal a raid, IMHO.

In SoT, being a game criticized by players and media, for lack of content, perhaps gating new content (albeit a small amount) behind a mechanic that makes it difficult for some may not be the best approach.

I don't mind grouping with other crews, but it can be a pain, and a time-sink to do so. My wife and I had a great time with Meg, and added a few new friends because of it. This time, not the same experience. I would like to see some improvements to the ability to find other crews to try and work with, or incentive to repeat the tasks, either would help I think. I also think perhaps making it possible to solo/Duo/single crew it, but much harder to do so would be good for future events (similar to skull forts). I suppose that falls under the 'incentive to group up' category however.

@RevanJStone I'm still on the fence regarding forced co-op or not. But, aye, incentive to repeat would be a big help IMO too.