Diving IS the smoking gun

  • In the recent dev update, Drew noted that there's a lot of community speculation that diving and hourglass are the reasons that there's less and less encounters on the seas and the feeling of empty horizons. Drew then goes on to note that they've discovered a "smoking gun" associated to a server migration tech "problem." Obviously, he didn't get get into specifics, but it sounds like they're acknowledging that server migrations are a problem, but are not willing to admit that diving, in general, is the true underlying problem.

    Diving IS the problem. You wouldn't have to do all those server migrations and have fancy bandaid tech to try to keep servers populated and full of life if you didn't have so many crews diving in and out of servers. Further, specific to hourglass, those battles consume the life of 1/3 of a server's population for 'X' amount of time before they inevitably need to be replaced with other forms of life.

    Don't overthink it, Rare. It's Diving. Raids, voyages, hourglass, all of it. Diving IS the smoking gun.

    Solution: Just some spitball ideas, but here goes...

    For Hourglass, this should be obvious; that can be made into a main menu decision, and all those battles can be on their own servers with whatever level of event/emergent toggling you want to do (like you have with Safer Seas). Unlike Arena, they would not need to have a separate scoring system or menus or anything that requires its own unique maintenance which caused Arena to be a resource hog and subsequently played a part in its demise. I'm extremely hopeful that the stuff next season proves as a testing ground for some things that lead to this.

    For Adventure, this is going to be a multi-prong solution.
    -Voyages. This one should be obvious; just like, go back to the old voyage system or heck even the captaincy voyage system would be better. The "fast travel" for voyages is saving, at most, like 3 minutes of sailing (and that's being optimistic). You're not improving the pace of play by a worthwhile amount at all. Plus, most people fire up SOT expecting it to be a longer play session, so there's little point in the miniscule amount of time savings.

    -For Raid Voyages on the World Event "Lite" encounters (Sea Forts, Shrines, Treasuries, Skeleton Camps). Again, those should be obvious; lay down the raid voyage and it can choose either the nearest one (or nearest one without another crew in the area), flip the loot to whatever company your raid voyage is for and boom done. Easy.

    -For Raid Voyages on true World Events, these are a bit more complex. Honestly, I'd just get rid of them, but I doubt Rare would consider that. Instead, they can operate in a queue fashion if an event is currently active and a crew is doing the active event. Or, if no crew is doing the active world event, then just like today with these Raids, it will de-spawn the active event and spawn whichever one you are looking to do. If you throw down a Raid, you (or some other crew) have 15 mins to get to it and start engaging before the "voyage" is automatically failed/cancelled.
    "But what if I was doing the active event, sank, and want to go back. Will someone's Raid overwrite that?" That 15 minute timer starts anytime you're not in the radius of the event. Get back in time and you can keep going...or it'll cancel/despawn if you can't. These should have a similar mechanic to the Skull of Siren Song in that you get a close enough respawn that there should be no excuses for not being able to get back.
    "But what if I'm on my way to an event and someone drops a Raid before I can get to it?" Tough cookies. That's no different than today where an event despawns while you're in route. It happens. Get Rared.
    "But what if another crew has a Raid queued before mine?" Well, that's why it's called a queue. Wait your turn. Go contest that event. Go help them complete it. Switch Servers. Whatever.
    Again, I'd much rather these go away altogether and those top tier Raid loot items that drop in them be put into some other voyage or something instead.

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  • Yep. Listening to that bit, they acknowledged our feedback but dismissed it... like we're not the ones playing the game constantly and seeing how those voyages have impacted servers.

    I think fixing the misuse of diving voyages would help a lot. How often do Grade 5 Reapers use the lowest Gold Hoarder voyage to hop servers hunting? Yes, even I use them to hop servers... because I can. But that's not the intended reason for them.

    They were intended for players to be able to start their session quickly, not for us to constantly hop servers. Increase the cooldown when a voyage isn't complete to 20-30 mins and add a minimum cooldown on them of 10 mins even when complete. This would preserve the intended use while making them less viable for fast server hopping.

    Like you said: Rare, don't overthink this.

  • @realstyli said in Diving IS the smoking gun:

    I think fixing the misuse of diving voyages would help a lot. How often do Grade 5 Reapers use the lowest Gold Hoarder voyage to hop servers hunting? Yes, even I use them to hop servers... because I can. But that's not the intended reason for them.

    This. A LOT. I do it, pretty much every streamer does it, and probably every seasoned player does it.

    They were intended for players to be able to start their session quickly, not for us to constantly hop servers. Increase the cooldown when a voyage isn't complete to 20-30 mins and add a minimum cooldown on them of 10 mins even when complete. This would preserve the intended use while making them less viable for fast server hopping.

    I can appreciate the intended purpose of a quick start to a session...but realistically, as I noted, it saves maaaybe 3 minutes of sailing. It's not making or breaking someone's SOT session. I'd argue it gets abused for server hopping purposes way more than it actually helps any newer/casual player to have a better SOT session. It's also not helping to teach newer players how to navigate the map, gain no-look memory on where islands are, and become better prepared for the future.

  • @sweetsandman

    I don't disagree. I just don't see them entirely removing diving, unfortunately. There are comms related to diving and completing voyages that would also need to be removed if they did. But, personally, I think the game would be better without that mechanic, like you say.

  • @realstyli said in Diving IS the smoking gun:

    @sweetsandman

    I don't disagree. I just don't see them entirely removing diving, unfortunately. There are comms related to diving and completing voyages that would also need to be removed if they did. But, personally, I think the game would be better without that mechanic, like you say.

    I mean they straight up deleted all the Thieves' Haven Run related commendations, and they've altered several with wording to accommodate changes to the game.

    Maybe I'm just being hopeful that they're going to go back on what has clearly wound up being a poor decision for the game.

  • @sweetsandman said in Diving IS the smoking gun:

    -For Raid Voyages on true World Events, these are a bit more complex. Honestly, I'd just get rid of them, but I doubt Rare would consider that. Instead, they can operate in a queue fashion if an event is currently active and a crew is doing the active event. Or, if no crew is doing the active world event, then just like today with these Raids, it will de-spawn the active event and spawn whichever one you are looking to do. If you throw down a Raid, you (or some other crew) have 15 mins to get to it and start engaging before the "voyage" is automatically failed/cancelled.

    I don't think this is a good idea for same-server raids. If I'm reading it correctly, it makes it real easy to spawn on a server and start a raid voyage. If the current event doesn't despawn, you know someone is now at the active World Event. Even the 'lite' versions like Shrines would be susceptible to this - it would have to spawn at a farther away one because it replaces the loot and it can't do that if someone is there, so that's more information gained that you didn't have before.

    If anything, we need less radar and not more. Remove a bunch of the light beacons, change the Reaper grade 5 ability so they don't get automatic radar, remove the Guild Grade 5 map junk. Make diving cost you your emissary flag. All of these things will make you more likely to stick on your current server rather than jump somewhere else, and remove any advantages you get when spawning on a new server.

  • Add to the fact, Nobody wants to fight other players, Risk fear of being booted from servers.
    Sink someone once...they never come back for long periods. Such a shame, they put up a better fight

  • @d3adst1ck said in Diving IS the smoking gun:

    I don't think this is a good idea for same-server raids. If I'm reading it correctly, it makes it real easy to spawn on a server and start a raid voyage. If the current event doesn't despawn, you know someone is now at the active World Event. Even the 'lite' versions like Shrines would be susceptible to this - it would have to spawn at a farther away one because it replaces the loot and it can't do that if someone is there, so that's more information gained that you didn't have before.

    I'm not naive enough to think my idea didn't need some work-shopping lol. As long as there's a "check" to see if there's a ship in the area and it's always choosing the nearest one for the "Lite" events, I think that's fine. Nobody's going to server hop trying to hunt for those anyways. For regular events, though, yeah I could see some exploiting to try and verify if someone is doing the active event. Not sure what the right solution is for those, but honestly I'd rather they just get rid of them.

    If anything, we need less radar and not more. Remove a bunch of the light beacons, change the Reaper grade 5 ability so they don't get automatic radar, remove the Guild Grade 5 map junk. Make diving cost you your emissary flag. All of these things will make you more likely to stick on your current server rather than jump somewhere else, and remove any advantages you get when spawning on a new server.

    HARD agree. I've put countless rework proposals out in the past on that. It just encourages server hopping for both PvP and PvE reasons and is bad for the organic environment.

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