Safer Seas FAQ

@linowx said in Safer Seas FAQ:

@bloodybil Remove the level cap as well while we're at it too. Every other restriction except that and captaincy seems completely fair to me, but why would you put such an arbitrary barrier for paying customers? I've already said this, if a person played enough to reach level 40 rep in all 3 companies while exclusively playing on Safer Seas, chances are they're not changing their minds at this point. Plus, achieving PL brings absolutely zero benefits unless you move over, and it's easily obtainable today anyway.

Maybe something else eludes me, I don't know.

I'd be curious to know for the rep cap too but I guess it's an additional incentive for high seas. It's been a while I've looked at earlier voyages for company but at some point every tier of rep opened more lucrative voyages, so maybe it's to further motivate player to seek higher payoffs?

A trail to lure players out of their safety zones and encourage them to discover the public sea and realize how much more they can make and that it's not necessarily that terrifying out there, even meet people and move on to pirate legend stuff from there? I'm okay with that personally.

Without really knowing too much about how games are written, and so at the risk of being wrong - I’d imagine that captaincy is ruled out as both an incentive to play High Seas, and because to allow it on Safer Seas would mean tampering with the guts of it to only allow certain aspects, which could quite quickly become an intricate and time consuming task to complete.

I also think that one of the target groups for Safer Seas is for people like me, who simply won’t be put off by the restrictions. They aren’t important to what I enjoy about this game, and I doubt that the way I play will change because I can’t be attacked by another player. I won’t suddenly become a loot stacker, or a hardcore commendation chaser - I’ll just be able to enjoy the wonderful game environment, and can tear a few pages out of the unofficial solo sloop guidebook. I’m quite looking forward to leaving my ship anchored while I spend an hour exploring an island I’ve previously only fleetingly set foot on, lantern held high in the search for treasure. So guess something will change about the way I play this game, but it’ll be the pace, and not the style.

I’d always hoped for what I’d have called an ‘Explorer mode’ as a foil for Adventure mode, and have got pretty much what I’d hoped for. I have my old Xbox Microsoft account, so can start from scratch in Safer Seas, whilst maintaining my OG pirate on my main. The point is that I’ll be playing again, and probably will buy Plunder Pass, and drop into the Emporium every now and then, when something catches my eye.

Last time I remember it being stated, more than 30 million pirates have been created in SoT - if even 1% think the same way I do - that’s a lot of returning players, and revenue.

@kommunisator said in Safer Seas FAQ:

Now, this "safer seas" update seems a bit half-baked to us. We all advocated for years for true PvE servers. Completely separate from the rest - separate pirate, no transfer of gold, reputation or anything. So people, who are playing in open seas can brag (and rightfully so) to have earned their stuff "the hard way", while the rest can still enjoy a non-castrated game.
Again, no transfer of players, items or anything between the two modes.

I don't understand why people think that separating the progress between modes fixes the problem. The whole point of having a lower payout and some features kept in high sea is on purpose, and an incentive to motivate players to seek a higher challenge and additional rewards. Nothing half-baked or castrated here, it's not about bragging about how stuff was earned, it should be about how it's earned the same for everybody.

To me it just sounds like people don't want the risk but want equal rewards regardless. Imagine asking for this:
'We want an alternate emissary flag! '

• Same payout
• Same progress
• Same achievements
  But
• You can't be seen by reapers
• You can't lose it so other crews don't benefit sinking you with it
• You don't give progress to reapers
• You continue progressing even if you sink

What sense would that make?
"Oh but it's because I want to chill and not worry about losing my progress as an emissary. Don't worry, the old emissary flag is still there! It doesn't remove anything from it!"

I'll repeat what I said in another thread about risk vs reward

"Scaling" refers to the adjustment or adaptation of difficulty levels and corresponding rewards based on your players’ progress and skill levels. Scaling rewards may also involve providing more valuable rewards as players tackle more difficult challenges.

Players should be rewarded with a sense of accomplishment, but in a consistent way that reflects their current skill level. In other words, the more powerful a player gets, the more challenging rewards should be to attain.

By offering scaled challenges and corresponding rewards, players are incentivized to push their limits and strive for higher achievements relative to their skill level, boosting their long-term engagement with the game.

It's basic game design and would be silly otherwise. Different levels of difficulty, different levels of rewards, just gotta play accordingly.

First of all I think safer seas is a great addition to the game and I really like how much thought has been put into the whole project to both make it a place for new player to fall in love with the game but also a place for seasoned players to use it as their private testing realm for all things imaginable.

Id just make one small adjustment to make it the perfect balance between a stepstone to high seas and test realm for players, but at the same time keeping high seas the "main game". I think when setting up the restricitons that are meant to desentivize players exploiting the safety of safer seas to farm their endgame content (gold/commendations etc) in peace there were 4 aspects of the game overlooked:

I think that locking at the following commendations at grade II or III would be a very good idea because it would streamline the concept of safer seas to perfection: GH vaults (grade II is 10, grade III is 25), Ghost ship voyage completions (grade II is 5, grade III 15) and lost shipments (grade II is 15, grade III 25) and animals (grade II is 20, grade III 50) for merchant.

The reason behind that is, that these 4 things are THE endgame content for the 3 original trading companies and similarly to locking out the other end game content like Athena, Guilds and HG from safer seas these should also be included in the list for the same reason as these aspects are locked out of safer seas.

I think locking these commendations at grade III would give new players more than enough time to start some progress on these commendations but would also prevent a seasoned player to grind his last 5 GH vaults in peace for example.

@bl4cksh33p said in Safer Seas FAQ:

When I heard about this I was very excited to play without PvP. But getting 70% less gold/rep and only rep to level 40 makes it useless for me. 😭

I'm already 30+ and PvP ruins the game every time for me.

Please remove the reputation cap and increase rewards for players that don't like PvP. 🙏

I'm glad Rare kept their word in some ways with the idea of Safe Seas. They've said time and again that PvPvE is the basic idea of the game and to jeopardize that it would not be the game they wanted to make. You are able to explore pretty much everything the game has to offer expect those that would require other players for it to make sense.

I'm of a mind that some commendations should be limited even more. The shrines for example have a risk vs reward dynamic to them because you leave your ship unguarded while you are under the waves. This is risky when there are other players and not risky at all when you have a private server. Kinda makes those commendations lose a lot of value.

@exinjeru said in Safer Seas FAQ:

I don't think it's okay to stop you from using your captained ships in safer seas.

You can just stop progression in Captaincy while on safer seas and still let people use our custom ships and captaincy quality of life features.

You want safer seas to be a more relaxing experience but are cutting us off from our customization options for no reason.

Can you elaborate? What do the customization options change to the relaxing experience?

We did pay real money for some of these ship customizations.

And all those liveries paid for are still available at the shipwright no?

I'm all for being able to use our ship without progression but I'm just curious of the reasoning here.

@kommunisator
You perfectly summed up how I feel about the general sea of thieves pvp community here. And I agree. While I will definitely be enjoying Safer Seas when they come out, that doesn't mean I'm not gonna still comment on the improvements they could make to it and the problems that they have (in some cases, knowingly) created in it, namely the arbitrary lack of captained ships (again, we don't need the "progress" for these, just the nameplate and the saved customization loadouts).

Also, @BloodyBil , while the liveriess are still available, certain captained ship cosmetics, specifically the trinkets, nameplates, and decorations for the captain's room are NOT available on non-captained ships. Many of these are payed for with real money and to deprive people of them for seemingly no other reason than to strongarm people into playing High Seas is absolutely a reason to complain.

@silverwing-525 said in Safer Seas FAQ:

@kommunisator
You perfectly summed up how I feel about the general sea of thieves pvp community here. And I agree. While I will definitely be enjoying Safer Seas when they come out, that doesn't mean I'm not gonna still comment on the improvements they could make to it and the problems that they have (in some cases, knowingly) created in it, namely the arbitrary lack of captained ships (again, we don't need the "progress" for these, just the nameplate and the saved customization loadouts).

Also, @BloodyBil , while the liveriess are still available, certain captained ship cosmetics, specifically the trinkets, nameplates, and decorations for the captain's room are NOT available on non-captained ships. Many of these are payed for with real money and to deprive people of them for seemingly no other reason than to strongarm people into playing High Seas is absolutely a reason to complain.

Sounds a bit dramatic if it's only a matter of not being able to put the equivalent of a bobble head on your dash, but I can agree that I don't see why they couldn't be available.

@bloodybil
It might be a small thing, yes, but it still makes a difference, especially if you payed for it only to be told "No! You can't put that bobble head on your dashboard because you aren't accepting the (implied, but never explicitly stated) price of it potentially ending up at the bottom of the sea!". And by the same logic, if it is such a small thing, it shouldn't be an issue to make it available as doing so quite literally doesn't affect anyone else and is a net gain as a result.
But regardless, I'm glad I was able to help explain the issue that myself and others are experiencing here.

@silverwing-525 said in Safer Seas FAQ:

@bloodybil
It might be a small thing, yes, but it still makes a difference, especially if you payed for it only to be told "No! You can't put that bobble head on your dashboard because you aren't accepting the (implied, but never explicitly stated) price of it potentially ending up at the bottom of the sea!". And by the same logic, if it is such a small thing, it shouldn't be an issue to make it available as doing so quite literally doesn't affect anyone else and is a net gain as a result.
But regardless, I'm glad I was able to help explain the issue that myself and others are experiencing here.

No I agree with you, some incentives and limitations make sense but this one is a tad farfetched.

@bloodybil
Ok. I figured that's what you were saying, tbh. Sorry if it sounded like I believed you weren't agreeing. That wasn't my intention. ^^:

@silverwing-525 said in Safer Seas FAQ:

@bloodybil
Ok. I figured that's what you were saying, tbh. Sorry if it sounded like I believed you weren't agreeing. That wasn't my intention. ^^:

All good!

Hello! It's my first time using these forums. Nice to meet you all.

I'm generally happy with all things Safer Seas, minus the 30% payout and lack of Captaincy.

Captaincy:
・Why can't we progress PvE milestones when we can progress PvE commendations?
・Fishing and Tall Tales were specifically called out in the Season 10 announcement, yet we cannot progress the related milestones.
・Not being able to sell at Sovereign Huts will make Safer Seas less viable for shorter play sessions, which it would otherwise be ideal for.
・Safer Seas is ideal for children and people with disabilities (who were also called out in the Season 10 announcement), yet they cannot use their ships.
・Safer Seas' players will have no reason to buy Captaincy items in the Emporium, and people who have already bought some will have less usage of them.

The 30% payout:
In short: I think it will be excessively grindy. Here's emissary 5 vs the base rate vs Safer Seas:

・ーーーーーーー・ーーーーーーー・ーーーーーーー・
｜Ｅ５　２５０％｜ＢＲ　１００％｜ＳＳ　　３０％｜
・ーーーーーーー・ーーーーーーー・ーーーーーーー・
｜　　　　１０ｍ｜　　　　２５ｍ｜　１ｈ　２３ｍ｜
｜　　　　２０ｍ｜　　　　５０ｍ｜　２ｈ　４７ｍ｜
｜　　　　３０ｍ｜　１ｈ　１５ｍ｜　４ｈ　１０ｍ｜
｜　１ｈ　００ｍ｜　２ｈ　３０ｍ｜　８ｈ　２０ｍ｜
｜　２ｈ　００ｍ｜　５ｈ　００ｍ｜１６ｈ　４０ｍ｜
｜　３ｈ　００ｍ｜　７ｈ　３０ｍ｜２４ｈ　５９ｍ｜
・ーーーーーーー・ーーーーーーー・ーーーーーーー・

Gold is only used for buying voyages, supplies and cosmetics.
Supplies will be rather expensive, let alone cosmetics:
An entire sea fort holds between 15,000 and 25,000 gold (excluding emissary bonuses) as per the wiki.
This becomes 4,950 to 8,250 gold in Safer Seas. Not enough for two supply crates, and at its most extreme not enough for one.

I want Safer Seas to succeed. A lot of people come home from a long day of school or work and aren't in the mood for the game.
Safer Seas' more casual play style could be the perfect thing to get these people playing, in addition to other groups like children and the disabled.
The game mode just needs to be worthwhile enough, and I really hope it will be.

My thanks to anyone who read all that, and I'll appreciate any feedback I get.

@draaloff-x

Imagine the time you safe because you don't have to defend the fort or get interupted doing the fleet by another crew - time saved as well by not having to keep an eye out for other crews / swimmers/ tuckers.

Imagine the time you safe because you can go to the next island on your voyage and not take a detour because there is another ship close-by.

Imagine the time you safe because you can turn in at the most convenient/nearest outpost and not have to sail another 10 minutes because another crew just spawned there / are waiting for you.

Imagine only having to turn in loot at the end of the session and not multiple times because you should not have more loot on your vessel than you care to lose (at least, if you won't sink to Meg/Kraken/Skeleton ship).

Imagine the gold you safe because the starting supplies and the supplies you find on the starting outpost and what the events give you is enough to last you against the PvE.

Imagine the loot you can turn in every session, instead of having it stolen by another crew.

&c.

I would say the 30% you get for the loot turned in, is more than fair - IMHO it's even too much compared to all the "hindrances" you might encounter on the Higher Seas.

@lem0n-curry
For gold gain, it is considerably faster and almost as safe to simply put up the Gold Hoarder emissary flag and go back and forth between the nearest sea fort and Sovereign Hut.
The time lost sailing isn't an issue, as you'd either have to wait for the fort to reset or sail to another one.
It becomes 30% with no interference vs 100~250% with a low chance of interference.
With longer voyages the risk certainly becomes more of an issue, but it would still be more worthwhile to use the above method.

@draaloff-x said in Safer Seas FAQ:

@lem0n-curry
For gold gain, it is considerably faster and almost as safe to simply put up the Gold Hoarder emissary flag and go back and forth between the nearest sea fort and Sovereign Hut.
The time lost sailing isn't an issue, as you'd either have to wait for the fort to reset or sail to another one.
It becomes 30% with no interference vs 100~250% with a low chance of interference.
With longer voyages the risk certainly becomes more of an issue, but it would still be more worthwhile to use the above method.

If that's what you want to do and you feel it's low risk, then why would you choose to do that on Safer Seas ?

To me it seems disingenuous to use a low risk-quick-high payout type of encounter and then extrapolate its time-gold ratio for activities that are far more time consuming / higher risk.

@lem0n-curry said in Safer Seas FAQ:

@draaloff-x said in Safer Seas FAQ:

@lem0n-curry
For gold gain, it is considerably faster and almost as safe to simply put up the Gold Hoarder emissary flag and go back and forth between the nearest sea fort and Sovereign Hut.
The time lost sailing isn't an issue, as you'd either have to wait for the fort to reset or sail to another one.
It becomes 30% with no interference vs 100~250% with a low chance of interference.
With longer voyages the risk certainly becomes more of an issue, but it would still be more worthwhile to use the above method.

If that's what you want to do and you feel it's low risk, then why would you choose to do that on Safer Seas ?

To me it seems disingenuous to use a low risk-quick-high payout type of encounter and then extrapolate its time-gold ratio for activities that are far more time consuming / higher risk.

I wouldn't choose to do that on Safer Seas; I'd do time-consuming commendation stuff instead.
My point is it takes between 3.33 and 8.33 times as much work to grind gold in Safer Seas, and it's much quicker to do a quick, minimal risk activity like sea forts in High Seas instead.
I don't think Safer Seas should be as quick to grind as High Seas, but the current variance is extreme.
Being unable to sell at Sovereign Huts also adds a significant amount of wasted time to a play session.
If the payout was 70% (30% less than High Seas) and we could sell at Sovereigns, then I think it would be a lot more reasonable.

@draaloff-x said in Safer Seas FAQ:

@lem0n-curry said in Safer Seas FAQ:

@draaloff-x said in Safer Seas FAQ:

@lem0n-curry
For gold gain, it is considerably faster and almost as safe to simply put up the Gold Hoarder emissary flag and go back and forth between the nearest sea fort and Sovereign Hut.
The time lost sailing isn't an issue, as you'd either have to wait for the fort to reset or sail to another one.
It becomes 30% with no interference vs 100~250% with a low chance of interference.
With longer voyages the risk certainly becomes more of an issue, but it would still be more worthwhile to use the above method.

If that's what you want to do and you feel it's low risk, then why would you choose to do that on Safer Seas ?

To me it seems disingenuous to use a low risk-quick-high payout type of encounter and then extrapolate its time-gold ratio for activities that are far more time consuming / higher risk.

I wouldn't choose to do that on Safer Seas; I'd do time-consuming commendation stuff instead.
My point is it takes between 3.33 and 8.33 times as much work to grind gold in Safer Seas, and it's much quicker to do a quick, minimal risk activity like sea forts in High Seas instead.
I don't think Safer Seas should be as quick to grind as High Seas, but the current variance is extreme.
Being unable to sell at Sovereign Huts also adds a significant amount of wasted time to a play session.
If the payout was 70% (30% less than High Seas) and we could sell at Sovereigns, then I think it would be a lot more reasonable.

Again, you're using an easy, low risk and fast way of getting gold and extrapolate it, so you would get more gold for doing something that would be (much) higher risk, time-consuming on High Seas, but far more easy, quicker and about zero risk on Safer Seas.

How much time would it take to do a fort on Higher Seas, use the average sinking for average crew or other interuptions by other crews and compare that to the time it takes to do on Safer Seas. Some crews might make more on Safer Seas with 30% than 100% / divided by sinking on Higher Seas or even with more risk for partially 250% / divided by even more sinking.

Even if they won't sink - doing the fort with another crew interfering (or even just passing by) can take a lot of extra time. Time they won't have to spend on Safer Seas.
They might make 30% of the standard value, but they will take considerably less time in finishing the fort and getting all of the loot on their vessel.

@lem0n-curry said in Safer Seas FAQ:

@draaloff-x said in Safer Seas FAQ:

@lem0n-curry said in Safer Seas FAQ:

@draaloff-x said in Safer Seas FAQ:

@lem0n-curry
For gold gain, it is considerably faster and almost as safe to simply put up the Gold Hoarder emissary flag and go back and forth between the nearest sea fort and Sovereign Hut.
The time lost sailing isn't an issue, as you'd either have to wait for the fort to reset or sail to another one.
It becomes 30% with no interference vs 100~250% with a low chance of interference.
With longer voyages the risk certainly becomes more of an issue, but it would still be more worthwhile to use the above method.

If that's what you want to do and you feel it's low risk, then why would you choose to do that on Safer Seas ?

To me it seems disingenuous to use a low risk-quick-high payout type of encounter and then extrapolate its time-gold ratio for activities that are far more time consuming / higher risk.

I wouldn't choose to do that on Safer Seas; I'd do time-consuming commendation stuff instead.
My point is it takes between 3.33 and 8.33 times as much work to grind gold in Safer Seas, and it's much quicker to do a quick, minimal risk activity like sea forts in High Seas instead.
I don't think Safer Seas should be as quick to grind as High Seas, but the current variance is extreme.
Being unable to sell at Sovereign Huts also adds a significant amount of wasted time to a play session.
If the payout was 70% (30% less than High Seas) and we could sell at Sovereigns, then I think it would be a lot more reasonable.

Again, you're using an easy, low risk and fast way of getting gold and extrapolate it, so you would get more gold for doing something that would be (much) higher risk, time-consuming on High Seas, but far more easy, quicker and about zero risk on Safer Seas.

How much time would it take to do a fort on Higher Seas, use the average sinking for average crew or other interuptions by other crews and compare that to the time it takes to do on Safer Seas. Some crews might make more on Safer Seas with 30% than 100% / divided by sinking on Higher Seas or even with more risk for partially 250% / divided by even more sinking.

Even if they won't sink - doing the fort with another crew interfering (or even just passing by) can take a lot of extra time. Time they won't have to spend on Safer Seas.
They might make 30% of the standard value, but they will take considerably less time in finishing the fort and getting all of the loot on their vessel.

Yeah the time spent on interference themselves but also other safety measures as keeping a lookout for other ships or boarders, making detours to avoid people (for those who would change course for a different outpost if one is occupied) also won't be needed and speed up a lot.

@lem0n-curry said in Safer Seas FAQ:

Again, you're using an easy, low risk and fast way of getting gold and extrapolate it, so you would get more gold for doing something that would be (much) higher risk, time-consuming on High Seas, but far more easy, quicker and about zero risk on Safer Seas.

How much time would it take to do a fort on Higher Seas, use the average sinking for average crew or other interuptions by other crews and compare that to the time it takes to do on Safer Seas. Some crews might make more on Safer Seas with 30% than 100% / divided by sinking on Higher Seas or even with more risk for partially 250% / divided by even more sinking.

Even if they won't sink - doing the fort with another crew interfering (or even just passing by) can take a lot of extra time. Time they won't have to spend on Safer Seas.
They might make 30% of the standard value, but they will take considerably less time in finishing the fort and getting all of the loot on their vessel.

A Skeleton Fort holds between 25,000 and 45,000 gold. This becomes 8,250 to 14,850 in Safer Seas.
It would still be faster to do a Sea Fort in High Seas without an emissary bonus at its minimum payout, which is 15,000 gold.
It's even worse if you factor in the longer travel and selling times.

Excluding emissary flags, you'd have to lose 70% of your loot on average for grinding gold in Safer Seas to be worthwhile.
If you include emissary flags (which can be quickly levelled up once or twice with just one Sea Fort), then that percentage grows even further.
I imagine most people give up the game before reaching that point.

@draaloff-x said in Safer Seas FAQ:

@lem0n-curry said in Safer Seas FAQ:

Again, you're using an easy, low risk and fast way of getting gold and extrapolate it, so you would get more gold for doing something that would be (much) higher risk, time-consuming on High Seas, but far more easy, quicker and about zero risk on Safer Seas.

How much time would it take to do a fort on Higher Seas, use the average sinking for average crew or other interuptions by other crews and compare that to the time it takes to do on Safer Seas. Some crews might make more on Safer Seas with 30% than 100% / divided by sinking on Higher Seas or even with more risk for partially 250% / divided by even more sinking.

Even if they won't sink - doing the fort with another crew interfering (or even just passing by) can take a lot of extra time. Time they won't have to spend on Safer Seas.
They might make 30% of the standard value, but they will take considerably less time in finishing the fort and getting all of the loot on their vessel.

A skeleton fort holds between 25,000 and 45,000 gold. This becomes 8,250 to 14,850 in Safer Seas.
It would still be faster to do a Sea Fort in High Seas without an emissary bonus at its minimum payout, which is 15,000 gold.
It's even worse if you factor in the longer travel and selling times.

Excluding emissary flags, you'd have to lose 70% of your loot on average for grinding Gold in Safer Seas to be worthwhile.
If you include emissary flags (which can be quickly levelled up once or twice with just one Sea Fort), then that percentage grows even further.
I imagine most people give up the game before reaching that point.

The thing is you seem to look at this with a purely % value but not taking account that the potential amount of gold earned can quickly get to 0% when you get attacked, which you won't in safe seas.