So now Arena is closed, and finding PVP on the seas is kinda difficult due to everyone running on sights. So how about a proper TDM game mode? We have had the naval combat experience as an Arena, but me personally and many other would love to get a fight with other pirate. The players could be gathered in one hub, then separated in groups of two. The players would then fight each other, and the person with most wins is the winner. Players can choose between randomly selected weapons, their own loadouts or 1 weapon only. The arenas themselves would have a few obstacles to take cover behind, as well as large open space in the middle for all the hopping and dancing. From the lore perspective, Lesedi, missing the taste of the fight decided to open this new combat, but under a different name, at different place and without DeMarco. What do u think?
New PVP game mode
I think the naval combat portion of SoT is what differentiates itself from every other game out there. If there were to be another condensed adventure mode like Arena, I would certainly want it to include naval combat. Otherwise...just like...go play CoD/Halo/BF/Apex...they do TDM Waaaaaaaaay better than our ad-hoc sessions in Arena.
finding PVP on the seas is kinda difficult due to everyone running on sights.
Sometimes PvP find you when you dont try :p If someone runs, they arent worth the chase (which players rather do as well) Problem isnt the running, its the "is it worth the trouble to fight?"
So how about a proper TDM game mode
People in Arena made it there own mode and turned every match (I was in) into TDM and by result...still % of players didnt play. So what would adding this change?
With TDM’ers being some of the most toxic players on the game, and also some of the most likely to cheat, and the fact that doing it on arena was a way of boosting for commendations, I don’t think this should be encouraged in any way whatsoever. Just my opinion. Just go play CoD if you want to play TDM, imo it doesn’t fit with this games atmosphere or it’s style, and would only encourage people into elitist attitudes towards other players just like arena did. Bad community vibes. Everyone had the chance collectively to make arena a nice place to be, and the opposite happened, this will be no different.
SOT came out at a time when PUBG clones were the fashion, yet different from all those games SOT stood on its own with the mix of pvepvp, open world adventure settings.
These elements endured before and after the Arena experiment and I really think this mixture is the right recipe for years of successful gaming.
@metal-ravage said in New PVP game mode:
SOT came out at a time when PUBG clones were the fashion, yet different from all those games SOT stood on its own with the mix of pvepvp, open world adventure settings.
These elements endured before and after the Arena experiment and I really think this mixture is the right recipe for years of successful gaming.
You're right, its a PvEvP game. But completly neglecting the fact that there are players interested in PvP and only putting out new PvE content while not fixing gamebreaking PvP mechanics for years and removing the only safespace to get better in the game without losing all of your loot will eventually lead to more new people complaining about PvP and wanting PvE only servers. This could ruin the game on the longterm.
@derbizey said in New PVP game mode:
You're right, its a PvEvP game. But completly neglecting the fact that there are players interested in PvP and only putting out new PvE content while not fixing gamebreaking PvP mechanics for years and removing the only safespace to get better in the game without losing all of your loot will eventually lead to more new people complaining about PvP and wanting PvE only servers. This could ruin the game on the longterm.
Things have been "ruining" the game and Sea of Thieves has been "dying" for four years. "Arena will save Sea of Thieves!" "PVE Servers will save Sea of Thieves!" "Private Servers will save Sea of Thieves!" You would think the game would have died by now with the number of things that are "killing" the game.
Putting out more PVE content, as well as more content in general, helps the PVP scene as well, as that means there are more players with something to lose. "Rising tide lifts all ships."
Also, this idea that they put out PVE content which means they aren't interested in fixing "game-breaking bugs" is just not true to reality in how game development goes. The same people working on new story and lore are not the same people fixing server issues and hitreg. Yes, yes, "resource management" and all that, but honestly they have their crew working on server stuff and hitreg and if they paused all future content to only focus on those issues, by the time they were all fixed a lot of players would have left because it would have been a year or more with no new content.
@maximusarael020 said in New PVP game mode:
@derbizey said in New PVP game mode:
You're right, its a PvEvP game. But completly neglecting the fact that there are players interested in PvP and only putting out new PvE content while not fixing gamebreaking PvP mechanics for years and removing the only safespace to get better in the game without losing all of your loot will eventually lead to more new people complaining about PvP and wanting PvE only servers. This could ruin the game on the longterm.
Things have been "ruining" the game and Sea of Thieves has been "dying" for four years. "Arena will save Sea of Thieves!" "PVE Servers will save Sea of Thieves!" "Private Servers will save Sea of Thieves!" You would think the game would have died by now with the number of things that are "killing" the game.
Putting out more PVE content, as well as more content in general, helps the PVP scene as well, as that means there are more players with something to lose. "Rising tide lifts all ships."
Also, this idea that they put out PVE content which means they aren't interested in fixing "game-breaking bugs" is just not true to reality in how game development goes. The same people working on new story and lore are not the same people fixing server issues and hitreg. Yes, yes, "resource management" and all that, but honestly they have their crew working on server stuff and hitreg and if they paused all future content to only focus on those issues, by the time they were all fixed a lot of players would have left because it would have been a year or more with no new content.
OK, first things first I did never say that arena was gonna save Sea of Thieves and it didnt. So this is obviously ridiculous. What I'm trying to say here is simply that the disparity between the good players (PVP) and bad players only gets bigger if you dont have a place to practice combat. So its literally unfair for newer players as they have to get their skills from adventure where it takes probably 10x the time to get the same amount of raw combat as in a mode like arena.
Also the notion that different parts of the company are working on PvE content and fixing bugs does not change my point in any way as bugs like hitreg literally existed for years with Rare stating repeatedly that they are going to fix it and it is still a major problem in the current build of the game. If you don't agree with me on that point try to ladder guard on a solo sloop with Sniper/Pistol and you will see just how "fixed" hitreg is. I'm also not stating that they shouldn't put out any new PvE content.
You also stated that adding PvE is also encouraging PvP which is literally not what happened. For example look at the Veil voyage, when it first came out like the first week or so it indeed pushed PvP but since then, every time you roll up on a Veil they just cancel it and leave.
@derbizey said in New PVP game mode:
OK, first things first I did never say that arena was gonna save Sea of Thieves and it didnt. So this is obviously ridiculous. What I'm trying to say here is simply that the disparity between the good players (PVP) and bad players only gets bigger if you dont have a place to practice combat. So its literally unfair for newer players as they have to get their skills from adventure where it takes probably 10x the time to get the same amount of raw combat as in a mode like arena.
Also the notion that different parts of the company are working on PvE content and fixing bugs does not change my point in any way as bugs like hitreg literally existed for years with Rare stating repeatedly that they are going to fix it and it is still a major problem in the current build of the game. If you don't agree with me on that point try to ladder guard on a solo sloop with Sniper/Pistol and you will see just how "fixed" hitreg is. I'm also not stating that they shouldn't put out any new PvE content.
You also stated that adding PvE is also encouraging PvP which is literally not what happened. For example look at the Veil voyage, when it first came out like the first week or so it indeed pushed PvP but since then, every time you roll up on a Veil they just cancel it and leave.
You didn't say the Arena would save Sea of Thieves. What you said was that removing that "safe space" and not fixing things like hitreg would ruin the game long-term. Which, in effect, is just splitting hairs. If removing the thing kills the game, then adding the thing saves it, right? But again, it's really a more general statement that comes out of the multitude of mostly-identical posts to yours that have been in the forum for a long time.
I never said hitreg was fixed. I said that the belief that "they are putting out new content without fixing hitreg" ignores the reality of game development where those two things actually do happen at the same time. Do you think Rare really just doesn't care about hitreg and is ignoring it? In one of the podcasts they had discussed how they have a team working on fixing it, looking at things like hitscan and hybrid systems, certain server fixes, etc. If it were easy to fix, it would have been done already. It's not for a lack of trying our resources, or that they put out new Adventures every few months.
As for the Legend of the Veil issue, added content does drive more PVP, and if people are finding it difficult to get player interaction with the player-made tornado in the sky, they probably are just not playing it smartly. Yes they can cancel the voyage if they spot a ship, so be hidden? Wait until they have finished it and then attack? It's not that hard. As soon as the tornado comes down, just roll in cannons blazing. If you sink them quickly, you get good loot. If they fight back, it might be a decent fight! I think it was a great idea Rare had, as active forts may or may not have players, but Legend of the Veil tornados always do. More voyages that loudly indicate player activity would do well in this game I think to garner more player interaction (make them high-reward to counter the high-risk) but I think they did a great job with that voyage. I get contested many times when I do the Legend of the Veil, and it is normally a lot of fun. Just play it smarter next time.
K, well I'll just go back to your original point if you're having trouble.
"New PvP Game Mode":
No. Sea of Thieves is not a "PVP" game. It's PvPvE. They tried a PvP thing, and it failed due to the utter toxicity of that player base and the fact that very few people actually spent time there. No need to make the same mistakes again. Keep everyone in Adventure. They'll learn how to fight the way the rest of the day-1 pirates did: on the Seas of Adventure.@maximusarael020 But just to reply to your honestly pretty ignorant point of "Just play it smarter next time". Dude, how many times do you think I did that? Literally in 50% of the cases they just run to the red sea or around the map for 2h. Do you think I want to camp at an island for 30mins only to run after a ship for 2 more hours without them even trying to board. just for an athena chest? You just dont get the point I'm making at all. I like combat. Im not a tucker. Im a PvPer.
@maximusarael020 said in New PVP game mode:
K, well I'll just go back to your original point if you're having trouble.
"New PvP Game Mode":
No. Sea of Thieves is not a "PVP" game. It's PvPvE. They tried a PvP thing, and it failed due to the utter toxicity of that player base and the fact that very few people actually spent time there. No need to make the same mistakes again. Keep everyone in Adventure. They'll learn how to fight the way the rest of the day-1 pirates did: on the Seas of Adventure.OK man if you really think fights from day-1 pirates were anywhere close to the level of fights when arena came out and people actually started being really good in PvP you're just delusional. Just look up some fights from year 1.
@derbizey said in New PVP game mode:
OK man if you really think fights from day-1 pirates were anywhere close to the level of fights when arena came out and people actually started being really good in PvP you're just delusional. Just look up some fights from year 1.
I'll just compare it to last-months Top Arena TDM footage. Oh wait...
@maximusarael020 said in New PVP game mode:
@derbizey said in New PVP game mode:
OK man if you really think fights from day-1 pirates were anywhere close to the level of fights when arena came out and people actually started being really good in PvP you're just delusional. Just look up some fights from year 1.
I'll just compare it to last-months Top Arena TDM footage. Oh wait...
I guess you owned me in the marketplace of ideas.
@pithyrumble This is literally the suggestion board of the forums and you complain about people suggesting stuff
I scuttle bad ideas.
This thread is asking for Arena to come back with fancy new title.
Rare decided a pvp focused area was bad and shut it down. I'm sure you'd be screaming NO PVE SERVERS if someone made that suggestion. If you made it in before anchor...
They've stated Arena is done and over. Just like they stated no PVE servers.
@pithyrumble Nice that you decide what ideas are good and bad. This thread is asking for an opportunity for players to practice PvP and explicitly stating that its not the same as arena. Rare shut down arena not because they thought pvp focus was bad but because noone was playing it compared to adventure. Noone is asking for "NO PVE SERVERS". We just want to practice PvP and I dont get why people are so upset with arena in the first place, its not like you have to play it, there is still an adventure mode.
@derbizey said in New PVP game mode:
@pithyrumble Nice that you decide what ideas are good and bad. This thread is asking for an opportunity for players to practice PvP and explicitly stating that its not the same as arena. Rare shut down arena not because they thought pvp focus was bad but because noone was playing it compared to adventure. Noone is asking for "NO PVE SERVERS". We just want to practice PvP and I dont get why people are so upset with arena in the first place, its not like you have to play it, there is still an adventure mode.
It's for the discussion of suggestions as well. This one isn't going anywhere because Rare isn't interested in doing a separate pvp mode.
And wow. You sound like someone begging for pve now.
could someone post that handy Arena announcement...
The one where they said Arena isn't coming back...
There should be places where PVP would be the main focus. It would decrease the chance that new players actually try the game without being griefed by players with 35 days play time. Let the griefers kill each other in dedicated arena's. It is a net positive for everyone. Give them dedicated skins, rewards, etc. Fun for them, more fun for the casuals.
To clarify for some people, not necessarily here, but everyone. The reason TDM’ers did what they did in SoT is because it’s unique and fun to do, especially with friends.
When did a CoD game have single-shot flintlocks and muskets with scopes? Never, that’s when.
Sea of Thieves combat is incredibly unique and different to that of other games, and that’s why people enjoy it so, in their own ways of course.I think bring back arena honestly. Instead of it being an always on thing make it a season thing. once every 3 or 4 months open it back up with minor changes. This way they can make minor tweaks to it to try and get the mode in a better place. Furthermore due to being a time limited even I would imagine people who missed out on the cosmetics and want to try and work on completing them now would be more likely to jump in and engagement in that content would be much higher. Like I hated arena but I assumed it would always be there to work on it if I ever chose to. I never expected they would actually throw away a whole mode and all the work that went into it rather than fixing it up. Like with that mentality so few people play in the devils roar why not delete that too?
Honestly even just adding 4 more colored armor sets and making the commendation tiers unlock a different color theme would have been better than a long grind to get all the red stuff then another long grind to get all the blue stuff and a super long grind to get pirate legend weapons. Playing arena felt like a job for those who didnt like pvp. cross play being off and open crews not starting matches short handed lead to extended que times as well. and the rejoin feature many times lead to open crews being full of ghost crews anyway. A lot of minor factors killed arena and as someone who hated the mode these simple ideas I thought up in under 5 mins could have gone a long way toward fixing arena instead they just wrote it off as toxic pit they didnt want to deal with.
The sad thing is people think PvE servers would ruin this game. Not true at all... If you did it smart. Sure if you just copy pasted Adventure but no one could attack each other than you remove all risk for the same reward. There would need to be a huge penalty on gains to give incentive for people to play the current adventure. A lot of people arent going to want their grind to be 5x longer by playing in a safe environment when they can lvl up and make gold that much faster playing normally.
The mind set being "if you want PvE just quit the game, because if you got PvE servers I wouldnt be able to hunt you down" ok but you just told them to quit so you cant hunt them down if they arent playing... over 30 million people have stopped playing this game. While its for a wide variety of factors a large amount is due to lack of PvE and those are victims PvPers no longer can access because they did what you wanted them to... They quit. For me I love so much about SoT. But with social anxiety I try to avoid people at all costs. Not just hostile people but I dont even like friendly encounters. Not that I cant enjoy them but when I game I set goals for myself and if I cant tick those boxes I feel I am wasting my time.
The problem with SoT and PvE is that theres no game like Sea of Thieves out there... I mean feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Its not like I know every game on the market but SoT is very unique in terms of the world content, the sailing, and everything it has to offer and there might be another sailing game or pirate game but for example looking at skull and bones it seems like while you have a pirate you arent really that character. You micromanage the whole crew and even finding treasure on land is just a cutscene instead of you running around finding the X. I was playing Abandon Ship and that was kinda neat but you were just sailing around kinda like an FTL or Oregon Trail kinda game. Like it had little event spots you could land on which would pull up a prompt of choices. But wheres my land exploration? Finding treasure? Etc... The only way I would consider the PvE server argument dead in SoT is if someone else actually makes a SoT clone with both PvE and PvP options... Because Rare sure as heck isnt going to cave on the issue and whoever makes this game will surely make a killing if they can capture the fun and goofiness of sea of thieves and have the overall gameplay feel as good.
Plenty of other games have PvE and PvP servers and they seem to be managing it just fine.
@magus104
Or maybe no one has done that yet because it doesn't work? They've seen the market, seen the data, looked at other games, and said "That's a losing proposition."@magus104 said in New PVP game mode:
over 30 million people have stopped playing this game. While its for a wide variety of factors a large amount is due to lack of PvE and those are victims PvPers no longer can access because they did what you wanted them to... They quit.
If you want anyone the entertain your claims here you are going to need to back this up. Show us meaningful proof that
- 30 million people have quit this game (meaning they never play it)
- Most of that 30 million quit because of a lack of PvE
Plenty of other games have PvE and PvP servers and they seem to be managing it just fine.
And others have done so and it hurt them. Examples are discussed in the now closed mega thread about this topic, as well as reasons giveN for why SoT would be one of them. Rare has stated very clearly and consistently that they will not be entertaining this idea unless SoT fundamentally changes someday.
@derbizey said in New PVP game mode:
@maximusarael020 But just to reply to your honestly pretty ignorant point of "Just play it smarter next time". Dude, how many times do you think I did that? Literally in 50% of the cases they just run to the red sea or around the map for 2h. Do you think I want to camp at an island for 30mins only to run after a ship for 2 more hours without them even trying to board. just for an athena chest? You just dont get the point I'm making at all. I like combat. Im not a tucker. Im a PvPer.
You followed a ship for 2 hours? That's on you Skipper.
@chissler7540 said in New PVP game mode:
There should be places where PVP would be the main focus. It would decrease the chance that new players actually try the game without being griefed by players with 35 days play time. Let the griefers kill each other in dedicated arena's. It is a net positive for everyone. Give them dedicated skins, rewards, etc. Fun for them, more fun for the casuals.
That's a job meant for a larger team, a larger team that can see eye-to-eye on each change/addition, and be capable of supporting a healthy and meaty amount of content on both game modes' ends each few months.
Nevermind the fact that you think by adding a PvP game mode is going to keep the PvP players out of Adventure, but this is implying you want the game to split just to satisfy a crowd that play this game with a one-sided desire in a multiple-way world.
That analogy can be said for PvE servers, and the same can be said for "another PVP game mode".
@nex-stargaze said in New PVP game mode:
@chissler7540 said in New PVP game mode:
There should be places where PVP would be the main focus. It would decrease the chance that new players actually try the game without being griefed by players with 35 days play time. Let the griefers kill each other in dedicated arena's. It is a net positive for everyone. Give them dedicated skins, rewards, etc. Fun for them, more fun for the casuals.
That's a job meant for a larger team, a larger team that can see eye-to-eye on each change/addition, and be capable of supporting a healthy and meaty amount of content on both game modes' ends each few months.
Nevermind the fact that you think by adding a PvP game mode is going to keep the PvP players out of Adventure, but this is implying you want the game to split just to satisfy a crowd that play this game with a one-sided desire in a multiple-way world.
That analogy can be said for PvE servers, and the same can be said for "another PVP game mode".
In my opinion, giving players a platform to go for PvP only has nothing to do with splitting the community. Its giving players who are interested in getting better at combat an opportunity to practice without literally spending hours on hours fighting people afraid of losing their loot. And saying "You are chasing for hours, thats your fault" is also an incredably ignorant take considering that stealing in this game is literally how they want you to play the game. What should I do? Hop for another 30mins just to get to another ship that is running away from me?
@fishyjoesalt Oh sure thats on me because I play the game as it was intended, what do you want me to do? Hop for another 30mins just to get to another reaper that runs from me for an hour?
@derbizey said in New PVP game mode:
And saying "You are chasing for hours, thats your fault" is also an incredably ignorant take considering that stealing in this game is literally how they want you to play the game. What should I do? Hop for another 30mins just to get to another ship that is running away from me?
The world won't bend to your will as much as it won't bend to the farmers' wills. The balance of the world is that nothing is guaranteed, you take what you get and things will matter when they do. Asking for it to happen more often, as far as anything the devs say (which is nothing), is silly, and unhealthy to the environment of the game.
If people aren't interested in participating in what you want to do to/with them, that's just kinda how it is. Having an issue with chasing people is a problem you can only fix by not participating in it.
@nex-stargaze So you're basically telling me to stop looking for PvP and playing the game as it literally was intended. It's called "Sea of Thieves" not "Sea of Friends".
