Sword Nerf Proposal

@sherpa725 I am not going to argue about the "Wallbanging" and hit registration, as that is not what I am arguing for.

Double gunning has an advantage over sword users due to the main fact that they can shoot two shots quicker than the sword user can reload his one gun. This prevents the sword user from ever getting close to the double gun user.

I am not against double gun users, as I use both sword and double gun. I just feel that they need to be balanced out and have their own "Strong-Suits" and weaknesses.

If you would check at my other conversations with the other pirates, we talk about potential features that can be added to counter double gun with a sword.

But all of what I just said is besides my point. My point that I'm trying to get across is that the sword is no longer enjoyable to use, and has no skill gap, as they need to make changes to it.

Edit: Now realizing that this posted twice, sorry about that mate.

@sherpa725 said in Sword Nerf Proposal:

@graphical24 listen, wall banging is never gonna be consistent because hit reg is never consistent is this game. Also, breaking news!!! Double gunning does not leave sword players at a disadvantage because sword players don’t only have a sword, they have a gun equipped as well!

so by your logic "sword users should doublegun"

as one gun they can shoot one bullet then reload or rely on the sword

while a double gunner has two and can kill you in 1 second

and as for the hitreg it can hit when its suppose to miss

hitreg isn't only about it missing when its suppose to hit

can't count how many times i've hit someone when they wasn't even close to where the bullet landed

your arguement here screams "can't beat us? join us!" while you desperately try to justify the op meta double gunning with hitreg arguements hitreg serves as both a nerf and a buff for guns

Swords can;

• Kill in 4 slashes
• Block
• Dodge
• Lunge

Swords can not;

• Hit from anything outside the effective range of a blunderbuss.
• Block any guns, including a close range blunderbuss 1shot.
• Dodge any guns, provided the gun user is anything short of blackout drunk.

Sword vs sword fights take a lot of skill; you can't just mash attack, because whoever started mashing first will have priority and be the only one to get any hits in (and you're not always going to be first). You have to take your opponent's swings into your block, or dodge to make them miss, in order to retaliate. But you'll then also have to account for them trying to do the same to you, but if you create even more space they might pull out their gun to get a cheeky shot in on you. The sword vs sword meta is deep, and it's disappointing that you're trying to write it off as if it doesn't take any skill.

Sword vs gun fights take a lot of skill; in the open water you're dead, and on a ship or land you have to use hard cover to avoid getting shot until you're close enough to get any swings in. Even then, the gunner might pull out a blunderbuss to deal with you at close range, and even if they miss a shot before you reach them, they can reload before you can get your 4th swing in. Truly a difficult situation in any case, and it's disappointing that you're looking at it from such a shallow angle.

Gun vs sword fights take a lot of skill; in the open water it's easy to hit players, though you only have a few shots before they reach you, and you can't really escape the blender at that point. If your aim isn't on point, or you're not carrying a blunderbuss, you're dead. In the tight areas of ships, which swords are intended for, it's even more difficult to keep your distance while getting 2 hits in.

Gun vs gun fights take a lot of skill; regardless of the situation, it comes down to who can aim faster and more accurately, and in some cases the fight can even be won by who has better control (or denial) of the nearest ammo box.

I'd like to hear (and correct) any further questions you have on this subject.

@groggy-mayles Fellow BETA player here. I totally agree with you. The cutlass has been changed sooo many times, that I think they just need to revert it back the the original. I have had such bad luck with lunges this past update, one sword lunge and immediately killed. But, it I walk right up to another player and blunder/snipe right in the face, nothing is done to them. Give us back the original settings!!

@graphical24

To comment on your proposal:
My proposal is to revert the sword and its features back to what it was at launch.

This would just revert us back to the double gunning meta. Sure at launch more people used swords, but guns were actually better and would just revert it back. The issue with 20 damage per strike is: Gunners can reload, jump, gain distance while tanking the hits. Double gunning needs to be about properly kiting, not semi-kiting/tanking.

Yet, the sword battles have not been as fun as it was at launch. The change happened a while back in an attempt to get sword users to catch double gunners, increase our flow and speed.

The only aspect that they have to revert from the sword is the punishment on striking and hitting air! Just slow you down if you miss a swing and all of a sudden sword users will have to choose when to strike, instead of just striking and keeping their momentum.

This allows double gunners to kite easier for those that miss their strike, it allows sword users to have more engaging battles and still allows those that make sure that when they hit, they land the shot to keep still killing people if they get up close and personal.

That is my point of view, I miss that punishment so much... it is what made sword duels fun.

@cotu42 I agree.

They do need to add a punishment if you miss a sword swing. So that you actually have to plan out when to strike.

I would also suggest just removing stun lock. But I'm not sure how that would work out. Maybe they could test it in Insiders.

@groggy-mayles I, as a sword and double gun user, have to disagree with the "Sword vs sword fights take a lot of skill" statement. (Although, before the update, the sword did require skill)

In your statement, you list all of the possible moves and dynamics that could happen in a sword fight. But recently, I, as well as many others, have noticed a frequent (if not only) strategy, "Run and Swing".

I love sword combat (at least before the update), because people actually used things like the block, the sword-block-jump, and the sword lunge. But now all I am doing is either chasing someone with a sword, or running from someone chasing me. I find neither of these fun and enjoyable, and I think others could agree.

If you are worried about the double gun mechanic being overpowered with a sword nerf, you should look at some of my ideas in my previous conversations to counter this problem.

@galactic-geek This new punishment is not at all useful.

The old punishment (the slow down) was a way more effective punishment for missing a swing. So if your good with a sword, then you should have no problem with double gunners. The old punishment made you actually think about when to swing, this new one really does not.

And yes, that mechanic you use is greatly useful, I use it a lot, and others should too.

@graphical24 said in Sword Nerf Proposal:

In your statement, you list all of the possible moves and dynamics that could happen in a sword fight. But recently, I, as well as many others, have noticed a frequent (if not only) strategy, "Run and Swing".

...Okay? I'm not seeing a difference compared to how it's always been. The majority of people just come at you like a drunk, angry blender on legs. It happens in SoT, dark souls, chivalry, mordhau, and anything else involving melee combat. People who don't know what they're doing (or supposed to do) in melee combat don't devalue the depth of a weapon or game. And in all of them, you simply use the block/dodge/parry/etc mechanics as intended, to outplay their predictable attacks.

In case of SoT, you get far enough out the way for them to miss a swing, or you block their combo. They're left open for you to retaliate after that.

@groggy-mayles Before this update, yes, people would still use the "Run and Swing" strategy (mostly just new sailors).

But before this update, if I were to get into combat with another experienced sword user, all those sword combat dynamics I talk about would come into play. But with this new update, I've never seen anybody use those sword combat dynamics, even experienced players.

I think that with this new update, people only see the "Run and Swing" strategy as the only useful one.

All we need is a nerf/update to make the other dynamics viable.

@graphical24 I really don't understand what point you're trying to make though.

Yes, a lot of people play like angry blenders. They always have, always will, and will always be free kills 100% of the time for anyone who can figure out how to press the block button.

And personally I'm not seeing the decline in skill you claim to see. I'm still getting just as many people effectively using blocks and dodges to try and outplay me.

Sure if it's 2 or more ganged on me and/or they catch me with a gun out, they're going to blender me. And they damn well should; they want me dead asap and are going to do whatever they can to achieve that. What do you expect them to do, 1v1 me and give me food inbetween the fights? Get real.

The only noticeable change you're seeing now, is the sword got a well deserved buff to make it the king of close range (as it damn well should be). It stands a good chance against double guns now, so people are playing into that and just rushing with it. The moment you pull out a sword and block them, most of them either change up their tactic or die.

@galactic-geek Have you seen any other game "educate" their community about combat stratigies? No. They are meant to be found and used by the player themselves. Right now the only strategy people can find, and want to use, is the "Run and Swing" strategy.

We need to make the "Run and Swing" strategy non-viable. In order to restore the dynamics in fights.

We need to actually change the sword to acheive this. Not by "educating" players.

@graphical24 I still see smart and interesting sword duels in this update. I block, lunge, hop and use regular swings and I've had other other people use these techniques as well. It's just that a lot of the playerbase aren't that good with the sword.