@hxr141 people like you tell us we need to adapt to other players skills and tactics and then you get butt hurt when we find something to do just that.
Stop people placing crates on their anchor
@lordqulex said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
@captainbrrr1100 said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
@lordqulex Speaking as an experienced Boarder here.
Boarding isnt the meta if you get Screwed in the Rear by boarders then its a you problem, gaurd your ladders and be more vigilant its not that difficult I hate people like you who go on about how boarding is the meta when it isnt , If it is truly the meta why dont you board? you dont because you get screwed over you get ladder camped etc etc So you dont board so you tell me how boarding is the meta
There is always a way to prevent everything [mod edit].
See when I read this, all I see it "boarding isn't the meta, ladder guarding is". Why is ladder guarding more acceptable than stacking loot on the capstan? In what world are two equally viable solutions to the same problem not equally fair? If boarding isn't the meta, and isn't as strong as everyone thinks it is, then why are you trying to get on my ship in the first place? If people didn't board, you wouldn't need to ladder guard.
Do you understand what meta means?
Tools. Not. Rules. Boarding is a tool. Ladder guarding is a tool. Capstan mushrooms are a tool. Cannons are a tool. Chain shots are a tool. Blunder bombs are a tool. I've sunk players in hourglass by doing nothing but ramming. I've sunk players by boarding their ship and running them into rocks. These are all tools. All I see here are people complaining about the tools they don't like instead of adapting their tactics mid battle to represent the changing circumstances of said battle.
"No plan survives first contact with the enemy." D.D. Eisenhower. If your tool isn't working, try a different tool.
This all just seems like that one guy at the gym with huge pecs and arms but teeny tiny legs. Don't skip leg day people. If boarding isn't working, then, gasp, try dropping a sail. Try setting them on fire. Try blundering them off repairs. The OP is literally saying "the only tactic I'm good at doesn't work when people do this so make them stop doing this." No, you try a different tool.
@captainbrrr1100 said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
But then if its all a tool why do you need to stop people putting stuff on their anchor? if ur so good at adapting mid battle then why should it matter "just dont board" then its not an issue ur point has multiple flaws to it and it doesnt make any sense
I don't need people to stop putting stuff on their anchor. I think you're confused regarding which side I'm advocating for.
@pithyrumble said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
My ladder defense is superior to all of you!
Can't board what you can't get in cannon range of.
Anyway leave it in. It's fun. Get saucy and put a keg on it 😁
Now there's something I can get behind! I do love my a saucy keg play. 🧨
@dlchief58 I'm fine that it's a thing but describing lowering someone's anchor as a cheesy tactic makes you sound somewhat deluded, like you're seriously pushing the narrative in your own direction.
@burnbacon said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
I can’t wait for people to start a new meta…
Cover the ship in treasure chests to prevent people from using certain Keys/buttonsOr.
Cover ship in snakes….
XD
Next they'll consider it meta whenever somebody sets sail from a port/island.
So is loot stacking at the front of the ship also a ''cheap cheesy exploit'', because with sovereigns, you won't be able to steal it as the other crew will be able to sell the valuable stuff in no time?
It's their anchor, they can do as they please imo. I really don't have a problem with anyone doing it, even if it's a galleon chasing a solo sloop.
Imo, this is in the same ballpark as chest of rage barrel 'exploit' , crewmate on ladder with chest of sorrows 'exploit', kegs up the mast 'exploit'.
Would not care if they changed it either, but I don't support your suggestion OP. I would however preferer a rework of mechanics and have something similar as someone suggested, make the boarder interact with it for several seconds before being able to drop (then you can add the mechanic of preventing people to stack crates on the anchor).
If such rebalance was done, I would also like them to add similar mechanics to the wheel, sails, cannons and maybe even barrels. That after interacting with them for several seconds, they would become unusable for some time or until another player removes them.
For example tying ropes on the wheel to prevent it from moving, knotting sail ropes to prevent people from raising/lowering. Chainning barrels, stuffing cannons with something.
I would hope such implementations would be a counter balance for the spawn camp kill meta which is lame/outdated/poor sportsmanship.
@hiradc said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
@dlchief58 I'm fine that it's a thing but describing lowering someone's anchor as a cheesy tactic makes you sound somewhat deluded, like you're seriously pushing the narrative in your own direction.
I say that (as my opinion) because it takes no skill to do so - simply running by and tapping a button to stop the ship. I am not saying the actual boarding takes no skill, but tapping the capstan to immobilize the ship (followed inventively by the cheesy, no skill camping which occurs afterwards - how hard is it to wait & shoot fish in a barrel?) is. That is why it is done so much - low effort for a massive advantage in battle. If it wasn't so easy, why does it occur so often?
I'm not deluded, I have my eyes wide open to the big picture. It is you who is deluded if you think otherwise, defending your easy way to disable a ship for a massive advantage in the battle afterwards. Find a better tactics or variety in your attack if this simple defense thwarts your "easy button" mode so easily, not whine about removing a valid defense to it.
@lordqulex said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
Tools. Not. Rules. Boarding is a tool. Ladder guarding is a tool. Capstan mushrooms are a tool
Crates on anchor are not a tool, they are an exploit, a cheat of sorts. According to your logic, if someone found an exploit that makes them invincible or invisible you would consider that a tool as well?
This is why the "tools not rules" is too vague of a statement since some people spin it into an argument for keeping cheesy and unfair nonsensical mechanics.
Remember when the game was in its early stage and there was no wait time between switching guns and you could 2 tap someone instantly, imagine if people who suggested to balance that out get met with the argument "tools not rules, don't fix it". Bad mentality and it hurts the game in the long term.
@dlchief58 you keep using the term cheesy, fact is with semi competent crews you have to board and guard holes and spawn camp to secure the sink. Rare previously admitted in one of their official podcast that this is partly due to their game design.
It is very difficult to sink competent crews using naval alone without well timed curseballs (also cheesy?)
Your disdain for people who pvp comes through quite blatantly.
How can lowering the anchor which is a fully designed mechanic be cheese or dishonourable? Ships are easier to shoot when paralysed, I hope you get over some of these notions as it's an amazing game but people who expect others to have the same definition of conduct and acceptable behaviour in an open sandbox game (including pvp players who get frustrated at runners or people using crates on anchor) are only setting themselves up for frustration through bad expectations.
If you go back and check i had no issue with people using crates on anchor, its frustrating to encounter but they risk an anchor ball being their own demise. The fact is it is somewhat effective against low to mid range players and the ones you stand no chance against it doesn't affect the outcome either way.
@alienmagi said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
@lordqulex said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
Tools. Not. Rules. Boarding is a tool. Ladder guarding is a tool. Capstan mushrooms are a tool
Crates on anchor are not a tool, they are an exploit, a cheat of sorts. According to your logic, if someone found an exploit that makes them invincible or invisible you would consider that a tool as well?
This is why the "tools not rules" is too vague of a statement since some people spin it into an argument for keeping cheesy and unfair nonsensical mechanics.
Remember when the game was in its early stage and there was no wait time between switching guns and you could 2 tap someone instantly, imagine if people who suggested to balance that out get met with the argument "tools not rules, don't fix it". Bad mentality and it hurts the game in the long term.
The difference IMO between an exploit and a tactic is the difference between a core game mechanic and an optional game mechanic. Seeing and killing other pirates and ships is a core game mechanic, so becoming invincible or invisible is a bug/exploit. Dropping someone's anchor is an optional mechanic, you don't have to do it to win, so stacking objects on the capstan is a tactic.
I'm sorry, but again when someone argues for forcing players not to stack objects on their capstan by changing the game engine, all I hear is "you've nerfed the only thing I'm good at so make others stop doing it!!" It's a valid tactic only because dropping the other ships anchor is a valid tactic. I can't fathom why people don't understand dropping the capstan is powerful. Immobilizing your target has been known to be good for as long as human on human violence.
"But it won't stop good crews!" Ok, well, not everyone is as good as you. Can you accept that? Do you understand the law of averages and bell curves? And even if in your opinion it's not good against "good" crews, I will still disagree. Anything that gets the crews off patching and off cannons is effective. Sinking an enemy ship is about distractions. They can't patch holes if they're raising the anchor. They can't raise the anchor is they're bucketing. They can't bucket if they're raising the sail. They can't raise the sail if they're eating food. Sinking an enemy ship is about giving the other crew too many things to do and not enough time to do it. Dropping the anchor is always effective, but it's efficacy is variable based on the crew, agreed. But if dropping the anchor is a valid tactic, then putting stuff on the capstan is a valid tactic.
@pumpa-cat said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
Reading these posts bought a sudden image to my mind of the Highway Patrol pursuing somebody in a car that is failing to stop. Other HP officers further up the road deploy a stinger which immobilises the car. The suspect then complains that the use of a stinger is unfair. 🤣
This is hilarious, but I do have to call out @HiradC and his valid concern. What defines an exploit, and what defines a tool. As a game designer, that is actually a very good and very difficult question. You're making me think of the movie Hancock. Stingers are not an exploit, but if a cop flies out of a car window, lands in front of my car, and shoulders into it making me come to a screeching halt is. It breaks the "rules" of this world as we know it. Cops can't fly and they're not invulnerable.
I have to give props to other posters because they have some very good examples. You can't put anything on the map table. I don't know why the devs chose to do that, but it's an example. They probably could with some work prevent players from putting stuff on the capstan. The question I guess is does this constitute a tactic or an exploit.
Me and my crew don't do it...and as the primary boarder for my crew, I get frustrated when I encounter it.
That said, I do think that removing this tactic would need to be complimented by a slight alteration to dropping the anchor.
Right now, it's a super easy/fast interact whether you're a part of the crew or not.
Similar to syphoning supplies via a storage crate or stealing a map bundle, or how they eliminated resurrecting on enemy ships....there should be something done to the anchor if you're not part of the crew.
Make it take just a little bit longer...not crazy long...but just a hair. Maybe as long as it takes to pick something up off the stove. Just that fraction of a second that makes it a more challenging tactic than it is today (without an anchor muffin).
As it stands, it's too easy to just skirt around the capstan and lower it...that's why people have found a counter-measure in the anchor-muffin.
Either leave anchor-muffin as a tactic, or eliminate it and make an alteration to the capstan interact...I'm fine with it either way, but there's no reason that the boarding meta should be made easier than it already is.
@pumpa-cat said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
@lordqulex said
Cops can’t fly
Yes they can. They have helicopters.
Sorry, couldn’t resist. 🤣
I hate you. I love you. Never stop. 🤣🤣🤣
@hiradc said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
@dlchief58 you keep using the term cheesy, fact is with semi competent crews you have to board and guard holes and spawn camp to secure the sink. Rare previously admitted in one of their official podcast that this is partly due to their game design.
It is very difficult to sink competent crews using naval alone without well timed curseballs (also cheesy?)
Your disdain for people who pvp comes through quite blatantly.
How can lowering the anchor which is a fully designed mechanic be cheese or dishonourable? Ships are easier to shoot when paralysed, I hope you get over some of these notions as it's an amazing game but people who expect others to have the same definition of conduct and acceptable behaviour in an open sandbox game (including pvp players who get frustrated at runners or people using crates on anchor) are only setting themselves up for frustration through bad expectations.
If you go back and check i had no issue with people using crates on anchor, its frustrating to encounter but they risk an anchor ball being their own demise. The fact is it is somewhat effective against low to mid range players and the ones you stand no chance against it doesn't affect the outcome either way.
Way to gaslight. I have no issue with PvP, not one bit. Not once had I said that or even implied it....now who is trying to change the narrative to suit their own ends with false, uninformed statements?
I've also been clear in the past saying while spawn-camping is a "no skill" tactic which is frowned upon in almost every other shooting game out there, it is also unavoidable many times due to the limited space and spawn points on the ships. No problem with people defending the holes, big problem with them camping spawn points specifically - fish in a barrel like I said.
I stand by my analysis - the meta of merely tapping the capstan to stop a boat is a cheesy, no skill move. I never once called it an exploit nor "dishonourable" (I've in fact called out many people using the "dishonourable" excuse to criticize/demonize running as opposed to staying to fight, tucking, double teaming or camping outposts with the fact that "pirates are not honorable characters"), just think it is a easy cheesy way to victory that is unbalanced towards the invaders - people defending on their own boat should be at a slight advantage. Simple way to prevent that is to have it take longer for enemy boarders to drop the anchor - make them a vulnerable for a couple of seconds while trying to drop the anchor instead of just running by and tapping it. I have always been of the mind that crews should have a slight advantage of defending their own ship as they should be more familiar with it than the boarders.
The problem I and others have is that it is too easy to accomplish this, thus has become a meta and leads to boring, predictable battles that are often one sided. Yeah I know, keep the guard the ladders, blah blah blah. Easier said than done when you are spammed with boarders repeatedly when outnumbered. For me, this is generally no problem as I usually have no issue avoiding being boarded by outsailing them. But whenever it does happen, it is always the same boring tactics and puts solo players at a severe disadvantage. Hence my support and praise for those who take the time to stack their capstan to prevent it - I personally don't keep treasure on board long enough to engage in this practice to any extent.
@conceitedox8550 said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
Can you stack crates and such over your boat's built-in ammo crate? I don't actually know, but I don't think you can. The rules should be the same for the two.
I disagree for the same reason mentioned above (though I forget who said it and I'm lazy). If you want to cover your own capstan and your own ammo crate, it also means that it takes you longer to access those components as well. It's a risk/benefit analysis that every crew has to do on their own. Though to be honest I would never cover my ammo crate because generally I use it to ladder guard much more than an invader on my ship uses it to kill me, and my access to it is way more important than denying it to an invader, but that's a crew's decision to make.
@lordqulex said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
@conceitedox8550 said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
Can you stack crates and such over your boat's built-in ammo crate? I don't actually know, but I don't think you can. The rules should be the same for the two.
I disagree for the same reason mentioned above (though I forget who said it and I'm lazy). If you want to cover your own capstan and your own ammo crate, it also means that it takes you longer to access those components as well. It's a risk/benefit analysis that every crew has to do on their own. Though to be honest I would never cover my ammo crate because generally I use it to ladder guard much more than an invader on my ship uses it to kill me, and my access to it is way more important than denying it to an invader, but that's a crew's decision to make.
Wait, sorry, they said the rule should be the same for the Capstan and the Ammo Crate, and you disagree? So you think the rules should be different for the two? But then you seemed to argue for the opposite. I'm lost.
@gtothefo said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
@lordqulex said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
@conceitedox8550 said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
Can you stack crates and such over your boat's built-in ammo crate? I don't actually know, but I don't think you can. The rules should be the same for the two.
I disagree for the same reason mentioned above (though I forget who said it and I'm lazy). If you want to cover your own capstan and your own ammo crate, it also means that it takes you longer to access those components as well. It's a risk/benefit analysis that every crew has to do on their own. Though to be honest I would never cover my ammo crate because generally I use it to ladder guard much more than an invader on my ship uses it to kill me, and my access to it is way more important than denying it to an invader, but that's a crew's decision to make.
Wait, sorry, they said the rule should be the same for the Capstan and the Ammo Crate, and you disagree? So you think the rules should be different for the two? But then you seemed to argue for the opposite. I'm lost.
My apologies. It should be the same and it should be allowed in both instances IMO.
@lordqulex said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
My apologies. It should be the same and it should be allowed in both instances IMO.
Cool. Its just, you know, enough of these threads are just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing without disagreeing when you don't even mean to. Ox was just saying that they didn't think you could stack on your ammo crate and that the two should have the same rule, they didn't say if they thought that meant you shouldn't be able to stack on the capstan or you should be able to stack on the ammo crate.
@hxr141 said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
Please watch the clip to see why crates shouldn’t be stacked on the anchor.
Simply add a barrier above anchor like there is above map table.
Tools not rules
@shadow20642 said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
@hxr141 said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
Please watch the clip to see why crates shouldn’t be stacked on the anchor.
Simply add a barrier above anchor like there is above map table.
Tools not rules
The thing is, that's not really an answer. The anchor needs to be either something you can balance things on or not, its not a rule is being applied where one doesn't need to exist, it being one or the other is arbitrary, its not a clean tools/rules thing. A rule has been chosen, a rule is in place. If anything, the idea of being able to balance an entire full treasure chest on what is essentially a horizontally held broom pole and have it stay there in high seas is kinda stupid. As is the breaking of immersion where you run up, clearly wanting to grab the still visible pole and have your pirate think you'd rather stand around looking through a wood crate.
@gtothefo said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
@shadow20642 said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
@hxr141 said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
Please watch the clip to see why crates shouldn’t be stacked on the anchor.
Simply add a barrier above anchor like there is above map table.
Tools not rules
The thing is, that's not really an answer. The anchor needs to be either something you can balance things on or not, its not a rule is being applied where one doesn't need to exist, it being one or the other is arbitrary, its not a clean tools/rules thing. A rule has been chosen, a rule is in place. If anything, the idea of being able to balance an entire full treasure chest on what is essentially a horizontally held broom pole and have it stay there in high seas is kinda stupid. As is the breaking of immersion where you run up, clearly wanting to grab the still visible pole and have your pirate think you'd rather stand around looking through a wood crate.
How about firing yourself out of the cannon? Is that realistic? Does it break your immersion? How about leaping off of a mountain top and hitting the water at terminal velocity and not breaking every bone in your body, is that realistic? Does it break your immersion?
This is a game and we're talking about the game rules, not things that break your verisimilitude.
@lordqulex said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
@gtothefo said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
@shadow20642 said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
@hxr141 said in Stop people placing crates on their anchor:
Please watch the clip to see why crates shouldn’t be stacked on the anchor.
Simply add a barrier above anchor like there is above map table.
Tools not rules
The thing is, that's not really an answer. The anchor needs to be either something you can balance things on or not, its not a rule is being applied where one doesn't need to exist, it being one or the other is arbitrary, its not a clean tools/rules thing. A rule has been chosen, a rule is in place. If anything, the idea of being able to balance an entire full treasure chest on what is essentially a horizontally held broom pole and have it stay there in high seas is kinda stupid. As is the breaking of immersion where you run up, clearly wanting to grab the still visible pole and have your pirate think you'd rather stand around looking through a wood crate.
How about firing yourself out of the cannon? Is that realistic? Does it break your immersion? How about leaping off of a mountain top and hitting the water at terminal velocity and not breaking every bone in your body, is that realistic? Does it break your immersion?
This is a game and we're talking about the game rules, not things that break your verisimilitude.
Shooting out of cannons and landing on a deck and sword lunges lol! If we're talking realistic and immersion you wouldn't even be able to even drop anchor in the middle of the sea anyways, you can only do it in shallower water nearer shore!
What? you mean Pirates actually making it difficult for you to kill them and steal their loot? Doesn't sound very piratey to me... Probably even new or as you say unskilled Pirates or shorthanded crews? I'm useless at guarding my ladders because I'm deaf in one ear lol, I sometimes hear a splash but have to have sight on both ladders at the same time and that doesn't always work out too well with a blundie near the capstan..
Seriously if they are so useless and unskilled why don't you just realise that after the first attempt and adjust tactics and kill them in combat then drop the anchor or something? Some people think they have to go straight for the anchor when they board which in itself is showing a bit of a lack of experience and tactics.
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