So I just read that Fortnite is getting some kind of input-based matchmaking. Could this be something that could be a solution for Sea of Thieves?
On PC and want to play with friends on Xbox? Use a controller and you can. Want to use a keyboard & mouse. No problem. But you will be only matchmaked with other that do so.
This would level the playing field but still give everyone the option to play together.
@zannarii said in Input-based matchmaking:
Wow those threads getting uncountable, feels like spamming
Adding constructive feedback in the feedback section of the forum is not spam.
@binaryplayerone Get ready for the wave of people assuming that they're the advocate for Sea of Thieves and saying that this would segregate the community in some way :/
In all seriousness though, I'm all for optional cross-play but matching people based on input devices could lead to a plethra of problems regarding players who plug in a controller but use a keyboard (or visa versa).
As a quick and harmless statement I believe that simply giving players the option to enable or disable crossplay would be a much more ethical solution for everyone. This is my opinion, it is not going to change; if you want to start an argument over crossplay then I'm not going to respond. Sorry if I seem ignorant or arrogant but I seriously don't want to waste my time arguing with randoms over the internet (more than I already have at least).
@thealcani said in Input-based matchmaking:
GTA online - switch mouse and controller mid shooting without problems. just allow both and if ppl deside to use something they cant handle its up to them...
You can do the same in Sea of Thieves. So there would have to be changes made to that you cant change or that if you do you will get a message that you will be kicked out of the game if you dont continue to use the input-device you started with.
If this is even technically feasible I dont know.
Cross-play and putting controller and keyboard & mouse players up against each other is a topic that has been actively discussed and complained about from players for almost a half year now since the game launched.
Dismissing it and "get gud" comments wont do anymore in my opinion. These are costumers and Rare and everyone of us that care about Sea of Thieves should listen to these players and try to find a middle ground.
@spunkus-skunkus said in Input-based matchmaking:
@binaryplayerone Get ready for the wave of people assuming that they're the advocate for Sea of Thieves and saying that this would segregate the community in some way :/
In all seriousness though, I'm all for optional cross-play but matching people based on input devices could lead to a plethra of problems regarding players who plug in a controller but use a keyboard (or visa versa).
As a quick and harmless statement I believe that simply giving players the option to enable or disable crossplay would be a much more ethical solution for everyone. This is my opinion, it is not going to change; if you want to start an argument over crossplay then I'm not going to respond. Sorry if I seem ignorant or arrogant but I seriously don't want to waste my time arguing with randoms over the internet (more than I already have at least).
There would have to a safe guard of some kind to not let people trick the game. If that's even possible I dont know. Once you start to play with a controller on a PC you would not be able to change in that game sessions. If that's even technically feasible I dont know.
I dont belive giving players the option to turn off cross-play is a good idea. I am all for bringing players together regardless of plattform trough cross-play. And giving players the option to limit the number of players you can reach is never a good idea in the big picture.
If we look past on how Rare would ensure no one is cheating. Input-lag matchmaking could be the best chance Sea of Thieves have to keep the playerbase as large as possible and without giving some a competitive edge. And ensuring that people can still play together.
@spunkus-skunkus said in Input-based matchmaking:
@binaryplayerone Get ready for the wave of people assuming that they're the advocate for Sea of Thieves and saying that this would segregate the community in some way :/
In all seriousness though, I'm all for optional cross-play but matching people based on input devices could lead to a plethra of problems regarding players who plug in a controller but use a keyboard (or visa versa).
As a quick and harmless statement I believe that simply giving players the option to enable or disable crossplay would be a much more ethical solution for everyone. This is my opinion, it is not going to change; if you want to start an argument over crossplay then I'm not going to respond. Sorry if I seem ignorant or arrogant but I seriously don't want to waste my time arguing with randoms over the internet (more than I already have at least).
"I believe that simply giving players the option to enable or disable crossplay would be a much more ethical solution for everyone"
-how would that benefit the PC community?
-will the development of 2 different game versions affect the overall development of the game? or will it cause more Xbox players to turn off crossplay?
-how will you make sure that an Xbox1X with a Keyboard/Mouse be on the same level playing field as a player with an Xbox with a regular controller?
at least as a PC player I would be willing to compromise to be matched with similar controller input (however, my steam controller can do MUCH more than your Elite controller) so i don't know how you will balance that.
i say this on every thread (every hour) about PC/Xbox or Controller/MK threads
optional (aka removing) crossplay is just a bandaid solution to the bigger problem.
It is better to find a solution to balance out K/M and Controllers instead of splitting up servers depending on external hardware. PC players have always had to deal with different hardware in our gaming. some people play at 20FPS on a 15 inch screen with a 9,99 mouse and keyboard combo they got at Walmart while others play with a full set 300$ Razer Gaming Keyboard and Mouse with unlimited configuration capabilities at 144FPS on a 27inch gaming monitor with G-sync. Why can't Xbox players learn to deal with the differences? in the end, you get what you paid for.
and don't come here with your
"I bought a console because I wanted a level playing field" BS
You bought a console because it was cheap and convenient. Your level playing field arguments has no weight when you have 3 different consoles each with better hardware than the last with 3 different controllers each with better features than the last and a Mouse and Keyboard Microsoft support coming around the corner.
@binaryplayerone said in Input-based matchmaking:
So I just read that Fortnite is getting some kind of input-based matchmaking. Could this be something that could be a solution for Sea of Thieves?
On PC and want to play with friends on Xbox? Use a controller and you can. Want to use a keyboard & mouse. No problem. But you will be only matchmaked with other that do so.
This would level the playing field but still give everyone the option to play together.
I don't think it would work, on the grounds of how these games differ. Sea of Thieves has no form of matchmaking, elo system, or ranking. One of these listed would need to be in the game first before they could do something along those lines. Currently its all random with random people.
How would that work with multiple peripheral crews? Do they automatically get lumped with one person their crews imput? I believe their would be a better chance if they were to adjust the game rather than do something like this. For example, buff ship on ship combat, or nerfing Repairs. Encourage players to remain on their ship, rather then fight the enemy gun on gun.
I just think their is a better approach then splitting the community.
@squaz05 Just re-read the second sentence of my last paragraph and consider if what you wrote was actually worth your time.
That's all, have a good day/night.
@binaryplayerone For sure, input-lag match making seems like a much more ethical solution for the time being. It just seems that every lobby I'm put into (even with a full crew of Aussies) is always on an American or European server.
Everyone can argue about crossplay all they like, but you can't argue that Australians playing on American servers is fair.
@squaz05 It doesnt negatively affect PC players. Those players already decided that they dont want to play with you. There is enough players to populate PC servers, it will not 'kill the game' on PC like many claim.
How exactly will optional crossplay create 2 different games? Surely patches, content, updates and dlc will all be developed at the same time, and applied at the same time...it will be different server setups, not 2 separate games. Exactly as it is now, with some server options. If what you say is true, the xbox version would be less buggy, less glitchy and so on, because they are creating for 3 xbox variants, not thousands of PC variations. But again, this isnt the case, it would still be one game, one community.
The comments regarding 'divergent interests' resulting in different games which has appeared on other xplay threads is also rubbish. If enough people like or dislike something, Rare adds content/changes to please customers. These sorts of changes are applied to the whole game, not just an 'xbox' version. One community after all.
Now onto the kbm or controllers...if MS are suggesting separating based on input, they are saying that because they are aware of the disparity. If an xbox is running kbm, they should be put in a kbm/PC server which will be easy, as xbox will determine your input. If you want to talk about PC users selecting controller servers, then using kbm because they can, i would reply that you are helping to build a strong case for separation. The xbox will be able to detect input device and control its level playing field. How do you propose to 'reign in' PC players abusing the system?
Your 'bandaid solution'...Its a perfect solution for EVERY xbox user. They get to make a decision, not a PC player making a decision for them. Its a bandaid solution for PC players because
a) you cannot control what input is being used at any time, meaning kbm and controller separation will not be effective
b)apparent low numbers of PC players cant fill their own servers so PC/Xbox separation wont work.
It appears to me that as far as the xbox goes, the solution is simple. All the problems are coming from the other side. Why should xboxers be at a disadvantage because PC players cant support their own community or can game the system?Instead of dismissing everybody elses ideas, how bout you come up with some? Dont say 'balance kbm with controller.' Its not possible.
And as I said to you in a different xplay thread, i buy consoles due to the level playing field, to get away from PC gaming. So did alot of people. Stop calling us liars.When you compare the 3 xboxes, you are looking at 2 or 3 seconds of loading between each model. The 4k ability offers no PVP advantage. The elite controller allows you to move a few buttons, not hotkey 27 different things. Xbox IS a level playing field when compared to the thousands of variants possible on PC.
it's about time someone brought this up ;) +1 for you sir
in my opinion from what i've read from this forum
the real reason the pc player complains is not the fact that they can't fill the servers , its about loosing their advantage over the majority of the players.
optional crossplatform will not split the player base it will only make the community grow more , and allot of xbox players will return playing this game if they know they have a level playing field.
@pomalotacusmk3 said in Input-based matchmaking:
@squaz05 It doesnt negatively affect PC players. Those players already decided that they dont want to play with you. There is enough players to populate PC servers, it will not 'kill the game' on PC like many claim.
It wont kill the game, but it will make matchmaking last much longer than it already does. Matchmaking tries to the best it can to match language, region, ping. Also not everyone is on at the same time. (what is the concurrent players not total? now remove 86% being on Xbox, remove those at work or at school, remove those sleeping in other timezones...) this is what PC players are worried about... 5-10 minutes matchmaking only to end up in a server with 2 boats... I mean already people are complaining about empty servers can you imagine if you remove 86% of the player base to PC players?
How exactly will optional crossplay create 2 different games? Surely patches, content, updates and dlc will all be developed at the same time, and applied at the same time...it will be different server setups, not 2 separate games. Exactly as it is now, with some server options. If what you say is true, the xbox version would be less buggy, less glitchy and so on, because they are creating for 3 xbox variants, not thousands of PC variations. But again, this isnt the case, it would still be one game, one community.
Content and patches will be the same, however the game balancing won't be. One example is Auto-Aim that will be requested and added if there are only Xbox/controller servers only. Do you think Xbox players will want to play with their PC friends if it means their auto-aim is removed? Xbox app vs ingame voice vs discord? what is the priority? do we fix the xbox app for PC? do we remove ingame chat? what is the priority in development bug fixing?
The comments regarding 'divergent interests' resulting in different games which has appeared on other xplay threads is also rubbish. If enough people like or dislike something, Rare adds content/changes to please customers. These sorts of changes are applied to the whole game, not just an 'xbox' version. One community after all.
oh yeah lets add auto aim to PC servers... see how that goes... or lets integrate xbox party voice chat to PC servers... see who uses it...
Now onto the kbm or controllers...if MS are suggesting separating based on input, they are saying that because they are aware of the disparity. If an xbox is running kbm, they should be put in a kbm/PC server which will be easy, as xbox will determine your input. If you want to talk about PC users selecting controller servers, then using kbm because they can, i would reply that you are helping to build a strong case for separation. The xbox will be able to detect input device and control its level playing field. How do you propose to 'reign in' PC players abusing the system?
let me stop you right there.
Your 'bandaid solution'...Its a perfect solution for EVERY xbox user. They get to make a decision, not a PC player making a decision for them. Its a bandaid solution for PC players because
a) you cannot control what input is being used at any time, meaning kbm and controller separation will not be effective
b)apparent low numbers of PC players cant fill their own servers so PC/Xbox separation wont work.
It appears to me that as far as the xbox goes, the solution is simple. All the problems are coming from the other side. Why should xboxers be at a disadvantage because PC players cant support their own community or can game the system?Instead of dismissing everybody elses ideas, how bout you come up with some? Dont say 'balance kbm with controller.' Its not possible.
Bandaid solution is peftect for XBOX players so screw the PC player's concerns. if the PC market crashes it doesn't matter we are enough players to keep this game alive and healthy...
that's what that it sounds like you are saying.
i'm not dismissing the ideas i've (and many others) have explained how optional crossplay will not help fix the issues you claim to have. You just refuse to acknowledge it
And as I said to you in a different xplay thread, i buy consoles due to the level playing field, to get away from PC gaming. So did alot of people. Stop calling us liars.When you compare the 3 xboxes, you are looking at 2 or 3 seconds of loading between each model. The 4k ability offers no PVP advantage. The elite controller allows you to move a few buttons, not hotkey 27 different things. Xbox IS a level playing field when compared to the thousands of variants possible on PC.
an average PC loads as fast as your xbox1x. a top of the line expensive PC that very few people have will load 2-3 seconds faster than your xbox1x... so not really an issue according to your logic.
as for the xbox controller... look up the Mapping of Elite Dangerous for controllers see how much you can map a regular xbox1 controller scheme.
from reading your post, your attitude towards the PC crowd is more of a
who care what happens to them as long as my xbox community is good
most PC players are saying, "lets all learn and change the game so we can co-exist" while you xbox players are "G**O out of my game YOU HACKERS!"
@squaz05 Matchmaking...nope, i search for 5 seconds then get put in a server with players from all over the globe, regardless of what time i search. You just play the game, not go ask every ship where they are from. Thats the matchmaking Rare has provided, and it works as intended. Or are you suggesting that PC players are checking their ping and relogging till they get a local server? Coz xbox cant view ping, this would be ANOTHER PC exploit which unlevels the matchmaking. Also, if server merge is working, players will be in full-ish lobbies all the time. Another poin here...if people are complaining about empty servers NOW, removing 86% or even 99% will make no difference at all, still empty dude. People have tried to use the 'empty server complaints' line in xplay threads before. Just stop, if the server merge is broken, then THAT is responsible for empty servers, NOT due to a lack of numbers.
Auto aim...you grasping at straws here dude, there is no auto aim, and there doesn't need to be auto aim. Or are people posting every day for auto aim? Got any other reasons why optional crossplay will create 2 different games? PC players always use discord or similar. Xboxers can use smartphone discord or party chat,there is no issue here, still one community. Also, I dont think Rare would have anything to do with fixing the XBOX APP(not called the RARE APP). The chat problems are there- for example, PC players not hearingor not being heard when joining an xbox party, also gamechat is hit and miss when coming across players on other platforms, but this needs correcting regardless of optional crossplay. Still one community.
As has been said on other threads, this is a sandbox game and people can play however they want. Whether it is competitive or not is EACH players' decision, and can change from moment to moment. There are no leaderboards, but if you break an alliance, you better believe it just got competitive.Im not going to list all the scenarios where SoT is competitive, but there are lots. SoT can be and is cometitive. You have no control over someone else's playstyle. Therefore the separation based on input recommended by MS is valid. Based on your previous posts in other threads, PC's ability to use ANY input, even after selecting a controller server is a problem. You appear to be suggesting that PC players cannot be trusted to play fair. Maybe kbm and controller separation will not work. I would suggest the following...
Server type 1 consists of everyone, regardless of platform or input. Default setting upon booting the game.
Server type 2 consists of verified controller only users. Xbox will determine if you arent using a controller and put you in server type 1. If PC users can come up with a method of managing inputs, they can also join server type 2. I have no idea how this could be done as im not a programmer. Maybe something that disables all kbm function, besides alt, tab, and esc while SoT is in fullscreen mode? I really dont know.(does pc still have full screen problems? still running in windowed mode?idk)
And really? You are still comparing elite controllers to kbm advantag? lol. If xboxers were concerned about the advantages of xb1/s/x/elite, you would see lots of posts on the cod, halo, battlefield forums. There isnt. The only input and hardware complaints were regarding kbm/xim users. They get banned. Please stop using these things as reasons, because PC are the only ones using these arrguments.
No, i am not saying 'screw the PC market' .Im saying that EVERY solution that is presented, is shut down because of problems coming from the PC side. EG input separation won't work coz you can use any input at any time, while xbox will be able to detect and separate. Eg PC player low numbers prevents platform separation(this is false, 24 player, global instances)..Small population(kbm) is NO reason to give one group an advantage over another(controller).
Optional crossplay DOES solve the problem.I would be playing against 99.999% controller users.I would likely NEVER see one of the 7 people using xim. Much better odds than 16% PC users. BTW, you keep pointing out that SoT is not competitive. Someone that buys xim strikes me as a competitive type, so they are probably playing cod or battlefield. Or would you admit that SoT is competitive enough to warrant xim? What im suggesting is that xim and non-competitive don't really go together. Again, optional xplay does solve the problem on xbox. If you believe there is balancing issues on PC in regards to input and hardware, i suggest you make a 'PC BALANCING' thread, because a PC controller user being at a disadvantage to a kbm user has NOTHING to do with crossplay. If SoT was a pc only title, you would still have input disparity, so its not really valid in the crossplay discussion.
Sorry but loading times are WAAAAY down the list on xplay problems, and that is the only advantage an x has over previous models, so i don't see why you keep bringing it up. No one is complaining about load times, but you keep suggesting that xb1x is so much better that it should have separate servers. No one on Xbox thinks this, same goes for elite controllers. My xb1x takes over 2 minutes to load. Even mid range PCs dont take that long, your 2-3 seconds is wildly inaccurate. Yes, you are correct, i have no problems with a PC loading faster, as long as the ferry load time is well controlled. From death to respawn should ALWAYS be the same.
And please, go back though ANY of the xplay threads, feel free to copy and paste ANY TIME where i went on a rant about hackers. I'll save you sometime, I havent done that. Just another weak argument to close off a post.
The fact that you seem opposed to separation, to me, says that YOU don't care about the pre-existing xbox community, their values, their level playing field or their concerns. Your opinion seems to be 'Too bad, we are here now, we have advantages, too bad, get over it'. See how easy it is to misinterpret someone and paint them(or their entire community) as the bad guy?
