Lets improve the Kraken!

  • AngryCoconut16

    So there have been several threads discussing the current state of the kraken and what players don't like about the kraken, I thought lets change it around and have a positive thread about what we'd like to see from the kraken?

    At the moment I'd say the kraken could be a lot worse, but at the same time at the moment it doesn't quite hit the mark when it comes to the whole 'striking fear' into players aspect, which I think is vital for the kraken - more than any other AI boss! I don't know what Rare want to do with AI bosses/threats but the kraken needs to stand above in terms of fear, it needs to feel like something autonomous, which can't be commanded by players, which has a mind of its own, and when you see the first signs of its attack, it needs to strike a feeling of 'OH NO!' into the heart of the players.

    Here are some of my suggestions for improvement. I'd love to hear yours as well so that we can come up with ideas about how to make this beast truly worthy of the name 'Kraken'. Keep in mind it needs to be something which we imagine the devs could readily achieve, for instance on another thread I saw someone suggesting that the kraken should be able to create maelstroms and a storm... I think that's a bit over the top :P

    Quality of life changes:

    • Tentacles closer together
      At the moment they're quite far apart, to the point that it doesn't really give the effect of coming from a single creature.. they should be a bit closer, and they shouldn't be coming out of the water at a 100% vertical angle, but angled as if they were coming from a central body. Make it feel like there really is a giant squid-like creature under your ship/near your ship, rather than a bunch of sea snakes or something XD

    • Head
      Add a head, please. :P If I fall into the water I'd like to see a giant eye stare at me for instance. If this is added, I don't think it is necessary for the sea to get dark immediately - I'd find it SO much scarier to see the head of a kraken travelling towards me rather than some darkness! Perhaps the sea can get dark at different points during the fight because it sprays ink? Maybe this makes it more difficult (and scary) if you fall in as you don't actually know where the head is! It can be a self defence mechanism for the kraken.

    • Tentacles in rocks
      I saw one video where one of the tentacles was literally in a rock, and the mouth poked out every so often, this ought to be fixed if it hasn't been already, no tentacles spawning near rocks :)

    Make it scarier/more aggressive

    The tentacles should always be doing stuff, sometimes it really feels like they kinda rise into the air and then just sit there... doing not much of anything. I've seen one kraken encounter in game, and I saw the kraken rock a galleon violently, that was super cool, but after that the fight got a bit boring.. so I've got a few suggestions of other ways it could keep the fight interesting and make it a bit more dangerous...

    • The tentacles should be able to hit the boat, creating holes which need to be repaired

    • I like the mouths on the tentacles. I suppose it makes it Rare's unique take on the kraken, whilst at the same time the 'sucking' feature is probably a lot less buggy than tentacles trying to wrap around players! How about these mouths can also shoot ink projectiles onto the ship? They could be programmed in a similar way to cannon balls, with a different animation. These leave a puddle of ink on the deck which slow players? Damage players? Make players slip and lose control of their character briefly? Perhaps if the puddle lands on the side of the ship it's corrosive and can create holes?

    • If the kraken does get a head, if you fall in, perhaps it can suck you in the same way the tentacles do BUT if you get sucked in this part, you are killed, as you are eaten :P

    • A large tentacle can move violently and splash a lot of water onto the ship? OR maybe it can create a small wave which gets bigger as it travels to your ship, and then rocks your boat violently when it hits

    • I know it would be too difficult and buggy to program it to snap your mast for instance, but how about the tentacles can smash onto your deck and hit the cannons. This breaks the wooden structure supporting the cannon, meaning that cannon can no longer be used. This can be fixed using planks.

    Other ideas

    • The kraken should not be this constant area of black ink, but literally the creature itself. When you look into the water, you want to see a massive creature swimming, just like you can see sharks under the water... the ink should be purely for defense/combat

    • The Kraken should roam the world but only when it has spawned. Make the Kraken roar mean something - if you hear it, you know it has spawned somewhere on your server, and literally everyone on the server will fear it, as you have no idea at all where it is, you just know it is somewhere in your ocean.. is it on its way to your island? Or is it on the opposite side of the ocean? Who knows... 'Cue the effect of coming back aboard your ship and seeing the massive creature swim past your ship to attack someone else... OR coming straight towards your ship...'

    • Cosmetics! Some sort of system whereby you can unlock all sorts of unique kraken cosmetics, sails, clothes, weapons etc... Perhaps for surviving X encounters they can be unlocked. I do like the idea of physical rewards though, perhaps each player gets a kraken tooth, or ink in their inventory for instance to show the NPC proof of the victory

    • When the kraken is defeated, a few chests, skulls etc rise to the surface. I am not fussed about this personally as I'd be completely happy with purely cosmetics unique to the kraken, but I do like the idea of it releasing loot it has eaten from previous victims..

    • The idea of 'close encounters'. Picture this, you hear a loud bang, and your ship stops moving. You hear a roar. You are like 'oh god! not a kraken attack!' You hear the sound of water rushing and you look under your ship to see the kraken zoom past under your ship/next to your ship. Clearly you aren't it's target.... but seeing a giant creature zoom past would be so cool/scary... thanks to @lOOpct for the idea :) I think this is such an exciting idea and would add a whole other level of immersion to the kraken as a creature in this world :)

    What we already love about the kraken
    I don't want it to feel like we are raining on the current kraken, there are some really awesome things I love about it, lets show the devs some love too? :)

    • The roar when the kraken first attacks and the sea gets dark is super foreboding! And I love the roars throughout the fight

    • When you are sucked into the tentacle, man, it looks like it's such a beautiful experience haha, I mean I know you're supposed to be scared but you get to look at the sea from a perspective you don't normally see and the way the sun glistens on the sea is really nice xD

    • The tentacles themselves look really good!

    • The music which starts during the fight is a really good choice

    I'd really REALLY value the opinion of anyone who has actually fought it! My opinions are coming from several youtube videos I've watched, and a single encounter I witnessed in game and was watching from a distance with my spyglass :P I would have loved to get the experience of fighting it before making this thread but I can't really predict when this will happen obviously ;)

    Also.. does anyone have any idea how the kraken works? I've heard multiple people say each time you encounter it, it gets more difficult, does anyone have any evidence for this rather than speculation?

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  • JeanLuc Gaming
    Marauder

    @angrycoconut16 Im still going to argue about the weird mouths at the end of the tentacles but otherwise I agree entirely

  • AngryCoconut16

    @jeanluc-gaming Haha, I do see where you are coming from for sure :) It's certainly different. I'd much rather the tentacles moved around the deck violently trying to grab players but I totally appreciate how that could be incredibly buggy in comparison to this solution.

    Plus in a sense I respect Rare for using their own design and trying to make their kraken unique to them in their game :)

  • Lil Fokker
    Master
    Insider

    I agree on all of the points...critiques and praises.

    • The water splashing from thrashing tentacles.
    • The inky water that envelopes your ship is so slow and menacing.....LOVE IT.
    • keep the water super merky but Must see the beast under the water!!!
    • What if 3 or 4 tentacles picked up the ship and tilted it nearly being upside down?! This is not for every battle but the rarer ones.

    I used to fear it but now we know exactly how to fight it off....it's becoming just a mere nuisance rather than a mysterious Titanic monster.

    Hopefully, rare won't just leave it as is and focus solely on a new monster/s....cuz soon enough, nobody but noobs will fear the kraken.

  • HorizonLegendo
    Ship Mate

    I always imagine that the tentacles would feed a large mouth. The mouth only appears when someone is being sucked up and you have a chance to hit it when you are pulled closer to be eaten.

  • xSkkyz

    @angrycoconut16 Really good idea, I agree.

  • UrihamRayne
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    "it needs to strike a feeling of 'OH NO!' into the heart of the players."
    "Add a head"
    "The tentacles should be able to hit the boat, creating holes which need to be repaired"
    "shoot ink projectiles onto the ship"
    "If the kraken does get a head, if you fall in, perhaps it can suck you in the same way the tentacles do BUT if you get sucked in this part, you are killed, as you are eaten"
    "A large tentacle can move violently and splash a lot of water onto the ship"

    Whenever I meet him its usually "ah, its just the kraken", it would be great to have the kraken be more menacing. A head would also be good, though maybe as a phase 2 of the fight, where it peeks at the ship to damage it or use some mystical attack. Yes for tentacles damaging the ship. A tentacle shooting ink projectiles can work, shooting a ball of ink that upon hitting the ship surface, it would make a small inkplosion damaging and blocking vision like snake poison in an aoe to players. Kraken swallowing players would be great. The kraken splashing water is good too.

    This is a grade A post from a guy that never fought the kraken, good job.
    If I were to add something to the Kraken it would be two things: A reward and more tells that it is coming.

    Rewards:

    • cosmetics to everyone in the crew that defeated or helped defeat the kraken (like a commendation, the more kraken kills or assits, more cosmetics). Clothing or ship cosmetics would be great.
    • physical rewards, perhaps a bundle of different items from different companies surfaces from the darkness once the kraken is defeated.

    More Kraken tells:

    • The kraken currently does a cry every 3 am ingame, so perhaps more times of the day where the cry could be heard would indicate a kraken spawn
    • certain areas of the map could be regular locations for kraken attacks
    • or simply have the black goo visible at all times moving in the world.
  • AngryCoconut16

    @lil-fokker If Rare can program something to that effect, sure..
    alt text

    But I think that'd be too buggy and hard to program :P
    And yea, the black effect on the water IS GOOD, I just think:

    1. It shouldn't be immediate, only when the kraken sprays ink, perhaps after a certain number of tentacles have been damaged for instance?
    2. It should be very dark but you should be able to see the outline of the beast. And you should be scared! It's dark so there should be a 'OMG WHERE IS THE HEAD? I CAN'T SEE IT BUT I DON'T WANT TO GET EATEN!' feeling...

    And yea, in a way they should have held off adding the Kraken. It would be a different story if it was just a random squid, but they literally called it the Kraken, the legendary notorious monster.. and so it needs to represent that :)

    @HorizonLegendo Well that's the thing. Where is the body? And the body needs a mouth which can eat people who fall in.. perhaps they fall off the boat, perhaps they are lifted and throw into the water by the tentacles..

  • AngryCoconut16

    @urihamrayne Thanks :)

    The idea of a phased fight is an interesting one! Perhaps if you have fought off the kraken once before, the second time is more violent. I'm not sure how that would work with crews.. perhaps everyone needs to have survived stage 1?...

    Rewards - yes! I will add this in, I forgot. I'm not 100% sure how the system should work... perhaps the easiest way is 'survive X number of kraken encounters' and you unlock items in the shop 'unlocked on surviving kraken X number of times' (surviving as in fighting it off..)... I do like the idea of physical rewards though... something which you perhaps take to an NPC to prove you have killed it? A few chests surfacing from the dead body would be great, as if they were from previous defeated ships... and plus then it would provide players something to fight over for the pirate aspect of the game :)

    As for your tells, the one comment I'd like to make is black goo being visible all the time, I'd much rather Rare went in the direction of removing the goo unless the Kraken specifically wants to ink the water. In other words, if they were to add it roaming the world (which they totally should... it doesn't have to attack all the time but the ocean is fairly vast so it can swim around..) imagine seeing a giant kraken under the water, just as you can see sharks... god that would be terrifying and epic in equal measure

    Yea, perhaps it only spawns at different times, and you hear the roar which indicates it has just spawned on your server! I like these ideas :)

  • RoughLeech03117
    Master

    @angrycoconut16 we need it to have a body

  • Mc rossco
    Marauder
    Insider

    A reward for beating it, like after it's gone a tentacle floating in the water that you can grab and turn in for gold. At the moment there is no point in staying to fight it if you already have the achievement.

  • BOWGREENCAVEMAN

    I've put in a decent amount of time in the game and my only kraken experience was very disappointing mainly becuase when the water turned black I got disconnected :( It would be nice to see it more often or maybe lurking around skull forts. Would be cool if it had more of a chance to see it at places that had the word kraken in the name.

  • AngryCoconut16

    @bowgreencaveman yea definitely! It would be great if Rare could be a bit more transparent on that part of the game too - what does the Kraken require to spawn? Does it attack the first ship it comes to or does it have a target in mind when it appears?...

  • BOWGREENCAVEMAN

    @angrycoconut16 I’ve been told if u have more loot on you then you have more of chance to be attacked but I don’t really like that because if I want to go kraken hunting then there’s a lot to lose

  • Lil Fokker
    Master
    Insider

    @angrycoconut16
    Agreed.
    The Kraken is fun but already getting old. I've faced it probably 6 times and now it's just a hurdle in a trip....a speed bump....a minor detour.

    My first battle was amazing and I wasn't even the ship that it had.....we were being chased by a galleon and the galleon got got. We just helped the Kraken destroy the galleon.

    When I learned it had no body (or at least one that could be seen in the murk), the tension was mostly deflated.

    I'm sure they could continue to tweak the beast to eventually add the body, toy with how/when it uses ink, what other strats it engages your and others' ship with....etc.
    If they're adding new beasts like the megalodon....they should want to continue to improve the Kraken throughout the life of the game.

    It only makes sense for a game that is meant to change and grow over time.

  • AngryCoconut16

    @bowgreencaveman I have no idea haha. I've also heard that this is untrue as it attacks ships without loot. I've heard it goes for galleons more than sloops, but I've also heard it goes for solo sloops too, so I have no idea. One theory is that you need to have visited certain islands for it to then attack you, I think that's rubbish though :P

  • AngryCoconut16

    @lil-fokker Agreed. I've heard several people say that they probably ran out of time and just wanted to add what they have as they had promised the Kraken on release.. I agree with that.. lets see what the megalodon is like, the teaser picture on their face book makes it look really cool! This giant fish in the water, so they could easily make the same with a kraken creature! Even just adding a body and more tentacle movement alone would add so much to the experience.

  • lOOpct
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    I’ve been in plenty of kraken attacks, mostly survived, sank only a few times. They definitely loose their excitement.

    One thing to consider... I don’t think anyone has killed a kraken in the game, we merely defend ourselves until it decides to give up the attack. Even after a successful defense, there are no severed tentacles floating in the water, etc. Maybe that explains why there is no treasure or reward yet.

    I believe a big part of adding to the terror of the kraken is simply in the suspense... just like in a good movie: you hear a distant sound.. you hear it again but now it’s louder.. the boat suddenly bumps into something but there are no rocks nearby, “what was that?” Maybe you see a shape of something large swim by under the water... perhaps not every encounter is an attack even.. that also creates great stories: “we saw the kraken up close but it didn’t attack us! Thank god! Just a close call.

    A full Kraken attack should be something like 90% impossible to survive for it to really be taken fearfully. Imagine a player needing to make the ultimate sacrifice of getting swallowed but taking a gunpowder barrel to detonate it right in the krakens body!!!

    The black water needs to be limited to ink patches, as has been suggested, it is clearly only there to cover up the lack of a body.

    It will be interesting to see how the giant shark will work. Makes me wonder though if the kraken will ever get the attention it needs, or if they have just moved on.

  • AngryCoconut16

    @loopct said in Lets improve the Kraken!:

    I believe a big part of adding to the terror of the kraken is simply in the suspense... just like in a good movie: you hear a distant sound.. you hear it again but now it’s louder.. the boat suddenly bumps into something but there are no rocks nearby, “what was that?” Maybe you see a shape of something large swim by under the water... perhaps not every encounter is an attack even.. that also creates great stories: “we saw the kraken up close but it didn’t attack us! Thank god! Just a close call.

    Dude! That is such a cool idea! So there are 'close' encounters too where there is a giant bump and a roar, and nothing happens, but your ship stops moving, and you see this large creature swim right under the water by your ship... Wow that's a neat idea.

    A full Kraken attack should be something like 90% impossible to survive for it to really be taken fearfully. Imagine a player needing to make the ultimate sacrifice of getting swallowed but taking a gunpowder barrel to detonate it right in the krakens body!!!

    The trouble with this, I like the idea of getting cosmetics and if it was this hard to defeat/survive then it would be harder to get the cosmetics? Unless you are against cosmetics from it completely and just want it to be a really hard monster?

    It will be interesting to see how the giant shark will work. Makes me wonder though if the kraken will ever get the attention it needs, or if they have just moved on.

    I know. I am really really hoping the megalodon is as exciting as it looks... the teaser picture they released on their facebook page is really exciting, it looks bigger than a sloop! I really hope it's as good as it looks :D

  • lOOpct
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @angrycoconut16

    Thanks, Maybe kraken related cosmetics/items could be unlocked by performing certain heroic actions during an attack? That way it’s not all or nothing based on one encounter anyways.. it would give you “something to shoot for” each time! Haha! And perhaps the reward for surviving an attack is selling a barrel of kraken-ink to the merchant for some ridiculous price? Haha, at least it would make sense... vs a treasure chest popping up in the water

  • AngryCoconut16

    @loopct So here is a random example... your crew mate gets sucked by the kraken and is being held in the air, perhaps it's a bit more difficult to release them (at the moment it takes like 1 hit?), so it takes 3 hits or something, from your crew, not yourself. If you successfully deal 3 hits you unlock 'free crewmate' heroic act, and you have to do this X amount of times to unlock cosmetic items? That's an interesting idea...

    I gotta admit though I don't like the idea of the kraken being nearly unbeatable, I think it should be very feasible that crews can survive/fend off the kraken, I just think it's too easy at the moment... and not exciting enough...

    I've added your 'close encounter' suggestion to the main thread by the way :)

  • Grievous32
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    In my opinion :

    • The music should be a little louder and the epic part when you kill a tentacle should inspire a little more the rest of the soundtrack to make it more epic during the fight (with the choir and this evil feeling)
    • The Kraken should grab our ship with sometimes 2 tentacles and instead of only smash the ship, he could try to sink it without making holes (with a timer of 1 min when there is only one tentacle, and 30 seconds when there are 2)
    • The tentacle grabbing the ship should be stronger and not stop grabbing the ship as quick as currently
    • Some tentacles should try to catch players without aspire them, but directly with an animation to catch them
    • Some tentacles should hit the ship violently to make the ship turn (like when you drop the anchor while moving and when the wheel is turned to the right or left), to disorient the players and give a better feeling that the Kraken totally play with your ship like a toy
  • lOOpct
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    Yes I like the idea of it being able to spin the ship, maybe even lift it above the water or at least tilt it more in the water. Adding that kind of movement would really add to the chaos

  • lOOpct
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @angrycoconut16

    Nice example...That’s exactly what I’m talking about!

    Maybe the 90% I suggested is too high, something like 75% is more appropriate. I’m sure some would complain if it’s too hard, and if the success rate is too low, than people might just give up if it attacks and scuttle! I’m just trying to think of how to make it a more fearful experience overall.

  • AngryCoconut16

    @grievous32 said in Lets improve the Kraken!:

    I especially like these ideas:

    • The tentacle grabbing the ship should be stronger and not stop grabbing the ship as quick as currently

    This is a fair point for sure. It looks quite easy to remove the tentacle which has wrapped around your ship? It should almost be a 'mini-fight' without the kraken fight itself..

    • Some tentacles should try to catch players without aspire them, but directly with an animation to catch them

    See, i wonder if Rare didn't do this as it could be hard and buggy to program? I don't know.. i agree if they can do it, it would be great to see a tentacle wrap around too players too..

    • Some tentacles should hit the ship violently to make the ship turn (like when you drop the anchor while moving and when the wheel is turned to the right or left), to disorient the players and give a better feeling that the Kraken totally play with your ship like a toy

    Yes! Love this! Definitely. They have made a tentacle shake the ship, why not violently turn it?

    Nice ideas! :)

  • Tedakin
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    Most important thing is to actually make it a challenge. It literally does NOTHING. It just causes you to have to slow down for 3 minutes and waste your cannonballs. It's pathetic really. It's neat when it wraps the ship but that never happens.

    They need to have it immediately wrap the ship and do it several times, breaking the ship up, making there be an actual threat you'll sink. That to me seems like an easy upgrade to fix the Kraken some.

    Right now when the water turns black my friends and I are just like oh..... Kraken... let me walk over and get some cannonballs. Okay... we're past it.... It's should be scary when it comes, not something you roll your eyes over.

    And also, yes, when the water goes black, have the ship get turned and moved around as if the kraken is ramming it. That would at least be cool and create some sense of dread... I'd love to be on the ship as it's being turned, which would also at least create the illusion that there's more below the water than just blackness.

  • AngryCoconut16

    @tedakin said in Lets improve the Kraken!:

    Right now when the water turns black my friends and I are just like oh..... Kraken... let me walk over and get some cannonballs. Okay... we're past it.... It's should be scary when it comes, not something you roll your eyes over.

    This is a really interesting too... I think I'll add this in the OP. You can literally get out of range of the kraken right? If you get out of the black it's no longer a threat? If this is the case this is so silly, it should chase you down, the only escape should be you damaging it enough, or it sinking you.. no 'getting out of range'.. I suppose the only out of range would be shallow areas where the kraken can't reach.. the equivalent of sharks not being able to chase you on the very shallow shorelines. But other then that, it will hunt you down until one of you are defeated...

    And also, yes, when the water goes black, have the ship get turned and moved around as if the kraken is ramming it. That would at least be cool and create some sense of dread... I'd love to be on the ship as it's being turned, which would also at least create the illusion that there's more below the water than just blackness.

    Yea, perhaps you hear a loud crack, or bang, the ship moves violently, and you see the giant creature rush under your ship... also an idea to consider.

  • UrihamRayne
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @angrycoconut16 "You can literally get out of range of the kraken right? If you get out of the black it's no longer a threat?"

    You didn't know that? Well let me explain it further.

    The Kraken is immobile whenever he ambushes a target, the black goo slows the ship down (it used to slow the ship pre-1.0.2 to an almost halt, now its not that slow) and you can manouver in it so long your sship isn't wrapped by a tentacle, once you are out of the black the kraken is incapable of doing anything to anyone around it, you can shoot at it for 10 minutes until it leaves, and it wont move to retort.

  • Doubledragun
    Insider

    next you will be crying "nerf the kraken #krakentoostrong"!

  • AngryCoconut16

    @urihamrayne No, as explained in my OP I've seen videos of it, and see one encounter. I know the encounter used to stop your ship to an almost complete stop but I was unsure at what stage a ship could escape.

    That is completely wrong though, why should the kraken not follow you? That's bizarre!

  • AngryCoconut16

    @doubledragun What even?

  • PikAvenger
    Rogue

    @urihamrayne said in Lets improve the Kraken!:

    ...the black goo slows the ship down (it used to slow the ship pre-1.0.2 to an almost halt, now its not that slow) and you can manouver in it so long your sship isn't wrapped by a tentacle...

    My crew encountered the Kraken last night and the black goo completely stopped our galleon moving at full speed. We couldn't move at all.

  • iDuskk
    Marauder
    Insider

    I just want the kracken to do SOMETHING.

    It just sits there wiggling it's tentacles as you blast away, occasionally grabbing your ship or sucking someone off..........the ship. Why doesn't it fight Back? Strike the ship with the tentacles, rock the boat back and forth, hell why not lift the boat entirely out of the sea and when you deal some damage it drops you and you get to make a big splash in a galleon.

    Just do something!

  • CaptMacGaren
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    Sim, já fiz um post sobre o Kraken, concordo contigo, fico na torcida para que usem algumas dessas ideias.

  • Medynaunt
    Marauder

    Make it more difficult to fight. got caught in it as solo sloop and defeated it easy

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