So, let me understand this. You're the attacker, you see in the distance a target. You decide when to attack, from which direction and with what weapons and strategies. You fail your attack and then you want the game to give you an advantage to try again? Why not plan ahead catch them off guard while coming full wind? With a barrel preferably. You're the one setting the initial engagement terms since you attack.
Ideas on how to fix the Chase Problem
@skritsarn the map is a square with boundries and if you sail right you can force them in the direction you want and at some point there gonna have to bypass you due to running out of map which is a chance to sink them but doing so requires a lot of tactical thinking and manoeuvring and time. so its down to the will power of the chaser more than the chased but I don't see a problem with the chasing as it stands and you don't have to be able to damage and board a ship to sink it
a sloop has a max of 110 planks and holds 200 cannon balls galleon 120 and 300 so as long as you put 121 holes in the ship there sinking in without ever boarding the ship and most randoms ive joined barley stock there barrels so majority of ships carry maybe 40-50 planksI'm not a fan of the idea. Players are required to play in a PvP world. That doesn't mean that PvP combat should be required to play the game. PvP isn't just shooting and killing, there is the sailing aspect of it too. If I am being chased then I probably don't want to fight you. As it is now, if you catch me and sink me then you beat me and won the encounter playing your way. However if I elude you until you give up then I beat you and won the encounter playing my way. Your idea would always give your way to play the advantage over my way. I'm not interested in fighting, but I do like the chase.
@rockdoctor11b I really get your point, well said. But i still think that if you want to play that way and avoid people, you have to be skilled at avoiding people. Not just given a free pass to avoid anyone by sailing into the wind.
@skritsarn maybe it is but its also realistic this stuff should not be made easy for the aggressors they want the kill the pacifist carebear who seemingly has no intention of fighting then they should have to work for it
@skritsarn said in Ideas on how to fix the Chase Problem:
@edemardil I would argue that you do in fact need PvP for faction rep. The PvE ties into the PvP because anything you loot out in the world isn't yours until you brought it to an outpost and turned it in, and to do that you need to avoid and/or beat other crews that try to steal it from you. If you were rewarded by killing players, voyages would be kinda redundant and it would be a whole other game.
No, that's not how that works. You could just go around killing people who have nothing on their ships all night and not make a single point of XP or Gold without actually bringing something on board and selling it. I go most nights without ever interacting with another player. If it were developed as a PvP game, that would be impossible. I am content with doing Merchant missions and not fighting. I do it every night. I guess I should be poor and low rep, according to your opinion on what the game is. But I am neither.
@skritsarn there not taking a free pass you are being out manoeuvred if at no point you are getting into a brawl with them the map has boundaries so there is limited space they have to hit a boundary at some point unless the chaser is not pushing them into a boundary and then that's on them for being out manoeuvred
@greaseman85 said in Ideas on how to fix the Chase Problem:
@edemardil said in Ideas on how to fix the Chase Problem:
@skritsarn said in Ideas on how to fix the Chase Problem:
@greaseman85 If it was intended to be a PvE game, why in the world would they have designed it so heavily towards PvP?
Not that I'm against the PvP part of it, I don't mind the challenge of it, but if it was designed so heavily towards PvP, why don't you need PvP for any faction rep, to become legendary, get points or XP for PvP or Gold for killing other players?
Asking for a friend.
Also, there is no stat tracking of any kind, no unlocking better equipment, etc. All staples of PvP games. Sure PvP is part of the game, but it is no hardcore PvP game.
You do get two achievements, I think. But yeah. There's no "PvP pro sail" or "PvP vendor" or anything like that you would find in a PvP game. I think this game even operates better without PvP. Right now you can get rep and gold. If you fight other people all the time, you'll really get neither and if you do, it's so slow that it's not worth it. But if you team up with people, you end up getting more rep and more gold. I've been doing a lot of sloop fleets and I'm like scrooge McDuck right now in that game. Swimming in gold. No one mucks with 2 sloops in a fleet. You don't have to worry about getting off on an Island to look for stuff because people stay away from two sloops. It's fun.
@skritsarn said in Ideas on how to fix the Chase Problem:
@edemardil I don't really get what you're saying, sorry xD
You say it's a game developed for PvP but there are literally no rewards to PvP in this game. Do you understand?
@edemardil Well that is what my comment was about. You get rewarded for beating and avoiding other crews and keeping/taking loot, hence you're rewarded from the PvP aspect of the game.
@skritsarn said in Ideas on how to fix the Chase Problem:
@acid182 Id rather work for it by out matching the opponent in skill than having a patience test :D
tactical sailing is not a skill less thing its harder to run away from aggressive persistent chaser unscathed than it is to sword boost 100 meters across the water onto their ladder to then drop there anchor hit there lower deck while you friend puts a few holes in to sink them while you stop them from repairing that really does not take massive amounts of skill especially when its someone who is running for a reason like there terrible at pvp
@skritsarn said in Ideas on how to fix the Chase Problem:
@edemardil Well that is what my comment was about. You get rewarded for beating and avoiding other crews and keeping/taking loot, hence you're rewarded from the PvP aspect of the game.
But I got the loot from an Island and from avoiding PvP. So therefore, PvP is the punishment, PvE is the reward.
@skritsarn The alternative being that I should always lose a chase with both ships sailing into the wind? How is escaping by sailing into the wind any different than escaping with the wind in your sails? If anyone goes in a straight line they can run indefinitely so long as they pay attention to the wind if they are in the same ship. If you are close behind you can always try to snipe me and keep me off the wheel/sails.
Chase Cannons would be the thing that can help.
BEFORE YOU YELL UNFAIR BE PRACTICAL!
Chase cannons can only hit a ship fleeing in 2 spots that cause a leak. 2.... two... TWO..It will keep a few of there crew busy. making t hem less able to endlessly toss crew members overboard hurdurr.
This will even out the chase.
As it is... Fleeing ship only has to get their sails set once, and 3 people hop over board in succession, and try and board the enemy ship.. Over and over and over and over.
Chasing ship must maintain sail perfectly and watch for boarders and time turns and try and catch up. cuz, just catching them, isnt gonna work. If they keep sails perfect, then the ladders arent watched.
Coming right up on them only gives them a better chance of jumping on your ship but of you pick a side and try and stay on it, they can e brake the opposite direction, and you must too.
Cannons will only balance out the tasks between the two ships. The fleer must atleast deal with a little water and a hole or two.
Please remember... Two holes... noty a tactical nuke that will drop from above and go straight throgh the ship to the bottom before detonation... cuz thats what you will act like im saying.
Why do these things need balancing?
-crews run all the time with .. nothing
-crews who cahse will chase because they ran, must have something.
-your time and effort should be worth fighting for. if it is not then just scuttle, or run off the edge of the map. But dont cry when you are chased this long. Fight for what is yours, win some lose some. Dont make it out to be the pirates fault in the pirate game you waisted our time and yours.@skritsarn Did you know that some african tribes developed a method to hunt prey much faster than themselves? They simply kept chasing them, and due to human advantages (ability to carry water and food for instance), eventually the prey would collapse or give up. Same principle. You claim the target is 100% safe, but we know they're not. You won't gain an inch on them, but you won't lose an inch either. They can't really run for an outpost either, unless they can sell a full hoard in 30 seconds tops. You can literally keep chasing them forever. Granted, you gotta keep them off your boat, but that's pretty easy in my experience (if you can't hit a guy in the face with a blunderbuss from 1 foot away as he's crawling up the ladder, you shouldn't PvP at all tbh).
Your issue here seems to be, that you wanted a game in which PvP is not only a part of it, but rather the point. That a fight shouldn't be optional, but mandatory. And that's an aspect I simply disagree with. As a solo-player, I rely on my ability to run; if I don't have that, the game is just not fun for me, and then I get to make a post about how the game needs improvement. But I don't get safety either, I have to keep working on my escape, and hope you'll eventually drop the pursuit.
Now, about a frontal cannon. I could possibly agree to this. I don't really need one, but I guess it could be implemented to break the tedious chases. The problem is, this would have to come as a package where a backwards facing cannon is included. Why would you give the advantage to the attacker, and not also the defender? You want the loot so desperately? Then you'll have to attack the ship, but ALSO defend your own. And frankly, I think there's plenty more weak spots on the front of a ship, than the back. So this would probably not benefit the attacker as much.
Anywho, that's my 2 cents on the matter.
@rubendorff
I want to agree with your front cannon idea. except one thing.While I think the front cannons shoud cost two cannons per side... that would then say, you get to choose one. front or back but not both.
Then its up to you to choose. do you run alot, or do you fight for whats yours. I think your time and effort is worth fighting for.
I think front cannons should be on the second deck, Where the ports they face out of are permanent. thus, they are holes that take water.
I think Front cannons that are through ports have a very very small firing arc, both left and right and up and down. Meaning they are only useful in certain situations. Like a chase, but also, they wont help if the boat is too far ahead.Rear cannons should have the exact same apply.
So, as an example, someone not looking to pvp at that moment, and due to their awareness, they see your ship, and consciously choose to go the other way. You think their high awareness should be penalized because you can't catch up?
I'd suggest getting better at hunting down ships, and realizing when and when not to give chase.
@rubendorff @rubendorff well that's cool and interesting :p but it doesnt rly make for a good gaming experience. Whenever i get into a chase like that, i give up and do something more efficient instead of wasting my time. If it was only me, there would be no problem, but most ppl do this (from my experience when using this tactic to flee)
And i love the game, i dont wish to change it in any way, just to improve it. Chasing isnt fun at all so if rare ever intended that chasing and catching someone was to be a part of the game(which i really think they did) then they need to do something about it imo.
If u could fire cannons forward it would change the game totally. That would really force people to stop running and fight instead. The harpoon idea i had would just force ppl to be smarter about how they run away and not just steer to follow the wind by looking at lines in the air. But as i said this might not be the best of ideas. I just think fleeing is too easy and doesn't take any skill. A really skilled crew should be able to chase someone down, but as of now the only way that can happen(if you dont love 20min chases) is if the fleeing ship isnt aware of the basic mechanics of the wind.
@coldpopeye @coldpopeye no it shouldnt be too forgiving if you fail an attack. But imagine this scenario instead.. I attack someone and they overpower me, so when i start noticing it's going south, i just quickly find head wind and keep going, and it's really unlikely that they will chase me for very long. Isn't that too forgiving as well for a failed attack? Because that's how it is right now. If i get out skilled in an attack, i shouldn't be able to just run and not having to worry about being out skilled in a chase as well.
@d4u2s0t Nop that's not what im saying. If you manage to keep distance because of good awareness, then you deserve to be kept alone. On the other hand if you make mistakes and allow someone to get close enough to even shoot at you, you shouldn't be forgiven so easily for it. You should have to sweat at least a little bit to get out of there, currently it's too easy i think :)
@d4u2s0t thats not the issue. The fleeing ship is all hur durr in it while the cahser is 100% on top of every little thing.
To prove this point. I made a sandwhich whilst playing and my buddy took a shower while we were being chased.... and we were still out in front.
While im chasing people, Im 100% paying attention, we are adjusting sails perfectly, and the other ship can.. go make a sandwhich... shower... or throw those players over board.
Its to balance out this
@jdge439 haha love it.. This is exactly how i feel about it and it really does prove a point. Like someone said above, people watch movies while being chased when they have nothing on board, just to troll. Still he argued that there are no improvements needed though xD
@skritsarn so far most people that directly attacked me in SoT had either come out of an outpost or had only trinkets on the boat. So if they start running I tend not to chase them for long just enough to make them run faster then go about my business.
@subaqueousreach No it doesn't, most just run and run while jumping one coward off at a time at each outpost to drop off loot and respawn. That's not skill.
@skritsarn said in Ideas on how to fix the Chase Problem:
@cpt-toothpick It's not about being solo and having a hard time, it's about chases being slow and boring no matter if you're 2 man or 4man. If a fleeing ship is sailing into the wind it's all the same.
They can't sail in to the wind forever tho.
Just like a lion hunts a gazell, short bursts and if the gazell gets away, try and try again. If I notice someone is so eager to sail strait in to the wind when we chase I say well they know where we are if they want to get sunk, and ill turn around continue on to the next unexpected victim off the seas, or go toward my original destination and see if I can find another target on the way to sink and take their booty.Having someone jump off with treasure is a strategy developed to avoid persistent chases. They're using all the tools available to them to avoid you. That's playing smart.
What would you have them do, turn around and fight you and risk losing all their treasure? Why would anyone do that? It's not like your ship is chalk full of treasure for them to take if they win the fight. You have nothing to lose, which is why you're chasing them for their loot in the first place.
@subaqueousreach Thanks for putting words into my post for me, I didn't say it wasn't a legit tactic or that it wasn't smart, I'm saying it's cowardly. It's a game about high risk vs. high reward, crews that run and have no valid way of being caught unless they screw up is absurd.
I crushed a fort solo sloop and trolled TWO different galleons for the better part of three hours, they eventually left and I didn't drop a single piece of treasure. I watched YouTube videos the whole time, occasionally checking to make sure I wasn't sailing with the wind so they could catch me.
A 4 man crew on point with focus should be able to run down a 2 man crew that's going 'hurr durr we'z runnin away!' If I can watch movies while running and not focusing, I don't deserve that treasure. Stop defending noob-ish and troll tactics. It's "Sea of Thieves" a pirate game, not "Sea of Cowards" a chicken s**t simulator.
I'd bet money that if anyone legitimately preaches to run, they probably also want safe-mode offline play too!
You say to stop defending troll tactics, but you openly admit to trolling other players. Does irony not hold any meaning for you?
It's not troll tactics, it's playing smart. If you don't like it then tough. My usual 3 man has caught up to plenty of duo sloops and even other 4 man galleons. You just gotta know what you're doing and coordinate with your team.
The ship to ship balance is fine the way it is currently. I see no need for a hand hold mechanic for people chasing since I, and many others, can chase people just fine and tend to catch them.
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