[Mega Thread] - Death Cost

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    @dragonskissxxx said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    @deadactionjones ahh i hear you. tbh they should introduce a player bounty system. similar to how they had in the crime and punishments 2.0 in elite dangerous where the player who initiated the Fight will receive the bounty or such? then offer Bounty hunts for Players in your current session who have a large bounty.

    No. It can't accurately determine who commenced hostilities. Some of the aweful behaviour that currently occurs is the result other players making disgusting remarks or being generally antisocial to other players who then destroy them to get their point across and then get penalised... Rewarding the true greifer or true causer of hostilities

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    Our money is safe, we banked it out an outpost and now you want to take it away from us? What is the point in that????

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    Here goes my random funny moments and dying in funny ways...
    I won't waste my money, My incentive in the Funny ways to try things out and die is now Pure fun, it doesn't cost me anything and I'm not gaining anything... if I start losing money for it, There goes the incentive of Fun.
    Great idea rare, Who came up with this idea? And why even considering it?
    You made a whole point about 'We don't want deaths to be punishing'
    Guess your word is out the door.

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    Let's be careful not to turn this thread into a back and forth argument between players. If you want to argue points with one another maybe take it to a private messages? There have been a ton of awesome suggestions posted here and it would be a shame for this thread to get locked down because of a dispute between two players.

    That being said, there is a ton of unknown info that is partially fuelling this debate:

    We don't know what the devs intend to "fix" with this change.
    We don't know how much the death cost will be.
    We don't know what specific forms of death will cause a death tax.
    We DO know that the tax will supposedly not be cause by PvP, but we don't know if certain causes of death, which might be ambiguous by nature, will still cause a death tax.

    Example, which of the following are considered by the system to be PvP deaths:
    If I drop a gunpowder barrel and a sloop runs over it and it kill another player?
    If I shoot a player down to a sliver of health and a shark kills them?
    If I hit a player with a cannonball that is near a cliff, knock them off and they are killed by the fall?
    If I'm fighting underwater and a tick of drowning damage finishes them off?
    If I leave a caged snake by the chests on my ship and the snake kills another player?

    How does the system determine which is PvE? Why should I trust it? Why would we really want this?

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    Death cost for individual players seems like a bad idea to me. A cost for losing your ship sounds like a great idea.

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    If this is actually going to be a thing the. You need to add a strictly SOLO server to the game. For us players who sail alone, we are constantly getting sunk and killed by groups of players. I don’t see how it’s fair, or enjoyable to any aspect to constantly be killed because you can’t operate the whole ship (steer and shoot) like the groups you’re facing. Some of us don’t have anyone to play this with. Nor do we want to play with a random. Just add a solo portion (whole world of only solo players)

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    I think there should be a very hefty fee for losing your ship that the entire crew should have to split.

    I also think there should be a fee for using the mermaid as well as dying.

    IMO the mermaid respawning is heavily exploitable and needs a system to put it in check. There’s currently no reason to stop a ship at an outpost other than to grab crates for merchant quests. There is also no penalty for shooting yourself out of a cannon and missing your target. Don’t worry you’ll be back on the boat ina few seconds at no cost.

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    Sorry but any fee for dying or losing your ship is a bad idea period.

    It great fun to have a 3 hour fight around a fort, to get some big loot in the end or not.

    The only two things I would suggest is to make ships respawn farther away from the location it sunk. And if they want to do something with Davy Jones Locker aka The Ship Of the Death, then let the captain give us a riddle with a multiple choice answer to have a normal respawn time or a longer one if you answer wrongly. That can be done for like losing your ship.

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    I went through some of the other topics and yes, I can tell you the answer most definitely is there should be a punishment for losing your SHIP, not for individual deaths. This will solve so much issues; people picking needless fights, abusing the respawn mechanic, crashing your boat into outposts to sell your loot, etc. It will also be an incentive for people to explore more islands, as they'll be running out of supplies and restock.

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    Maybe this has been said before (I haven't read all 500+ posts in the thread) but since so many people are against gold penalty for avoidable deaths, why not just resource loss? Make death remove some or all of the resources in your inventory, so that it has a bit more immediate game impact as punishment instead of permanent cash loss.

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    @seenplastictruk I think I was pretty clear in my post that I, too, am totally against the idea of a death cost. My suggestion as to a “time or money” system was simply an “ if it has to happen” scenario.

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    There is no reason, or point to punishing the player. Half the fun of this game is just screwing around. A death penalty would entirely change the way I play this game for the worse.
    Dont
    just dont ...

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    This doesn't fix PVP issues and instead punishes PVE solo players and small crews or those just looking for ways have some creative fun's between the repeatetive grind.

    It is hard enough as a small crew to take on some of the skeleton missions. It's a long grind of waves and you die often only to earn a couple skulls. So after 30+ minutes of that you are telling me my prize is negated by all my death taxes?

    There is no deep progression or money sink in the game so those who have earned enough to buy the set of gear and ship cosmetics they want no longer have a need for gold. Gold has no value. That is a problem and it is balanced against smaller crews and less frequent players trying to have fun.

    Everything about this tax goes against the core idea of the game - a playful sandbox where new and old players are on even footing.

    I agree with so many that the problem is ship spawning. If your ship is sunk you should have to respawn at the far away island with no supplies left on board. If you want to TAX something, allow players to pay a massive fee to respawn at a near-by Outpost with a stocked ship. It would have to be a high tax to act as a gold sink for crews that are just sitting on piles of gold with nothing to do.

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    Please no! Part of the fun of this game is ridiculous, hilarious deaths. Death Cost ruins that completely.

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    @godskeep pirates were bullies and misbehaviors that's piracy on the open sea's you see a ship you raid it. I'll give you props on one point to the game being spawn camped this portion of the game does need to be changed. But with no way to see who your attacking until your right on top of a person besides maybe ship customization but in time even that wont distinguish who's is who. Not to mention we all don't just attack for treasure some of use raid ships for resources. Planks bananas cannonballs because we don't want to make port. If your only a solo player then you will most likely not enjoy this game there are to many variables a solo player has to deal with. Hence why its listed as hardmode by most players now. We act as both pirates and merchant ships your going to be attacked regardless. Either learn to escape or find some friends. Even a two man sloop can sink a four man crew I've done it a few times its all about how you play and the tactics you employ. But a solo player unless there extremely skilled and know that there doing it's just easy pickings.
    The best indicator that I've mentioned in another post was a flag system white meaning safe player the normal meaning iffy at best and a a red flag(which was a real thing in those times it meant no quarter would be given) for those who aggressively attack other players. You see one of those flags then you know what you are going to be dealing with ahead of time.

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    @broker151 I agree to a certain extent on the upgraded items. I like the neutral grounds on weapons, but I do believe that my sweet gold shovel should be able to cut through sand more efficiently. This I now only have to shovel three times or perhaps two. My spy glass can now see farther or my tankard can hold more ale. My instrument is a little louder. Lantern is brighter. Just little things that make the grind a little more rewarding. Don't make my pistol shoot farther though. Don't make my blunderbuss have a tighter spread. Don't even let my bucket hold more water (due to an advantage granted during ship battle). Just small things that will allow me to truly feel upgraded aside from just looking the part.

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    As far as a gold death cost goes, that sounds pretty lame.

    If it's only pve, the only time you ever really die it's for stupid reasons.

    I hope you never try to implement a death cost in pvp beecaaause: you need to fix the spawn camping.

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    Maybe have the cost penalty for an almost instant respawn, OR like someone said trim the sails swab the deck clean the bright work or something for a free spawn but at a time penalty.

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    @khaleesibot penalty for dying when suicide is usually your only option when you get stuck on your broken map... And still no suicide option in the menu... Well done.

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    Nay to paying the boatman.

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    @khaleesibot My issue with this death cost, for PvE deaths, is you are punishing goofing off. Let me explain.

    • RP on the ship and 'punish' someone by firing them out of a cannon to be a 'castaway' on an island you are passing for vomiting on the captain and they get killed by skeletons/shark on the way back, punished.

    • Goofing off and firing out of cannons period and taking damage, punished.

    • The game is made of cartoony characters with ridiculous actions that can be taken. Dying by goofing off is fun and funny. Why punish for this?

    -Make skull forts less appealing, why attack the skull fort when I can just let someone else get all the punishments and then attack them PvP when they leave and get no punishment no matter how many times I die? Skull forts are fun, already risky enough that you will be able to sell the goods, why more punishment?

    • Order of Souls quests, several times I've had 6 tough skeletons spawn in with all pistols or blunderbuss and myself and my crew get killed a few times...just to get the lowest tier skull. It already costs money to buy the mission, and now I've got a skull that gives me barely any profit, and I lost coin from dying to aimbot skeletons, and I lost money. That isn't fun.

    And yes, it will feel like punishment. I don't see what this solves/fixes/improves at all. The only thing I can see is that it would be an arbitrary way to 'slow down progression' and progression to buy skins is neat, don't get me wrong, but it isn't the 'fun' parts of this game or what keeps me playing it at all. If there is some other thing this is solving/fixing/improving I can't for the life of me see it and would love to hear what it is.

    Also, is it a percentage? A fixed amount based on how you die? If the amounts are to small, what is the point, it's meaningless and just annoying. If it is to large, then, you are pushing people to go straight PvP. Which means a decreased number of people doing PvE, which means a lot of useless 'pirating' for 0 loot. I just don't understand it and I guess I need a more in depth explanation behind the design choice of this.

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    @khaleesibot why did this happen? there are clearly more comments against this happening and they have lots of up votes? what made rare decide to do this?

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    @eljammos one of the things I fell in love with in this game was the ease of having a ship. I spent a lot of time playing gta5 recently and it is friggen annoying paying to get your vehicles back because you were goofing around.

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    @benson09 I'm surprise this isn't already an option!! Although it is thrilling to escape (or sink) a galleon while playing a sloop, it would make sense to pit same sized crews against each other.

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    Let look at this from a different perspective shall we? This death tax that’s been proposed with good intentions, is not popular. At all.

    I would like to propose an alternative solution. A debt to pay if you will. Your ship should be the most important thing to the crew and like wise the crew should keep it safe at all costs. But! What if your ship is lost? I propose a debt to be payed for the ferrie man to raise up your crews ship. The debt I propose would be corolated the highest level trading company you have. This way it would be fair to all players new and old.

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    Let look at this from a different perspective shall we? This death tax that’s been proposed with good intentions, is not popular. At all.

    I would like to propose an alternative solution. A debt to pay if you will. Your ship should be the most important thing to the crew and like wise the crew should keep it safe at all costs. But! What if your ship is lost? I propose a debt to be payed for the ferrie man to raise up your crews ship. The debt I propose would be corolated the highest level trading company you have. This way it would be fair to all players new and old.

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    Personally, I think the insane wait time to spawn is punishment enough. You die and have to spend some time on a death ferry? Sure, cool, I like it. The door opens, you go through, and you're still spending another 30 seconds respawning? uhhhh great now my attackers have successfully sunk my ship because it took me a whole minute or two to respawn and couldn't get back to stop that random crew of 4 who just rammed my ship, boarded, and easily killed me.

    If you wanna take gold from me when I die, reduce the insane black screen load time after leaving the death ferry first.

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    @khaleesibot this is a terrible idea. Everything in game is way overpriced as is. Now you want to tax me for dying? Like i die several times on each skeleton fort and ocasionally on order of souls quests. So any gold i get from these will just be cancelled out by charging me for an unavoidable series if deaths. Not to mention my friends and i joke around and do dumb stuff that ends in us dying for a laugh. Im gonna get charged for that too? Like grinding for gold is hard enough without taking it from me after i already had to do all the hard work of safely delivering it to the trader for very little reward in my opinion. Dont get me wrong i love this game but adding a death tax will seriously bother me at this point. Unless they up the reward for quests or lower the price on cosmetics this will be a terrible addition to this game.

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    My feedback on this is that it'd be best if the death cost was that you lost everything you had in your pockets, and don't respawn with full ammo unless you die on your ship.
    The only annoying thing that happened to me once and that I started doing is that crews low on supplies would board my ship, fill their pockets at the barrels, then die, spawn on their ship and shoot my ship with my cannonballs.
    That's cheeky but also not really balanced.

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    I do think there needs to be a penalty for death “if” you wanna respawn near whoever took you out and get revenge. That way, if you want payback, you gotta pay for it. And if you keep losing, you gotta pay more if the ship sank. It’s the best way to prevent players from respawning over and over to attack you. But just respawning at an outpost should be free. And death by skeleton should be a small price. Like 5 gold.

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    @stevied3 totally agree. Small incremental changes as the same item "levels up". Keep the weapons the same on stats, to maintain damage standards and level playing field, but maybe incorporate new items too that are cosmetic with a bonus. Like a bandoleer allows you to hold 5 more shots, or a plunder bag that you can put any items into and hold more to make restocking easier. I always take a banana crate with me and leave on shore so I don't have to swim back and forth to get 50 bananas on my ship. This would be nice.

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    No. This shouldn't be implemented. Period.

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    This is a terrible idea and could potentially be a game killer.

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    @khaleesibot as if people need more of a reason to stand around and do nothing

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    @personalc0ffee they won’t it will just punish everyone who isn’t griefing.

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