[Mega Thread] - Death Cost

  • khaleesibot
    Master
    Founder

    An update has been announced in the Release Notes, Death Cost.

    Death Cost - This new feature has the Captain of the Ferry of the Damned deduct a small gold fee when you die. Rates are dependant on the cause of death, so the more avoidable the death, the less patience the Captain will have when we enable this feature!

    Please note, we never intended to charge players for PvP related deaths, as we understand the negative impact this would have on player experience.

    We understand that this addition to the release notes was a little confusing, and in the future we will ensure that any future updates we discuss give you a better understanding of how and why we're implementing it. Sea of Thieves is constantly evolving, and any feature we will test, monitor data and listen to your feedback to ensure we're making the right decisions.

    As this is a hot topic which the community are very interested, we've decided to gather all your discussions, thoughts and concerns in one Mega Thread.

    As a result this thread is locked, thank you all for your feedback!

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  • KnifeLife
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @khaleesibot I believe work needs to be done on the ship spawn camping before this gets implemented or i can see it getting abused and alot of people getting frustrated.

    I'm also in a split mind, before the game launched i was up for this. But now its out im not so sure, people die alot and especially when you are doing order of souls quests and 5 skellies with blunderbusses spawn ect.

    Normally im up for being careful and having a punishment for death, bt i just dont think this is the game for it. I like doing crazy jump or insane plans and wouldn't not want to do them for fear of having my gold slowly trickling away.

    But the defining factor for me will have to be when we get actual prices ect.. Or have a sink tax instead, that means you can go nuts with your life but need to protect your ship, best of both worlds.

  • Maamar
    Master
    Founder

    I don't think we need more incentive for cowardice and griefing.

    Better if you just made ships respawn a lot farther than just "the nearest island" and replace its crews treasure maps.

  • Business Beagle

    Strongly disagree.

    This will absolutely destroy the game for newer players. As well as increase toxicity.

    I see people intentionally killing people in ways that cost the most money for the sole purpose of making them lose more.

    I think a better idea would be an increased respawn time if the death was more avoidable.

    This would punish people for being careless but not take their gold away which is ridiculous.

  • Nocture2568
    Master
    Insider

    To be honest, this death charge will only help griefers. They will just hunt who don't want to PvP to just mess with him and making him loose his money.

    And also, will make ppl who have high ping get hella disapointed, because isnt nice to die to to different ping ranges (i had trouble with this 3 times yesterday, landed a close-call shotgun on some guys, they never died, while they 1 shot me with a pistol, they were all from NA and i am from SA, so they have low ping while i have high ping)

  • DeadTree Alive
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    Perhaps for death to skeletons, sharks, or snakes, but deaths by falling, players, or cannons should not be punished.

  • IISrgntWolfII
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    Death Cost is a bad idea.
    Personally i have fun randomly blowing up my teammates with gunpowder barrels.
    Death cost removes the 'sandbox' 'make the world what you want' type of feel.
    new players are going to see the biggest impact.
    Please don't do this.

  • NoxSamus

    Why is it that dev's cater grievers and trolls more then normal players, don't they know by now they can't make players play their game the way they want! if there is but the smallest exploit possible, players will abuse the p**p out of it.

    @knifelife said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    @khaleesibot I believe work needs to be done on the ship spawn camping before this gets implemented or i can see it getting abused and alot of people getting frustrated.

    yes, it will be abused 100% sure of that!

  • Hudson RL
    Lord
    Insider
    Founder

    Terrible idea. A tax on sunken ships is far more beneficial. Makes us more attached to our ship. Discourages scuttling to restock on supplies and people fleeing from combat

  • DerkGoesBezerko
    Founder

    Death by other players shouldn't charge you. IMO, dying by something in the environment should be the only thing that charges you.

    Wait...what happens if you don't have the funds? Are you pretty much stuck on the Ferry to sweep the dust from past souls for life?

  • CanisXIIImajor

    How Will rare prevent camping in the small villages?

  • CaveManCronch

    i think the reason behind it is to try stop any "griefing" (a term i use very lightly in this game) and have more chance of playing the game without being sunk all the time, players may fear dying and not always attack everyship they see but this will have the opposite effect, galleons will always just chase sloops now as they know they can just kill him over again untill he decides to scuttle as they know he is losing gold everytime they kill him.

    if rare wants to help the more pve based players this is not the way to do it.

  • Gulpee Rex
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    I like the idea of death cost. It's OK now if you die. It isn't a punishment. But...

    What if...

    • A team mate will blown you up with a explosive barrel?
    • An other crew entered your ship and spawnkilled you?

    I would say the cost of these events should be 0 gold.

  • Uberkull
    Master
    Insider

    Seen the future patch notes, read some of the threads. Let me toss some numbers out and see what you think...

    https://i.imgur.com/0C0lfV9_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

    If anyone has done the Skull Fort event, you probably do die a lot. More so if you have less members. You probably rely on death-rez-repeat technique. So lets say...

    2 players, 20 deaths each to complete a Skull Fort event. Thats avg if no other players try to pvp you. Say the Death Ferry charges you 100g per death, thats 2000g loss for a Skull Fort event. You get around 12-15k gold if you turn in all the treasure. So...
    15000-2000=13000 gold for a Skull Fort event if you get all the treasure back and don’t die over 20 times. Ok, not bad.

    Now, lets add some reality. Say the Death Ferry charges 1000g per death, now we are talking 20000g loss for the same Skull Fort example. So...
    15000-20000= -5000 gold for a Skull Fort event.

    Now you basically eliminated content from the game since the whole game is based on earning and saving gold to aquire items. No one who is saving up for Ship skins is going near Skull Fort if they risk losing their saved gold.

    More math...
    Current full ship skins, 210,000g minimum
    Skull Fort event gold reward = 15000g max
    Total Skull Fort events to get a set of Ship Skins is..

    210000/15000=14 Skull Fort events....if you never die.
    If you die only 10 times and the Death ferry charges 1000g per death...
    210000/(15000-10000)=42 Skull Fort events

    Now this is if the Skull Fort events actually go well. Add pvp deaths, unexpected deaths, and basically no one bothers with the Skull Fort event

  • TheAidenV
    Seafarer

    @khaleesibot

    The main downside i see with it would be taking the risk of completing a skeleton fort, dying a few times therefore losing an amount of gold. Completing the fort and then being sank by another crew and them taking all your loot. This means you've done all the dirty work and payed for it, the outcome will be a whole load of ships lingering around the fort until a group of silly billys take it on.

    There are alot of other reasons this shouldn't be implemented into game. Please don't.

  • CoffeeArt687098
    Marauder
    Insider

    @khaleesibot
    I think 'small fee' needs quantifying a little bit. There's huge speculation on the forums atm as to what that means...

    Repeated deaths at a fort is different to a sole, unlucky shark death by a shipwreck. Suffering multiple spawn killings (plus a tax in gold) will feel like salt rubbed in the wounds to some...

    Do you fall off a cliff & die- more fool you- I hope the Ferryman has a suitable put-down for you... I can imagine a suitably Rare-esque response... Done well, this will add to the SoT experience- after all, you have to pay the Ferryman to cross the River Styx...

    I think a little more info will promote informed responses, but I'm reserving my judgement so far...

  • NoxSamus

    @derkgoesbezerko said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    Death by other players shouldn't charge you. IMO, dying by something in the environment should be the only thing that charges you.

    Wait...what happens if you don't have the funds? Are you pretty much stuck on the Ferry to sweep the dust from past souls for life?

    no you go into the negative, and need to pay the late fee with intrest.

  • Pilks4k
    Founder

    When you die odds are you will loose your loot that's enough of a penalty adding a death penalty does not fit this game at all as silly deaths is half the fun death penalty's are found in more serous pvp games....

    So its not needed if this is to discourage griefing then its the wrong move! as this hurts the grieved more if a player repeatedly kills the same person over and over without dying themselves then a penalty need to be added to that player reduce their health for a period of time or something.

  • Thewolfman321
    Captain
    Founder

    @khaleesibot If I can play both sides here, then yes, there does need to be some kind of deterrent for death, but a cost related to the actually dying is silly. It would be sooo much better to implement a cost to repair/unsink the ship when it takes damage or sinks.

    E.g. If you have been in combat and the ship has taken damage, it should stay that way visually until you pay the money to repair the hull, sails, etc. This could also be another mechanic in the sense that if you don't repair, say, the sails, then your ship will be considerably slower.

    Or have a type of doctor shop so you can break your legs and need a potion to fix that. There's so many better ways to implement a danger deterrent than, you died, we will make you pay this much gold. Or, at the very least, there should be an activity you can do so you don't have to pay, like fight your way through the souls of the dead. This would also make the ferry of the damned a little interesting as currently there is nothing to do.

  • RiskiestGeeMan
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @khaleesibot seeing alot of players worried about the no gold and death scenario. Think it could add more to the way the ferry of the damned is seen and interacted with. Excited to see how things will progress with this new dynamic.

  • NoBlackThunder
    Ship Mate

    @khaleesibot No find a better way. Its stupid that a person that gets spawn killed gets punished. If you wanna have a death cost.. Then add a pve mode and add death cost there and lower the general rewards from chest with 25% or so . Then you can have a death cost .. But for open PVP play NO ... its stupid to punish people even more

  • AmyKittee
    Commander
    Insider
    Founder

    It doesn't seem like the best idea, If you've died its likely that you've already lost something in the form on treasure. While I do think there should be more risk involved in dying, I dont think losing gold should be it. I hope the team reconsider this move and make the right decision.

  • HappyTA0
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    A penalty of death my be a nice option, but this rule will hit the dead one maybe twice.
    first he dies by player and have to play
    second he loose all his stuff and no way to fight the way back, because maybe to expensive?

    pvp in order to fight for gold and honor is good.

    bu giving the crew that loses the fight a doubled penalty.. hm.. a wise choice?

  • KgmsHylian
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @knifelife said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    @khaleesibot I believe work needs to be done on the ship spawn camping before this gets implemented or i can see it getting abused and alot of people getting frustrated.

    Very worried about this.

    Normally im up for being careful and having a punishment for death, bt i just dont think this is the game for it. I like doing crazy jump or insane plans and wouldn't not want to do them for fear of having my gold slowly trickling away.

    But the defining factor for me will have to be when we get actual prices ect..

    Also agreeing much with this. ^ I would like to see prices, because this may be a really painful update. Rather introduce penalty for ship being sunk, and such. Also the reward of it, the community was talking about wanting floating barrels in place of the sunken ship with parts of the supplies they had, or just random basic floating barrels get spawned on it, good enough too.

    I don't think this death penalty will make people want to be less agressive, most likely just frustrate those that already had problems. :/

  • Hudson RL
    Lord
    Insider
    Founder

    Rare please, of all the things that need to be done and added to this game. Charging us for dying is not one of them. I can’t believe this is even under consideration.

  • LIFEWCOKE
    Commander
    Boatswain
    Founder

    Yay, something to finally spend gold on! /s

  • Ever Reddy
    Commander
    Insider
    Boatswain
    Founder

    I like the fact that this will introduce more of an element of risk and give dying some small consequence. I don't think it should be too detrimental though, just enough to make people think twice, especially about throwing themselves wildly into the fray over and over again.

    I also like the fact that the cost will scale with the cause, although I think it should also scale with the amount of cash a player currently has. If it's a set amount across all players then it will penalise new and poor players much more harshly than those with huge reserves of gold. But if the amount is a small percentage of the gold you have, it will will hopefully encourage spending (as you can't lose your items) while avoiding unduly penalising those who are just starting out.

    As for the concerns people have about spawn killing, I think that could be addressed by better highlighting the Scuttle Ship option as I get the impression that many people are still unaware of it. I'd also suggest spawning players much further away when it is used so as to avoid them running into the same crews so quickly.

  • Sargent Sully
    Master
    Insider

    I mentioned this concept as way to still have a “ferryman’s cut” in a dicussion regarding a PVE concept that may be a nice alt for this whole conflict.

    “A while back I did have one idea. (I ask of you, reader, to hear me out).

    Essentially the idea would be like GTA's "passive" system, except the passive player could be a ghost pirate. Here is some of my idea details:

    -Player becomes passive ethereal ghost form we see on the Ferry
    -Payout rates for quests could be reduced as the "Ferryman's cut" that has been the highlight of discussions lately.
    -A cool-down timer between swapping in and out, or better yet have it chose before setting sail.
    -Possible increased damage from skeletons as they are fellow undead?

    It is just an idea/concept. Please be
    courteous with the criticism”

    I am sorry for it not being the most relevant, but it may be a way to solve several issues.

  • Bieltan
    Sailor

    My 2 doubloons? Awful idea. The thing that hooked me about this game is the sheer, gleeful anarchy of it. Life is cheap, and stupid/epic deaths are highly amusing. Death Tax will hurt this aspect of the game, and when there are already numerous complaints regarding lack of depth, hurting one of the games plus points is asinine.

    Look, I totally get that brute-forcing Skeleton Forts is something they dont want happening. Its EZ-Mode and unbalanced. I get that. Instead of Death Tax, how about the Boss despawns after a certain number of player deaths? That makes more sense to me.

  • Aeekto
    Marauder
    Founder

    as said in another thread:

    Instead of punishing the victims (even more) ONLY the aggressor should get punished once he dies, like in all hardcore PvP-Games with full loot outthere (the well known RED players).
    If one guy of your group fires their cannons, pistols or anything else at someone else they and their ship get flagged as aggressor (most games use the color red) so he will get goldloss once he dies.... basicly taking the risk for a possible reward.
    Attacking or defending against a "RED" group wont flag you so the victims and nice players wont suffer even more (no goldloss on death) but have a chance to punish people that have been aggressive or just plain defend themselves against them.

    And before someone says "carebear":
    I´m an alltime RED player in every single game outthere... but one of the nicer ones since i never gank unarmed players or newbies.
    In all these games the punishment is even harder on death as a red player, not only drop everything you´re wearing, but even suffer a statloss..... and i loved this mechanics because of its tension of taking the risk!

  • AzBat360
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    Hey Joe & Mike what happened to your Gold being safe once we turned our spoils into the traders? Don't make me go back find every video & timestamp where you said this.

  • Wolff34
    Founder

    “I’d rather have fleas than this change!”

    Wolff34

    imgur.com

    imgur.com

  • Z1N6
    Founder

    Enable death cost for players over 20+ or better yet 50,000+ coin to then take some off that.

  • a13on
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    #BeMorePirate

    So kill players.

    #DontBeKilled

    Punish those that are killed

    It doesn't make any sense. If you don't want people to die then give them more than 5 bullets while fighting skeletons with unlimited ammo. Punishing death is the worst idea anybody can come up with. Here's an idea, a crazy one: Make surviving rewarding instead of dying discouraging.

  • Cuthallion

    No no no. We have all out wars sometimes between my friends and I. This would just p**s people off and move them to a different game. You wanna add something?? Give ships the option to be private so random people can't join your crew.

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