Death Loss is Needed

@katttruewalker I was thinking of somewhere in between, not losing hours of work, clearly not that, more like enough where you are actually worried about your ship.

My idea was to make people feel like their ship is worth something, not something they can spawn a million times over without cost.

But I see your point.

@v**a-hombre I respect your opinion, maybe punish was the wrong word to use.

What I meant was make it feel like your ship is worth something to you. Not something you can spawn over a million times without cost, that harms the roleplay aspect a bit for me.

@frunchtost
I think you got what I was saying a little twisted.

I'm 100% a PvPer. PvEers need to get better yes. I agree.

But I mean attacking, defending a ship... I would think that if you lose gold.... It would be twice as bad for the defenders.... if they lose.
I just think it should be left the way it is honestly

@frunchtost

The game is structured intentionally so that PvP would be a minimal loss.

Sounds as though you want the game to be more of an RPG when it's really more of a FFA shooter. Sign in, sail around, and kill or be killed.

The appeal of the game is that it's fun and silly. Creating penalties to PvP detracts from that.

Your argument that placing more value on the ship itself would create a better gaming environment is subjective, and if you read most people's opinion on the matter, you'll see yours is more of a 'one off'.

@stem589 I disagree, a lot of people agree with me. Have you ever heard of a vocal minority? The amount of messages I have gotten in support outweighs the disagree. Its just that the latest couple of posts disagree, and thats fine.

But I will not ignore your point, I just want to say that if they do not implement this system, nothing will change for me. Ill still preorder the game, still play it with friends, and still have a s**t ton of fun, it was just a suggestion...

The reason I wanted this was that personally I want to feel like my ship is worth something to me. If I know in the back of my mind that If I die I will just respawn for free with supplies, it limits how far I will go to protect it. Maybe thats just a me thing, but I felt that it may be a good system to implement.

@nefrit-od true
this will end in an PvP trolling game where people sail around to troll other... cause there is no reason to farm Gold.

a question so they put that if you can not even enter

Scale Test Install Instructions (PC and Xbox)
By Blaze
Last Updated: February 28, 2018

Played before? Read below

If you have played before you can run the Sea of Thieves Closed Beta client already installed on your system. Providing this has been checked for updates it will allow you into the scale test.

If you have removed the game from your system please follow the instructions below for your desired platform.

@avirex-idyll Nothing has changed... are you blind? The attacker went from 0 being NO RISK AT ALL to 1 meaning the attacker went from having nothing to lose to having something to lose.

And yes, the defender has 2, yes, as they SHOULD. If you are carrying gold and are being attacked by someone who isn't carrying gold no s**t you are going to have more risk involved, that makes sense.

It makes it so that the attacker actually fears losing so if they feel they have a chance at loss they might not take the risk.

1-2 makes sense, attackers have some risk but less than defender. 0-1 is Never ok because that means one side is riskless.

@barnabas-seadog In terms of games a beta that is a month from release should be relatively close to finished. I understand they have plans to add more before launch, but that does not mean we cannot criticize the current build.

Also, the whole point of a beta is to get feedback as to what they should put in the final game. I can't assume that because this was a beta they will psychically know my suggestions for the game and implement them, that makes no sense.

i think this would make people overly protective. i like it the way it is. i dont want to run all the time.

@barnabas-seadog said in Death Loss is Needed:

Rare has their own game plan. This game has been in development for years.

Apparently this is expected to be a cash cow for Rare/MS for at least two years beyond launch. I've never heard of Rare prior to SoT, but as a pc gamer I can tell they are not afraid to think out of the box and introduce some innovation in gaming for both consoles and pc.
I'm betting on them knowing what they are doing, more than their need for ideas from this forum.
They said the Closed Beta was just a sample of gameplay, and yet an avalanche of "no content" post happens.
Then for two Class Scale test they said the purpose is not to criticize content but to push the server load.
We all should wait for this next beta, where they reveal a little bit more before launch.

@barnabas-seadog This is some of the most backwards thinking I have ever seen...

Are you actually going around telling people that they shouldn't be posting feedback on a forum because YOU trust the devs... I hate to tell you but that's your opinion. If you feel you trust the devs and don't wanna give feedback thats fine, but don't tell other people not to because YOU think the devs are "innovative" and know what they are doing.

-And I UNDERSTAND this is a beta, I UNDERSTAND this is only a sample of the content, the reason we make suggestions is to make sure the content we are not seeing is what we want.

Exactly, there also needs to be a death loss to stop players from jus kamikazee their new spawn ships into others.

Maybe if a player dies it drops a 'Deadmans Key'. This key can be used to open a Deadmans Chest and it gives you a small amount of the players 'bank' value.

@l2l-havok-l2l

@l2l-havok-l2l said in Death Loss is Needed:

So I don't know if your aware but the game isnt out, so currently if you are an insider you got invited to play in the Alpha and Beta...you never played the final game.

Now I can agree with you partially but death does have meaning if you have chests or are in the middle of a voyage because if you die and your ship sinks you don't get the voyage back, if you have a high tier voyage it is now lost and has to be re purchased... but now we go deeper, your saying gold becomes useless after you acquire all the cosmetics you want...I think that might be true but I also think by the time you purchase everything you want there gonna have fresh content like new weapons and stuff...

But honestly nobody knows how things are gonna play out till the game drops...we just gotta wait and see.

you don't lose voyages only chests. When you spawn back you still keep your maps. You just got to mark it again on the map because the mark disappears.

@frunchtost said in Death Loss is Needed:

@stem589 I disagree, a lot of people agree with me. Have you ever heard of a vocal minority? The amount of messages I have gotten in support outweighs the disagree. Its just that the latest couple of posts disagree, and thats fine.

But I will not ignore your point, I just want to say that if they do not implement this system, nothing will change for me. Ill still preorder the game, still play it with friends, and still have a s**t ton of fun, it was just a suggestion...

The reason I wanted this was that personally I want to feel like my ship is worth something to me. If I know in the back of my mind that If I die I will just respawn for free with supplies, it limits how far I will go to protect it. Maybe thats just a me thing, but I felt that it may be a good system to implement.

I agree. When playing the game and we were being chased by other ships while we had treasure, we just crashed the ship to the outpost, jumped out with chests, and sold chests while letting the ship sink. We lost no time and we spawned in another area to get more maps. There was no threat. If we saw a ship while hunting for treasure and we didn't find it, we just left someone there while the rest of the crew ran with the ship. I would set the ship to max sails and jump out while the enemy ship followed. I would try to board there ship to see if they got any treasure and if they do I try to take a chest with me or I just jump out or die. Either way, I would go back to my crew hunting the treasure and once enough time passed, we scuttled, respawned with new ship and came back to the island to pick up the treasure. If the ship found us again then we would crash to the outpost and repeat the cycle. The greatest pvp strategy is to ignore other ships and go about our business. If they manage to destroy our empty ship sailing away, they get their satisfaction while we lose no time treasure hunting.

People need to realize that this is not a competitive game like COD, FIFA, Forza, etc. It's more of an adventure game. Create your own story, have some fun, etc. No leaderboards. In a competitive game, if you lose, your rank goes down, you don't get a reward, etc. In SoT, you lose your treasure if you had some but that's really it. You can continue on. If you lost everything you worked on (ship, etc) and had to start from scratch (buying new ship and upgrades) then there'd be no point of buying the them because you can lose them any second. You'd push so many people away from the game. Now what happens if you went out and just started sinking every ship? Don't you think there should be a target painted on your back? Everyone out to get you for a reward? When you make a point, you need to look at it both ways. Penalize the losing side and the winning side. Reward one side, reward the other. You have to balance it or the game will become unbalanced.

@tre-oni There is no such thing as greifing, and noone has a problem with PVP, thats just you.

The only case of 'greifing" is when you kill someone and their ship respawns close enough to attack again. Other than that all PVP is not greifing. That word does not apply as it implies the people are doing something unintended and not meant to be done in game, however as this is a pirate game and not barbies adventure it is intended.

Get over this idea that people that attack others are "greifers", They are "pirates".

As in right now, your ship means nothing. If you die you can respawn for free with no cost and it comes with supplies. This makes it feel like your ship is not worth anything to you. If you get bested in combat you should have some sense that your ship was worth something and because you got bested you lost it.

@thejolirouge i agree with this. this game has one of the most welcoming and friendly communities ive ever seen. mainly due to the fact that there arent huge penalties in this game. it feels like its more about being immersed in a pirate universe with your friends and enjoying it rather than being try hard and better than everyone else. higher penalties would only make the learning curve harder for new players and prevent people from joining our impressively friendly community.

everyone seems to forget this game revolves around a balance of PVP and PVE and the developers have done that very well. if you PVE only youll be bad at pvp and get screwed when meeting other pirates. if you only PVP youll progress slow and make much less money. you need both to fully enjoy this game.

@thejolirouge
This is a "false attribution" fallacy. Trying to attribute things from one unrelated group to say that another group has to be like that.

Every example you just mentioned are FPS games, the loss mechanic is not there for when you die because the "loss" is when you lose the game. There is no "losing the game" in sea of thieves, the two types of games you just mentioned are incomparable.

Thats like saying "Oh well a lot of mmo's do X and it works so this fps game must have X"

@toastywrath Assuming that "because you do a lot ov PVE you will suck at pvp" and vice versa is not game balance. Thats not at all what that means. You seem to not know what you are talking about.

@frunchtost said in Death Loss is Needed:

@avirex-idyll Nothing has changed... are you blind? The attacker went from 0 being NO RISK AT ALL to 1 meaning the attacker went from having nothing to lose to having something to lose.

And yes, the defender has 2, yes, as they SHOULD. If you are carrying gold and are being attacked by someone who isn't carrying gold no s**t you are going to have more risk involved, that makes sense.

It makes it so that the attacker actually fears losing so if they feel they have a chance at loss they might not take the risk.

1-2 makes sense, attackers have some risk but less than defender. 0-1 is Never ok because that means one side is riskless.

I see what you're saying, but in a game where gold seems to be infinite with no consumption beyond cosmetics, there will be some pirates (my self namely as the perfect look for my pirate is underwear) that won't care if there's a cost associated with respawning your ship.

Also consider 'end game' here.

In a couple months, almost everyone will have run every quests, collected every piece of gear, and gained max rep with every faction......... what are they doing then?......... PvP rampage.

Quests and chests will mean nothing as gold will mean nothing so death loss associated with gold will mean nothing.

@frunchtost actually yeah if your main focus is PVE your combat skills will suffer. thats kind of how improvement through practice works bud. its skill based not equipment lol
also i didnt say "alot of pve" i said if you focus on it solely you will suck at pvp. and thats true. sailing isnt easy. most people on this game dont even know how tacking works. or how wind affects firing positions and i could go on further but im sure you get my point.