I was hoping this would be taken care of on it's own, but unfortunately it hasn't. Rare needs to release all the available/reasonable stats for the game(ship speeds, weapon dmg, projectile speeds, cannon stats, CC stats, etc.). The latest patch that took away the damage falloff that NO ONE KNEW was even in the game was the last straw. There have been countless debates on these forums that go nowhere because we don't have the information(ex. people complaining about brigantine ship speed.) Is it faster? Is it slower? how much? under what circumstances? no one knows! so these discussions devolve into "well from my experience..." or "you are probably doing "X" wrong." We need the info and there is no excuse for it("it's not a competitive game" is not a valid argument). Rare also really needs to do much better at patch notes. There have been plenty of changes made in an update that were not shown in the patch notes. It's not hard. Every game I've ever played that updates has fully detailed and accurate patch notes. Either you know what's in the update, but someone was too lazy to compile it all or there isn't enough communication internally and no one knows exactly what's in these updates.
Rare NEEDS to release game stats.
Well this was worth repeating. It is very difficult to get accurate test results and i have had many players with contridictory experiences. I Have played alot and spend hours testing and trying to figure things out and still end up being worng as there are some instances of bugs and things that are broken that we can't tell if thats the way it's supposed to be or not.
Communication is very important and althou Rare tries very hard they are still lacking in this one area. Many times there intent is simply not clear and we can't give them proper feedback if we don't understand there end goal.
We needed more detailed patch notes from the beginning. @BETSILL i belive we both agree on this matter but what do you think Rare requires to accomplish this? For me they need a Community Manerger/Representative that can act as a better metiator between Rare and the playerbase. I still to this day see a contridiction between what Rare says they want to do and what the actually end up doing. One converstion i had with a fellow pirate he stated " They seem to do option A, When the Community wonders why they just didn't do option B". Where option B seems to have been the most obvious answer to the problem. Rare is a very creative studio who prides themselves on breaking the mold. Now i respect that but somtimes that ends up bitting them in the rear.
BTW this could explain why players have reported being one shoted by the EoR.
@enf0rcer I just wanna know what stuff does and not have to guess. We are always making choices in games, but in SoT they aren't informed decisions because the information just isn't there. As far as community interaction is concerned I wish they would drop the BS PR speak. When they keep forcing themselves to say "stories" and other gobbledygook, it makes them look deceptive. No one talks like they do in these videos(I'm sure they don't normally talk like that either). They look much more genuine when they are talking about details that they can't overly embellish. Their foggy way of speaking to the community seems to unfortunately carry over to their patch notes and other technical information releases.
@zherron-vorse a dit dans Rare NEEDS to release game stats. :
I agree completely. I had to go and gather information myself from arbitrary player run speed (8mph) all the way to explosive range of gunpowder barrels. It would be nice to actually have real tangible information at our fingertips that we can actually use and take advantage of.
8mph seems quite arbitrary for sure, you'd better take average walking man speed, which is roughly 2.5 mph, as reference for walking avatar's speed. I did it to calculate the astonishing ships speeds, which are totally ludicrous (ex : 15+ mph for sloop's max speed)
@betsill said in Rare NEEDS to release game stats.:
@enf0rcer I just wanna know what stuff does and not have to guess. We are always making choices in games, but in SoT they aren't informed decisions because the information just isn't there. As far as community interaction is concerned I wish they would drop the BS PR speak. When they keep forcing themselves to say "stories" and other gobbledygook, it makes them look deceptive. No one talks like they do in these videos(I'm sure they don't normally talk like that either). They look much more genuine when they are talking about details that they can't overly embellish. Their foggy way of speaking to the community seems to unfortunately carry over to their patch notes and other technical information releases.
You have a good point alot of what the devs say are vague and can be left opened to interpretation. Althou when they talk about "Stories" They clearly definind that as player made content. Such as the banna boat, marrick son derrick and such. Althou there still is know way to share that in-game. As for more detailed example of what i refering to are things Like the Rowboat and how they intended it to be used as it's primary function was to get safely to DR islands which ended up being point less a they are both a limited resource and a disposable item. Also like the brig and match making system. There are many other things that seem where the stated intent did not seem to align with what implemented.
Id like to see a chart with pic of sails directions wind speeds alignment of sails in wind and wave hight.
I think the biggest problem would be rare keeps changing the speeds and how the ships move. I do feel all the ships are faster now than a few months ago and the ships slow down faster.
Also a good crew plays a big part in the ships speed. A good crew is allways the faster ship.@betsill I'm like some of the other people, I like not knowing. Knowledge is power in this game, and I like learning things as I go.
I do want to point 1 thing out.
It is not that no one knew about the damage fall off. There was no damage fall off.
Rare made a mistake somewhere. Either it was actually in the game and just never realized it wasn't working due to some bug, or they forgot to implement it and thought it was working just fine this whole time.
They could have just mis-spoke entirely and it was never a feature to begin with, intended or not.
If they thought it was in the game the whole time, it shows they REALLY don't play enough of their own game or don't know enough about it at least.
Honest question: does actual ship speed matter? It’s all relative. You’re faster in a sloop than a brig at certain wind directions and slower in others. But to say “it goes 15 knots” like above is completely meaningless as far as I can tell. Only possible use would be to figure out how long you need to sail around to get the 1000 Athena miles (answer: a reeeeealy long time so don’t bother with it).
Or is there just something I’m missing from the above? The calculation for how far you need to be from a gunpowder barrel - no real practical value since while you’re running from the skeleton he’s also running (at a calculable percentage slower than you... 🙄) you can’t see him anyway!
@enf0rcer said in Rare NEEDS to release game stats.:
@betsill said in Rare NEEDS to release game stats.:
@enf0rcer I just wanna know what stuff does and not have to guess. We are always making choices in games, but in SoT they aren't informed decisions because the information just isn't there. As far as community interaction is concerned I wish they would drop the BS PR speak. When they keep forcing themselves to say "stories" and other gobbledygook, it makes them look deceptive. No one talks like they do in these videos(I'm sure they don't normally talk like that either). They look much more genuine when they are talking about details that they can't overly embellish. Their foggy way of speaking to the community seems to unfortunately carry over to their patch notes and other technical information releases.
You have a good point alot of what the devs say are vague and can be left opened to interpretation. Althou when they talk about "Stories" They clearly definind that as player made content. Such as the banna boat, marrick son derrick and such. Althou there still is know way to share that in-game.
I understand that. My point is the words they use. "stories" in this case is an obviously forced and overly wondrous way of defining it. Just like the now meme "new and interesting ways". There's a marketing term for this but I can't remember what it is. Instead of accurately describing what it is or not spoiling, they say stuff like "In sea of thieves you have the freedom to explore a RICH, fantastical shared world. Full of adventure and endless emergent action... across the vast and varied world of sea of thieves, you could spend a life time exploring every sun drenched island and outpost, climbing your way through claustrophobic caves, and scouring the depths for sunken wrecks.". There are better(or worse in this case) examples of this, but I just got this from the first couple min of the launch trailer. It's very misleading wording to over hype the game instead of letting the game speak for itself. There are also the times of blatant false advertising like the E3 gameplay trailer Here. Go ahead and count the amount of things in this trailer that aren't in the game or activities insinuate(like skeleton boss dungeon fights).
As for more detailed example of what i refering to are things Like the Rowboat and how they intended it to be used as it's primary function was to get safely to DR islands which ended up being point less a they are both a limited resource and a disposable item. Also like the brig and match making system. There are many other things that seem where the stated intent did not seem to align with what implemented.
This is just a problem of lack of coherent game design. They seem to just throw stuff in the game without thinking through how it feels to play and how other game play aspect will interact with each-other. When something obviously doesn't work the way they intend, they force it, like with rowboats. It makes zero sense that volcanoes are sentient and actually target players and it makes even less sense that being in rowboats make you immune to volcano targeting. They really need a new game designer because anyone who would design a game like this shouldn't be making choices. This indirectly related to the topic of this post I think in that they are just not thinking about these things very deeply.
@hynieth True, but "need" implies much more urgency and seriousness. I could say "Rare could you please release more stats?" but that doesn't convey at all that having those stats are a very important part of playing the game and making choices.
Of course you then added:I like them a lot and want to know things that don't affect me.
to be passive aggressive and straw man my post by saying that giving criticism makes someone a "needy greedy baby", so thanks for adding to the discussion.
@betsill said in Rare NEEDS to release game stats.:
@enf0rcer said in Rare NEEDS to release game stats.:
@betsill said in Rare NEEDS to release game stats.:
@enf0rcer I just wanna know what stuff does and not have to guess. We are always making choices in games, but in SoT they aren't informed decisions because the information just isn't there. As far as community interaction is concerned I wish they would drop the BS PR speak. When they keep forcing themselves to say "stories" and other gobbledygook, it makes them look deceptive. No one talks like they do in these videos(I'm sure they don't normally talk like that either). They look much more genuine when they are talking about details that they can't overly embellish. Their foggy way of speaking to the community seems to unfortunately carry over to their patch notes and other technical information releases.
You have a good point alot of what the devs say are vague and can be left opened to interpretation. Althou when they talk about "Stories" They clearly definind that as player made content. Such as the banna boat, marrick son derrick and such. Althou there still is know way to share that in-game.
I understand that. My point is the words they use. "stories" in this case is an obviously forced and overly wondrous way of defining it. Just like the now meme "new and interesting ways". There's a marketing term for this but I can't remember what it is. Instead of accurately describing what it is or not spoiling, they say stuff like "In sea of thieves you have the freedom to explore a RICH, fantastical shared world. Full of adventure and endless emergent action... across the vast and varied world of sea of thieves, you could spend a life time exploring every sun drenched island and outpost, climbing your way through claustrophobic caves, and scouring the depths for sunken wrecks.". There are better(or worse in this case) examples of this, but I just got this from the first couple min of the launch trailer. It's very misleading wording to over hype the game instead of letting the game speak for itself. There are also the times of blatant false advertising like the E3 gameplay trailer Here. Go ahead and count the amount of things in this trailer that aren't in the game or activities insinuate(like skeleton boss dungeon fights).
Well i do agree that devs would be far better off just letting a game speak for itself rather then crate artificial hype leading to unrealistic expectation which just results in disssapointment if not just outright false advertisement.
Respwan recent proved this with there game Apex Legends in which they allowed everyone including EA think there working on Titanfall 3. Then they released the there game and said almost nothing andlet the game advertize itself.
As for more detailed example of what i refering to are things Like the Rowboat and how they intended it to be used as it's primary function was to get safely to DR islands which ended up being point less a they are both a limited resource and a disposable item. Also like the brig and match making system. There are many other things that seem where the stated intent did not seem to align with what implemented.
This is just a problem of lack of coherent game design. They seem to just throw stuff in the game without thinking through how it feels to play and how other game play aspect will interact with each-other. When something obviously doesn't work the way they intend, they force it, like with rowboats. It makes zero sense that volcanoes are sentient and actually target players and it makes even less sense that being in rowboats make you immune to volcano targeting. They really need a new game designer because anyone who would design a game like this shouldn't be making choices. This indirectly related to the topic of this post I think in that they are just not thinking about these things very deeply.
True this could also be the case. I felt it was more a lack of focus as and were simply unsure what direction to take. It seemed to me there was a lack of leadership as it became obvious that those in the leadship were unaware of many things in their own game. Even if they don't play there game that much i expect they would have some method of staying informed.
Revealing precise numbers and stats is so contrarian to everything this game and its design is about.
I highly doubt this would ever happen, but best of luck to you.
I love that this game means so many different things to different people, and is enjoyed in so many different ways, but I don't think the mindset that wants/expects hard numbers is aligned with what Rare is doing here at all.Just my thoughts though. =)
@betsill said in Rare NEEDS to release game stats.:
I was hoping this would be taken care of on it's own, but unfortunately it hasn't. Rare needs to release all the available/reasonable stats for the game(ship speeds, weapon dmg, projectile speeds, cannon stats, CC stats, etc.). The latest patch that took away the damage falloff that NO ONE KNEW was even in the game was the last straw. There have been countless debates on these forums that go nowhere because we don't have the information(ex. people complaining about brigantine ship speed.) Is it faster? Is it slower? how much? under what circumstances? no one knows! so these discussions devolve into "well from my experience..." or "you are probably doing "X" wrong." We need the info and there is no excuse for it("it's not a competitive game" is not a valid argument). Rare also really needs to do much better at patch notes. There have been plenty of changes made in an update that were not shown in the patch notes. It's not hard. Every game I've ever played that updates has fully detailed and accurate patch notes. Either you know what's in the update, but someone was too lazy to compile it all or there isn't enough communication internally and no one knows exactly what's in these updates.
No one knew there was damage falloff because there was no damage falloff. Just bad hit registration being blamed on damage falloff. Coincidentally, the hit registration is even worse now.
The plot thickens...
@pdt-mindstream that's the best comment contrary to my point thanks. Agreed, games are different to different people. I would much prefer for things to not need to explained in a spread sheet, but sometimes that's the best way. Something like ship speed would be ignored by most people, but some people really want to know what's going on. "this crew caught me? I thought my ship was faster? googles stats on ships* "oh, I didn't do this right" or "oh, I should have been faster, this must be a bug so i'll report it". There are tons of benefits to the info being out there and no real downsides. If you don't wanna know exact stats then don't look them up. There's also some shenanigans that rare pulls like with volcanoes and rowboats that I would much rather not sink 5 times to find out that they coded in an aimbot for the volcano and they coded the aimbot to ignore the rowboat. No one is going to think either of these situations will be the case(you can go back to posts complaining about the volcanoes and see tons of comments from people denying that the volcanoes target people long after it was generally accepted to be the case). It's by far better when things are understood intuitive;y, but not everything will and that's why we need stats. Testing certain things yourself to find out is not an option in alot of cases(like ship speeds).
@fluidsc said in Rare NEEDS to release game stats.:
@betsill said in Rare NEEDS to release game stats.:
I was hoping this would be taken care of on it's own, but unfortunately it hasn't. Rare needs to release all the available/reasonable stats for the game(ship speeds, weapon dmg, projectile speeds, cannon stats, CC stats, etc.). The latest patch that took away the damage falloff that NO ONE KNEW was even in the game was the last straw. There have been countless debates on these forums that go nowhere because we don't have the information(ex. people complaining about brigantine ship speed.) Is it faster? Is it slower? how much? under what circumstances? no one knows! so these discussions devolve into "well from my experience..." or "you are probably doing "X" wrong." We need the info and there is no excuse for it("it's not a competitive game" is not a valid argument). Rare also really needs to do much better at patch notes. There have been plenty of changes made in an update that were not shown in the patch notes. It's not hard. Every game I've ever played that updates has fully detailed and accurate patch notes. Either you know what's in the update, but someone was too lazy to compile it all or there isn't enough communication internally and no one knows exactly what's in these updates.
No one knew there was damage falloff because there was no damage falloff. Just bad hit registration being blamed on damage falloff. Coincidentally, the hit registration is even worse now.
The plot thickens...
There was dmg fall off. The fact that you are denying it proves my point exactly. This is from the dev patch update:
"Removed Scaling Damage Distance
For many players, this has probably gone unnoticed, instead being perceived as lag or server issues. Up until this update, we’ve actually been scaling the damage on projectiles, with longer range shots inflicting less damage on a target. While physically more accurate, it leads to more frustration and we’ve decided to remove it in favour of a more solid feeling overall experience. If you’re lucky enough to land that awesome shot between two moving ships, we’ll short change you no longer!"A few questions and I will be done.....
- Do you enjoy the game? IF YES MOVE ON
- If you answered yes to #1, why does anything else matter? Its rhetorical just play the game for the game enjoy it and dont whine about something that has no real value in the game.
- What is all the info you want gonna do in game for you?
and I am done.
Ship speeds at least needs to be addressed by rare. Cant tell you how many people legit think the sloop is the fastest ship against the wind. And I'm here to tell you it's not true. It is indeed the slowest ship in every possible instance. Rare needs to confirm this at least to kill the whole brig/galleon is slower against the wind. There not. The tracking abilities of a galleon and brig are better then that of a sloop and rare should at least tell the community the facts about ship speeds. It matters to me. Not having statistics like this readily available is bad game design. Most other games would have those speeds shown to you as you select the ship. Having less game statistics doesnt make the game feel more open world pirate like it makes it feel not complete.
@vderickv the sloop is the fastest into the wind, and we know it is because of actual in-game outrunning the other two. Not by much, but enough they can’t catch you. So I don’t know what you’re wanting here, as actual experience isn’t convincing to you so why would “published stats” change your mind?
@haydnsym45 said in Rare NEEDS to release game stats.:
@vderickv the sloop is the fastest into the wind, and we know it is because of actual in-game outrunning the other two. Not by much, but enough they can’t catch you. So I don’t know what you’re wanting here, as actual experience isn’t convincing to you so why would “published stats” change your mind?
Well I know it to be the opposite because of my ingame experience and running from the exact same brig for over 3 hrs. Looks like were at a stalemate and rare just needs to release the stats. Doh.
@haydnsym45 Do you have a video? because i've heard the exact opposite, that the brig is faster into the wind. If it's faster then how much?
So I don’t know what you’re wanting here, as actual experience isn’t convincing to you so why would “published stats” change your mind?
Yes... obviously... you can't be serious? official stats are obviously more convincing than player hear say.
hear say doesn't mean anything without proof and that's they problem. All these stupid debates wouldn't happen if we just had the stats.@haydnsym45 said in Rare NEEDS to release game stats.:
@vderickv the sloop is the fastest into the wind, and we know it is because of actual in-game outrunning the other two. Not by much, but enough they can’t catch you. So I don’t know what you’re wanting here, as actual experience isn’t convincing to you so why would “published stats” change your mind?
Brig is faster than sloop with wind and about same speed against the wind. I'm sorry but I'm not sure what in game experience you are talking about as their is none that might prove your point
@goedecke-michel said in Rare NEEDS to release game stats.:
Nope, Rare doesn't need to.
Yes they do! If Rare doesn't do this then the game is gonna die, the stock market is gonna crash, and world war 3 will begin!
@rip-chongy
Discussion on the forums, & opinions come in all shapes & sizes.
Sometimes as an avid reader & contributor to the forum you see the same themes & issues raise their head time & time again.
"I Want Doesn't Get" is a symbol of this.I have a 100% success rate on thoughts & ideas I have posted up on the forums.
100% success as in....... nothing..... I have suggested has realised itself in game. :)I guess what I'm saying is moderate your expectations, "I need, I want" seldom gets you anywhere. I wish you luck though.
I'm first to support the free & open right to expression of thoughts & ideas.
Whilst this at times can be achieved in different ways, sometimes you don't wish to repeat & regurgitate the same arguments for the umpteenth time.If you feel affected by my last post then I'm sorry you feel this way.
I can't change that & believe me it's never ever intended as personal ( not the way I roll )
Just a right to reply (short & sweet/ to the point) a reflection of my own personal feelings.I wish you the best... and to be fair. I will try in the future to see if a post may "rub" others up the wrong way.
But not at the expense of moderating or compromising my own beliefs. I would expect & respect that you would not either.
See you on the Seas (& the forum). Goodluck.Craggy.
edit:
at the core of it is this NEED, the need for instant gratification, we can't always get what we want.
Requests directed at Rare can be toned differently, rather than framed as a demand.
Toned correctly it seems to work better, and is certainly is more civil.I believe @Hynieth has expressed this better than me ( in previous posts and in other threads ) , and IMHO an appropriate view point.
@BETSILL Regarding your take on the E3 trailer:
While it is true that many of the things shown in that trailer aren't in the game, it's not misleading at all. Do you want to know why? Because the operative phrase is that many of the things shown in that trailer aren't in the game YET. It was merely a proof of concept trailer.Early on, Rare made a very distinct declaration: everything you see in their advertising WILL BE IN THE GAME. As an example, we already know that pets are coming, and so are the skeleton pirate lords - clues to Captain Flameheart are everywhere.
Rare has also stated that they have a 2-year lead time on their development - this essentially means that the stuff you're seeing now was 1st thought of a whole 2 years ago. So trust me when I say that Rare has been planning ahead.
The thing you have to remember is that the Sea of Thieves is an ever-growing and expanding world. Things are being added, changed, and removed based upon their decisions and player feedback all of the time.
You just need to learn how to go with the flow and enjoy the ride.
