Need Microtransactions

@personalc0ffee said in Need Microtransactions:

@callmebackdraft I'd like to be buy gold, tbh. Sometimes you just want to skip the grind.

I can't see this ever being a thing, cash shop items sure but buying in game gold is to easy to abuse on both sides.

I don't understand this mentality...

Thanks for selling me content I can't play through... can you sell me the things I am struggling to access because of your design choices?

No no no no no microtransactions!!!!! I dont understand what people dont get, but they dont make the game better. There is no reason to want microtransactions in any game. Once they start putting more microtransactions in for the limited events, then so few people will enjoy the rewards from completing them. Yes, earning the rewards is all about being better than everyone else. Earning rewards should feel... REWARDING!!! It is absolutely NOT rewarding if people can just spend a few bucks to have everything that other people worked hard for. Microtransactions take away the incentive to work for rewards. If you cant put in the time and effort to earn the limited time rewards, then you dont deserve them. It is literally that simple. People that put in the effort and time, deserve to show everybody why they are special. That is in essence, what makes any game fun. People play Mario to beat it, and then be able to say that they can beat it. What if you could pay money to have Mario beaten for you? It would remove the rewarding feel for anyone who actually beats the game.

I can deal with pets as microtransactions, even though I would prefer that pets be earned through playing the game. I cannot deal with microtransactions for the limited time events and such. This would completely ruin the game for me, and for a vast amount of people.

I'm apart of the camp of no Micro transactions. At least, not if I pay AAA pricefor the game. In my eyes, I've paid full cost of this game. Why should I get nickled and dimed, for content I've already paid for in full?

Micro transactions don't belong in this style of game. Free to Play games is where Micro transactions should remain. It makes sense in that model, developers still need some flow of cash.

It seems like people forget what EA and other similar companies have done in the past. Are you all fine with that becoming standard? If we as Gamers keep giving inches to these companies, who keep double dipping in our wallets, we lose in the long run. We get mediocre games like Star Wars Battlefront, and EA pulls record profits.

@nabberwar said in Need Microtransactions:

I'm apart of the camp of no Micro transactions. At least, not if I pay AAA pricefor the game. In my eyes, I've paid full cost of this game. Why should I get nickled and dimed, for content I've already paid for in full?

Micro transactions don't belong in this style of game. Free to Play games is where Micro transactions should remain. It makes sense in that model, developers still need some flow of cash.

It seems like people forget what EA and other similar companies have done in the past. Are you all fine with that becoming standard? If we as Gamers keep giving inches to these companies, who keep double dipping in our wallets, we lose in the long run. We get mediocre games like Star Wars Battlefront, and EA pulls record profits.

At some point they need revenue for something to keep the ship sailing. I don't mind DLC so long as its not shortcuts or double dipping on content they sold already because they designed it out of reach for a lot of players.

@savagetwinky said in Need Microtransactions:

I don't understand this mentality...

Thanks for selling me content I can't play through... can you sell me the things I am struggling to access because of your design choices?

So true. The other side of the doubloon is lots of players just want to buy content instead of playing it. Makes no sense at all. Should play a game instead of buying your way through it.

A cash shop will probably never be “pay to win” in a game like Sea of Thieves, but still a sad part of most games these days to adopt.

@x-crowheart-x said in Need Microtransactions:

@savagetwinky said in Need Microtransactions:

I don't understand this mentality...

Thanks for selling me content I can't play through... can you sell me the things I am struggling to access because of your design choices?

So true. The side of the coin is lots of players just want to buy content instead of playing it. Makes no sense at all. Should play a game instead of buying your way through it.

A cash shop will probably never be “pay to win” in a game like Sea if Thieves, but still a sad part of most games these days to adopt.

Its super unethical. Compare it to a line at disney world at something. Buying the express pass is one way to compare what we are doing. You want to skip the wait or w/e. But there is a physical limit to the amount of people that can get on the ride. So in video game land, you pay to get on the ride then there is a 1-hour wait but your the only one in the line... you can pay for the express lane but they designed the wait in to give the express passes value.

Well not super unethical but its questionable. I don't think the gaming community has really had this discussion when the developer can try to design in their own value and mechanics to create that value. I agree through with the idea that it shouldn't happen in a $60 game... because your paying upfront to go on the ride and attempting to add an in game economy to pay for the content a second time is definitely unethical. F2P games can get away with it, but we really need to talk about the value proposition since you can easily spend way more than $60.

Personally, I hate the whole idea and concept of microtransactions. I think that they are the fastest way to ruin a game.

@savagetwinky
I would ask then, what was that AAA price tag that many paid to play this game? Is that not revenue? I understand whole heartily why developers need money. I am not disputing their need of this. It would be different if DLC was more of an expansion like Borderlands, WoW, Bethesda Games etc...

However this isn't what I'm arguing against. I don't believe you should charge full AAA game price, then drip feed content and charge for it.

@nabberwar said in Need Microtransactions:

@savagetwinky
I would ask then, what was that AAA price tag that many paid to play this game? Is that not revenue? I understand whole heartily why developers need money. I am not disputing their need of this. It would be different if DLC was more of an expansion like Borderlands, WoW, Bethesda Games etc...

However this isn't what I'm arguing against. I don't believe you should charge full AAA game price, then drip feed content and charge for it.

well... what else do you want them to sell us for next year? Or the year after if they continue to support this game's as a service? Those $60 only go so far to pay for a yearly salary.

I like elite dangerous's season pass you get all the updates for a year... but that splits the community.. I'm ok with buying pets and other junk, if it adds to the experience without limiting players ability to enjoy content added. Pets/Cosmetics seem like a good way of doing it. Like there hasn't been anything on paying for expansions like WoW/Borderlands/Bethesda Games. Those as far as I can tell are going to be free "drip fed" content.

I'm going to venture a guess (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that the money earned through MTX goes into the pocket of the publisher and not the developer.

If the developer proposes to make a game for some amount of money, then they are granted that amount of money to cover costs of development - including the wages of the workers. Any profit thereafter belongs to the publisher. Maybe the developers would get a percentage of the MTX, I don't know for sure (maybe that depends on the contract between the developer and publisher). But people make it sound as though the developers need the money from MTX to get paid, when instead they earn a salary that is paid from funds that are granted in advance of development.

In the case of an indie title, or a free-to-play game, MTX money may go entirely to the developer. However, for a AAA title, I'm willing to bet the money from MTX goes to the publisher. That money could then be used for the development of a different title.

@madame-c said in Need Microtransactions:

I'm going to venture a guess (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that the money earned through MTX goes into the pocket of the publisher and not the developer.

If the developer proposes to make a game for some amount of money, then they are granted that amount of money to cover costs of development - including the wages of the workers. Any profit thereafter belongs to the publisher. Maybe the developers would get a percentage of the MTX, I don't know for sure (maybe that depends on the contract between the developer and publisher). But people make it sound as though the developers need the money from MTX to get paid, when instead they earn a salary that is paid from funds that are granted in advance of development.

In the case of an indie title, or a free-to-play game, MTX money may go entirely to the developer. However, for a AAA title, I'm willing to bet the money from MTX goes to the publisher. That money could then be used for the development of a different title.

Rare is owned by M$ which pays Rare... its all the same where the money goes. How much revenue the studio generates may factor into bonuses. If they don't continue to generate money with sea of thieves or develop something else they can charge $60 for eventually they'll be in the red for M$... studios have to continue to generate money to usually... you know justify paying them.

And DLC revenue in the case of an indie/AAA game of a 3rd party developer probably depends on the contract with the publisher if they have one... lots of indie games have publishers.

I'd be fine with micro transactions for pets and cosmetics that are solely for micro transactions but I prefer the time limited stuff being exclusive to that dlc/event they just need to make sure there's a lot for both

@savagetwinky
First, I would ask was Elite Dangerous charged AAA price on release? Second, a season pass from my perspective is quite different. That isn't a microtransaction, but one upfront charge for expansion style DLC. Borderlands had a season pass as well, how they did DLC is good example of what I think DLC should strive to be,

well... what else do you want them to sell us for next year? Or the year after if they continue to support this game's as a service? Those $60 only go so far to pay for a yearly salary.

Why can Borderlands create new content off a AAA price, and SoT can't? I mean ARK did it along with many other Multiplayer games. A lot of these games strived on replay ability, which in turn kept sales at a constant. There is more than one way to sustain a game.

@nabberwar said in Need Microtransactions:

@savagetwinky
First, I would ask was Elite Dangerous charged AAA price on release? Second, a season pass from my perspective is quite different. That isn't a microtransaction, but one upfront charge for expansion style DLC. Borderlands had a season pass as well, how they did DLC is good example of what I think DLC should strive to be,

well... what else do you want them to sell us for next year? Or the year after if they continue to support this game's as a service? Those $60 only go so far to pay for a yearly salary.

Why can Borderlands create new content off a AAA price, and SoT can't? I mean ARK did it along with many other Multiplayer games. A lot of these games strived on replay ability, which in turn kept sales at a constant. There is more than one way to sustain a game.

What you consider DLC is said to be free. Elite was "AAA" and the horizons was also at least $50 on release...

They also are doing the Elite model and not the Borderlands model... where they release Borderlands 2 for $60 + optional $$ season pass/dlc... then borderlands prequal for $60 + $$ season pass/optional dlc... Like elite, SoT is going to be actively developed moving forward... We can optionally pay for $$ season pass / dlc... or the presumption those are free to keep the community together so there is a mtx store with pets/cosmetics that add to the game without splitting the players.

@callmebackdraft What about those who lost their characters to false reports or for example the recent data shift which corrupted the data of a number of players, including pirate legends (who might I add have to redo the grind for legend)?

Personally I believe the Microtransaction shop should follow the time-exclusive period they had for the Huntress figurehead.
It was originally given out about 60 days ago and was made purchasable to all with the recent update.
Similarly, I believe event items should have about a 60-90 day exclusivity. Pre-Order items I believe should remain exclusive to those who had bought them.

Aside from pets, I could see a possible "Character Re-Roll/ReDesign" option in the shop that would have a cool-down timer of about a month. I could also see some wacky items, like a pun-based item set (E.X. The Sword Fish Sword).

@callmebackdraft My friend who has had his character wiped several times due to false reports and then the data shift the other day did try a support ticket and contacting them. He even provided proof of his items with screenshots and they said he could be pretending to be himself, that it would be unfair to others if he got his progress restored, and that he should earn the stuff instead (including event items, even though he already had earned them once). He has played since the Beta and has done every event along side me and so far has had to restart his progress almost six times now.

So no, asides from on paper, it isn't plain and simple.

@callmebackdraft The data shift was apparently from having the character data stored on the player's hard drive to being linked to the account. Not sure why others haven't mentioned it here, but there was some discussions in some of the clubs over on xbox. The wipes varied for the reason, but the first wipe was from a report, second from an accidental data clear on his xbox, third and fourth were reports, fifth was his niece who reset his character, sixth was the data corruption of his character save over the weekend that he received an apology email for.

Also the "plain and simple" thing I was referring to you saying the support ticket route was such.

@enf0rcer said in Need Microtransactions:

@xthemegalodon I'm seriously can't belive that someone other then a dev is actually arguing FOR MTX. We have already witnessed the effects of putting MTXs in games have just read up on EA. Spoliers it's not good. While i do agree that games need to expand monitization in order to keep developing content their a buiness after all, The way in such a game is monitize directly impacts on the quality of the game and who it caters to. Frankly having people pay real money to not play the game is absurd and all it does is incentive devs to make games a long and boring grind just to get players to pay money not to play content simply makes for a bad game period. If you don't have time to play a game then we need to discuss ways of incentivsing companies to make shorter more enjoyable ones. This game was made a Grind fest Cause they wanted to add MTX. Now can MTX be implemented in a positive way that a whole topic for disscusion which we already had a Mega Tread about and so far no one has been able to make an effective argument on the positives of MTX on qualty of content. The only thing that MTX has made positive is the idea that there should be no walls in the community having players seperated by DLC or seasonpasses of even hardware. That came about from the disscussions around MTX. This issue is one that effects the industry as a whole and ther by effects all gamers and all games. If we allow somthing close to Pay-2-Win it will turn into a slippery slope that will impact not just this game but all games that come after it. Now Rare has offered a unique model for MTXs that is untested. It would allow player to purches ingame assets that are actual objects which can be interacted with every player. Weather this system would work or what the possible consequences to the gameplay it will have is unknown. So far Rare ablity to implement such concepts into the game have been questionable at best. I would think they should get everything in their game inorder before attempting such a critical feet.

That's a fine wall of text you have there. Care to distill it into something more readable? All I got is a rather silly reaction towards Microtransactions.

Implementing the ability to buy Gold in-game I wouldn't mind, since all Gold does is accelerate your progress towards buying cosmetics. Reputation and Bilge-Rat Doubloons you would still need to earn the traditional way.

Micro transactions would make me quit the game. I don’t want a game like everyone else has. I like the set up for now. I do think you need to do more for us pirate legends other than what we have now.

@enf0rcer said in Need Microtransactions:

@blam320 said in Need Microtransactions:

@enf0rcer said in Need Microtransactions:

@xthemegalodon I'm seriously can't belive that someone other then a dev is actually arguing FOR MTX. We have already witnessed the effects of putting MTXs in games have just read up on EA. Spoliers it's not good. While i do agree that games need to expand monitization in order to keep developing content their a buiness after all, The way in such a game is monitize directly impacts on the quality of the game and who it caters to. Frankly having people pay real money to not play the game is absurd and all it does is incentive devs to make games a long and boring grind just to get players to pay money not to play content simply makes for a bad game period. If you don't have time to play a game then we need to discuss ways of incentivsing companies to make shorter more enjoyable ones. This game was made a Grind fest Cause they wanted to add MTX. Now can MTX be implemented in a positive way that a whole topic for disscusion which we already had a Mega Tread about and so far no one has been able to make an effective argument on the positives of MTX on qualty of content. The only thing that MTX has made positive is the idea that there should be no walls in the community having players seperated by DLC or seasonpasses of even hardware. That came about from the disscussions around MTX. This issue is one that effects the industry as a whole and ther by effects all gamers and all games. If we allow somthing close to Pay-2-Win it will turn into a slippery slope that will impact not just this game but all games that come after it. Now Rare has offered a unique model for MTXs that is untested. It would allow player to purches ingame assets that are actual objects which can be interacted with every player. Weather this system would work or what the possible consequences to the gameplay it will have is unknown. So far Rare ablity to implement such concepts into the game have been questionable at best. I would think they should get everything in their game inorder before attempting such a critical feet.

That's a fine wall of text you have there. Care to distill it into something more readable? All I got is a rather silly reaction towards Microtransactions.

Implementing the ability to buy Gold in-game I wouldn't mind, since all Gold does is accelerate your progress towards buying cosmetics. Reputation and Bilge-Rat Doubloons you would still need to earn the traditional way.

Sorry here is the TL'DR version for you.

MTX's are bad for games cause they incetive developer to make long boring games so they can sell you fun at the expense of those who want to play the game for a short time.

There are an abundance of examples as evidence to back it up.

So far no one has shown any evidence to prove otherwise but I'm willing to hear the case be made.

Another solution needs to be found.

People will already argue that Sea of Thieves is a long, boring game. So that's a moot point. I think you're really afraid of paid DLC, like having to buy a future expansion or access to a specific part of play, which Rare has already confirmed will never come to the game.

Let's come up with some examples of game with solely cosmetic-driven microtransactions.

Team Fortress 2 and DOTA 2 come to mind. You can buy all the cosmetics from the official stores, or from the community market. Nothing about the gameplay is locked behind paywalls (unless you count the exclusive cosmetics available in Mann vs Machine, for instance, which require you buy a pass). Actually, they're bad examples, because both have actual gameplay content (weapons and heroes) behind paywalls, that can't be easily unlocked via grinding (which Sea of Thieves allows).

Overwatch sells you the game for full price, and guarantees all future major content for free. You can earn the cosmetics for free by playing the game - just as Sea of Thieves does - or you can spend some cash to accelerate your acquisition of cosmetic items; no gameplay elements whatsoever are locked behind a paywall after the initial purchase.

I can go on. It really seems like you're fresh from EA or Activision, which do actively cut full games into chunks they'll then sell at AAA price each, while artificially inflating the amount of game-time in each bite-sized chunk.