Bunny hopping

@pomalotacusmk3 said in Bunny hopping:

Lol. So 86% of SoT players chose to play hanicapped, even though Rare said 'even playing field'. The 14% on PC made the smart decision to not play handicapped. But please dont separate us because there's not enough of us and it'll kill the game...Who really made the smart choice I wonder?
Such a PC MR comment.

I never said it would kill anything to separate the two. I simply stated that the arguments coming from the people that are begging for crossplay to be removed make little to no sense... Who made the smart choice? Well, you chose to have less maneuverability in your gameplay, and then a number of you come here and whine about not being able to move the same way. Just because the Xbox side of this community is larger doesn't mean you made a better choice.

I have seen a million bad metaphors to describe this...but I will go with this one:

You wore high-heels to a track meet and are angry all the guys wearing running shoes won the race.

@aod-fluid Again, console players did not choose to play at a disadvantage, they are being forced to play at a disadvantage when they come across a PC player. This is where your PC M/R ideology shines through, you choose to simply dump on the system and its users just because you prefer a PC.

People paid money for this game, and they should be able to have a level playing field.

@archangel-timmy Cross play was confirmed in 2017, long before the release of the game. It wasn't like it was kept a secret and then sprung on you at launch after you dumped money into it. Any enlightened consumer would've known.

So yes. You chose this.

@eddatfc Just because it was announced in 2017 that it would be cross-play, doesn't mean it was announced it would be implemented in an unbalanced way. Regardless of that, nobody (maybe a couple did) outright saw SoT and made the choice between Console/PC. Their choice was made long before, so the argument of they chose wrong is irrelevant and completely PC M/R BS.

You are all ignoring the point, that there is an imbalance and that it needs to be addressed. And by that, I mean in a way that affects both sides.

@archangel-timmy said in Bunny hopping:

@aod-fluid Again, console players did not choose to play at a disadvantage, they are being forced to play at a disadvantage when they come across a PC player. This is where your PC M/R ideology shines through, you choose to simply dump on the system and its users just because you prefer a PC.

People paid money for this game, and they should be able to have a level playing field.

I don't have a PCMR mentality... I have said numerous times in this very thread that the real difference between the two, aside from hardware differences and the fact that you cannot turn as fast is that the typical console player might play for a few hours a week...while the typical PC player plays for a few hours a day.

It is literally a case of not having any developed muscle memory and being limited to the turn speeds provided by your stick. Both of those are choices you made...and not me saying "PC players are better!" it is simply the way it works out.

All it takes to become a pirate legend is time. Are you a pirate legend yet? If so, what level Athena are you? I can pretty easily show you the difference based on your answer to those questions.

@archangel-timmy Here is the difference, the real difference. I am a typical PC player... you look to be in-line with the typical console player as far as time goes. This is my "stuff" compared to your "stuff".

https://elderfuthark.com/cheeves.png

@archangel-timmy Who said you chose "wrong?"

Not I. I simply said you made a choice. The second you decided to drop hundreds of dollars on a console, you made a choice to be limited by that console's abilities and peripherals, as well as the choices made by its parent company (in this case, Microsoft) on whether they support additional peripherals or not.

That was your choice when you bought your XBOX. Just like last year it was my choice to upgrade my PC hardware over buying a console. And when I made that choice, I made the choice of having decent/amazing console games getting bad ports to PC, or not being available on PC at all. That was my choice.

Do you finally get it, or would you like to argue semantics more?

@vulgrim1911 Wauw, you are really terrified that Rare might remove your only way of being able to fight other players huh?
Guess your only way to fight is to jump around like a rabbit on speed.

Anyway, I hope they do remove the ability to bunny hop, it shouldn't be a thing ever. Everyone jumping around like maniacs shooting guns is just ridiculous.

@squaz05 And Unreal Tournament... But both those games are fast paced FPS shooters, this is not.
I'd also say in the Tribes series, but you get Jetpacks there so =P

@electricape said in Bunny hopping:

@eddatfc
& now all we want is a choice of whether or not we want to continue playing with pc players?

Too bad. That's not your choice and it never will be your choice. Rare has made their decision and they are sticking to it. You can choose either to deal with the ill-conceived perception that Rare is out to get you and that PC players have such an unfair advantage over you that there is no way you can ever win a game that has no end game or clear definition of winning unlike a first person shooter, or you can simply leave and take your entitlement issues with you.

It's not Rare's responsibility to kowtow to your petty demands.

Shout out to @Danish-Crusader for bringing up Tribes, by the way. Great game and such a shame how far that series fell. Bunny hopping wasn't an issue there because as you mentioned...jet packs. But skiing was, and people whined so hard about it.

@danish-crusader said in Bunny hopping:

@squaz05 And Unreal Tournament... But both those games are fast paced FPS shooters, this is not.
I'd also say in the Tribes series, but you get Jetpacks there so =P

In every Quake franchise title all the way up to the current in-development title Quake Champions this was referred to as "strafe jumping". You would jump and strafe left or right to build up speed. This was added in Quake by accident as far as I know, and has been implemented as a feature ever since in every game they release under the Quake name.

In the Counterstrike series (where 'bhopping' as a term originated) you would jump, release forward and continue jumping and turning to build speed and maintain momentum.

In Unreal Tournament it was somewhat useless, but you would get a very slight speed increase by jumping repeatedly. You could get around faster teleporting or by dodging.

In Tribes, Tribes 2, and Tribes: Ascend (I do not count the other tribes game that had grappling hooks) it was only effective down a long slope, and was referred to as "skiing".

In Sea of Thieves where it serves no real purpose it is simply referred to as stupid.

@aod-fluid Everything you are posting is simply about how PC is better, how PC players are real gamers. It is PC M/R garbage because you are ignoring legitimate complaints and telling people they should have bought a PC.

You keep bringing up this choice argument, which is irrelevant. The game is marketed as cross-platform, and it should be a level playing ground, plain and simple. There should be as few drawbacks to either system as possible in regards to play, and they are close, but not quite there.

Time is not the only factor when it comes to "skill", and playing for 30 years doesn't make you a better gamer. Being PL and sinking more time doesn't make you better, that can be seen by all of the videos and comments about how PL isn't the title people were hoping it would be as it only shows you play a lot.

There isn't anything to be done about various level of innate skill in this game, but what they can do is level the disparity between the systems which causes a gap in perceived skill.

@EddaTFC Again, the system of choice is irrelevant as the game should be as level as possibly, and it isn't. No "enlightened" consumer would expect to join a game marketed this way to be as unbalanced as it is.

You act as if it is console players only who have brought this up, but there are PC players that have come here and acknowledged the gap and have suggested tweaks as well. These are real issues that need real attention.

@archangel-timmy said in Bunny hopping:

@EddaTFC Again, the system of choice is irrelevant as the game should be as level as possibly, and it isn't. No "enlightened" consumer would expect to join a game marketed this way to be as unbalanced as it is.

You act as if it is console players only who have brought this up, but there are PC players that have come here and acknowledged the gap and have suggested tweaks as well. These are real issues that need real attention.

The only suggestions I've seen are:

• Remove crossplay.
• Nerf M/KB.

Neither of those are acceptable, so how about you guys come up with something better instead repeating the same garbage in multiple threads?

@archangel-timmy said in Bunny hopping:

@aod-fluid Everything you are posting is simply about how PC is better, how PC players are real gamers. It is PC M/R garbage because you are ignoring legitimate complaints and telling people they should have bought a PC.

You read into this the way you want to read into it...but you are wrong. This is more about the fact that typically console players, like mobile players are literally casual gamers. That coupled with the disadvantage of the controller does not make this an argument that any of you can win. You chose the console as your gaming platform, and you chose to play what was ALWAYS said to be a major crossplay title...then wanted to complain about it after the fact. It all goes back to decision-making.

You keep bringing up this choice argument, which is irrelevant. The game is marketed as cross-platform, and it should be a level playing ground, plain and simple. There should be as few drawbacks to either system as possible in regards to play, and they are close, but not quite there.

The playing field is identical. The issue is that most of you put in less time, are less experienced, and have hindrances from the control scheme that you have to use. There are several console players that have said how you could improve your game experience in this thread. Try listening to them... Talk less. Listen more.

Time is not the only factor when it comes to "skill", and playing for 30 years doesn't make you a better gamer. Being PL and sinking more time doesn't make you better, that can be seen by all of the videos and comments about how PL isn't the title people were hoping it would be as it only shows you play a lot.

Sorry man, but developing muscle memory is where the difference is, and that comes with time and practice. You cannot develop muscle memory on a controller. It is not possible.

As for your comment on PL, that depends on the pirate legend. The entire point of what I wrote was because all you need to get PL is time, and now you don't even need that with dumb commendation purchases. The amount of time required has been cut down by about 4 times.

I can't tell you when the last time we lost a ship was, and we PvP all the time. Still though, that is completely unrelated to what I posted because the entire point of it was to gauge the amount of time you put into the game versus a PC player.

There isn't anything to be done about various level of innate skill in this game, but what they can do is level the disparity between the systems which causes a gap in perceived skill.

You weren't writing that to me, but I have to respond to it because it is the same point I have already brought up with you. I am sorry, but the "perceived" skill gap that you are talking about is not "perceived". It is real, because you cannot develop the skill that we can on a PC. There is no way to "bridge" that gap without breaking the way gaming works on the PC.

Steve Kamb  /  Jul 17, 2014

Is Muscle Memory a Real Thing? | Nerd Fitness

I slid into home on a close play. It was a few weeks back during a recreational kickball game, and because I essentially slid with 100% effort (while wearing shorts and sneakers) trying to avoid getting pegged with the ball, I scraped up my legs, arm, stomach, and hand. All of my teammates starting...

Stop complaining about it, and at some point try switching over to a PC for at least part of your gaming. You cannot ask developers and gamers to change their habits because you refuse to change yours.

Nothing I say has anything to do with the "PCMR" bunk you keep bringing up. It is literally the truth being told by a person with way more experience than you on both platforms.

@ve111a said in Bunny hopping:

@squaz05 said in Bunny hopping:

@ve111a to be fair, bunny hopping in Quake had a gameplay purpose.

In SoT, bunny hopping adds nothing, (no, you are not harder to hit... specially with your Morbidly Obese character)

Quake is the exception because the devs made it with speed boosts and characters that are meant for it.

@vulgrim1911 said in Bunny hopping:

@ve111a said in Bunny hopping:

I see bunny hopping as a sign of weakness and is disgusting. It shows the calibur of your pirate if you need to resort to bunny hopping that just speaks to you as a player and your inability to play well... I've hated bunny hopping and drop shotting in fps since FPS was a thing..... I want a jump limiter or something it just sucks because I use it non pvp trying to get around islands.

You hate bunnyhoppers because isntead of learning to aim you chose to COMPLAIN.
I have way more fun landing shots on people who know their movements than on people who choose to stand still because "REAL PIRATES DONT JUMP LOL!"

GET
A
GRIP

lol I have no problem killing bunnybabies I just laugh at them for having to use a tactic that is so cheesy. Same sort of people that use macros for shooting both guns at once lol. Can't win through skill so resort to other means.

Quake had a single character. Strafe jumping (not bunny hopping) was added to the game by accident...and it became such an important and popular mechanic that they decided to keep it and added it to future titles released under the Quake moniker.

Map jump to rb, become a bunny,

This tactic is not only available to PC players. And is easier to counter if your playing more defensively and picking positions where they'll have to bunny hop their way to you.

@eddatfc said in Bunny hopping:

@archangel-timmy said in Bunny hopping:

@EddaTFC Again, the system of choice is irrelevant as the game should be as level as possibly, and it isn't. No "enlightened" consumer would expect to join a game marketed this way to be as unbalanced as it is.

You act as if it is console players only who have brought this up, but there are PC players that have come here and acknowledged the gap and have suggested tweaks as well. These are real issues that need real attention.

The only suggestions I've seen are:

• Remove crossplay.
• Nerf M/KB.

Neither of those are acceptable, so how about you guys come up with something better instead repeating the same garbage in multiple threads?

Neither of those have been my suggestions, and the multiple threads are from multiple people who have noticed the disparity and want something done about it. Albeit the wrong solutions, they are still bringing up valid concerns.

@aod-fluid

You read into this the way you want to read into it...but you are wrong. This is more about the fact that typically console players, like mobile players are literally casual gamers. That coupled with the disadvantage of the controller does not make this an argument that any of you can win. You chose the console as your gaming platform, and you chose to play what was ALWAYS said to be a major crossplay title...then wanted to complain about it after the fact. It all goes back to decision-making.

Because you and a few others play a lot on PC does not imply other platforms are for "casual gamers". PC has been around for a lot longer, but that doesn't make them the only example of a true elite gamer, and to imply such is the mentality of the PC M/R. And again, the argument about who picked what platform is irrelevant because as you say, "the game was always said to be cross-platform", and as such should have had a level playing field from the start, which it does not. You keep bringing up how superior the PC is compared to the Xbox, then deny the innate imbalance that brings, which is just insane.

The playing field is identical. The issue is that most of you put in less time, are less experienced, and have hindrances from the control scheme that you have to use. There are several console players that have said how you could improve your game experience in this thread. Try listening to them... Talk less. Listen more.
It isn't, if it were, there wouldn't be the countless posts about it.

It is not identical, which is the problem. There are countless posts in regards to how they are not identical but you choose to ignore them.

Sorry man, but developing muscle memory is where the difference is, and that comes with time and practice. You cannot develop muscle memory on a controller. It is not possible.

No one denied muscle memory or time and practice improve skill, I simply stated that is not the only factor. To say you cannot develop muscle memory on a controller is a blatantly false as it works the same way as anything else, it is just a different interface.

As for your comment on PL, that depends on the pirate legend. The entire point of what I wrote was because all you need to get PL is time, and now you don't even need that with dumb commendation purchases. The amount of time required has been cut down by about 4 times.

Pirate Legend hasn't held any substantial meaning other than "that person plays a lot" since after the first 6-8 weeks after the game launched, long before people were able to buy their way into it.

I can't tell you when the last time we lost a ship was, and we PvP all the time. Still though, that is completely unrelated to what I posted because the entire point of it was to gauge the amount of time you put into the game versus a PC player.

Congrats, you are using your own skill and the perceived skill to your advantage.

You weren't writing that to me, but I have to respond to it because it is the same point I have already brought up with you. I am sorry, but the "perceived" skill gap that you are talking about is not "perceived". It is real, because you cannot develop the skill that we can on a PC. There is no way to "bridge" that gap without breaking the way gaming works on the PC.

You are lumping both skill sets into one. You can have a different level of skill on the M/Kb, and a different level on the Controller. That is your skill level, some of it innate and some of it through practice. However, the difference between the two interfaces and the advantage one has over the other is the percieved skill difference. There are ways to bridge that gap, but you choose to focus on people wanting to do away with cross-play or force PC to utilize a controller or vice-versa.

Stop complaining about it, and at some point try switching over to a PC for at least part of your gaming. You cannot ask developers and gamers to change their habits because you refuse to change yours.

I used to game on a PC, but tastes change. I spent a large amount of my youth on PC and picked up consoles on the side for fun, but things change. You have your preferred method now and I have mine, but if we have to play together it needs to be on a more even playing field.

Nothing I say has anything to do with the "PCMR" bunk you keep bringing up. It is literally the truth being told by a person with way more experience than you on both platforms.

It is literally your opinion, and nothing else other than an excessive amount of playtime that does not in itself equate to skill level.

@archangel-timmy You suffer from selective reading and massive problems with reading comprehension. There is no reason to communicate with you on this topic because you twist everything into something that it is not.

Keep posting about this though. I am sure they will even the playing field some day.

Also, let me know how your muscle memory develops in time as you hold your stick to the right or left and wait for your character to turn to where you want it... then let me know later when you realize that you cannot employ muscle memory while using a controller.

@aod-fluid

@archangel-timmy You suffer from selective reading and massive problems with reading comprehension. There is no reason to communicate with you on this topic because you twist everything into something that it is not.

I have read and responded in kind to each of your points, and you choose to ignore the larger issue and default to the same argument that is basically a wordier "PC is better", "Git Gud". You acknowledge the difference between the two and ignore that it is a problem. Seems like one of us is suffering from something, but it is you and it is delusion.

Please, do take your leave as you are contributing nothing but the same baseless arguments to avoid fair play.

Keep posting about this though. I am sure they will even the playing field some day.

I will continue to work towards an even playing field, as will the countless others on either system to recognize the issue and want to work towards a solution rather than ignore it.

Also, let me know how your muscle memory develops in time as you hold your stick to the right or left and wait for your character to turn to where you want it... then let me know later when you realize that you cannot employ muscle memory while using a controller.

Muscle memory extends beyond flicking wrist from side to side and accurately hitting the same position. It is a consistent movement without conscious thought and is not limited to your mouse and keyboard. I know where a quick full throw of the joystick will land me and can make quick adjustments without a second thought, just because a mouse can do it in a fraction of the time and has more range doesn't make it any less of a muscle memory.

I personally think they should do away with the bunny hopping. I’ve heard some player say that SOT is supposed to be realistic when it comes to ship to ship combat, weapons, as well as PVP. Jumping around is not realistic. I understand straffing. But not bunny hopping around. I’ve played other PvP games that straffing is the main tactic used in PVP and it is still very effective if used correctly.