Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.

@touchdown1504 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@savagetwinky said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:>
His ideas are not necessarily bad either! If he compared it to the misery of a job...then perhaps that is how it feels, and how it feels to him is his business, not yours to tell him how it is supposed to feel!

I'm not saying how he should feel. But as a form of entertainment it's failing for him. Demanding changes that will effect the rest of us so he can fail less miserable isn't a good idea. If he doesn't enjoy the game because it feels like work to him its not really a game for him.

Not an issue. #2 there should be value (Experience points) on "tasks" such as killing a skeleton, Kraken defeat, etc. Your opinion is noted, the majority (in this thread) feels different...yay democracy!

#2 is actually pretty important. Again it plays a key role in how players do anything in this game. By not rewarding players for a task and just demanding they bring loot to a vender... and that's it. That's all that is rewarded in a game. It creates a much more unique incentive system.

Without a real progression system that gates players from particular areas or abilities, the tasks and progression are meaningless. It's absolutely necessary for more emergent adventures, otherwise the game is just a bunch of series of tasks to complete for no particular reason.

Also at rank 40 completing voyages is difficult because of the amount of points you might have to hit. There is so much that can get in the way that not having that reinforcement to slog through to the end is... liberating.

Anyhow, as I mentioned before. I am not here to argue, nor will I.

You are arguing. And its basically the only idea in this thread, to essentially break the game. And it's worth addressing new ideas. People come into the thread to contribute why it will work, we can continue to contribute why it won't.

@touchdown1504 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@angrycoconut16 The problem with this conversation is there is a select few...regardless of what is said will automatically defend against the thought or idea.

That's because regardless of what is said... its always the same idea. And we did agree to increasing the rewards at the end of a VC in the form of better loot... much like Athena's is now.

We are all for adding more ways to get loot and increasing value of that loot in different ways, and potentially make it easier for *cough* bad players *cough* to finish the grind... and trying to minimize the change to value or motivations to doing PvE over PvP.

But you all are just as stubborn, you can't handle losing value regardless of how much of the game is designed to compensate for that loss.

Even if it was 1 mission that took 3 hours and you were instantly at PL at the end of it... if you didn't finish your first attempt due to another player... you'd consider that a waste of time. Even though it would be impossible not to complete eventually. Which is the case even now its just that mission is 30 mins instead of 3 hours, and you can do 3 hours of missions and stop at an outpost as necessary to save your progress, and should take a few months of modest play time to get to PL... its impossible for you to not get there if you enjoy the game.

Trying to protect players from from feeling deflated is exactly what causes PvP to be a meat grinder. No stakes to lose, no trepidation, just constant pew pew pew. While rewarding PvE players hunkering down to burn through to PL is not what this game needs. Its not what this game was designed for, there is very little value in progression.

@touchdown1504 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

A simple timing change.

Its not a timing change. You don't even understand your own idea.

Stubborn about what? Because I won't change my mind? That is what your goal here is...to change people's minds? Then we are in totally two different conversations. I was under the impression we were discussing ideas, not actively trying to sway opinions

It's both, people that read this can get an idea of both sides. But complaining about us disliking the 50 variations of the same idea... while also disregarding anything that can help over the long term to compensate for a night of loss... is priceless.

This has nothing to do with what people can or can not "handle". There you go again with the chest thumping, git gud, bad a*s behind the keyboard b******t.

Actually most my arguments have come from whether or not this makes sense based on the context of the rest of the game. Yours sort of disregard the rest of the game or anything that would allow players to lose their rep for the night and still be entertained.

So, why do you bother? I didn't say anything about "increasing awards" at the end of VC or anything else.

Because everyone can read this... again notice the public forum your in.

I am not looking to change anyone's mind, I am not looking to sway opinions, I am simply laying my thoughts on the table. If you can't handle that, kindly don't bother talking with me.

But I am. When people come in here because they lost some loot and want it changed, they might read the evolving ideas of the two groups and putting the loss into a bit of context... and understand maybe it's ok to lose some rep and just continue on the next night. Maybe the devs see this and understand that even though some players are frustrated, there is value in keeping it this way, since the same 3-4 people have been arguing both cases, it's not a 100% backed idea like better rewards for higher level.

And if you weren't you wouldn't be trying to continue to make counter arguments.

@touchdown1504 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@savagetwinky It IS a timing change. And that is where I stopped reading. Go troll someone else Twinky.

If it were a timing change then it would only change time. Does it only change timing? No...

@touchdown1504 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

I said move the timing of the rewards that is it...there is nothing else that can be extropolated from..."Change the timing of when reputation is rewarded to Voyage Complete" Do you understand now...or are you mixing what I said with someone else ?

I mean, if you want to talk about ideas, and only ideas, this is one of the worst ideas in this sad thread of bad ideas.

You want to move all reputation awards to Voyage Complete... thereby:

1. Giving players no alternative but to play long sessions to finish an entire voyage, which can still be interrupted by other players to the point of running out of time and being unable to finish in a particular session, and thus walk away with nothing. Nevermind that this could occur without any other player interruption anyhow.. not everyone has the time to finish an entire voyage in a single session.

2. Removing entirely the primary value of stolen loot (to be absolutely clear here, I'm referring to the rep), and thus absolutely butchering PvP.

No. Just, no.

@lotrmith But it's only timing. Even though the rep isn't awarded now based on time spent/intervals... but its only timing that is changed.

Edit: I wonder if timing is the wrong word. Either way loot = rep vs task = rep. It's a clear value change from one to the other.

@touchdown1504 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@lotrmith Quit twisting it! LOL

If it is awarded on VC that is before you turn in. basically what you are saying is people are not completing voyages to begin with? That is their choice. I do agree, it takes time, and part of the issue is time invested. As it stands now you can turn in early, which many do (myself among them) and nothing changes with the idea I had. You can still do that! So yes, but Yes...best idea ever! PvP is pointless as it is now.

Insulting the entire thread? Sad thread of ideas? yet you have been here since page one? L**O...you and a couple others make quite the little team of trolls and passive aggressive little keyboard warriors...I am done with you buddy, have a great life!

If pvp is pointless why are you advocating for the rep to be turned in on VC so it cannot be stolen? Maybe your oblivious to the point

@touchdown1504 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@savagetwinky PvP is pointless (as I have mentioned countless times, you love seeing me repeat)

Just stating as such doesn't mean your right... while it may be a subjective perspective, it is not a objective reality.

If that's how your going to look at it... well the rep grind is pointless. Why do you care?

Stealing other peoples loot = rep. The same reason people do voyages. And the game is presenting them with easy loot, but they have to defend it.

Why don't you just go play SoT?

Working, as much as I want to play SoT while my computer churns out an entire embedded Linux distribution... it takes nearly 100% of my 16 cores and turns it into a slide show. So I come here while it builds, then test it, then make some changes, then build it...

@touchdown1504 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@lotrmith Quit twisting it! LOL

If it is awarded on VC that is before you turn in. basically what you are saying is people are not completing voyages to begin with? That is their choice. I do agree, it takes time, and part of the issue is time invested. As it stands now you can turn in early, which many do (myself among them) and nothing changes with the idea I had. You can still do that! So yes, but Yes...best idea ever! PvP is pointless as it is now.

Insulting the entire thread? Sad thread of ideas? yet you have been here since page one? L**O...you and a couple others make quite the little team of trolls and passive aggressive little keyboard warriors...I am done with you buddy, have a great life!

If you are awarded the rep on "Voyage Complete", as per your idea, without that being part of any bonus rep, as per your idea, then turning in early would not provide any rep, because as per your idea you've removed the rep from the item turnins and awarded it instead on "Voyage Complete".

@touchdown1504 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@lotrmith Nope. Twisting it again! You see, as I mentioned before, a few times, but because part of me likes you, like the way someone does a starving stray animal, you may remember....If a PVP crew takes it, and turns it in, they get the rep. Here let me make it easier....

NOTHING CHANGES except Reputation is awarded on Voyage Complete. SOOOOO...whatever is still on the boat awards its rep when the VC screen hits. Now, don't argue it...because I am not changing my mind, and I am not explaining it to you again. Besides, you already knew this...just more playing. I get it...I asked the mods to shut the thread anyhow.

Being awarded rep on turn in and being awarded rep on voyage complete are two different things. It's obvious you don't understand your own idea.

@savagetwinky
You take thinkgs waaaaaay too literally.
So much so I'm afraid for your safety.

When someone shouts, "Heads up!!" do you rip off your own head and throw it into the air?

I used the job related analogy, not because this game is a job (i mean WOW), but because the trucker is putting forth effort throughout the trip. I think that trucker, even though he didn't make the entire trip, should get what his effort was worth.

If that can be translated into the game in just the right way; that would.....wait....what am i doing? You've stopped reading by now for sure and have already started typing about something that I haven't really said...cuz you don't care anyway.

Bye Bye.

@lil-fokker
It's not about literal interpretation it's about perspective. Your interpreting your effort like the trucker's, he should be paid for a delivery of goods with something of value. Which he is, he is asked to bring a delivery to a location where another trucker will haul it the rest of the way.

Great how does that effect a video games rules? It doesn't. The presumption being video games are supposed to pay you for your time... the deliver your speaking of is not a form of entertainment. It's work. If this bit of entertainment is using rep/gold to make PvP an engaging activity than... how does that relate to the trucker in any way.

It's an incredibly stupid comparison as to why games should reward your time. Some games are built this way and have a feedback loop that works on the progression. I mean by your perspective it would be better to give the players gold for doing tasks... that way your getting 'paid' for your time.

@touchdown1504 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@angrycoconut16 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@mintprizma I like the incentive of that, but the trouble with commendations is they are a one time thing... we would like something a bit more consistent. I couldn't care less if they remove commendations altogether personally, I'd much rather have a system in place which rewards rep consistently for instance, for killing the kraken, or killing skeleton captains, than just an achievement based one-time rep reward.

Rep for "doing" as we called it before. for being active in the world. So many possibilities. The obvious, Defeat the Kraken, Kill Skeletons, Solve riddles, defeat another crew, defeat the skull fort boss, etc. Then the not so obvious, exploration, collections, small xp for things like repairing the boat, bailing water...really small, but some none the less. Encourages crew work. The commendations are...bleh...they give almost nothing, are almost all repeats of what the player has already done. XP for the doing, change the timing to VC screen, logged out bonus...workable system.

Eating a banana. Firing a cannonball. The participation trophies could be endless, really.

@lotrmith said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@touchdown1504 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@angrycoconut16 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@mintprizma I like the incentive of that, but the trouble with commendations is they are a one time thing... we would like something a bit more consistent. I couldn't care less if they remove commendations altogether personally, I'd much rather have a system in place which rewards rep consistently for instance, for killing the kraken, or killing skeleton captains, than just an achievement based one-time rep reward.

Rep for "doing" as we called it before. for being active in the world. So many possibilities. The obvious, Defeat the Kraken, Kill Skeletons, Solve riddles, defeat another crew, defeat the skull fort boss, etc. Then the not so obvious, exploration, collections, small xp for things like repairing the boat, bailing water...really small, but some none the less. Encourages crew work. The commendations are...bleh...they give almost nothing, are almost all repeats of what the player has already done. XP for the doing, change the timing to VC screen, logged out bonus...workable system.

Eating a banana. Firing a cannonball. The participation trophies could be endless, really.

apparently loot isn't an incentive because it can be stolen?

@savagetwinky said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@lotrmith said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@touchdown1504 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@angrycoconut16 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@mintprizma I like the incentive of that, but the trouble with commendations is they are a one time thing... we would like something a bit more consistent. I couldn't care less if they remove commendations altogether personally, I'd much rather have a system in place which rewards rep consistently for instance, for killing the kraken, or killing skeleton captains, than just an achievement based one-time rep reward.

Rep for "doing" as we called it before. for being active in the world. So many possibilities. The obvious, Defeat the Kraken, Kill Skeletons, Solve riddles, defeat another crew, defeat the skull fort boss, etc. Then the not so obvious, exploration, collections, small xp for things like repairing the boat, bailing water...really small, but some none the less. Encourages crew work. The commendations are...bleh...they give almost nothing, are almost all repeats of what the player has already done. XP for the doing, change the timing to VC screen, logged out bonus...workable system.

Eating a banana. Firing a cannonball. The participation trophies could be endless, really.

apparently loot isn't an incentive because it can be stolen?

Personally I'd like to anchor-turn my way to Pirate Legend, as long as we're thinking so far out of the box.

@lotrmith said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@savagetwinky said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@lotrmith said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@touchdown1504 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@angrycoconut16 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@mintprizma I like the incentive of that, but the trouble with commendations is they are a one time thing... we would like something a bit more consistent. I couldn't care less if they remove commendations altogether personally, I'd much rather have a system in place which rewards rep consistently for instance, for killing the kraken, or killing skeleton captains, than just an achievement based one-time rep reward.

Rep for "doing" as we called it before. for being active in the world. So many possibilities. The obvious, Defeat the Kraken, Kill Skeletons, Solve riddles, defeat another crew, defeat the skull fort boss, etc. Then the not so obvious, exploration, collections, small xp for things like repairing the boat, bailing water...really small, but some none the less. Encourages crew work. The commendations are...bleh...they give almost nothing, are almost all repeats of what the player has already done. XP for the doing, change the timing to VC screen, logged out bonus...workable system.

Eating a banana. Firing a cannonball. The participation trophies could be endless, really.

apparently loot isn't an incentive because it can be stolen?

Personally I'd like to anchor-turn my way to Pirate Legend, as long as we're thinking so far out of the box.

I want to eat my way to PL, stowaway on people's ships and go to town on the banana's. Its now hungry hungry pirat!

Rep for cash in only, NOT voyages complete....
#BeMorePirate

@touchdown1504 As per the Forum Rules we all must remain respectful towards all other community members when posting on the forums. Failure to remain respectful of all community members will result in a temporary ban from the forums.

Please read and abide by the forum rules going forward.

Thanks!

@cardshark-360
You may want to say the same for twinky and lotr....the trolling in this thread is beyond eggregious.

@crazy-k2012
This kinda sounds like a safety zone in a way....which I would shy away from.

But That would be incredible to see and fight against.
I was bummed when they mentioned a decrease in accuracy for the cannon skellies....cuz I loved how intimidating it was for the islands to fire at ya.
Now it rarely happens and they rarely hit.

@i-am-lost-77 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@lotrmith

Like, I'm gonna pay you $1.00 to deliver a chest to me. You can find one by digging or steal one, doesn't matter to me. Stealing is harder. Most people choose to dig. Now I'm gonna change digging to pay $1.50 and guarantee you $0.50 whether you deliver the chest or not. Stealing continues to only pay $1.00. Somehow in your mind you expect more people to choose stealing than did before? To risk their $1.00 for the chance at another $1.00 because they've already been paid $0.50?

Stealing earns you $2.50. Your $1.50 from your voyage and $1.00 from the other player (pure PvP players is not a valid argument for those interested in loot they would still be doing PvE voyages). I think adding that extra $1.00 aka 66% of another voyage is worth it knowing that you still have that $0.50 even if you lose as opposed to risking everything. It’s a better risk vs reward if defender wanted to fight.

Assuming both players carrying equal treasure:

New system: 33% remaining on loss compared to +66% gain on win.

Old system: is 0% gain on loss to +100% gain on win.

First, if your argument is it discourages PvP Bc they lose 33% (which is false but since you like comparative gains and not absolutes) let’s look at how PvP is usually conducted. It’s by attacking a vulnerable opponent and usually opportunistic (assuming it’s for loot and not just for the lolz). It should cost very little time from the attacker if done properly for efficient loot gain. So that 66% gain is still very much worth the short time it should take for purposeful PvP.

If people are going on long chases then they don’t care about the loot Bc unless they saw them steaming away from a fort they could not know how much of a haul they were carrying therefore they don’t even know if they have decent loot, yet they are wasting a huge amount of time with quite possibly 0 reward.

Moving on, the ones in the current system doing the attack typically attack when they have nothing to lose making the reward 0% on lose or 0% gain for the defender so no real reason to fight. Same scenario in new system they keep 33% on loss even if it turns out being for 0% gain. The player attacking you may still have nothing. I know not everyone will fight but I think it would encourage more people to defend instead of run knowing that they at least earned something.

I also think this system will increase the time before ppl turn in and more ppl will wait till voyage completion, thus increasing players chance of finding treasure when they attack, thus incentivizing PvP more for the pvpve players.

It won’t change on a grand scale but it will shift the balance more to where I (hopefully) think the devs want it: the interaction to be where people defend loot instead of automatically run.

I know you will read this disagree and rip it apart so have fun :) you too savage and entspeak :)

The math on this is so outrageously wrong that it's not even worth addressing.

Stealing earns you $2.50, because of the $1.50 from not stealing and $1.00 from stealing?! On what planet is this supposed to make sense?

@TouchDown1504 I have deleted your recent post. Can I please ask you to read the Sea of Thieves Official Forum Rules before making your next post.

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