Something cool to add would be ghost ships. Ships that aimlessly float around the water or have skeleton crews that you have to fight for treasure.
[Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 3
@xgn-derpdegames said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 3:
Something cool to add would be ghost ships. Ships that aimlessly float around the water or have skeleton crews that you have to fight for treasure.
Doesn't even have to be ghost ships, how about AI pirates manning those ships? The game desperately needs AI ships of varying difficulty roaming the waters.
@jwspeed What I want is for consumers to research products BEFORE they buy them. It was no secret how this game was designed and operated beforehand. They had numerous beta and stress tests and have been pretty open book about their intentions for this game from the start.
There isn't fault on the part of Rare or the player wishing to PvP for actively looking for PvP. There can be fault placed on the consumer who bought a game that was transparent about it's PvP aspect and then complains that they got what they paid for.
There isn't anything wrong with players looking to PvP. It is a game system designed by Rare to work exactly how it is. If it were working not as intended then they wouldn't have come out saying that they have no plans for neutral outposts.
@greaseman85 I actually really agree with you on this concept. It would also help add other ships for PvP players who want ship-to-ship combat to shoot at rather than the PvE players.
Not saying shooting PvE players is wrong, we still disagree on that. However, I wouldn't be opposed to shooting smug skeletons or AI pirates on their ships too.
@themalthezzar Believe me I'm not against the PvP aspect of the game, I've always advocated for more options, that is all. In fact I think when the PvP happens organically it can be amazing. What I'm against is people whose goal is PvP only and think the game is supposed to be played like Call of Duty (in fact some guy compared it to COD, amazingly).
But yes, I think the addition of AI pirates/ships would greatly increase the fun and enjoyment of the game as it would give everyone more things to do.
@khaleesibot I want more of an incentive placed on exploration. Currently there are tons of "secret caves" and secret locations that are less explored by the common man. Put a random shipwrecked castaways or gold chalice or crate of cannon balls. If every 3/5ths of the time you explored an underwater cave and found so much as a shipwrecked seafarers chest, it would incentivize the player so much to explore. We could begin establishing roles completely differently. 1 man of the 4 man crew could be the explorer who does nothing voyage based but just finds the deep dark depths of the island and checks for extra loot on islands. I think this would really add to the immersive pirate experience.
Purpose
The greatest need this game has is purpose or rather a lack there of.
The quests all feel the same, easy resolve would be to add some diversity to them. Things like.:
GH - riddles that lead to riddles but give you bits along the way, ie goblets etc.
OS - take out a cursed crew, from officers to captain, the defeated skull tells you where the next officer lays.
MA - the milk run, take "x" from outpost a to outpost b, take "y" from outpost b to outpost c etc.I suppose the term is progressive quests. Maybe have some quests give you the manifesto for a ship and you have to track it's course to find the shipwreck that then holds the turn in item.
You guys had great effort for the banana quest but that steam seems to have gone in game.
Exploration? There is none at the moment, there is nothing lost or hidden to search for. The under water temples are barren and most island caves lead nowhere special.
Maybe add something that needs to be found and that has purpose in the underwater segments. Prior to launch there was some great threads about having traps and mechanisms similar to the old raiders of the lost ark film or even like the goonies but that all seems absent.
In short, add diversity to the quests to stop them getting stale and add a reason to explore. Both would enrich the experience of quests and exploration causing players to take longer voyages and thus more risk satisfying the potential increase of possible reward for those pvp-ing.
If RARE devs are reading and interested then please PM me for ideas of quest variety, i have loads.
Also I've tried PMing most of you about another matter but no one is replying.Not even sure your watching to be honest.
@gordon-sevencav supply and demand need to be a focus in this game especially for merchants. Certain outposts should have animals too and the rarity of the resource dictates it's price. If an island has particularly few bananas then the price should be higher. Also i agree resource crates should be worth more while not lowering the price for merchant crates as it is. I would also like to see more variety in the merchant faction. IE. Box of Tobacco, Box of Rum (Similar effect to chest of grogs?) crate of whatever the f***
@nwo-azcrack Fallout 4 was a masterpiece and you'll hold your tongue about that masterpiece. Did it have a glitch here or there? yes but it was 98 percent perfect.
@nwo-azcrack you gotta get the money and get what money can getchu. Cuz when you die god aint gon let you take none of it wicchu-Cassidy.
@pantang giving a c*******d 20 bucks to smoke away? that doesn't seem like money well spent. God helps those who help themselves. I don't hate your idea but I certainly don't condemn him for spending his hard earned money on himself instead of on some person who he doesn't know and possibly could be an addict. If you practice this very often then it's no wonder you're complaining about your hard earned money being a waste in a bare bones game. At least these "greedy" developers are providing you with a service for your investment. That homeless man you're doing no favors for. Teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime. Give him a fish and you'll feed him for the day. That's assuming he actually buys fish with your charitable donation and not crack.
It would seem that making the map much, much larger would possibly solve some of these problems as well as actually populating the beautiful world that has been created with living things. AI merchants, factions, various naval groups from competing countries, way more animals which could lead to hunting/fishing, way more enemies, more ships of varying types with different advantages/disadvantages, ect. The list could literally go on and on. Bottom line there needs to be a reason to explore and an actual chance to engage in said exploration without returning to an already sunken ship. Enlarging the map along with making islands much larger while keeping the server populations the same or slightly larger would help while still maintaining a level of constant tension. Granted this would almost certainly lead to less interaction between players and less PVP combat but that is another problem in and of itself. Players may not mind as much if there was so much more to do and downtime between player engagements was filled with battling npc enemies or even choosing which npc enemies to battle and which to lend aid to. Choosing a specific country or faction/group to alley oneself with perhaps? Just a few thoughts and for the record, I love this game and want it to succeed more than any multiplayer game I've ever played so don't kill me for my two cents. Thoughts and or other opinions always welcome.
@themalthezzar I watched a couple videos and read the information on Amazon before I made the purchase. No were did I see/read that almost everyone in the game was going to attack you every time you turned around. Not everyone has the time to do a ton of research and play Betas. I learned real quick how to play but it's not very much fun watching over your shoulder all the time. One can't even explore an island without getting your ship sunk. I really don't think Rare expected this to happen. The quick and easy fix would be private servers, that way you could have who you want on that server, even play solo by yourself.
Hello,
Exploration and Combat, what i think.
At the moment best rewards and satisfaction are given by Skull Forts (i consider it the Combat/pvp side of game) instead of Voyages that sometimes are frustrating .
But i'd like to be able to choose: "Today i take a Skull Fort"(combat) or "Today i take a Voyage"(exploration) and obtain, more or less, same reward and satisfaction.
What is satisfaction for me?
Satisfaction for me is bring the skull key in my hand, open the big door and find the room full of treasures.
So i'd like something similar for voyages and exploration.Suggestion/ideas:
- randomized isles: randomize the terrain and the position for some islands (maybe the expansion of map will be necessary) and put in something like unique places (hidden ancient cavern, native/picts village, etc..) with big treasures might be worth trying to find. These isles must not be signed on map.
- unique treasures: when we open the door of skull fort we find a unique big Stronghold chest and a big Stronghold skull... i like it... it's a satisfaction.
So why can't i open the hidden door of an ancient hidden temple and find something lika a "Voyage of Voyages Trasure Chest"? I think it can be a big satisfaction. (only the right key can open the treasure room of the ancient places).
All of this is about gold hoardes, so what about other companies?
Maybe some of random isles can have a various kind of flora (man-eater plants?) to collect, or can have unique/special big animals to catch (traps and/or big cages?). Other islands can have a big skeleton boss, not only human skeleton, it's can be cool have big monstrous skeleton, maybe with a collection of captain skulls in his stomach.
These voyages can be started simply with bottle message, special contract of companies or can be obtained only by Legend pirates, but if it gives big reward, it must be hard to complete. It can be an idea give generic clues, for example: "At north-east of the world there is a isle with big totem in the center" (isle is not signed on the map, so you must research it) when you find it, you find the second clue etc, up to the final key and the indication of the ancient place.
Conclusion:
I'd like to balance exploration with combat to get same satisfaction from both sides, Skull fort remains the fastest way to get huge reward but with a high risk to encounter other player and fight.
The Voyages take more time than Forts to be completed but give similar reward without high risk of combat.I know, that's all an utopia but i hope can give ispiration and suggestion for the future!
@caldon89 I agree with what you're saying.
So frustrating that me and a crew of randoms turned over a skeleton fort and done all the hard work for a crew to come in and steal everything we worked towards.
Bitter sweet game i guess and that's the downfall of it. I think you should be awarded xp for clearing waves of skeletons. Xp for beating the boss and unlocking the door. Feels so deflating to have to lose everything at times with no reward.
Can we get some contests as part of future patches?
How about fishing? (catch the biggest shark, giant octopus, kraken) OR some sailing contests, yacht er...um... galleon/sloop races?
Id love to see some smuggling (avoid royal navy) or some convoy raids too (steal the goods off a special merchant ship protected by a convoy)@jam-esoteric I agree....we stopped even trying cause it happens too often (waste of time to fail again and again due to lack of supplies to defend yourself) Game rewards people who troll other players who take all the risk.
I totaly agree with you dude !
To add an explorer faction is a great idea.
Maybe add more secret caves, uncharted islands and develop the underwater world :
As someone said in this Thread, there is 80% of water in the SoT world. So why don't develop this part of the map adding mermaid palace or things like this.The explorer quest would work like that :
1/ You speack to the “explorer”
2/ He will told you where to sreach in a radius around the outpost where he is
3/ He will ask you to find a specific place/painting/exotic plant/animal
4/ Once you have find it, you will take the special explorer map and hold it next to the thing you have found to justify you have found it
5/ After returning to the explorer, he will update your world special map and give you some secrets locations.You can find loot or special skins in this special locations or next to the animal/plant/paiting you have discovered.
So the explorer will not pay you with monney, he will just update your special map.
For the special ship, I think its not needed.
Maybe just add kind of “oxygen system” to the ship to allow players to go deep in the water (obviously, mermaid can cut the oxygen link between you and the ship to make you die).@lefaux2 said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 3:
So a tip for the "let's sink everything all the time" faction on the forums.
It's more efficient to intimidate and loot, because your victim can sail on and work for you.That's how it works in real life. In the game, there's absolutely no penalty for being sunk, and you'll have a new ship after 50 seconds. So there's NO reason not to sink every ship you see.
@marlonngrando said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 3:
I only scanned the thread so apologies if this was suggested and I missed it.
To begin with I'd like to address what I think the root of the problem actually is, basically the issue is that outside of Skull Forts, PvP interactions usually boil down to imbalanced risk/reward situations where one ship can potentially lose everything they've worked for if they lose and gain nothing if they win, while the other team gains everything if they win and lose nothing if they lose, the risk reward is not equivalent for both sides.
That said I think the best way to balance the PvE/PvP would be to add more power-up items like the gunpowder barrel that can only be gained by exploring islands. They can be attacking items like the barrel or defensive/escape items.
This makes the people who have been doing PvE much more dangerous in a fight or more difficult to attack, which is fair since they have spent more time/effort/assumed more risk.
If someone comes at you with nothing on board they are easy to dispatch/escape from.If people want to have a better chance at winning a fight they have to do exploration so they will have loot on board, which helps with the imbalance I mentioned above. They also have to put themselves in the same sort of risky situations (parking and leaving your boat).
There are all kinds of items that could be added that would be cool and fit well within the world and all these items should also be things that could be sold off just like the powder kegs.
Also just wanted to say that there are a lot of people in here saying that they don't want Rare pushing a PvE or friendly experience, keep in mind that if no one is doing the PvE stuff and everyone is just focused on PvP raiding other players then that would pointless as well since no one would ever have any loot. Ideally I think you want nice mix of both elements.
Fantastic idea!
Love this game! There's so many incredible things Sea does to immerse you in the life of a pirate but also at times can leave you frustrated and wanting more depth. I believe creating more depth in both PvP, PvE and the beautiful world they created (oceanlife and way more random sea treasures) is essential and coming.
Adding the "Black Spot" would be an incredible pirate homage and would give players that want to go sink ships a reason to do so rather than picking on sloops endlessly. Some form of bounty system could accrue based on gameplay.@matzor said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 3:
That's how it works in real life. In the game, there's absolutely no penalty for being sunk, and you'll have a new ship after 50 seconds. So there's NO reason not to sink every ship you see.
I tried to explain that with "frustrate players, they will quit the game, hence there's not much left to take/fight/sink".
@jwspeed said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 3:
@themalthezzar I watched a couple videos and read the information on Amazon before I made the purchase. No were did I see/read that almost everyone in the game was going to attack you every time you turned around. Not everyone has the time to do a ton of research and play Betas. I learned real quick how to play but it's not very much fun watching over your shoulder all the time. One can't even explore an island without getting your ship sunk. I really don't think Rare expected this to happen. The quick and easy fix would be private servers, that way you could have who you want on that server, even play solo by yourself.
Exactly this. many people assume those of us unhappy with the current state of the game picked it up without knowing anything about it. Quite the contrary, I personally have been excited about this game since it was first showcased and had been looking forward to it.
I'm pretty sure someone that just picked up the game without knowing anything about it, and was disappointed by it, wouldn't take the time of day to come on the forums and complain so passionately.@jwspeed I think you and a good amount of people complaining about the PvP are grossly overreacting and overstating the rate of its occurrence.
I have almost 100 hours in the game already and I could count the number of times I have been actively chased, sunk at the dock, or harassed turning loot in at one hand even if I were missing a few fingers.
We get it looking over your shoulder is stressful and getting killed at quest turn-in sucks. However, it is SUPPOSED to be that way. It is supposed to be dangerous and stressful.
You CAN explore 99% of islands without being sunk. There are only 5 other ships on your server at once. Again, I think most people are overreacting based on a very low number of instances and are amplifying how bad the problem is perceived.
AND at the end of the day avoiding other players is just too easy to warrant this much complaining.
@khaleesibot
If you guys are serious about fixing things, you can start by redoing everything.The questing system is pathetic, finding treasure with an X on a map should be exciting, you managed to make it monotonous work. Skeleton hunting is boring and searching for chickens... all work. A grind of a progression system.
The map is small, should have spread out the sea zones with more open water. the visual transition into the wilds is faster then putting on sunglasses. Shallows are never utilized properly. The island hopping is so quick you get the ship going just to get it stopped, and you always have something to dodge. Chases end up the same way when your stuck in a box.
The Ocean has no style. only the same looking sharks that spawn within 100 meters from you and nothing else. As great as your water is, when you stand on the crows nest you can easily see the wave pattern grid.
Customization is a joke. 4 sets for everything with 1 variant of re-colour. half of it locked behind the grind that is the progression wall. a colour-wheel would have negated most of this issue.
Do not ever mention micro transactions again... ever. You made more then enough from those who trusted you with that 70-80 dollar price tag.
I was looking forward to this game over everything else, this is just sad.
Creativity and Variety can go a long way.
Let’s start with exploring.
So the problem with exploring is that there is nothing to find other than a chest or some gun powder that is laying around. There are cool looking caves and some funny things to see but is it all, just things you can see.
If you want people to explore put 15 skeletons in a cave guarding 3 or 4 chests or make a secret layer you have to pull a lever to open! Maybe there is 2 or 3 places to open, some may even be dead ends. You could find secret letter that lead you to a leaver that you have to splash with water to find.
Make the exploration interactive for the player with some reward in the end.Now the player combat.
I think the overall combat is good, especially with the sniper rifle damaged increase. The only thing that needs improvement is a way to make the ships not circle one another to fight. Some way need to be made so that you can pull a ship next to yours.
With that you can bored the ship to take supplies. It would make it a ship frack battle.
A revive and capture system would be nice.
Let’s say you get killed so you go down. Then after 5 seconds you can go to the fairy of the damned. But you can wait for a buddy to revive you or the enemy can hog tie you and it takes 6 seconds to do. But your buddy could cut you out in 2 second and an extra second for you to get the rope of you.
It would add a new way to play the game but a new set of problems would also come with it.
It would also be nice if you could copy an enemy players quest. Making it like a bottle quest for you. That would make sneaking on a ship more worth it.@themalthezzar said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 3:
@jwspeed I think you and a good amount of people complaining about the PvP are grossly overreacting and overstating the rate of its occurrence.
I have almost 100 hours in the game already and I could count the number of times I have been actively chased, sunk at the dock, or harassed turning loot in at one hand even if I were missing a few fingers.
We get it looking over your shoulder is stressful and getting killed at quest turn-in sucks. However, it is SUPPOSED to be that way. It is supposed to be dangerous and stressful.
You CAN explore 99% of islands without being sunk. There are only 5 other ships on your server at once. Again, I think most people are overreacting based on a very low number of instances and are amplifying how bad the problem is perceived.
AND at the end of the day avoiding other players is just too easy to warrant this much complaining.
Not everyone want dangerous and stressful, but they still want to sail a ship and dig up chests just for fun. Why not fix the game so everyone can enjoy it.
@logansdadtoo
That happened to me so many Times.- I'm playing alone. So i have No Chance to do a rate and get so often killed when i'm trying to Bring my chests to an outpost.
An Option to search for a Crew would bei nice!!!!
@jwspeed Then you bought the wrong game? It seems silly to get buy a game, get in and play, and then complain to the developers when the game is working as intended.
You CAN still sail around and dig up chests for fun. The game isn't broken in the sense you are implying. Just avoid other ships. They are huge and identifiable in a large open sea. You can see them from forever out.
Park your ship on the back side of islands if you want to decrease the chance of being seen. Always try to park if possible so that the island hides your sail from the other side and preferably if close to the edges of the map on the opposite side of the island that is facing the interior of the map. Be sure to always scan horizons as you explore around the island and get a good sense of estimating how long it would take for a ship to reach your current position based on when you first spot them.
When in doubt, RUN. There are plenty of quests to do and they usually send you to several islands per quest. Just go on to the next island and come back.
Being chased by a Galleon = Head directly into the wind
Being chased by a Sloop = Sail better than them, the two ships are on equal footing as far as speed and maneuverability.Another issue with PvP balance it seems is the lack of a resource recovery measure. For the last few days, our crew wanted to focus on PvE content since a few of us have esteemed mission access now, making the content worth choosing over PvP. However, to our dismay, people kept attacking us and we're fine with it. We're sitting at a 60 kill and 1 death streak now and it feels great- except we find ourselves wishing for cannonballs that each time we sink some of these aggressive sea s**m, we spent 50+ cannonballs while on their ship, while they've got 100 or so! We need a way to get that resource back, those cannon crates should float to the top as well so we can remand our spent resources defending ourselves and our loot for essentially zero reward either than we can FINALLY get back to business.
I can respect the fact that your holding strongly to your own ideas, but the point of feedback is to actually improve the game. When this game came out. I was THE number one fan. Now it just seems like all these game patches and developer update videos are trying to fool people into thinking this game still has something to offer. The quite obvious problems are just now getting addressed, and there are still problems, such as the sloop having a galleon anchor, which have never been addressed. It seems the most crucial mechanics to winning are not even looked at. Things like the ladder kicking you off for no reason, or just unwanted ladder release in dire situations. I'm tired of hearing you guys talk so timidly while constantly looking at each others faces to make sure nothing too important was said. If you're going to make videos, get some good PR guys on the job, because the videos and streams sound like you guys are afraid to talk about 90% of the game. It sounds like you're burying the important details within the endless ramble about what you were trying to do. I get what you were trying to do, but this is a video game which is exclusively played online with other players. Cyber bullying has always been an issue, and nothing seems to help. So why make a game which allows endless trolling? It seems like many people are selling off their copies because they can't even progress in the game. If I played this game as poorly and fearfully as i play Fortnite, I would be one of those people who cannot progress. If I didn't have a few tricks up my sleeve, I would've stopped playing on day one. I did enjoy this game, but after hearing such soft babble from the PR squad, I realised: this is not the game they promised or were trying to make. This game is a victim of its own abuse. This could've been such a sweet game if there was more openness to it. I love the game. I like the idea, but you pulled a GTA V. you tried to add realism into a game which doesn't support the realism you added. You made a game for a few people, but now everyone is getting on and they don't know what to do. The game doesn't send you off on a pirate adventure, it sends you into the water on a boat. I'm tired of hearing people say "I don't really know what to do". Anybody who has played a sailing game or has actually sailed, will vaguely understand the game. This game doesn't balance well. Any ignorant hoodlum can pick up destiny or call of duty and start playing. They know what to do, and with a little direction, they can win a national tournament. The learning curve for this game falls nearly flat. The only way to win is to have played the beta, alpha, or started on day 1. Otherwise, over half of the server is far better than you, which takes the fun away from beginners. There's a reason why matchmade games pair you up with people on somewhat the same skill level. I have little suggestions which are viable. All I can say is you moved in the wrong direction from the start.
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