Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal

  • Simple thing. The reputation is like experience. The player doing the voyage gets to experience the voyage, gaining it in the form of reputation from it, and anyone who returns the loot gets the gold. This is near perfect realism.

    In addition the looters would need their own voyages as well so they can climb the bloating and ridiculous number game to gain experience, a.k.a. reputation, from PvP coz that's what they wanna do.

    The realism argument is pro-topic, not against it. Upvote number 150.

    Maybe the loot return could reward some reputation as well. Maybe the ratio could be like 50/50 or 20/80 since stealing and returning the loot is an experience in itself as well. I would still prefer that looters get their own PvP voyages too. ^^

  • @veristepes said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @savagetwinky the game does not have a concept of Quest chest. If the game had a concept of quest chests they would trade in like things do when you take a merchant Alliance mission but they don't. When you turn in a chest that you got off of mission it's just like finding a chest on a beach randomly. Also to make the game give you a certain percentage at one time and another percentage upon turn in would be writing a whole new operation into how quests work. Nowhere in the game do they have a system like that so they would have to create it.

    Of course, the game has a quest chest, it's just not visual. How do you think the game knows when you've dug up all the chests pertaining to the voyage and you get a voyage complete? Because it knows what chests belong to the voyage.

  • @savagetwinky or it knows when you have no maps left. The chest only works like a normal chest

  • @veristepes said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @savagetwinky or it knows when you have no maps left. The chest only works like a normal chest

    The maps correspond to the chests, and once you've completed those maps and not the bottles or anything else you might get another chapters.

    So the system that is there -
    The start/stop of a voyage is being tracked
    voyage targets are being tracked
    when one of the targets found is being tracked
    and what loot is found is known in the context of all the s**t being tracked.

    As a software engineer that writes software for mass spectrometers... I probably know more about software than you the self declared 'not a programmer'

  • @savagetwinky but you don't know that the chests that pop are tracked as what kind they are specifically to your party. Just because you program doesn't mean you know how the game tracks specific instances and to claim you know more because you program at all is just idiotic man. Don't get all high and mighty without facts it just makes you look dumb

  • @savagetwinky the chest gain you nothing extra if they are during quest chests, a completely different instance than how turning in animals works with the merchant alliance. They turn in like a chest you get on a beach, get at a skull fort, or steal from another person. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the chests are tracked per your map per your party specifically as what kind of chest you dug up only that a chest was dug up in the correct location.

  • I would really appreciate a small portion of reputation gain once you've completed a voyage. It doesn't have to be huge but just something is better than nothing.

  • @savagetwinky said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    As a software engineer that writes software for mass spectrometers... I probably know more about software than you the self declared 'not a programmer'

    What is a spectrometer?

  • @savagetwinky said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @veristepes said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @savagetwinky the game does not have a concept of Quest chest. If the game had a concept of quest chests they would trade in like things do when you take a merchant Alliance mission but they don't. When you turn in a chest that you got off of mission it's just like finding a chest on a beach randomly. Also to make the game give you a certain percentage at one time and another percentage upon turn in would be writing a whole new operation into how quests work. Nowhere in the game do they have a system like that so they would have to create it.

    Of course, the game has a quest chest, it's just not visual. How do you think the game knows when you've dug up all the chests pertaining to the voyage and you get a voyage complete? Because it knows what chests belong to the voyage.

    Either that or the X merely marks the spot and when we press our shovel to the ground beneath the X, a random chest is rolled at that point to pop up. Whichever is easier to code into a believable feature, I wager.

  • @arch-fable said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @savagetwinky said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @veristepes said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @savagetwinky the game does not have a concept of Quest chest. If the game had a concept of quest chests they would trade in like things do when you take a merchant Alliance mission but they don't. When you turn in a chest that you got off of mission it's just like finding a chest on a beach randomly. Also to make the game give you a certain percentage at one time and another percentage upon turn in would be writing a whole new operation into how quests work. Nowhere in the game do they have a system like that so they would have to create it.

    Of course, the game has a quest chest, it's just not visual. How do you think the game knows when you've dug up all the chests pertaining to the voyage and you get a voyage complete? Because it knows what chests belong to the voyage.

    Either that or the X merely marks the spot and when we press our shovel to the ground beneath the X, a random chest is rolled at that point to pop up. Whichever is easier to code into a believable feature, I wager.

    That's precisely how it works, when you start a GH voyage the server picks a random number and generates enough maps/riddles to find that many chests, once each X has been dug up the map vanishes and once each riddle spot has been found and dug up the riddle vanishes, when all maps/riddles are gone the voyage either triggers another chapter or finishes... the specifics of what chests you find along the way are still completely random however and functionally no different that any naturally spawned chest of the same type.

  • @ch4o5bl4d3 which means the game most likely does not track the specific chests you dig up on a mission.

  • @veristepes said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @ch4o5bl4d3 which means the game most likely does not track the specific chests you dig up on a mission.

    That's what I was getting at, yes.

    The game doesn't track much of anything when it comes to items really, only what item it is... hence why it's possible to take a stronghold key to a different fort and use it to open an empty vault because the key isn't actually tied to the island it was originally from, any stronghold key can open any stronghold vault even if there's nothing in it!

  • @ch4o5bl4d3 Ok, I am trying my best to follow the speculation here on how the mechanics of programming work (or might work). You seem pretty savvy on this stuff. So, let me ask...

    How hard would it be based on what you have speculated here, to change the timing of the rewards system?

    I am not a programmer by any means, so I am guessing. Both GH and OoS work on the same principle. Retrieve object, "Voyage Complete", turn in receive reputation and gold. MA, is retrieve object(s), turn in objects, now it is "Voyage Complete" receive reputation and gold. So, changing the GH and OoS to receive reputation on "Voyage Complete" and gold on turn in, in my eyes is a timing change...am I way off on this? Yes, I understand we are ALL just speculating on how the coding in this game works.

  • There is a lot of points of view I am seeing, so just going to offer my own feedback as opposed to directly replying as some of these opinions are very strong.

    From what I have seen playing the game so far, the PvP element is almost exclusively tied to the PvE one in that, in order to facilitate the PvP side of the game, people need to engage in PvE. Now I know that is not 100% exclusive as technically you can fight each other all day and some people will find that fun - but ultimately you get no rewards for doing that.

    The rewards for PvP, sneaking up on ships, stealing their loot etc, require that the other party has loot to begin with and ultimately the only way for that to happen is for someone to engage and complete the PvE objectives, exploration, voyages etc.

    What this means is you really want to have some kind of balance between the desire to PvP and the desire to PvE because if you remove one, the other stops happening. This is why safe zones or PvE only servers would break a lot of the expectations on gameplay and remove the risk.

    The biggest issue I see at the moment in game is that there is tangible rewards for effort - or an equivalency of effort for PvP content, that is, you put in some effort camping, chasing or otherwise harrasing another boat and you have the chance to steal a lot of loot and get rewards. If you fail, however, the consequences are fairly non-existent.

    On the other hand, if you engage in the PvE side of things, it is time consuming, relatively boring and you get no rewards unless you can fully complete it, so if you fail, you lose a lot of time as well as rewards.

    This is skewing the balance of incentives heavily PvP. While PvP players may not have an issue with this and I can also see some validity to the argument of losing your treasure in such PvP events, people need to keep in mind that unless there is some tangible reward for PvE that does nto involved the potential for spending hours and getting no advancement at all, for the casual and typical gamer they simply will grow tired of and stop doing the PvE pretty much altogether.

    If their was significantly more PvE content that would be rewarding to the casual player, you would get a lot more people out and about exploring which also opens up more opportunities for PvP. As it stands, the PvE content is so incredibly shallow and uninteresting that it is just not keeping the playerbase at large interested.

    Less people playing PvE, less people to steal from and create opportunities for PvP.

    From my own perspective, the PvE has so little content that is interesting that after the initial fun run I had, all I am doing at the moment is playing just long enought to complete a few voyages and hand in loot and tire of the game and leave. As I know I will lose everything if attacked, I am intentionally avoiding PvP as there is no point in playing the game for several hours to make no progress at all. My trial for XBox game pass runs out on Monday and I took that to trial the game. I do not see enough interesting gameplay to warranty paying the $100.00 (Australia) that the game is charging to buy it outright.

    So while I see many people objecting to any kind of additional incentive to PvE, and I also am not sure myself on what the "best solution is", without some kind of change all I see happening is people stopping PvE or leaving altogether which in turn will reduce and cripple the PvP and that is not a good direction right now for a game that is two weeks post release.

  • @virtutis6590 You broke it down very well! It is the exact sentiment many in this thread, and some other threads feel. To me, if I am doing PvE I feel like I am the content for the PvP players. I was so frustrated with it this morning, I decided to not take voyages at all, and simply hunt other ships! I was becoming what I despise, out of boredom and frustration! There will be changes, I have no doubt. The question is, will the changes come too late, like they did for The Division?

  • I love this idea. I’ve spent hours online gathered up quite a hoard just to lose it due to disconnect (damn you alabasterbeard!!!) or murder crews. It’s frustrating. And kinda makes me feel cheated and not want to play anymore.

    The only issue I see this causing, and it really isn’t a big issue, is it would make shipwrecks and “bonus chests” and skull forts obsolete. Perhaps granting reputation to all on the fort at the time of completion would be good? It would promote team work at forts at least till the fort is done then a mad dash for the loot. Which could be even more exciting and no where near as frustrating as it is now. “Oh look that galleon we just spent 20 minutes sinking is back. Better stop fighting the skull fort to go fight these guys again for ANOTHER 20 minutes.” Turns into “sweet more assistance. Let’s get the rep and then duke it out for the gold or split it 50/50.”

  • @veristepes hmmm. Well, getting it when you dig up or kill a skelly is not that complicated either. There are events for chest discovery and skelly captains killed already. Even percentage calculation wouldn't be. Now, if we're saying that it's unnecessary "complicated" I may agree, but from a code point of view it's not a big issue, I think.

    Surely all this mess could have been avoided from the beginning with a little planning, but that's an entirely different topic.

  • Well, if you are tasked with "Bring us these chests" "Bring back these captains heads" or "Take 5 Pigs to X Outpost" I don't see why your reputation with either of them should go up when you show up without the goods saying "We er... lost the stuff... But we FOUND them, does that mean we are looked upon more favourably by your company? Please?... pretty please..."

    Voyage complete typically means no more things to collect, technically the voyages for Gold Hoarders and Order of Souls should not complete until you HAVE delivered the goods like Merchant contracts, so I don't see any reason you should gain reputation for literally not delivering on what you were asked to do.

    It just sounds like some people need to get better at guarding their cargo.

  • @ch4o5bl4d3 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @arch-fable said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @savagetwinky said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @veristepes said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @savagetwinky the game does not have a concept of Quest chest. If the game had a concept of quest chests they would trade in like things do when you take a merchant Alliance mission but they don't. When you turn in a chest that you got off of mission it's just like finding a chest on a beach randomly. Also to make the game give you a certain percentage at one time and another percentage upon turn in would be writing a whole new operation into how quests work. Nowhere in the game do they have a system like that so they would have to create it.

    Of course, the game has a quest chest, it's just not visual. How do you think the game knows when you've dug up all the chests pertaining to the voyage and you get a voyage complete? Because it knows what chests belong to the voyage.

    Either that or the X merely marks the spot and when we press our shovel to the ground beneath the X, a random chest is rolled at that point to pop up. Whichever is easier to code into a believable feature, I wager.

    That's precisely how it works, when you start a GH voyage the server picks a random number and generates enough maps/riddles to find that many chests, once each X has been dug up the map vanishes and once each riddle spot has been found and dug up the riddle vanishes, when all maps/riddles are gone the voyage either triggers another chapter or finishes... the specifics of what chests you find along the way are still completely random however and functionally no different that any naturally spawned chest of the same type.

    So in other words, each X marks a loot box that rolls a random box. 😂 Hahaha!

  • @arch-fable said in [Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in

    So in other words, each X marks a loot box that rolls a random box. 😂 Hahaha!

    Essentially yes, that's why you can spend 100g on a Lv25 GH voyage that gives you only 1 castaways chest worth 80g, the game is basically pure RNG it doesn't even have validation to make sure you always get a voyage that will at least pay for its upfront cost!

  • @the-green-elbow said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    Well, if you are tasked with "Bring us these chests" "Bring back these captains heads" or "Take 5 Pigs to X Outpost" I don't see why your reputation with either of them should go up when you show up without the goods saying "We er... lost the stuff... But we FOUND them, does that mean we are looked upon more favourably by your company? Please?... pretty please..."

    That's how gold works as a medium. Experience is an ongoing reward which is the issue; how the system works when it comes to the experience and reputation. Some players use those two words as synonyms, which implies about the reason some players don't like the current state of affairs, me included. Core issue is the whole structure however. I would have never even considered a system structure like this at the core of the game in the first place, if you ask me. It doesn't fit the concept at all nor the philosophy.

    Voyage complete typically means no more things to collect,...

    Which is technically giving the wrong impression or the experience gained until that point just needs to be registered.

    ...technically the voyages for Gold Hoarders and Order of Souls should not complete until you HAVE delivered the goods like Merchant contracts,...

    Correct. This would give an accurate impression, but now we would have a useless map on our hands since we already have the loot and going back won't give us replacements in case the loot gets stolen.

    ...so I don't see any reason you should gain reputation for literally not delivering on what you were asked to do.

    This is why the current reward system is deemed illogical. It assumes reputation and experience to work in the same way. You can't lock experience beyond a task. The whole path to that task is part of that experience so these two need to be separated for the voyages to be more believable. Reputation should not work like an experience system does. Reputation is a good idea, but I think it needs to be separated from voyages and redesigned into all encompassing activity based system instead. It's about what we are to be known for. The experience part unlocking tiers should be trashed with the almost whole tier based rewarding system coz yet again, the experience should not be locked behind a task. Tiers are a completely unnecessary phasing feature in a game which should be about freedom of choice and self brewed stories. The core system effectively prevents the game from being what it was meant to be.

    It just sounds like some people need to get better at guarding their cargo.

    Not just this, but this is true as well in some instances.

  • @ch4o5bl4d3 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @arch-fable said in [Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in

    So in other words, each X marks a loot box that rolls a random box. 😂 Hahaha!

    Essentially yes, that's why you can spend 100g on a Lv25 GH voyage that gives you only 1 castaways chest worth 80g, the game is basically pure RNG it doesn't even have validation to make sure you always get a voyage that will at least pay for its upfront cost!

    Pseudo-randomness variables do work when utilised properly in the development process. I don't mind if the whole game was based on RNG. Sadly it isn't.

    From my perspective the mechanism here is not an issue. It is simple and feels nice coz you don't know what to expect... well, sadly it's going to a chest each time, but hopefully we could unearth many things in the near future. However, the task itself is an issue due the relevancy of what the task is linked to.

  • @enpixelate Nah, keep it the way it is, it would be too easy to get rep without actually managing to fight off all the other pirates for your loot.

  • @sawhix said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @enpixelate Nah, keep it the way it is, it would be too easy to get rep without actually managing to fight off all the other pirates for your loot.

    As long as the servers are this unstable and nasty bugs rob ppl of loot, OP's idea is a good one imo.

  • @mighty-ace123 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @sawhix said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @enpixelate Nah, keep it the way it is, it would be too easy to get rep without actually managing to fight off all the other pirates for your loot.

    As long as the servers are this unstable and nasty bugs rob ppl of loot, OP's idea is a good one imo.

    What are you on about? Servers will get fixed, I can't believe you actually think the servers will be unstable forever lol.

  • @sawhix yeah RARE has really delivered up to this point.

  • Hello every one!

    I've not read all replies before posting but I'll be short:

    Have you ever considering the reputation you get is actually the money you earn in each faction?

    Let's say 1 500 000 golds to be legend - 500k each :-)

    So getting reputation by doing something else far from faction sight is nonsense! You broke bones did you? Whatever! Gimme those skull right away if you want your réputation!

  • @ch4o5bl4d3 Stahp lol.

    You always get enough to pay for the up front cost, at least in my experience. I think the most expensive mission is 200g. A castaway chest on mission is normally what, 05-200g? Ive never had a net loss to date (i do keep an eye on it).

    As for the programming side. You guys saying it would require a new system to give us rewards upon dig / kill are full of s**t. You guys saying it doesn't keep track of events are full of s**t too lol.

    When you kill a captain, it tells you that that captain is defeated. When you did up a chest, music plays. The game knows WHEN you dig up a chest or kill a captain or capture an animal and precisely when you do it.

    It would be trivial for them to put the code for experience gain from the turn in of the chest to the killing of the mob. They are both events within the code.

    Once Condition X is met, reward Y. Like another poster said, the only way they couldn't do this is if they were absolutely horrible coders and had spaghetti code. I doubt that is the case here.

  • I agree with you. I think we should still receive XP for actually turning in the booty but should at least get some for completing voyages

  • @sawhix How hard is it to grasp this concept. Its like people ignore it. I will spell it out for you guys one more time.

    In the current system, if I have just completed a voyage and have 2 mauraders, 1 captains, and found a grog chest and see another ship, I AM NOT GOING TO FIGHT. I AM GOING TO RUN.

    I am not fighting anything off at all. There is no fighting even crossing my mind. I am going to do drive by turn ins, mermaid back to the ship, rinse and repeat.

    THE CURRENT SYSTEM OF REWARDING EXPERIENCE POINTS ACTUALLY MAKES PVP LESS FREQUENT AS THE RISK OF LOSING EVERYTHING IS JUST TOO GREAT.

    In the proposed system (the one id like to see anyways)

    Pre-turn in : 100% experience gain upon task completion (tasks are capturing / killing / digging) / 0% gold gained until turn in)

    Turn-in : 25-50% bonus experience (task experience points / .5) + 100% gold reward)

    THIS SYSTEM WOULD LEAD TO MORE INTERACTION/PVP BECAUSE OF THE LOWER RISK. YOU WOULDNT LOSE THE BULK OF YOUR PROGRESS .

    Its really simple.

  • @skyewauker I do understand what you're asking and i'm saying it's a bad idea. Running is your playstyle and you can run but nobody guarantees you can get away with it which is part of the fun, I don't mind people running from pvp, they create a challenge for me to catch and sink them. If rep was awarded without actually having to turn in your stuff, everyone will run like you, leave the ship, you got the exp already and don't care and also no incentives for us to sink your running ship cause you already got the rep. Boring.

  • @sawhix Running is almost EVERYONE'S playstyle if they have valuable loot on their ship. Period. No one is hanging around to fight if they have all of their progress from the last 2 hours sitting there. There is still rep to get and gold to get upon turn in most everyone's proposed solution(s).

    I keep seeing the last sentence of your post as well. Its b******t. You are attacking the other ship for the following :

    • PvP
    • Gold
    • PvP

    You get craptastic experience for turning in non-mission loot. If you are PvPing to try and level (other than fort treasure) you are playing the game way, way wrong. Experience shouldn't even cross your mind as a reason for attacking as you get virtually none for doing so.
    Yea guys lets attack that ship to get 1/1000th of a level when we turn their castaway chests in!!!!! Come on bro.

  • @skyewauker I never run and my reason for pvp is firstly managing to sink your ship and then if you had treasure that's a bonus, if you rage on the voice it's even better and my job as a pirate is done. I like that pirating activities don't get the loser anything and the winner takes all the spoils. It's pirates on an open sea! Don't want to turn this into an arcade game where you progress whatever happens.

  • @sawhix What you don't get, and honestly most of the hardcore pvp crowd dont, is this particular issue is causing players to quit the game.

    Sure you can sit here and say "lulz they quit, can i have your stuffs' , but at the end of the day the game is dead if you don't fix broken systems.

    You should ALWAYS progress in a game. As Touchdown posted, this wasn't even the intentional route. They actually meant to have rep and gold separate. Gold is all you are supposed to lose.

    There are 2 currencies. One is your progress, one is your dollars to buy stuff. You gain one (your actual leveling up) when you do missions, you gain the other (currency) when you turn in the valuables. Its win/win.

    Imagine in WoW. You go into a raid and die? Welp, you just de-leveled. Come back once you gain all of that experience back. Its no different. Its one of the reasons games took out experience loss upon death (Like FFXI). Its just not fun losing everything.

  • @enpixelate

    I'd be ok with this compromise, but things in this game still need to change.

    Currently, there's 0 risk in being a PvP player, where there's 100% risk in being a PvE player. That needs to change, because with that balance, tons of people are just camping and getting cheap kills or treating the game like their own peronsal deathmatch. And they do this because there's no drawback for doing it.

    If people want to talk realism, in real life, pirates never really (or very rarely) attacked or looted each other.

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