@mykemichail said in When does pirating become griefing?:
Your goal when pirating other ships should be:
- Get their loot
Thank you.
When does pirating become griefing?
@mykemichail said in When does pirating become griefing?:
If you're sitting around deliberately camping another ship so every time they die you just kill them again repeatedly for no reason, then it's griefing.
I couldn't agree more. Between the alpha & beta I only had one session that left me really frustrated. I was playing solo, and there was a 4 man ship essentially circling around the same out-post (but far enough out you might not consider them a threat when you first spawn).
Before I could even get to an island to get my first chest they sunk my ship, and would immediately go back towards the outpost and wait for me (or anybody else) to spawn back on a new ship.
At one point I was able to board their boat and actually kill them, and I attempted to run their ship aground, in the hopes it'd start sinking before they re-spawned, but ultimately bailed from their ship when a couple re-appeared. Anyway, it was clear from their proximity chat that they were more concerned with being jerks then pirating.
All in all still enjoying the game. One bad session out of dozens hasn't ruined it for me.
Honestly I think people will just need to get it out of their system and pick their spots. The engagements are fun, don’t get me wrong - but not worthwhile from an advancement point of view.
That being said I feel like there needs to be a safe zone for ships that are stationary within x meters or an outpost. And a safe zone for unloading.
Port trolls are getting to be a bit much.
@lpmurph said in When does pirating become griefing?:
Honestly I think people will just need to get it out of their system and pick their spots. The engagements are fun, don’t get me wrong - but not worthwhile from an advancement point of view.
That being said I feel like there needs to be a safe zone for ships that are stationary within x meters or an outpost. And a safe zone for unloading.
Port trolls are getting to be a bit much.
The Outposts have the essence of civility (ie. merchants and taverns) being that you cannot just kill off the merchant NPCs and take what you want.
I don't see why there can't be NPC 'guards' that would also uphold that civility...... creating a space for all pirates where you can put down the musket, even just for a second, and have some grog in peace.
If it's all just 'kill or be killed', I feel like the game will lose out on some quality, in-game community building.
@ctl-x-alt-x-del Had nearly the same experience.
Okay, it is a PVP game, but there is not even spawn protection.
When I respawned on my ship, someone was waiting for me and shooting me down again, and again, and again ...
I had to log out.
I'll try again tomorrow.
But with this big hole in game design, I think I'll not be interested in the final game.@stem589 I totally agree. Or give the player the option of hiring npcs to take the bigger ships, or separate servers between 1 - 2 players and 4 players. And I would also say that anyone who decides to take it to that extreme is a "Jerk". PVP is NOT known as griefing, their are rules you should follow, they even have ESports for PVP games, many which I love to play and play with some of the best players. However, when it becomes griefing is when you kill someone for no apparent reason, camp their spawn ( like not fully destroying your ship so the 4 stack could kill you once you respawn), outright telling the 4 stack someone is new although they still destroy their ship and kill them at port and attack you... While I could continue with the list, I won't. It really doesn't take a genius to figure it out. Hopefully they remedy the problem.
@stem589 I love the idea of NPC merchant ships (was just saying that to a friend moments ago). Maybe even NPC naval patrol ships to add some more of a challenge (and easier target practice :D ).
Attacking other players is naturally going to be the thing that bigger groups do to smaller groups / solo players, at this stage of the game.
Remember - its' still early, people are still learning the game, and not fully sure what the heck to do. So, you see someone and you kill them. It's natural.
The overall flow and minute-to-minute playthrough of the game isn't going to be established until the game comes out fully in March. This feels almost identically to The Division's beta in that regard.
The way the betas played, and the way the full release meta was established, were very different.
@thehydraulicbat said in When does pirating become griefing?:
@ctl-x-alt-x-del Had nearly the same experience.
Okay, it is a PVP game, but there is not even spawn protection.
When I respawned on my ship, someone was waiting for me and shooting me down again, and again, and again ...
I had to log out.
I'll try again tomorrow.
But with this big hole in game design, I think I'll not be interested in the final game.I think this is the best solution to this issue right now.
All a griefer wants you to do it respawn so they can kill you over, and over, and over again.
Just log out, sign in again, and start up another ship with your crew. All you'll lose is some cannon balls, lumber, and ammo.... easily replenished in any Outpost you start in.
Leave that griefer sitting by your spawn point watching and waiting for nothing.
@stem589 said in When does pirating become griefing?:
@thehydraulicbat said in When does pirating become griefing?:
@ctl-x-alt-x-del Had nearly the same experience.
Okay, it is a PVP game, but there is not even spawn protection.
When I respawned on my ship, someone was waiting for me and shooting me down again, and again, and again ...
I had to log out.
I'll try again tomorrow.
But with this big hole in game design, I think I'll not be interested in the final game.I think this is the best solution to this issue right now.
All a griefer wants you to do it respawn so they can kill you over, and over, and over again.
Just log out, sign in again, and start up another ship with your crew. All you'll lose is some cannon balls, lumber, and ammo.... easily replenished in any Outpost you start in.
Leave that griefer sitting by your spawn point watching and waiting for nothing.
I agree that this is the best... "solution". However it feels more like a workaround. Like switching picnic tables because there's a bee and one. The bee is still there, she can still come to your table, and even if she doesn't, there's more than one bee.
The second you allow unfettered PvP, the bees will always swarm.
You'll end up with fewer and fewer picnickers and eventually have nothing left but a bunch of bees with nothing to eat. In time, they'll move back to the flowers (FPS PvP ESport games).
A game only gets one chance at a first impression.
BETA reviews can be brushed off as 'testing of an incomplete game', but if PvP issues like this exist at launch, the reviews will not be favorable.
Getting killed and looted is a fundamental part of the game. It's needed. It's what makes the game worth playing and put the only value to otherwise easy loot.
What's not needed is players who will spawn camp you indefinitely. That's not fun (for the recipient), it's not good for the player base, it's not good PvP, and I feel it can be fixed.
... and maybe the game isn't for everyone. I will absolutely be playing and simply keeping my eyes on the horizon, griefing or not.
my first experience since the Alpha is as follows.
First game I was immediately placed in the brig by my crew (literally within 30 seconds) and the taunted and ridiculed via chat for minutes to leave then logged off.
Second game. spawned on a gallon that was under attack and was consequently killed and spawn killed several times. This went on for a long time we were sport to hunt and play with while they sunk our ship. Even after complete defeat they continued to spawn kill us repeatedly.
I will try again this weekend when I have my regular crew.
I love how some people try to excuse any absurd behavior no matter what. To my mind there are definitely some situations in this game that equate to grieving:
1 - justifiably sinking a ship once, then searching the nearby islands for the crew of that ship on their brand new nearly empty vessel and speeding over there to kill them before they can get organized. I have seen this one repeated several times and there’s no purpose in it but ruining someone’s day.
2 - purposely targeting ships leaving outposts. The ships have no treasure, they often have no supplies, and there’s really no good reason to attack them.
3 - sitting on a ship after the crew has been killed, and simply waiting for them to reappear and kill them again. This is definitely griefing, and the scuttle mechanic was basically introduced to offer an escape from it. It can be difficult to get a disorganized crew to manage the mechanics, though.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s perfectly all right to take out another ship for any half-baked reason. If you think they might have treasure, sink them! If someone on their deck shoots at you, sink them! If they’re sailing straight at you on the wide-open sea, sink them!
Or let’s just put this very simply, don’t be disingenuous and pretend you don’t know the difference between playing the game for loot and fun, and playing the game to ruin someone else’s play. Every single person with any degree of social acumen whatsoever can tell the difference between the two.
@ulfwizard said in When does pirating become griefing?:
I'm no wishy washy but ultimately griefing is bullying. Lets be honest here, if you have fun at anybody elses expensive without them wanting it, that is bullying. Let's at least call it what it is...
Arrr! Ye dug up sumthing old and smelly, mate. Yarr harr!
@aod-redshirt yarr I did there matey...me good ole Mum...rest her weary ole bones said thy don't dig in muck...lest thee shovel go rusting....
Here's the thing, most complain about "griefing" because you trust people too much. I don't trust anyone on the game and I will attack anyone. If there is an island I need to go to, I will sink their ship, ancored or not. I don't give anyone chances. The game has PvP (one of the few fun aspects of the game), so people WILL go after you in any situation.
A little off topic but still within the behavior of people. Any FPS multiplayer game which has a setting for friendly fire, usually has people firing at their own teammates, because it's there. This is no different. The game has PvP, so people use it (well most, some just run until you fall asleep). Stop going to islands where other ships are. Either wait it out or do what I do if you don't want to wait, get them out of there.
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