Pvp vs pve (private servers)

@xultanis-dragon I really don't get what is the big deal about having no progression in an eventual private server option though.

People keep saying they "Want to play the game, the way they want to play©" but get their knickers in a twist when it comes to progression. They say they want to chill with their friends, have fun and relax without getting Griefed and Trolled and attacked by Toxic people.

What is it people enjoy doing so in the game? Running back and forth at the dock, or doing voyages with their buddies, fighting AI, solving riddles and looking up the lore in tall tales and having a general good time with their friends? What does progression have to do with any of that? Hell, have the popup still show up for sold loot for a nice feelgood satisfaction dopamine boost without actually counting the gold.

If people are saying they want a safe space to play in private, but can't compromise with the risk/reward aspect, it just goes to show their intent isn't so much about the good times but the easy rewards.

@xultanis-dragon

I spoke the way I did for a very logical reason. If private servers are added it will not be the pvp crowd that utilizes it. The benefit to them is there will be less runners and red sea killers therefore enhancing the game for them allowing them to engage in more pvp and steal more loot. As the game stands right now I have seen multiple ships sink themselves just because I sailed too close. I know people that load in and immediately grab the shroud breaker just so they can hide and get away. Almost everyone has pulled the red sea card at some point. I spoke the way I did because the pvp side wont be utilizing the servers, the pve or pvpve will. I'm catering to the fact that although your not using it there is still a benefit for it being there.

As I said in a previous response. I stand firm as a pvpve player. Sometimes I hunt ships, sometimes I do tall tales etc.

So let me break it down more simply in hopes you dont nitpick my exact phrases to try and discredit me. It's ok to disagree with the topic at hand but your trying to take jabs at me :)

Pvp - less people whining, going into the red, server hopping, etc is a good thing..let em go. If they wanna pay to play a half version of the game let em go it just means more fun for you. It's not going to be enough of the population that it breaks the game, just limits it down to the actual pvpve crowd so there is more challenge and fun and less mindless chasing with no result.

Only reason I personally want to utilize such a thing is because I want to have epic ship battles with my friends and they are on the same server. Trying to haggle people to give us their boat takes too long lol

Also as I said I'm not giving pve a free pass either. I expect tweaks to the game on private servers so it's harder. If progression is allowed (yea yea so far that's not the case) then it cant be a free ride. Something needs to change to slow down progression and add a threat. I also expect a cost associated with this. No free servers. For such a thing to exist there needs to be a monthly charge.

So am I biased? I think pve should pay more to play the way they want? I want tweaks to pvp so they get credit for battles even if the enemy sails into the red? I'm trying to limit the hour long fruitless chases and bring ship battles back as the main source of fighting? Are those ideas wrong? They sound pretty fair to me?

@bloodybil

I cant think of a single game that offers zero progression and people play it lol if I played anything and made no progress at all on anything I'd be over it immediately. Slow the progression down, half it, charge to play, make it harder or any other method to make it difficult but zero progression is a waste. That's for streamers to make videos lol

@rowge-gaming said in Pvp vs pve (private servers):

@xx-mirth-xx "no progression" on private servers is speculation

That is backed up by the myriad of statements made by Rare on the subject. Just because YOU can't connect the dots doesn't make it any less likely of occurring. You are basically setting yourself up for disappointment, we are trying to temper your expectations as nearly every comment that Rare has made on the subject shows this is the direction that they are leaning.

It is more than speculation, it is called deductive reasoning.

@tubiansayne said in Pvp vs pve (private servers):

@xx-mirth-xx

That's interesting! 🤔 wouldnt no gold/rep/commendations make it completely pointless tho? Personally I'd take the no gold/rep part ha ha but missing all three makes everything in the game irrelivant? Why pay $50 a month to sail around in circles lol I'd fight my friends a few times and be over it

Yet if they were paid and offered progression, then the game would literally be Pay to Win at that point. That alone should tell you that this isn't happening with Rare's position on that point. From this we would deduce that if servers were rentable, then there would be no progression. Or that there would be free private servers that may allow progression, but this also flies in the face of many of Rare's quotes on the subject so not likely.

The only middle ground I can see on this (which also leads to more separation) would be to have it so that the characters are not transferable between private and public servers if they allowed progress. But if Rare did decide to go this route, I'd hope they at least disable achievements on private servers as it is definitely not fair to those people who earn them naturally.

@rowge-gaming said in Pvp vs pve (private servers):

@bloodybil said in Pvp vs pve (private servers):

Private servers without progression will be a great compromise that will be the best middle-ground to everybody. A way for lazybeards to enjoy the story and the game without having to experience their crippling fear of other players, while giving them an incentive and a carrot on a stick to lure them into going out a tiny bit of their comfort zone to earn rewards, and having them interact with the regular player pool and be part of the ecosystem that the game is based on.

Are you really afraid there won't be incentive enough for new players to join your server, or are you more concerned you'll be matched more with aggressive PvPers and your game won't be as easy anymore?

LOL, pot meet kettle. Sort of hypocritical trying to tell someone else wanting to preserve the current balance that they want an easier game when you are literally asking for and defending the same thing by changing the base tenets of the game.

@tubiansayne said in Pvp vs pve (private servers):

@bloodybil

I cant think of a single game that offers zero progression and people play it lol if I played anything and made no progress at all on anything I'd be over it immediately. Slow the progression down, half it, charge to play, make it harder or any other method to make it difficult but zero progression is a waste. That's for streamers to make videos lol

LOL, Quake III Arena, Quake 4, Unreal Tournament (take your pick), Halo CE, Call of Duty 1, Call of Duty 2, Star Wars Battlefront (the original, not the EA one)...shall I continue? None of these classic games have any progression linked to multiplayer and are still popular and played to this day. Persistent progression is a fairly recent addition to online games, and in some aspects the downfall of many - replacing actual fun gameplay with a hamster wheel to keep people addicted/playing.

Edit: The LOL was just that, not a reference to League of Legends. Wanted to clarify that.

@dlchief58 said in Pvp vs pve (private servers):

@tubiansayne said in Pvp vs pve (private servers):

@bloodybil

I cant think of a single game that offers zero progression and people play it lol if I played anything and made no progress at all on anything I'd be over it immediately. Slow the progression down, half it, charge to play, make it harder or any other method to make it difficult but zero progression is a waste. That's for streamers to make videos lol

LOL, Quake III Arena, Quake 4, Unreal Tournament (take your pick), Halo CE, Call of Duty 1, Call of Duty 2, Star Wars Battlefront (the original, not the EA one)...shall I continue? None of these classic games have any progression linked to multiplayer and are still popular and played to this day. Persistent progression is a fairly recent addition to online games, and in some aspects the downfall of many - replacing actual fun gameplay with a hamster wheel to keep people addicted/playing.

Edit: The LOL was just that, not a reference to League of Legends. Wanted to clarify that.

Even Overwatch made change to their custom games. You know, a game where you have no progression outside of cosmetics?

Hi everyone,

When we introduced the Game Browser and new Custom Game features we were excited to allow players to earn experience playing the game in unique and different ways (hah, familiar?). We also knew that there was the potential for this system to be exploited but we wanted to give everyone the benefit of the doubt before becoming overly restrictive with the system. It’s very disappointing to us that players abused the system to gain experience while inactive. As some of you have noticed, Skirmish in Custom Game no longer rewards experience. Also, the AFK timer is now in place in Skirmish mode (in Custom Game only). This change is rolling out over a 24 hour period and should be live in all regions by the end of today.

We are not naïve to player behavior and motivation. When we put this feature live, we had an internal escalation plan for how to combat this behavior. Today marks the first steps on that path. And in a lot of ways it really makes me sad. The feature is so much cooler and better for everyone if we do not have to put draconic restrictions on it. To fast forward a bit, the end of the escalation plan will result in experience gain being turned off in Custom Game.

Looking at alliance servers, this does not really bode well for the possibility of facilitating farming even more.

@rowge-gaming said in Pvp vs pve (private servers):

"But we’re not going to crack down on people who are basically just playing the game in the way they want to play and finding the ways they want to do. You know, it’s not power progression. We’ve always said, “Play the game, be the pirate you want, play the game in the way you want to play,” and it feels a bit weird if we were to go, “Oh, not that way!”"

Are they cracking on alliance servers, something that is currently possible with the tools given to us? No. Will they give more tool to facilitate further and easier farming? I doubt it.

I don't know how anyone could read all that and then draw a "clear" conclusion one way or the other. You have a feeling (for whatever reason) that you don't want other people to be able to progress in a private server and so you see this interview the way you want to see it. Objectively reading that, there is no way to tell what they plan on, and this obsession with "it has to be no progression" is so weird.

Oh well, the obsession I find bizarre is the one of insisting on having a game turned upside down and go in a different direction than what it was advertised and developped for, instead of playing something you know you will enjoy 🤷‍♂️

@rowge-gaming said in Pvp vs pve (private servers):

@bloodybil said in Pvp vs pve (private servers):

@xultanis-dragon I really don't get what is the big deal about having no progression in an eventual private server option though.

I really don't get why you care if someone else progresses on their own. It literally has zero effect on you.

Except it does, though not directly. It cheapens the accomplishments that a player makes in the game if someone else can get the same thing by playing in safe mode with greatly reduced risks. So now that spiffy Pirate Legend outfit and Ghost livery are not as special if someone can safely grind to get the same items and they start appearing all over the place afterwards. It will alienate longtime players who actually completed the requirements to unlock whatever item under normal play conditions if some Johny Come Lately can cheese through on safe servers and get the same thing in less time, effort and most of all risk - something that already is a slight issue with some due to all the ways Rare has made the game more treasure enriched and added more ways to progress (as well as the black market to some extent).

It also would imbalance the in game economy more then it already is by having an easy/safe mode to unlock items alongside the base game. If progress was enabled in private servers, then Rare must make sure those characters and progress do not carry over into the main game - this is the only fair way to handle private servers IF any progress was enabled. However I am staunchly against any achievements being enabled in any private server (progress or not) - I see this as only a step above using console commands to unlock all achievements in the game. They need to protect the integrity of the achievement system if nothing else.

For someone who allegedly does not have a dog in this fight you sure are defending (poorly I might add) one particular side of the argument.

@rowge-gaming said in Pvp vs pve (private servers):

@bloodybil Can you please just explain why it bothers you so much that other people would do something that has literally no effect on you?

How does it not affect everyone? Instead of having a randomised pool of players of all kinds of play styles, moods, and intentions, it highly encourages to separate those in different silos instead of all coexisting together, and choosing your level of risk instead of living the adventure mode in a, dare I say, adventurous way?

Not to mention the balance getting affected, why would people take the risk to do high-end risky voyages in public if they get the same payout without any risk? No more athena heists or gilded voyages heists if people cower away in their bubble to do those.

Again, why are you so afraid of risk or to encounter other players in a multiplayer game?

So long as the PVE servers have no progression no problem.

Because PVE + Progression = Farming Server.
It also means Adventure = Extreme Hostility as people will only be there to PVP as they can grind loot in relative safety of a PVE server.

This would make SOT boring as you know the interaction of a ship is likely always hostile.

If you want PVE server but still want progression.
Then the simple answer is no.

If you really want PVE servers to play for fun and not farm then no progression wont be an issue for these people.

You cant sail the seas laden with loot that counts towards progression in an environment where pirates cant be pirates.

@rowge-gaming said in Pvp vs pve (private servers):

@bloodybil said in Pvp vs pve (private servers):

@rowge-gaming said in Pvp vs pve (private servers):

@bloodybil Can you please just explain why it bothers you so much that other people would do something that has literally no effect on you?

How does it not affect everyone? Instead of having a randomised pool of players of all kinds of play styles, moods, and intentions, it highly encourages to separate those in different silos instead of all coexisting together, and choosing your level of risk instead of living the adventure mode in a, dare I say, adventurous way?

Not to mention the balance getting affected, why would people take the risk to do high-end risky voyages in public if they get the same payout without any risk? No more athena heists or gilded voyages heists if people cower away in their bubble to do those.

Again, why are you so afraid of risk or to encounter other players in a multiplayer game?

I've said it so many times, I guess one more time won't hurt: I don't care if there are PvE servers or not, I like the game the way it is. I just don't care if other people want to play the game the way it is. I think you're too afraid the game might get too hard for you if the more "peaceful" players aren't in your server anymore and you have to play with more aggressive players.

And I have said so many times, I don't care if people play in their bubble, as long as they have to contribute to the ecosystem if they want to earn currency or commendations.

To me you still sound either terrified to face others, or lazy to have to look over your shoulder when playing.

@rowge-gaming said in Pvp vs pve (private servers):

@dlchief58 said in Pvp vs pve (private servers):

@rowge-gaming said in Pvp vs pve (private servers):

@bloodybil said in Pvp vs pve (private servers):

@xultanis-dragon I really don't get what is the big deal about having no progression in an eventual private server option though.

I really don't get why you care if someone else progresses on their own. It literally has zero effect on you.

Except it does, though not directly. It cheapens the accomplishments that a player makes in the game if someone else can get the same thing by playing in safe mode with greatly reduced risks. So now that spiffy Pirate Legend outfit and Ghost livery are not as special if someone can safely grind to get the same items and they start appearing all over the place afterwards. It will alienate longtime players who actually completed the requirements to unlock whatever item under normal play conditions if some Johny Come Lately can cheese through on safe servers and get the same thing in less time, effort and most of all risk - something that already is a slight issue with some due to all the ways Rare has made the game more treasure enriched and added more ways to progress (as well as the black market to some extent).

It also would imbalance the in game economy more then it already is by having an easy/safe mode to unlock items alongside the base game. If progress was enabled in private servers, then Rare must make sure those characters and progress do not carry over into the main game - this is the only fair way to handle private servers IF any progress was enabled. However I am staunchly against any achievements being enabled in any private server (progress or not) - I see this as only a step above using console commands to unlock all achievements in the game. They need to protect the integrity of the achievement system if nothing else.

For someone who allegedly does not have a dog in this fight you sure are defending (poorly I might add) one particular side of the argument.

You are also displaying unhealthy competition. It is all about obtaining validation and diminishing others. You should focus on making yourself happy and not worrying about others.

So instead of debating the VALID points I made, you attempt to belittle me and twist the meaning of what was written - LOL.

You couldn't be more wrong in this instance. Where do you get that it is about diminishing others? Is my having some cosmetic/title I EARNED in game somehow "diminishing" another player because they could not do the same under the same conditions? Oh my, that's rich - I never realized my Pirate Legend outfit was a symbol of oppression to those not there yet.

The game is all about the cosmetics and titles as rewards, how you earned them tells the story of your pirate's adventure. Safe mode/farming servers cheapens this as others can do the same thing with much less threat, thus less time, effort and skill. This reduces the value and uniqueness of many titles and cosmetics - what at one time took either skill, effort or perhaps just dedication now can be had relatively safely and easily. It is rewarding when a player sees a specific item you have and they want to know how you got it and you have a good story to tell them - that will all be lost with farming servers now the cosmetic/title is not as special because it can easily be cheesed and not as rare anymore. In effect you would be destroying one of the social aspects of the game by cheapening the road to rewards. It is a step above using console commands to unlock all achievements in the game and as much cheesing the system as using cheat codes.

Since you state you are fine with the game as is, then I suggest your take your own advice and "not worry about others" - let them fight for themselves instead of playing the contrarian. You seem to be coming from a place of entitlement, not neutral or sympathetic as you claim.

@rowge-gaming I don’t get the fuss either. Considering it’s just a game made to be enjoyed for x amount of time. Nobody will care about our commendations or cosmetics or how we got them years from now.

@bubah1z1

Dont assume anything lol I was playing arena all day today. Sunk a brig and ruined their tall tale the day before (didnt know about tall tale till they were sunk). I typically sink at least a ship a day recently non defensively. Sorry you hate the post, thanks for sharing your opinion :)

@xultanis-dragon

I see your point :) I'm not trying to divide anything I just think it would be neat to have a private server to good off in like minecraft where I could pay to host a realm and go on adventures with friends :P

But if it doesnt happen oh well! I'll still play as is! I have been for two years I wont stop now :P that's the great thing about suggestions. That's all they are! If it's a bad idea oh well no harm done!