@klutchxking518 so you dont spam m1/r2?
And you act like hit reg is not a problem.
Balance Weapons by Adding Back Knockback to Eye of Reach and Flintlock
@closinghare208 How is it buffed? And yes, this game is an FPS. You are locked in first person, you have first person shooting mechanics, you have PvP modes, etc. The core of the game is FPS, but the rest of the game stems out to be an Action-Adventure game. This game is not an mmorpg. If you want an mmorpg, you would have a bar filled with abilities, different characters, skills, etc. Its a much much different world from FPS.
@closinghare208 if it isn't and fps then why is it first person and have guns? It may not be intended to be exactly like a real fps like COD but the aspects of an fps are there.
@galactic-geek yes the range did indeed get nerfed but it somehow found its way back into the game. My original point is that they should nerf the cutlass swipe and buff the lunge that way it deters players from spamming too much.
@frx-odyssey I don't think the buff should come to the guns, I think the nerf should happen to the sword: Reintroduce the slow on a missed swing.
The sword fights became more dull as well after the removal of this, it would now be on the sword user to pick when to strike instead of just keeping their momentum while striking endlessly. It would help both sword on sword combat being more skill based and give gunners the ability to make more distance, as sword users cannot just do area denial in front of them at full speed.
Though we do both agree it has to do with the ability to create distance, I don't necessarily think that it should be a reward for hitting your shot with a gun, but rather a punishment for not hitting your swing on a sword.
@frx-odyssey said in Balance Weapons by Adding Back Knockback to Eye of Reach and Flintlock:
@galactic-geek yes the range did indeed get nerfed but it somehow found its way back into the game. My original point is that they should nerf the cutlass swipe and buff the lunge that way it deters players from spamming too much.
First of all, spamming with the cutlass is a myth - you get 3 cuts; that's it. The 3rd strike even causes knockback against a block. If you can't block, or get out of the way, then whose fault is that? Certainly not the game itself...
I have personally never liked the sword range nerf, so if what you say is true, then I'm happy about that. Unfortunately for you, my tests across multiple updates speak to the contrary.
The lunge works fine as is - it's the high risk, high reward option. If you're not willing to take on the risk, then don't use it. Of all the things I can do with the sword, the lunge is probably my least used, unless used outside of combat. IMO, if there's any buff that it needs, it's that the advanced lunge should be the standard, but even that may prove OP.
@closinghare208 My thought too. Hitting tiny targets across rolling seas from pitching decks is enough of an advantage. EoR doesn't need knock back.
@galactic-geek said in Balance Weapons by Adding Back Knockback to Eye of Reach and Flintlock:
@frx-odyssey said in Balance Weapons by Adding Back Knockback to Eye of Reach and Flintlock:
@galactic-geek yes the range did indeed get nerfed but it somehow found its way back into the game. My original point is that they should nerf the cutlass swipe and buff the lunge that way it deters players from spamming too much.
I have personally never liked the sword range nerf, so if what you say is true, then I'm happy about that. Unfortunately for you, my tests across multiple updates speak to the contrary.
As @FrX-Odyssey mentioned, the sword slash range was nerfed around FoTD patch (if I remember correctly) but has now once again become an issue. In the clip below if shoot the player twice then die to a sword slash that was very far away from me
https://streamable.com/we189d
here's a picture of the slash I died to in case the video is not clear enough :)
You do realize that network differences can cause a delay in what's actually happening versus what you're seeing, right? Just because you see your opponent that far away doesn't necessarily mean he actually is. A good connection doesn't guarantee anything either if your opponent's connection is significantly worse, creating the disparity between the 2 of you.
That's not a SoT issue; that's an online gaming issue.
If anything, I find it funny that you're trying to double-gun below decks with the worst possible weapon combination there is for that particular situation (of the 4 weapons available, you pick the 2 that have no knockback 🙄) - that's a great way to get yourself killed. You should have been using sword and blunder. That way, you get knockback, block, and can sword dodge through your opponent to cause confusion. Heck, you never even took time to eat. Furthermore, you were running a lot of straight lines, while your opponent was often moving to your side, away from your sight, and forcing you to turn. All in all, what I saw was you getting outplayed due to your own mistakes and self-imposed limitations.
Personally, I run sword and flintlock when boarding other ships due to its versatility. It might not be as good as sword/blunder combo, but it gives me the aforementioned block, sword dodge, and knockback - along with decent range and reload speed that can prove useful if I find myself at a distance or underwater.
@galactic-geek and you say there is no such thing as sword spamming yet the player in the video is doing just that. He is running around spamming sword and magazar can't do much since the sword range is too long. Also why are you attacking his play style? Is it because you see a problem with using two guns? There are many ways to go about nerfing sword spam such as decreasing the range OR (notice or) increasing the delay in between swipes. The big issue is that too many players these days just spam right click or right trigger with that weapon which is skill less. At launch Rare said they wanted PVP to involve skill yet they seem to be straying away from that.
Also I don't know why you are saying that the connection isn't a SoT issue when a lot of it probably has to do with SoT. The servers SoT is hosted on are notoriously sub mediocre. They are part of the reason hitreg is so poor (when you shoot someone but the shot doesn't do damage). So it is indeed also an issue with SoT.
@galactic-geek I 100% agree its an online gaming issue but it is much more prevalent in Sea of Thieves as the servers have very low tickrate.
You do realize that network differences can cause a delay in what's actually happening versus what you're seeing, right? Just because you see your opponent that far away doesn't necessarily mean he actually is. A good connection doesn't guarantee anything either if your opponent's connection is significantly worse, creating the disparity between the 2 of you.
Most online games now run at 60 hrtz servers, I am not sure how many hrtz SoT servers are on but I am sure it is less than 30 which is half of what most online video games have now. It would be great if rare upgraded the servers so there would be less issues like hitreg and slash range.
Funny how you attack my play style, I enjoy using Sniper Pistol and the fact that I shot him twice. I also find it funny you watch the clip and assume you know everything that was going on in that situation, I had sniper pistol equipped went for a board, how was I supposed to know I was gonna get hitregged and slashed from far away whilst bottom deck? I had no food which is why I did not take the time to eat, not like I can pull a banana out of my a**!
All in all mb what I saw was you getting outplayed due to your own mistakes
ah yes I knew I hitreg and server tickrate were going to get me killed, my bad for not seeing the future and adapting to the circumstances.
Not sure why you seem to attack the fact of the weapon combination I was using when the whole point of the video was to show the hitreg and slash range, seems like a desperate defense on your part but what do I know, I'm just the guy who coudn't predict the future :(
@magazar said in Balance Weapons by Adding Back Knockback to Eye of Reach and Flintlock:
@galactic-geek I 100% agree its an online gaming issue but it is much more prevalent in Sea of Thieves as the servers have very low tickrate.
You do realize that network differences can cause a delay in what's actually happening versus what you're seeing, right? Just because you see your opponent that far away doesn't necessarily mean he actually is. A good connection doesn't guarantee anything either if your opponent's connection is significantly worse, creating the disparity between the 2 of you.
Most online games now run at 60 hrtz servers, I am not sure how many hrtz SoT servers are on but I am sure it is less than 30 which is half of what most online video games have now. It would be great if rare upgraded the servers so there would be less issues like hitreg and slash range.
Funny how you attack my play style, I enjoy using Sniper Pistol and the fact that I shot him twice. I also find it funny you watch the clip and assume you know everything that was going on in that situation, I had sniper pistol equipped went for a board, how was I supposed to know I was gonna get hitregged and slashed from far away whilst bottom deck? I had no food which is why I did not take the time to eat, not like I can pull a banana out of my a**!
All in all mb what I saw was you getting outplayed due to your own mistakes
ah yes I knew I hitreg and server tickrate were going to get me killed, my bad for not seeing the future and adapting to the circumstances.
Not sure why you seem to attack the fact of the weapon combination I was using when the whole point of the video was to show the hitreg and slash range, seems like a desperate defense on your part but what do I know, I'm just the guy who coudn't predict the future :(
I wasn't attacking you; merely making observations and offering advice on how you could've done better by doing things differently. That's improving the community baseline, not belittling you. Try not to take things so personally - yout feelings are 1 of your own worst enemies.
Upgraded servers would be great for any game, but like you, I have no knowledge of this particular aspect, so I won't comment further on it.
As for the food, that's not something that I could discern from the video. Still, boarding without a full complement of food is what it looked like to me, which is generally not a good idea. If you did have food, and used it all up prior to the video, then you're wasting time not killing the other crew fast enough - it works if you're creating a distraction for your crew to pepper their ship with cannons, but I didn't see that happening in the clip either, so yet again, I'm forced to work with what I got, and what I know.
At least I'm trying to expand your knowledge, regardless of how you may feel about it. Many pirates would prefer to keep their advantages to themselves. I, however, believe that making you better in turn makes me better. In that way, I raise the skill ceiling of the community as a whole.
Upgraded servers would be great for any game, but like you, I have no knowledge of this particular aspect, so I won't comment further on it.
As for the food, that's not something that I could discern from the video.
same way you "have no knowledge of this particular aspect" it was ironic of you to comment on the food aspect.
Still, boarding without a full complement of food is what it looked like to me, which is generally not a good idea. If you did have food, and used it all up prior to the video, then you're wasting time not killing them fast enough - it works if you're creating a distraction for your crew to pepper their ship with cannons, but I didn't see that happening in the clip.
I did not have food, I killed 2 of them, would have killed the 3rd if it wasn't for hitreg. The 4th player was on my boat and my teammate killed him. I appreciate the naval advice.
@frx-odyssey said in Balance Weapons by Adding Back Knockback to Eye of Reach and Flintlock:
@galactic-geek and you say there is no such thing as sword spamming yet the player in the video is doing just that. He is running around spamming sword and magazar can't do much since the sword range is too long. Also why are you attacking his play style? Is it because you see a problem with using two guns? There are many ways to go about nerfing sword spam such as decreasing the range OR (notice or) increasing the delay in between swipes. The big issue is that too many players these days just spam right click or right trigger with that weapon which is skill less. At launch Rare said they wanted PVP to involve skill yet they seem to be straying away from that.
I would really like to know what you think sword combat is going to look like if it's "not spam". Moving forward and swinging is the very basic form of melee combat. The counter to that is blocking or running away. If you're out of range, sword attacks don't do any damage.
The reason damage was increased was to lower the TTK for the sword, because under the previous setting the difference between the time it took to kill someone with the sword vs hitting two shots was way too big of a spread. Increasing the time between swings is not going to change "spam" at all since players who spam at the current rate are just going to "spam" at the slower rate but the weapon itself will be much less effective - essentially going back to being near useless outside of dolphin lunge utility.
If the damage is reduced again, they're going to need to add something else. The other options are going to be increasing the player stun time again, adding a shooting/reloading interrupt, or some other form of increasing the gun user's TTK so that the sword user can finish them off. All of these options lead to double gun players complaining about something so I don't really see what would be accomplished.
The bottom line is if you are in melee range you should either have melee yourself to counteract it, use a blunderbuss to push them away or kill them, or just be resigned to the fact that you picked the non-optimal loadout for that encounter.
@galactic-geek
Reading the posts you made gave me a migraine. In all the posts I read from you I'm not sure if there was a single point you made that was valid. You pretend like you know what is best for the PVP and act like you are skilled with a sword.Why you are wrong? Well, there isn't too much more to say other than what others have tried explaining to you. Unfourtnaly you refuse to have common sense and listen to what others are saying. I will repeat them in my own words in hopes this helps you understand.
You claim that sword is balanced or not overpowered in any way, yet it has a 360-degree radius of range and according to you "3-5 in-game feet" in length(the range is moslty an issue only because of how much it varies, Ex: a lot of the time I get slashed from 8+ feet away). On top of that huge range, a player can practically sprint while slashing mindlessly towards an opponent.
TESTING/Comparing sword and DG
-I have a lot of experience between both sword and double gun. Before rare decided to ruin almost all the skill cap with the sword I used to main it.How they ruined the skill cap with a sword? Rare removed almost every advanced technique players had created. These had been developed and almost perfected by many people and used in countless numbers of duels. After these had been removed and even sword lunge reset no longer existed the main and only thing sword players do now is slash spam. (although that's what the average player always did).
Now to shoot down what many people might be saying in response to the paragraph above. Yes, I have tried sword this update and the update right before this one and I can say confidently my time I spent fighting(experienced players in both arena and adventure) was a lot easier with a sword than it ever was with DG. One day(BEFORE sword buff btw) I went out of my way to only use slashes against players and was easily able to beat every person I fought including some Dgers I ran into. I even have a clip of me killing someone with all 5 slashes without even looking at them I was just mindlessly swinging away.
If all that I said doesn't tell you or anyone else anything about how easy sword is then I don't know what will. I haven't even gotten started on how much hit reg leaves double gunners at a disadvantage compared to a sword user.
Taking you up on your offer
-Sword used to require a lot more skill to acutally be good at and I mean actually good. I don't mean what you or most of the community considered to be good. What I'm getting at here is referring to what you said in one of the posts you made."The cutlass does require skill - 95% of pirates that I've encountered not only lack said skill, but don't even fully grasp its full capabilities. I'd be happy to enlighten those who ask." I believe those had been your exact words. So if you are so inclined, please allow us to have a sword duel and see if you can "enlighten" me.
Sword lunge should do 75 damage for how long the penalty is for missing. If a gun has a chance to kill you in 2 shots than so should a sword.
Sword block needs to be improved or just actually work as soon as I press the button
And I would just very slightly reduce the swords swiping arc, it can feel like it can attack from almost any angle right now.
@vanccel said in Balance Weapons by Adding Back Knockback to Eye of Reach and Flintlock:
@galactic-geek
Reading the posts you made gave me a migraine.Take a break then. 😉
In all the posts I read from you I'm not sure if there was a single point you made that was valid.
Every point is valid - I rely on facts and introduce doubt to challenge others misguided beliefs.
You pretend like you know what is best for the PVP and act like you are skilled with a sword.
I am skilled with a sword. That said, I never claimed to be better, only more knowledgeable - even I am still prone to making mistakes in the moment.
Why you are wrong?
I am not wrong.
You claim that sword is balanced or not overpowered in any way, yet it has a 360-degree radius of range
You are wrong; it does not reach 360° unless you are spinning in place as you swing. Even then, I don't think it really does, because the swing would complete long before you completed the 360° turn.
and according to you "3-5 in-game feet" in length(the range is moslty an issue only because of how much it varies, Ex: a lot of the time I get slashed from 8+ feet away). On top of that huge range, a player can practically sprint while slashing mindlessly towards an opponent.
As for the range, I introduced doubt, which you have yet to disprove. Even if it is the servers, that makes it a server issue, not a sword issue - in essence, you'd be asking to fix the wrong thing.
And again, you're wrong - you can't sprint while slashing, because your cutlass is automatically stowed when you sprint.
-I have a lot of experience between both sword and double gun. Before rare decided to ruin almost all the skill cap with the sword I used to main it.
The level of skill regarding the cutlass has barely changed since the release of the game. Most of the advanced strategies and mechanics that were balanced and didn't rely on cheap animation or cooldown canceling are still there.
How they ruined the skill cap with a sword? Rare removed almost every advanced technique players had created.
No they didn't. As I said, many are still there. And they weren't created; they were discovered.
These had been developed and almost perfected by many people and used in countless numbers of duels.
They were exploits that broke the balance of the game because they weren't easily accessible to all pirates. That's an imbalance in of itself.
After these had been removed and even sword lunge reset no longer existed
The sword lunge reset was bypassed by pirates - again breaking the system in place that was intended by the devs to preserve balance.
the main and only thing sword players do now is slash spam.
Again, spam is a myth. 3 strikes; that's it.
Now to shoot down what many people might be saying in response to the paragraph above. Yes, I have tried sword this update and the update right before this one and I can say confidently my time I spent fighting(experienced players in both arena and adventure) was a lot easier with a sword than it ever was with DG.
Well of course - additional damage is a tremendous buff.
One day(BEFORE sword buff btw) I went out of my way to only use slashes against players and was easily able to beat every person I fought including some Dgers I ran into. I even have a clip of me killing someone with all 5 slashes without even looking at them I was just mindlessly swinging away.
That's because the sword's reach isn't just in front of you; it's purposefully designed that way to give sword users an edge against gunmen - besides, only dead men charge right into their own firing squad. It promotes strategy and smart use of the sword. I'm glad to see you learning how to use it in smarter ways.
If all that I said doesn't tell you or anyone else anything about how easy sword is then I don't know what will.
Using the sword has always been easy - you get close and swing to cut or jab to stab with the pointy end. Mastering it, however is a different matter entirely.
I haven't even gotten started on how much hit reg leaves double gunners at a disadvantage compared to a sword user.
Again, not a sword, or even weapons issue. That's a bug or network issue.
Taking you up on your offer
-Sword used to require a lot more skill to acutally be good atNo, it's about the same actually. Everything else was just an exploit.
and I mean actually good. I don't mean what you or most of the community considered to be good. What I'm getting at here is referring to what you said in one of the posts you made.
"The cutlass does require skill - 95% of pirates that I've encountered not only lack said skill, but don't even fully grasp its full capabilities. I'd be happy to enlighten those who ask." I believe those had been your exact words. So if you are so inclined, please allow us to have a sword duel and see if you can "enlighten" me.
There's a difference between knowledge and skill. Having 1 doesn't necessarily mean that you have the other. Having both, for this reason, is ideal. A duel will allow me to show you various mechanics and tactics that I referred to, but despite that, I might still lose due to various mistakes. I would be happy to enlighten you in person, but a duel really only proves skill and, simply put, has too many variables for proper testing.
If you want to meet up and compare tests and results, however, and have a friendly and respectful debate, then I'm all for that.
Regardless, server issues along with network discrepancies, will always be an ongoing issue with online play and will adversely affect our time together.
@galactic-geek I don’t know how you can sit here and try and lecture a conquest member about the sword. Vanccel has a ton of knowledge for both double gunning and swording. Back before the sword was nerfed, people like Vanccel were at the top of combat for swords. I know Vanccel has a lot more knowledge on the subject of swords, double gunning, and pvp in general so I think it would be wise to listen to him instead of trying to disprove him for whatever point you’re trying to get across.
@sherpa725 If you read @Galactic-Geek previous posts, you would know what he is talking about.
@Galactic-Geek isn't lecturing; he is enlightening us about swords. The sword is better now than it was before. The buff brings it in line with the blunderbuss and the EoR, and I have had a blast using the sword/flintlock combo. I have killed everyone that I come across with it. Maybe if the posters that don't like the sword actually got better at using the sword and quit double-gunning, then maybe there would be less posts about the sword. If you come across someone with a sword flintlock, then make sure that you have a spot to 'cover' yourself, such as barrels, brig, trees, masts, etc. Hit them once with a flintlock/sniper shot, and then emerge to finish them off while they are eating. This tactic has worked many times in game for me. The only times I die is when there is a full crew who knows what they are doing.@toastyrar said in Balance Weapons by Adding Back Knockback to Eye of Reach and Flintlock:
@galactic-geek how is spam a myth? almost every person who uses a sword will walk around clicking m1 or RT over and over again. therefore spamming it. Its not a myth it is very real. It takes no skill and it can kill people.
Spam means something that keeps happening - you get 3 swings before their attacks stop happening, which gives you an opening.
Almost everyone isn't everyone, and fits in with my previous statement regarding how 95% of pirates don't fully understand.
Even if they keep repeating the combo, it's not going to do them any good unless they get close to you or you fail to get away from them.
You're right that it doesn't take much skill to perform the combo repeatedly, but it only kills pirates that are either bad at combat, or that make mistakes.
@sherpa725 Shooting through walls is such a fun strategy - yet another thing a lot of pirates don't know about.
@toastyrar said in Balance Weapons by Adding Back Knockback to Eye of Reach and Flintlock:
@galactic-geek no you get 1 swing if your attack doesn't hit and then if it doesn't hit most players walk around hitting m1 or RT until it hits you. and by 95% of people don't fully under stand, do you mean sword and how it works? if so then easily 99% of players don't use sword right.
Know your effective range - if they're not in it, don't bother.
99%? Using 2 firearms may be popular, but it's nowhere near that popular. At least I can validate my numbers - when I said 95%, I also said "of pirates that I have encountered" - I would never do something as ridiculous as trying to quantify the entire pirate-base, when there's no feasible way to actually do that unless you're a part of Rare's analytics team.
@drolllettuce410 said in Balance Weapons by Adding Back Knockback to Eye of Reach and Flintlock:
The people who tink sword is op are people on xbox/controllers. Cant turn around in time to see the or block the hits.
I'm on Xbox with a controller, and I don't think that it's OP at all. Granted, my sensitivity settings are maxed out, my controller is an Elite v2, I use an external SSD to maximize load times with my Xbox One X and 4K TV to maximize visibility, my SoT experience extends to closed alpha, my Xbox experience extends back 13+ years, my fighting (game) experience extends 20+ years and includes multiple competitive tournaments and top-100 worldwide rankings, and I am well-versed in over 15+ years of shooting (games) strategy, tactics, teamwork, and coordination, and my gaming experience overall is well over 30+ years from every genre imaginable and thousands of video games. The only thing that slows me down is my network speed and age.
But I digress. Who's counting? 😅
@frx-odyssey said in Balance Weapons by Adding Back Knockback to Eye of Reach and Flintlock:
@closinghare208 if it isn't and fps then why is it first person and have guns? It may not be intended to be exactly like a real fps like COD but the aspects of an fps are there.
it's not supposed to be though
@galactic-geek
Wow. You know somehow I'm not surprised by the response I got from you. So many things you said here are just straight wrong and I could go on and write another essay to you(i still might if I get around to it) but for now I'm going to let the rest of the community flame you for the stupidity that is the response above.-Till i wake up an hour early again, goodbye
@galactic-geek nothing is wrong with being proud of your own accomplishments. The problem is the way you present yourself, stand up for unskillful metas, and refuse to even acknowledge the plights that double gunners have. Instead of trying to come with a viable solution, you just say something along the lines of “get good” or “that’s a server issue.” Let me guess, if double gunners started complaining about servers, you’d start saying that they’re perfectly fine and hitreg is not broken?
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