Forcing players to play for 3 hours is wrong

@og-shizniticus said in Forcing players to play for 3 hours is wrong:

Father of 2 here, love the game, but voyages taking 3 hours and no way to save progress is a little ridiculous. At least do game saves after a chapter so i can pick up were we left off the day before.

Hello there. First of all, nobody is twisting your arm or forcing you to play no matter for how long. Secondly, if it takes you 3 hours on any kind of voyage, you are doing something wrong. Athena's are longer but still, even those shouldn't take that long. Regular voyages are always a reasonable length and can be completed fast enough, even if you ad up megs and ghost ships.

Maybe playing with a crew would help you accelerate things up?

@cyrus-jusi said in Forcing players to play for 3 hours is wrong:

I really do think that if they would have made this a proper MMO type game with a PVE progression instead of a no-progression PVP game it could have really taken off, but there are way too many thing wrong with this game that will quickly turn most gamers off of it. We'll see how it develops over time I guess.

This game is not an MMO and was never intended to be. It's a different and refreshing kind of game blending both PVE and PVP. Apparently the playerbase keeps growing and is at its highest so I guess gamers don't quite appear to be turned off by it.

@cyrus-jusi said in Forcing players to play for 3 hours is wrong:

@BloodyBil
I know that the game was not intended to be a full fledged MMO, I was just saying the game engine is awesome (one of the best I have seen in a long time) and if they would have gone that direction I really think it could have caught on big time. And I still do not think it is too late to make some moves in that direction.

Right now it is a niche PVP game, if you like that then you are happy, but as you can see from the amount of PVE posts in the forum MANY folks want that. I obviously do not have any actual numbers but just from watching the forum I looks to me that the number of folks requesting save states, progression of some sort, PVE/private servers, safe zones and the like out number the folks who continue to say this is the wrong direction for the game and that it should never change. And that is the folks who like the game enough to post something, the majority are just going to say "this is stupid" and move on.

That's the thing, forum posts can be misleading and are not the way to measure opinion on a topic like that. For the people that complain in favor of PVE, a vast majority are new players that don't have yet have a good grasp of the game and get wrecked in solo.

I've seen posts about people going from not liking PVP, to loving it after playing with friends and practicing. Everyone's opinion should be heard, I simply feel like some people need more time in the game before judging what is balanced and what is not, what should be changed and what should remain as is.

You mention "And that is the folks who like the game enough to post something, the majority are just going to say "this is stupid" and move on.", but the same thing can be said on the other side. What about the people that don't say anything because they like the current state of the game and have nothing to complain about? For every 10 players that complain about PVP, there could be 100 that enjoy it that we don't hear about? There could be 1000 that don't for all I know, but assuming what people want and don't want based on forum posts don't mean much.

I actually think that Rare released this too soon, all the press I saw on the game at launch pretty much falls in the same mind set that I have for the game now, even in its current state. That it is REALLY fun to play at first, then what. I am sorry, but PVP to just kill other folks or to steal a chest offers no reward other than more gold. Wee, more gold, wee I can buy more cosmetic flags and guns, what fun....

'Then what' Well this game is pretty much a sandbox game, you have the tools and you make your own fun. If you don't have fun with it past the first experience, maybe the game isn't your style? I was also a bit unconvinced about the longevity and replayability at first, but even after a year, I still have a blast playing and it doesn't feel like a grind or a chore because it's the variety of experiences that make the game different each session. It's weird how technically I am always doing the same things in the game, yet it feels different because everything is so unpredictable. Hard to describe, and english also isn't my main language so words escape me a bit hehe.

And as for PVP, it's not about the gold and cosmetics, it's the heart-pounding moments of confrontation, chasing and fighting people. It's those encounters that makes the game different each time. Some days the sea is quiet and you do your voyages in peace, some other days you end up chasing and sinking a ship, while another one comes towards you while you fish up the loot and meg emerges, kraken sinks you while you are being chased and you escape in rowboat, without having planned any of that.

If they would have released this game with a legitimate PVE quest line, the folks (like myself) would be much more willing to overlook the PVP play (up to a point). And saying things like "saves in this games are not possible" is just foolish, of course it is possible, pretty much all multiplayer games do this now and it is nothing more than isolating the quest data for each player and storing its state at logout.

During streams they mentioned a while ago they wanted to add more depth to voyages, I am sure adding more PVE in the future will balance things out more and give more incentive to quest. Personally adding both more PVE and PVP elements can only add more interest to the game.

As for the saving debacle, it's not only about is it possible to do it but should it be? This game is designed for sessions of play. You can either play for a short time or a long time, it's up to you. Finishing a voyage (besides athena) doesn't really change much, you can cash in at any time and you can be done whenever you like. You choose the length of your session, but saving doesn't really make much sense since everyone in every session starts at the same point, everyone equal.

I don't know why I keep posting things like this, probably because I see this games potential going to waste. Just today I had a really fun solo treasure chest run, took about an hour and I had a blast. But, I do not see the incentive to keep up the "rinse and repeat" game play, cause all I did was get some more gold and little experience (which is pretty meaningless too). I just want there to be more reason to want to come back for more, and the Arena is most definitely not going to be that reason...

But again, if you see this game as a grind for gold and rep, I can understand how one can get bored.

That's exactly the point about PVE vs PVP, you said you did your voyage, uninterrupted, and got bored of the rinse and repeat. Without the blend of PVPVE that comes and spice the game, imagine how people would get bored without player threats? You have seen it for yourself.

Doing a voyage, and having all kinds of PVP shenanigans happening that breaks the monotony is what makes this game great and interesting. Doing a fort uncontested is boring as hell, but defending it against 2-3 different ships, alliancing with one to take the others, then doing a ghost fleet, meg, fending off other crews, avoiding a betrayal, sailing in the sunset and sell your loot that's what the devs keep talking about the proverbial voyage being more interesting than the destination. It's not about the gold you acquire, but the stories you make.

Whenever I talk about SOT to people that don't play, I turn into an old sailor that tells crazy stories, especially if the mates I do play with are there lol "Remember that time when we did so and so, then this happened and then that... man was that crazy or what?" In a year of gameplay, I could tell stories all day... and those good memories are way more precious than a nice hat or a shiny sail :)

@og-shizniticus oh damn thats crazy, rare went to your house, tied you up and forced you to play for 3 hours. that is absolutly insane i cant believe it.

@og-shizniticus ummmm i dont get why this is something that people mention. why dont you just buy another voyage next time you log on and continue with that one. whats the difference? i get that there are commendations for completing voyages, but its not like you cant get voyages that are only one chest long.

A lot of people ask for saving a long voyage. Not saving the boat or anything on the server but only the voyage progress like if you finished half a athena and got 4 islands left you pick up the voyage and continue on a new server after work.
I actually understand this request i would take a hour pauze to walk the dog do some fitness whatever..
But i guess its lame if a pirate is hunting you and you can just change server so i dunno how it could work..

@ruigtand-nl said in Forcing players to play for 3 hours is wrong:

A lot of people ask for saving a long voyage. Not saving the boat or anything on the server but only the voyage progress like if you finished half a athena and got 4 islands left you pick up the voyage and continue on a new server after work.
I actually understand this request i would take a hour pauze to walk the dog do some fitness whatever..

Many session-based multiplayer games sessions or matches take between 30min to 1h nowadays, that's pretty much the length of voyages in SOT. It's not really unreasonable as a session duration for this kind of adventure game.

A lot of people that ask for saving voyages are talking about athena's voyages especially. The thing is, you would expect that athena's quests should be more challenging than the regular faction's voyages right? But they are not really, when you look map by map, it's the same exact thing. There isn't more chests to dig, there isn't more skeleton captain than there usually are on islands, not any more cargo. The only thing that makes it more challenging is the length, you gotta do it in one sitting to get the final chest. The athena's chest is the cherry on top, your reward for going through the whole quest. Pausing midway and resuming later doesn't make any more sense than pausing a running marathon. Where is the challenge if you can resume a couple meters from the finish line?

But i guess its lame if a pirate is hunting you and you can just change server so i dunno how it could work..

Yup, no more athena chests steals with this option, the moment someone thinks another crew knows they are doing an athena voyage and are on to them, they will pack up and leave. Why take the risk of being chased and robbed if you can just save, then cycle through servers until you find a peaceful one to do your last map?

@og-shizniticus

The problem with this is that we lose out on some interesting situations. Let’s say that I’ve found a ship working on an Athena’s Fortune voyage, and they’re almost at the point to dig up the chest. I’m keeping tabs trying to pull off the ultimate heist. This situation really could be something interesting once I move in to steal the loot and the other player makes their move to defend their loot... oh but wait, now they’ll just save the voyage and move on to a different server where they won’t be bothered by me...

To me, saving voyages just doesn’t seem right because of how the function can be abused for players just to avoid challenging situations.

Most voyages can be completed in half an hour. An Athena can usually be completed in an hour and a half.

I think scaling just needs to work better.

The current reapers run voyages solo take a huge amount of time unless you tap and go.

Just scale things down, like the game does everywhere else (digging chests, npc strength etc).

Solo Athenas? Reduce the reward, adjust the time effort requirment. Simple.

In a platform where, (and I want to stress this point) an un-founded disconnect can cost you your entire sessions "worth". The time vs reward should be reasonable, that is to say, in my opinion. NOTHING should take longer than 1 hour. Scaling with crew size.

Persistence would be cool however. Would be awesome to log off with a stocked ship and log back in, where you logged off, with your current Voyage in play (timed voyages such as cargo runs etc excluded)

@gianni001 said in Forcing players to play for 3 hours is wrong:

I think scaling just needs to work better.

The current reapers run voyages solo take a huge amount of time unless you tap and go.

Just scale things down, like the game does everywhere else (digging chests, npc strength etc).

Solo Athenas? Reduce the reward, adjust the time effort requirment. Simple.

I'm sure we will see at some point athena mercenary voyages that will take less time and will give less rep, I think giving the choice of voyages to people is better than scaling IMO.

In a platform where, (and I want to stress this point) an un-founded disconnect can cost you your entire sessions "worth". The time vs reward should be reasonable, that is to say, in my opinion. NOTHING should take longer than 1 hour. Scaling with crew size.

I think disconnect issues should be prevented by giving you a grace period to rejoin your game in case the situation arise. Nothing really takes much more than 1 hour in terms of voyage, unless unplanned things like PVP encounters comes in play, which is part of the game.

Persistence would be cool however. Would be awesome to log off with a stocked ship and log back in, where you logged off, with your current Voyage in play (timed voyages such as cargo runs etc excluded)

I disagree on that point, everyone starts their session equally, and voyages are short enough to be completed as is. If not, you have the option to sell what you have so far and redo another full voyage at another time.

It doesn't really matter much for regular voyages: suppose you potentially have a total of 15 chests all chapters included (just an example), even if you have 5 remaining chests and you need to leave the game, just sell and start another fresh voyage next time, you aren't technically missing out on anything.

For athena's though, saving could be abused by just avoiding danger if people are trying to get your chest. Another crew potentially have spies at outposts or are waiting for me to dig up my treasure? No problem, I save, leave, find a peaceful and quiet server to drop my voyage again to get my last chest, voila!

@lucky-monkee This is a non-argument for a fair number of people out there who don't like doing chores but like to play the game. Doing speedruns is fine for everyone who likes it but this is not how the game is meant to be played.

@hans42 The shovel hits won't have that much impact. What they could do is either reduce the amount of chapters/maps per voyage or preferably give us the option to choose between short/medium/long voyages including a short Athena voyage (e.g. only 1 map per type but in turn only 50% gold and rep for the chest of legends)

Increasing ship speed will have some major impact on gameplay in general, starting with simple things like the time it takes for ships to get from "barely visible at the horizon" to "too late to react". Whether it's desirable or not is a different topic, but making ships faster is not just a trivial decision.

This is a game played by you're choice. No one is forcing you to play anything...atleast i hope not...

Sorry you got so many negative replies mate. Contrary to some comments Sea of Thieves is not a PvP game. There is just a very loud crowd who want it be only that way, even to the point of being obnoxious, insulting, and bullying. It is not a strictly a PvE game either. Unlike the other side of the doubloon though, Sea of Thieves is at its core more PvE than PvP.

The heart and soul of the game is the open world around you. The life in the game is what we as players breathe into it in the style we choose to play our pirates. Interacting with other players can impact that life in many different ways, both positively and negatively. More often than not, it can be more of the later unfortunately. There has been a constant undercurrent that this game is all about PvP only. That is true. This point of view though has tilted the experience often too much to a very narrow way to sail and play this game. It is why you got so many negative reponses.

Most voyages do not need to be saved. Voyages with multiple chapters later in the game could easily be saved at the point of a completion of a chapter. With the story based revamp coming to voyages it might very well need the option for the story to be saved in intervals. So the story can be put down and continue telling it when one sails again later.

Happy sailing mate! Hope you find better experiences on the sea, here in the forums, and time to be more pirate as you are being a Dad.

@og-shizniticus
Like others have stated, I think the ability to save voyage progress could be abused too easily. Although, I do understand your sentiment, especially when it comes to voyages with chapters. You just don't know how many chapters you are going to get and some of them go on and on and on.

I think some of this could be mitigated by allowing higher level pirates to buy lower level voyages. For Athena's, they could offer mini-Athena's with half the islands and half the gold/rep as @Crimsonraziel suggested.

Also, don't listen to anyone who tells you that you're playing the game wrong or that a specific voyage should take a specific amount of time. If the game can be made more accessible without disrupting the balance or being exploitable, it should be.