A letter to, and request of, the Community

  • I hope you're prepared for a long post without a tl;dr, because that's not my style. If you want to read, read. If you don't, don't. No one is making you do anything. Anyway, to get to my post.

    I remember when I first came to these forums. It was an early, early, morning just after I’d received an invitation to play-test the alpha. I expected it to be like all the other video-game forums I’d visited over the years, not a place of discussion but a place of complaining. Low and behold, I witnessed almost none of that. Puts on rose-tinted glasses

    I witnessed a large amount of posts that were constructive. People helping each other, people bouncing ideas off each other, people open to conversation, open to discussing things that skirt the edge of what would “fit” in this game. It was a vastly different place. Seeing that alone was making me excited for the game, a community unlike other communities.

    In the back of my mind I always thought about how that would change as the game grew, as the community grew. I hoped that it would maintain that “core”; that friendliness and respectfulness that once dominated. And that people would soon learn “our way” of doing a community forum. But, in the back of my mind the prevailing thought was that it wouldn’t turn out the way I would hope.

    And, ofcourse, things don’t always turn out the way you hope. Slowly I saw the forums turn in to a forum just like all the other forums; filled with people complaining that their vision of the game isn’t being realized and that unless they change it according to their wishes the game will "fail".

    Slowly but surely, I stopped posting less and less and started lurking more. I was sad to see that our Community Pirate Code, in bright green letters above this post, seemed all but forgotten. A code that RARE employees now have to constantly remind people of, something which didn't use to be the case. Seeing a moderator step in used to be a rarity.

    The forums changed into the very thing that made me weary of visiting forums in the first place. It became one of those forums, a forum filled with people complaining/demanding that the game should fit their vision rather than RARE’s vision. Filled with people who are so stuck in their own narrative, they can’t think outside it and try to understand what RARE is trying to accomplish.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying everyone should love the game or be continuously infatuated by it. But there is a very large difference between constructive feedback and demanding/complaining about things that have very clearly never been part of RARE’s vision for this game.

    That, to me, is frustrating. Why some people just “get it” and why others can’t seem to let their ideas that clearly don’t belong in this game go. It’s a question I often ponder; Why some people, rather than enjoying Sea of Thieves for what it is, continuously waste their energy trying to make it into something it never wants to, or ever will, be.

    Giving constructive feedback is great, but those posts seem to be few and far in-between. Instead there’s players who constantly try to push the same feedback point, a point that is in clear contradiction with the vision for Sea of Thieves, over and over again. Players who make blanket statements without any reasonable thought behind them.

    Before you start calling me a fan-boy, a care-bear, or whatever realize that I don’t think Sea of Thieves is perfect. If it was perfect I wouldn’t have lost my interest playing the game. I can already feel people jumping at that statement but hold your horses.

    I “burned out”. For the first time in 8 months, when I woke up yesterday I really didn't want to play Sea of Thieves. I didn't want to go on an adventure, explore the sea, swim for days, stowaway on other ships or any of the nonsense that make this game amusing to me. But, is that such a bad thing?

    I don’t think it is, you know why? Because Sea of Thieves will be waiting for me when I return. I won’t be behind my friends who have progressed to Pirate Legend. Nor will I be behind in the most elite equipment that is needed to do the higher “level” content. No, I’ll be able to jump in with one of my friends and play like nothing has changed. And yet, things will have changed.

    When I decide to return new things will have been added, mechanics that add to the game. Mechanics that will hopefully add some new incentives to try a different approach. Perhaps a mechanic that will decrease the “Kill on Sight” mentality that some feel dominates this game.

    Mechanics that make the journey to Pirate Legend less tedious and feel less like the insurmountable “grind” that it feels like. That “games as a service” will ensure that even if I take a break for a while, this game will be waiting for me with new things to explore.

    And that is my request to all the players who continue to stick around and continue to point out their frustrations with Sea of Thieves falling short of their expectations. Take a break. Go do something else with your life. Stop wasting your energy trying to change this game into something it isn’t. Instead, go play a game you do enjoy. Play that game until you feel ready to come back. Until, if at all, you feel the urge to come back to Sea of Thieves.

    The urge to sail the sea, to brave the storms, to fight (a slightly disappointing fight) Karen. You don’t owe this game anything, you don’t owe this community anything. If all you can think of when you think of Sea of Thieves is “missed opportunity”, I really recommend you take a break.

    Because I assure you, that type of mentality is only sucking energy out of you. It’s only going to make you feel like you’re continuously wasting your time. It's going to make you like the game less and less. And you’re never going to climb out of that hole you dug for yourself, because you are unable to step outside of that mental cage of negativity you built for yourself. Take a break, climb out that hole, break that cage, and go dance in a field of flowers.

    My request to the people that stick around, let us try to make the forums like it once was.

    Actually, no. Let's make it better, with a more diverse array of opinions. A place of open, honest, respectful discussion. A place where we can discuss without immediately slamming down any idea that contradicts our, interpreted, vision of the game. And yet, a place where we also try to work with RARE’s vision for the game. A place where we can compromise and openly discuss without needing to retort to namecalling, or disrespectful behaviour.

    And that’s not just aimed at the people who constantly “complain” or whose views I disagree with. This is just as much the case for the players who I know are super passionate about this game, and yet are unable to consider any opinion other than their own opinion on what the game is or should be. We all have a part to play. “Fanboys” and “Haters” alike.

    I truly believe that if we want to make Sea of Thieves into the best game it can possibly be, a big step in the right direction would be to try and bring back the forums of old and improve upon it. To try and recreate a forum where reasonable discussion can be held, where players help one another rather than laughing in each other’s faces for not knowing an answer. A place of mutual respect.

    Why? Because Sea of Thieves is unlike any game I’ve ever played, it’s hard to define and categorize. That is partially why there’s so much agitation in my eyes. And yet that is also why there is so much room for creativity. It’s a unique game, let’s try to continue keeping it that way without trying to make it a copy of another game.

    And I can assure you that developers are much more likely to listen to a reasonably constructed argument or feedback point, than they are listening to a bunch of people trying to scream the loudest in order to be heard. Or a bunch of people who are like a cassette tape; constantly repeating the same “songs” over and over again. They're also much more likely to listen to a compromise, than a system that is entirely contradictory to their vision.

    You might be thinking, who is this guy to tell us what to do. And you’re right. I have no right to tell you to do anything. But I do have the right to speak my mind, as does everyone on these forums. Positive posts, negative posts or otherwise.

    I’m not saying all negativity should disappear, as it never will and that isn't productive either. All thoughts help build a better game, but the way we go about wording those thoughts and writing them down is what counts.

    All I’m asking is for a return of respect. When someone complains about something others have complained about, respectfully explain why it is/isn't a good idea. Try to respect differing opinions, to respect and work with RARE’s vision. And respect in trying to discuss how we can deliver on often mentioned feedback points, yet still respect the vision RARE has for Sea of Thieves.

    All I ask is that you please try step outside your own personal thought-box and consider more than your own thoughts and your own perspective. We're all human beings here, none of us is better than the other.

    It’s up to you to decide if that (AKA this disheveld post I've written, re-written, deleted, started over many times over the last few weeks) is a thought worth listening to. Perhaps this post will fall on deaf ears, perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree. But if I can convince even one person to open their mind, it's a success in my eyes.

  • 64
    Publicaciones
    42.0k
    Visitas
  • @erinom3

    Thank you.

  • @Erinom3
    As a silent lurker, thank you for voicing your thoughts.

  • @erinom3
    Excellent post m8!
    I'll put my explanation in the form of a gif.
    https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ComplicatedAncientAsiaticmouflon-size_restricted.gif
    This is how i feel about Sea of Thieves at the moment - it's my favourite toy & i love it to bits, but at the moment it feels like it's just out of reach!
    That gem of a game is there & likewise so are the gems at the core of the community! It's just hard work getting to the gem & finding the good bits.
    I haven't set sail for over a week now :(
    My SOT mojo is at it's lowest it's been for over a year! #sadface

    Again, much respect for the post m8, i guess i would be classed as a constant complainer. But you know I ain't a hater, i love the game to bits.

  • @erinom3 Thanks for taking the time to write that - it sounds good to me! I'll be sticking around, and promoting respect, tolerance and diversity, which can only be good things. I hope we see a reduction in the destructive feedback, and perhaps even an increase in positive feedback, something many people seem to think doesn't need to exist!!

    I feel bad for Karen though...

  • @erinom3 Ive taken a break aswell mate, i cannot wait untill the new update launches when i will be right back in the action! But you've basically smashed the nail on the head with alot of this post for me.

    I personally have found myself falling into the argumentetive category from time to time, i dont believe i start them but i have left a few snarky replies in won't lie and it is something im trying to address aha I have a tendency to reflect back at people rather then try and keep that cool head mentality what the forums used to have. Thats why it was so much easier "Back in the day" because 99% of posts where chill and polite. But we all have our things to work on aha.

    One thing i would also say though, on some occasions with continued asking, developers do change there stance on certain things and it can end up being a benefit for the game.

    A couple of things that spring to mind for me (Im citing Overwatch because that's the second game i follow closely) is teamdeath match on OW and Deathmatch. The devs said it would never happen and it doesnt fit the game, and they actually tried it and loved it and found it works. Currently we have a competitive version of it live on the game.
    They also said the same about a Role selection and i believe that will be coming soon due to it being asked for constantly, even though they said it went against there core design.

    I suppose the point im trying to make is although its Rares game, they are not making it for Rare if that makes sense, so its about finding that middle ground between there vision and community desire, its a very tricky balance to do and personally i believe Rare can do it, just like Overwatch.

    But im rambling so ill finish up. Great post mate as always, glad to see you still around and ill see you in game when you return im sure. :)

  • @erinom3

  • @erinom3 This is a very nice post, and I totally agree with the things you say. So many people just can't seem to accept that other people have different opinions on forums. I am glad that you are just trying to reach everyone with a well thought out post. That you try to encourage us, as a community, to learn to respect each other.
    I still love this game, and I totally see it's mistakes. I will never blindly defend it. But I can see through many things, just because it is so much fun in my opinion.
    I hope many people that maybe have been a bit too close minded will read this. :)

    Also have to add, that I agree that the fight with the Karen can be very easy sometimes. I mean, Karen is such a easy target. ;p

  • @drbullhammer Yeah I agree completely, and it does seem Rare are taking the same development approach as they did which can only be a good thing. Especially since its a GAAS title, you basically have to.

    To me the games like a masterpiece of Art, but it just needs abit more color and shading before its complete.. then it will be Jaw dropping.

  • Loved the forums during the stress test and the final beta, plus that final week before release. The feeling of excitement over the game was palpable and we were all sharing stories of our first adventures during that initial 24hour period as the release rippled from East to West across the globe.
    Then the inevitable invasion by new players happened and it all went to pot... The regular posters disappeared, the friendly banter and excited generation of ideas evaporated.

    I'm not taking a break, but I'm taking my time. See when you return to the Sea of Thieves and enjoy all that lies before you (I'm playing a bit of Rise of the Tomb Raider between sailing sessions personally)

  • @erinom3 So much of the yes. Thank you.

  • #RememberKaren #ReleaseTheKaren #NevarForget

  • tldrrrrrrrrrrrr

  • Well said! It's rather frustrating that good ideas and constructive criticism is buried by all the selfish moaning and complaining ye see these days.

  • Amen. I'm one of the passionate ones. Eg doesn't mean your not right tho. Good post.

  • @irhcsajr
    How incredibly insightful of you, such a thoughtful post. Thank you. I'll include a Tl;DR next time that says: you should read the first line of the post. Cheers.

  • @erinom3 Nice post. I have voiced a like opinion about the forums on more than one occasion myself. I have also been guilty of being pulled into ridiculous arguments. It is what it is. Nobody is perfect.

    When I first arrived in these forums (9 months ago I think?) it was awesome, just as you described. Up beat, fun, encouraging. People helping with ideas, being polite and so on. So, what changed? Obviously an influx of people. But, let me tell you the change I see.

    There was a time that there were several people (not allowed to put names, sorry) that would be considered community leaders. Stalwarts of the community, that helped shut these things down. We all know who they were. They always had something positive to say and they always found a way to softly defuse escalated conversations. Where did you guys go? You were/are respected and people listened to you!

    Then there is the Deckhands. They used to be everywhere. You couldn't post a word even close to an insult without getting jumped on. Now? This place is filled with posts that directly violate the rules, cussing, insults, trolling, and so on. I almost never see any of it corrected. What is the point of forum rules and the "Code" if it isn't enforced? Where are the Deckhands? What about the constant stream of repeated topics?

    The forums can be what they were...it just takes some effort, and people that stand out as leaders in the community to stand up and say something. Believe it or not, people listen to Pioneers, and they listen to Deckhands. So, it would be nice to see all of you being proactive again. It has been allowed to get out of hand. JMO.

  • thank u for this nice post.

  • Well said matey.

  • @touchdown1504

    The Deckhands are still here mate, we do read and we do try and step in where we can. Like Joe said in the recent podcast, the surge in forum traffic and size of the community has been mindblowing. There are additional staff on the Community team now and Rare staff who are reading and hearing what is being posted.

    Time was when we could get through our list of unread posts during the day, but now it's permanently at 99+ and we have day jobs to contend with plus we want to sail!

    Keep flagging those posts, they are logged and we're working on those too.

  • @katttruewalker Please don't think I am downing you guys! I still see you as community leaders. I know you are overwhelmed. But, at the same time...maybe some more Deckhands? Maybe some temporary bans for folks that need them? (I know, I have been close to that myself). I know one person right now that absolutely should be a deckhand and it baffles me why he is not. (I will PM the name). I have your back, and I always will, I just want this place cleaned up!

  • @touchdown1504

    Thank you, those words are appreciated more than you know.

  • @touchdown1504 @KattTruewalker
    https://media.giphy.com/media/vRHFfA62tLnvCJ3mj7/giphy.gif

  • @knifelife
    Oh no, don't get me wrong. It's not neccessarily a bad thing for developers to change their stance, or for the community to want things that the developers initially wouldn't consider.

    But, just as with OW, the implementation of those ideas is what is important. OW did so in a way befitting their game, it's only right that SoT be given the opportunity to do the same right? OW isn't implementing a battle royale mode because it doesn't fit their game, neither should Sea of Thieves because it doesn't fit this game either.

    Compromise, on some things, is very important but not compromising on other things is equally important. The developers have to decide if it's something worth compromising on, all we can do is word our ideas in the best way possible in order to convince them of our opinion.

    @TouchDown1504
    I totally get where you're coming from, we're humans and definitely not perfect. You're right, the people who used to frequent the forums have slowly dissappeared or become less active (like myself).

    That is why I wrote this post (partially as a reminder to myself and perhaps to others) because if we want this community to be how it used to be, in the sense of the general attitude of respect that used to dominate, we have to be pro-active about it. I've sat on the sidelines watching the forum "game" for a while, I think it's time to come back and play. But, in doing so we can't stoop to the negative behaviour or attitude that contradicts what we're trying to create/re-create.

    It's a difficult balance to strike, to be open-minded to ideas and be willing to discuss them while also trying to work with the vision RARE has for this game. As some ideas are just ridiculous in my eyes, and trying to respond to them respectfully is certainly a challenge.

    @Salem-Vice
    You're a word wizard!

  • We are here, and we do love how active the community is, though the shift in tone/energy has been palpable. We are still doing what we can to moderate in what can only be described as a tidal wave of posts, though clearly not being seen enough doing it, and for that we can try a bit more to bring the tenor of the old days forward, particularly around engagement over just moderation.

    Really appreciate the sentiments though.

  • @erinom3 Yepp agree completely, I want Sea Of Thieves.. not Sea of Fortnite aha

  • I love Sea of thieves as it is, Do I want somethings to change? yes ofc I have stuff I think could work good or needs to change, But I don't want them to change it just because a few of us want it and are the vocal majority on the forums for example.
    I think thats one of the problems why we get so much hate in any forum these days, we like the game but we don't want to see other people ruining it for us. Like this hole PvE and PvP server discussion.

    IF we only get pvpers in to one server we don't have anyone to acctualy pirate from and steal their booty, and if we don't have any pirates that goes around trying to steal people booty their is no tention in the game and it will die quickly.

    Jing and Jang we need both, but we can discuss it atleast but most of the time people want whats good for them, and not the game as a hole.

  • @mcstabbypants said in A letter to, and request of, the Community:

    Next time you're going to cry this hard do it prettier so I can enjoy it more.

    And here it begins ... so sad.

    Great post OP!

  • @mcstabbypants Ahoy mate, if you've nothing constructive to add to the discussion, feel free to move along to another topic.

    https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/45966/sea-of-thieves-official-forum-rules

  • Thank you, OP. You've expressed the sentiments of many who recall this being one of the friendliest, positive communities in gaming.

  • @mcstabbypants
    You know, I'm glad I received the attention from someone such as yourself. Someone who felt compelled to share their opinion, an opinion that adds nothing constructive to the conversation. It's a great example of behaviour we shouldn't aspire to reproduce, thank you for that.

  • Great post, i agree that the game and the community behind it is it’s biggest success, and best way to have continued success.

    I’m guilty of repeating ideas and I’m sure if you looked at my post history it had a lot of ups and downs when it comes to constructive criticism and productive ideas, and then rants and complaints, i still think a lack of meaningful content of any type is to blame more than any player expecting to much or expecting specific features.

    One thing I know for sure, this forum and game had a lot more “magic” to it back in the early forum days, we still had much more hope, and whether or not those hopes surpassed what rates vision was or is, it was still a good time to spitball ideas for “the pirate game you always wanted”

    I really feel like a lot of the discontent with Rare dosnt stem from where the game is at now, it’s where we imagined it to be at now, and you can call me naive for thinking there was any truth in those statements, but rares marketing team did all they could to make people think that way imo.

    Not here to just bash my favorite game, but where is the basic content that any game like this should have. Just assume that what I’m saying will be tweaked to fit the ideals of their vision, but where is the looting, basic crafting, sidegrade customization, meaning to quests, meaning to merchant items, outposts and islands with unique traits, more unique animals and npc and enemies, a bit more weapon variety, interactable environments like the pulley and winch platform hanging into Thieves haven being usable, rowboats, basic fishing, why isn’t there a basic form of a lot more things in the game. If all we could do was catch and eat one type of fish and that was the extent of fishing and cooking, ok atleast we know it’s in the game to be expanded on.

    I could throw random ideas out for hours and it’s not about me or my ideas being more important than rares vision, it’s about them adding things to their vision in a satisfying and timely manner (timely applying more to the pre launch development)

    As is we have an amazing game, pretty much solely because of the emphasis on community and player interaction, but with very few actual in game tools to facilitate these interactions with any meaning.

    I’m not saying it’s a bad thing that games are built around this, and all multiplayer games should take this seriously, but Rare didn’t code, or invent human interaction. That’s where the frustration comes from because the game is amazing but it’s not really because of any of the features they have put in, it’s the concept, and Most definitely the art style, a dash of them being Rare, and they nailed the ship combat for how simplistic it is, yet again the human element is what provided the depth.

    That’s what they need to make us forget. The human element is what makes this game great, but there needs to be enough tools, emergent open world elements, and meaningful incentives for any game activity to make sure that the social interaction can’t ever get boring.

    Even a simple arena combat game like halo has proven this is possible with the right combination of design. I think the variety of maps helps with the small number of weapons, and the fact that it’s matchmade keeps players engaged. The “30 seconds of fun” rule dosnt really apply to a game like Sea of Thieves with it being open world, which dictates that there be a lot more content to achieve the same results. Any open world game calls for a massive amount of content compared to an arena game or almost any game.

    If they had launched with a more appropriate wealth of content we all agree this game would be the next “WoW, Minecraft, Halo, Fortnite” etc. but obviously in a league of its own, and by the list you can tell I don’t mean scalewise, but quality and entertainment wise.

  • (Mod Edited)

    This right here. This guy in particular. One of many, that is all over the forums being a complete a*s, for the giggles I suppose. One only needs to look at his post history and see, that this is by far not a one off comment. (BTW...Look at mine too, I am far from pure. Want that to be clear!). My point is, there are repeat offenders trolling this place, may be time to cull the herd.

  • @touchdown1504 Hey mate please do not quote posts that require moderation as we will need to moderate your post as well.

64
Publicaciones
42.0k
Visitas
1 de 64