Provide Option To Play Without EAC.

Kernel level access fears are overblown.

Anti-cheat has been proven to be needed, so it’s here to stay. If you don’t like that, then uninstall.

If the majority of the playerbase really felt like the way you do, then there would have been an uprising already about it. The truth is, the average joe doesn’t care, they just want to play the game without the worry their session is going to be ruined by cheaters.

Easy Anti-Cheat is a kernel level program which many users are not comfortable with installing onto their devices because of the inherent risks.

On what proof. This sounds more coming from a user who uses cheats and hates they could possibly get found out. :/

There been cases where virus scanning programs will say, hey that exe is a Trojan delete! And it’s always a video game. So you’re installing something that can’t be trusted according to a security program.

You install google, chrome, other browsers which have higher risk of monitoring and stealing your info.
But we do anyways because “they said it safe”

So rare says it’s safe. It must be so.

@larryartichoke

Thank the "anticheat when?" crowd. Got what was asked for...

@WolfManbush Users wanted anti cheat, and the only way to protect properly against that is the kernel level access. Rare gave us it, and now we’ve got whiners on here complaining about the access it needs to help protect users. Face palm

You are basically a hypocrite in posting this though you are on the internet. You are more exposed being on a network being connected to the internet then a Kernel Level program being used. Some IP scanners can see what resolution you are running at, Steam and the other gaming systems can see your PC specs. You are using a browser which will be way more intrusive then EAC. You maybe marginally more exposed using Easy Anti Cheat at worst.

@tesiccl said in Provide Option To Play Without EAC.:

Kernel level access fears are overblown.

Anti-cheat has been proven to be needed, so it’s here to stay. If you don’t like that, then uninstall.

If the majority of the playerbase really felt like the way you do, then there would have been an uprising already about it. The truth is, the average joe doesn’t care, they just want to play the game without the worry their session is going to be ruined by cheaters.

Overblown? no it is not... don't like it, then uninstall?? that is not how it works.. people paid for a game, and in my case 2 days before they announced eac, I bought coins.. so if that is the case, fine.. then I want all my money back that I put in this game, because kernel level ac is spyware... the maker of eac said himself "if you start a game, then it can see everything that opens afterwards"... and in my case the insider had installed that spyware WITHOUT ANY NOTIFICATION, and it is running/spying in the servises WITHOUT even opening the game! Glad that spyware is off my pc now, but it took ages to get rid of it completely...

Does this game needs anticheat? YES, because there are a lot of aimbotters and people with infinate health etc, but kernel based ac is not only stupid, but against the law!

Me and my friends have now paid for something, while we can't play it, unless you let rare/epic spy on your whole pc.... no thanks!

@larryartichoke said in Provide Option To Play Without EAC.:

Sea of Thieves is currently unplayable without installing Easy Anti-Cheat. A method of playing the game without installing the third party program should be provided. Easy Anti-Cheat is a kernel level program which many users are not comfortable with installing onto their devices because of the inherent risks. Players who have bought the game should not be locked out of the product they purchased and love because they do not consent to these conditions which did not exist at the time of purchase.

Removing Easy Anti-Cheat would be the best outcome for the game, but that seems unlikely at this point. If Rare is set on leaving the program in the game, then they should at least provide a method of playing the game which does not require installing Easy Anti-Cheat. Any alternate method to play the game without the program would obviously be segregated from the rest of the community which is running the program. A possible candidate for this mode would be Safer Seas.

Safer Seas is already segregated from the rest of the playerbase, so there should be no concern about cheating as the only players who would exist on the server would be friends. Obviously playing a restricted version of the game just so you don’t have to install an invasive program from a third party is not ideal. It would also be best to modify Safer Seas to allow the game to play as normal. If that is too much to ask for, the restricted Safer Seas is still better than nothing.

For those interested in learning more about kernel level programs and why it is a mistake to add them to Sea of Thieves, a fellow pirate in the Sea of Thieves named Alienlazer made a great post on the topic. I will link it here. "On Easy Anti-Cheat - A Petition To The Community" https://www.seaofthieves.com/community/forums/topic/166834/on-easy-anti-cheat-a-petition-to-the-community

Game is indeed unplayable since they put that spyware in the game. If they make safer seas without eac, that is not an option.. then all the restrictions should be removed and you should also be able to sail with multiple ships on a server.

@tesiccl said in Provide Option To Play Without EAC.:

@WolfManbush Users wanted anti cheat, and the only way to protect properly against that is the kernel level access. Rare gave us it, and now we’ve got whiners on here complaining about the access it needs to help protect users. Face palm

people are not whiners when it comes to privacy and protecting their stuff...
If I need to do some work stuff from home, or banking stuff or other things where you need to type a password, it is NOT NORMAL for that spyware of eac to just keep running while the game is closed and see everything you do (including passwords etc)

anti cheat, fine, but NOT with acces to EVERYTHING

@moonlilly8494

kernel based ac is not only stupid, but against the law

If it truly was, EAC wouldn’t be allowed to exist. Enough hyperbole.

Over time, EAC is likely going to be way more effective in SOT than it is in Apex, Fortnite, and some of the other highly competitive games that struggle with cheaters despite having EAC.

Why? Because SOT isn't a comp game and has a fraction of the concurrent playerbase that those aforementioned games have. Eventually, the demand for hackers to develop workarounds for SOT EAC will dwindle because it won't be worth their time. It'll never be zero, but It'll be closer than the comp games that's for sure...especially when it comes to the closet cheaters (togglers).

While privacy concerns are always warranted, we're not talking about a fly-by-night piece of software. We're talking about an industry leading company that SOT has gone with. My friends that play on PC couldn't care less about EAC and its kernel level approach. They already play other games that have it and this is just another instance where it's going to improve the overall gaming experience.

If you're really that concerned with it, go buy a console...or pick a different game and move on. Harsh options, but there's no going back on EAC now.

@moonlilly8494 said in Provide Option To Play Without EAC.:

@tesiccl said in Provide Option To Play Without EAC.:

Kernel level access fears are overblown.

Anti-cheat has been proven to be needed, so it’s here to stay. If you don’t like that, then uninstall.

If the majority of the playerbase really felt like the way you do, then there would have been an uprising already about it. The truth is, the average joe doesn’t care, they just want to play the game without the worry their session is going to be ruined by cheaters.

Overblown? no it is not... don't like it, then uninstall?? that is not how it works.. people paid for a game, and in my case 2 days before they announced eac, I bought coins.. so if that is the case, fine.. then I want all my money back that I put in this game, because kernel level ac is spyware... the maker of eac said himself "if you start a game, then it can see everything that opens afterwards"... and in my case the insider had installed that spyware WITHOUT ANY NOTIFICATION, and it is running/spying in the servises WITHOUT even opening the game! Glad that spyware is off my pc now, but it took ages to get rid of it completely...

Does this game needs anticheat? YES, because there are a lot of aimbotters and people with infinate health etc, but kernel based ac is not only stupid, but against the law!

Me and my friends have now paid for something, while we can't play it, unless you let rare/epic spy on your whole pc.... no thanks!

Kernel level anti cheat is not against the law. When you accept tos or choose to download something with it, then that is your choice. Its not like some malware that you did not agree to and is intended to cause you some sort of problem. Just because you dont care for it does not mean you are owed any compensation.

Do i think they could have opted for something more reliable, sure! But if you are opposed to EAC then that is not on anyone else to deal with.

@outlander3234 said in Provide Option To Play Without EAC.:

You are basically a hypocrite in posting this though you are on the internet. You are more exposed being on a network being connected to the internet then a Kernel Level program being used. Some IP scanners can see what resolution you are running at, Steam and the other gaming systems can see your PC specs. You are using a browser which will be way more intrusive then EAC. You maybe marginally more exposed using Easy Anti Cheat at worst.

This is entirely incorrect and shows a massive misunderstanding of what kernel-level means. If something has access to the kernel of your machine, it has access to the entire machine. There is nothing it cannot do.

I'm not a fan of kernel-level anti-cheat, I've been very vocal about it in the past, and I think there is a big risk involved. When people, like Thor (Pirate Software), warn you about those risks, you listen. It's also not necessary for cheat detection and acts as a placebo in a lot of cases.

However, we're at a point where I don't think Rare will or can go backwards on this. EAC isn't great, but it's also not the most invasive of the kernel-level solutions out there - it only runs when the game runs, and that's far better than some. It also doesn't affect the game's Steam Deck verified status, which is a positive.

The real issue I have right now is that Rare have somehow messed up the configuration, making EAC both ineffective and a pain for legit users (something which I actually mentioned as a fear prior to it being added!). It also shouldn't uninstall Easy Anti-Cheat EOS when you verify game files, which is something it currently does.

Personally, I've had to create a task to run a BAT to delete the EasyAntiCheat_EOS.sys file each time I log in to Windows (don't worry, it's just a log file that gets recreated when when the game launches, it's a recommended solution by EAC) or it gets corrupted by SOT and locks up my machine, forcing me to do a hard shutdown and potentially damage my PC. Each time it has done this, it's broken MSI Center, which I use to control my fan curves. Meaning, I have to fix that and redo the curves for all my fans.

So, I'm not a fan of EAC, but it also should not be causing the issues it currently is. I've played games in the past that use EAC and EAC EOS, and not had the problems I have with SOT's implementation.

Thought the subject was sarcasm
I mean EAC was implemented a few months ago and players already asking for it to be disabled?

It's like asking for the upcoming double shot gun to be removed from the game the very next day after it comes out.

Even though I don't like the videogame developer EA that much, i loved the response they gave players once after receiving childish complaints for BFV "You don't like it don't buy it".

??? What good is an anti-cheat program if you have the option to opt out?

No. This would be abused to get onto higher seas without EAC.
How do I know that? Because you could do a single person closed crew galleon on arena when it was supposed to be impossible. All you had to do was jank the HUD couple of times. Also EAC is activated upon game launch, you select safer seas later.
No. Any person who advocates for no EAC gameplay is hacker in my eyes.
Especially that kernel level access drama is overblown out of proporion.

Paid $50 for hacked client and it's now wasted? I am so not sorry for you.

@adara-haze said in Provide Option To Play Without EAC.:

No. This would be abused to get onto higher seas without EAC.
How do I know that? Because you could do a single person closed crew galleon on arena when it was supposed to be impossible. All you had to do was jank the HUD couple of times. Also EAC is activated upon game launch, you select safer seas later.

Yeah, this would be theorethically possible, but would require them to exploit the flags used to disable EAC for Safer Seas. So, yeah, not a viable option and any exceptions just create vulnerablilities... about the only thing I agree with in your post.

No. Any person who advocates for no EAC gameplay is hacker in my eyes.

Not everyone on PC is a "hacker". It's very much a minority. There are legit players having trouble running the game at the moment (see the Troubleshooting section of the forum) because SOT's implementation of EAC is misconfigured. Meanwhile, actual hackers have used that misconfiguration to get around it. EAC is basically doing nothing right now.

So I can see and understand the frustrations from many folk and I think it's justified at the moment. I have faith in Rare to fix the problems, but everyone's level of patience is different.

Especially that kernel level access drama is overblown out of proporion.

Some might say the accusations of everyone on PC cheating was overblown, too... but unlike that, kernel-level access for anything is a serious concern.

As I've already said above, if something has access to your kernel, it has access to your entire PC. Everything. The kernel is basically the nervous system of your machine.

However, EAC is ubiquitous enough and has the resources (money) of Epic behind it. A 0-day exploit would be catastrophic for them, so it's in their best interest to keep it safe and functioning. We saw with the recent Apex Legends incident that people are quick to jump to the worst assumptions, but that doesn't mean caution shouldn't be advised.

So this is not to be taken lightly, but folks are going to have different thresholds for whether that risk is worthwhile. I've run games with EAC before and I don't have unreasonable concerns. But I'm also not going to be doing anything banking related, for example, on my gaming PC.

Paid $50 for hacked client and it's now wasted? I am so not sorry for you.

Nice. A hackusation to round off a post dripping in distain for the PC community.

Again, concerns are valid, even if requests are not.

@realstyli you are exposing yourself on the internet just as much though. If you are playing any other games then you are possibly using Easy Anti-Cheat. The anti-cheat is far from the biggest problem they have with the game its the lack of consistent quality throughout the game. Hourglass is bugged to hell with not being able to interact with harpoons, map tables, anchor, backsplashes still being a problem etc. Any changes to anything will result in a minority getting harmed as does anything you do. If you are that worried about Easy Anti-Cheat then how do you feel about using literally any browser? Any social media? You cannot tell me that you use Google Chrome, play fortnite or some Ubisoft game etc and you only have a problem now with Easy Anti-Cheat on Sea of Thieves.

What would they do otherwise? Let cheaters run rampant? I've played a good amount of hourglass before anti-cheat and both adventure and hourglass after and I can notice a stark difference.

@outlander3234

I've already explained that I play games with EAC already and my current issue is with how Rare have misconfigured it for Sea of Thieves. And I'm not saying the game is perfect otherwise... The bugs, including with EAC, are why I have played less in the last month, and not specifically EAC itself.

But I'm am also aware of the risks of anything running kernel-level and nothing you list there is even in the same category of risk (save Fortnite, which uses EAC).

Everyone is going to assess this risk differently. Thor, who I mentioned above, is heavily against kernel-level anti-cheat but he plays Helldivers 2. His solution is to play it on an entirely isolated machine. But that's not realistic for most people.

You can take precautions against risks generally online but, if there is a 0-day exploit found in EAC or any other kernel-level process, that's a real serious issue. And, again, I cannot stress this enough... if someone has access to the kernel of your PC, they have access to everything - software, hardware, files... there is nothing they cannot do with your device.

My comments here are to inform players of the risks, not to get Rare to get rid of EAC - I think we're too far for that to ever happen. But it does need to be fixed, because currently we have a process running kernel-level that's not doing what it's intended to do and that's causing all sorts of issues, some of which could potentially damage people's devices.

@realstyli How many times has this exploit really been used though? There was an issue with Apex Legends weeks ago in which hackers were able to execute RCE which gave players a virus and put a bunch of cheats like walls on there game but that was debatably if it was even linked to EAC. There could very well be an issue down the line and if that happens that is unfortunate but Rare will be able to respond quick enough to say that there's an issue.

How do you know that EAC is misconfigured I am curious?

@outlander3234 said in Provide Option To Play Without EAC.:

@realstyli How many times has this exploit really been used though?

At the moment there is no known 0-day exploit with EAC. But that doesn't mean it's not a concern. That is the nature of a 0-day exploit - it's not known, until it is. It's still a possibility. Spectre and Meltdown processor exploits weren't a problem until they were discovered either. If a kernel-level exploit is found and not discovered until much later, that would be catastrophic for Epic and users alike.

There was an issue with Apex Legends weeks ago in which hackers were able to execute RCE which gave players a virus and put a bunch of cheats like walls on there game but that was debatably if it was even linked to EAC.

Despite the initial scare, it was not EAC according to Epic. Given they doubled down on this claim and the fact it's not been a widespread issue, I am inclined to believe them in this instance. But they went to the bother of conducting a big investigation, which means they believe there is a possibility of something like that happening.

We still have yet to hear what actually happened in the Apex incident but there are a bunch of possibilities that seem more likely - including the hacker compromising the two streamer's devices using malware, or they social-engineered access to an employee's machine and were able to run server-side code. But those are just two scenarios.

There could very well be an issue down the line and if that happens that is unfortunate but Rare will be able to respond quick enough to say that there's an issue.

It won't be on Rare to respond, EAC is maintained by Epic. If there is a 0-day exploit we may not know about it until it's too late. That is the point. This is why bounty programs exist to try and find these issues before they are exploited by those with nefarious intent.

How do you know that EAC is misconfigured I am curious?

Because of the problems that are coming up for legit players that shouldn't be (just look in the Troubleshooting section of the forum), and because cheaters have been seen bragging about bypassing it with a relatively simple tweak. I won't elaborate because I don't want to give them anymore air.

I do think Rare can fix it, it's just a matter of time. But they need, in my opinion, to own these issues and not act like nothing is wrong. In the long-term that erodes more trust than simply making mistakes.

The biggest issue with EAC is the fact that it seems to cause frequent crashes for my client. I just want them to fix that and my framerate issues.

You can play the game without Easy Anti Cheat: Play it on Xbox or PS5.

Due to the proliferation of cheaters in the game, causing a bunch of us die hard fans of the game to get frustrated and some move on to other games, a vast number of us have been waiting for an Anti Cheat system to be added to the game.

Yes Kernel Level Anti-Cheat software is frustrating, but it is one of the more consistent methods of curbing the cheating problem.

If you would be capable of removing all the cheaters without easy Anti-Cheat I am sure Rare would jump on that... but unfortunately cheating is an issue, and without a system to curb it it will eventually drive everyone away from the game.