Pride month ship cosmetics

@faceyourdemon said in Pride month ship cosmetics:

My post was 100% respectful and not homphobic at all, shame you take it far for no reason.

My guess is yours was more of the negative part, there were other posts that were more in the other category

On the topic they have exercised their freedom and taken a clear stance on the topic. With that clear stance in mind I think it would serve people to consider that this is a place where we are guests. These are forums for a game, not really a platform for people's overall social opposition on different topics.

The forums and the game in general aim to be welcoming so if they feel that views/posts/opinions violate their intent they are gonna take it out.

They not only are in a position to consider the welcoming angle but also safety of participants. A part of a welcoming and safe environment that caters to many different people is to handle things that may cause an individual distress or that may escalate a situation to where it causes many distress.

I know it feels personal but I would just look at it like they are trying to keep things from escalating and coming across insensitive on a sensitive subject that personally affects many within the community.

When they communicate with messaging like "Rare is a very LGBTQ+ friendly company" that creates an ethical obligation to deliver on that message, for those that are here because of that commitment.

@faceyourdemon said in Pride month ship cosmetics:

@waywardf0x My post was 100% respectful and not homphobic at all, shame you take it far for no reason.

It wasn't against you, but someone else who asked for a hate-cosmetic and had some less friendly words towards the LGBT community.

Those posts of that person are already taken down though, so i think that caused the confusion ;-)

@hungus5846 Is it really necessary. Order of souls still doesn't have any new mission types. You'd rather forgo new actual content for in game cosmetics that almost noone will use, made for the express purpose of announcing that you don't sleep with the opposite gender? seems a little self important don't you think?

@silentkiller646 said in Pride month ship cosmetics:

There's ways to express yourself in game, but we don't need it to be front and centre. Which is why I believe a set with a colour motif is better than a set that explicitly states it's related to a certain movement (again, unless it's for a related charity, then hell yeah) it allows a lot more freedom, in my personal opinion. It's up to the player to fill in gaps, much like they have with the rainbow flag. Is that flag related to pride? Is it just a rainbow flag? The game certainly won't tell you, it's up to you to express that through your usage of it, you get me?

Under Captaincy that's like writing a personal letter to someone and starting it off with "To Whom It May Concern" because some in town take issue with the recipient or they take issue with personalized letters.

They stated how they feel, imo it leaves the whole thing feeling inauthentic when we all pretend like it might be something other than what it is.

@silentkiller646 said in Pride month ship cosmetics:

@wolfmanbush But my point is, saying "To whom it may concern" at a base level is inclusive and respectful, but not outright placing something (e.g. the recipient) into a box. A ship set with very obvious colour motifs and schemes can definitely be taken to represent something, and be used accordingly, but to fit with the Sea of Thieves and its themes, it instead has its own meaning and lore in game. The rainbow flag isn't outright stated as a pride flag yes, but it's very clearly become that, and represents that, both in the community, and for Rare. It's had a meaning applied to it, and that's what a lot of people see it as, for better or worse. Same can be done for anything, it doesn't have to be outright stated.
I'm of the mind that a charity set or cosmetic is the best approach for addressing an actual societal topic, as it also does good towards said topic. Establishes Rare's stance AND support, and lets people choose to support and rock a nice cosmetic. I'd rather see that than a set just thrown into the game for the sake of it, unless said set had an actual reason/presence in the game.

The important part is having a system in place to support the messaging. When a company signals about social topics imo it's important to examine what is in place with the product or platform to support the messaging that isn't just "buy from us or support us because we are riding a social wave now that it's much safer" This is why I did not support it under a random system as I didn't feel there was a support system within the game to support the messaging. The benefits of random escapism for all were greater than the benefits of getting involved in-game in my view. This changed with a more personal system put in place.

Captaincy is that system. Charity cosmetics are alright for medical issues, hunger, and charities for children but when it comes to supporting something like this thread's topic then charity cosmetics may not be the most inclusive approach as people from the community may often not be able to afford the cosmetic for themselves.

Under Captaincy they wouldn't be just throwing it in the game. Identity is relevant to those that want it to be relevant under captaincy.

Imo as long as they have a decent system in place to support the messaging they are free to go whatever way they want, without it just being opportunism, and people are free to either participate, not participate, stay out of it, whatever they choose/decide is right for them.

@maximusarael020 It takes time to clear doing anything and nothing is done without some sort of management team confirming it. The more requests you have for silly/useless/unneeded additions the longer it will take for quality content to be added

Next door to my house we have a guy flying the "Don't Tread on Me" flag, most people get what that means in a modern context.

The problem I have is where to we draw the line? How can Rare say one flag is ok, while others are not, without getting drawn into something really nasty and mean.

IMHO it is critical for game developers to remain neutral.

Same goes for Ukraine IMHO.

@foambreaker said in Pride month ship cosmetics:

Next door to my house we have a guy flying the "Don't Tread on Me" flag, most people get what that means in a modern context.

The problem I have is where to we draw the line? How can Rare say one flag is ok, while others are not, without getting drawn into something really nasty and mean.

IMHO it is critical for game developers to remain neutral.

The original design of random pre-captaincy was largely about consistency. A random non personal system is a random non personal system. That's where signaling can create substantive criticism if there isn't a system to support the people/cause that are being signaled to. Also there is more to support for complete escapism in a random design.

Whether a company or person they have the freedom to exercise it socially. People have the freedom to participate in the product or not, care/not care about how freedoms are exercised how they see fit but Rare doesn't have an obligation to remain neutral socially. They have exercised their freedom by stating multiple times how they feel about the topic. It's already known how they feel and in some ways that shows around different parts of the community.

Serving people and groups has long existed within the game, we are all attached to experiences and cosmetics in the game for personal reasons. Serving people that support the spirit of Pride or just people in general that face mistreatment and/or struggle based on something personal is just a part of serving people in the community. They celebrated International Women's Day. Women play the game, that's serving players within the game and it took away nothing from anyone else. Some people did their thing, other people did their thing, life goes on.

The cosmetics themselves would likely be something that many if not most would enjoy anyway. Nobody has to get socially involved to like or not like a cosmetic.

People get to still go out there and play how they want to play just like any other day.

@maximusarael020 "Rare is a private company, and therefore is allowed to say "No" to anything. "

Being "allowed" and having it be a realistic thing for a company to do are two completely different things. If they added from your example the WWII flags, there would be blowback in the real world.

And why, why bring any of that into our happy game?

@sandfeld2004 to call this politics is to admit bigotry. sexuality and gender in itself isnt political as it has been proven time and time again that is is both real and has been around for thousands of years. with the easiest and most prevalent example to make is Greece. and how evidence heavily suggests the default was bisexuality. with further research, although only one paper. it talks about how religion and and traditions heavily affect the default sexuality as when one is raised to believe that loving men is wrong, they will avoid it and suppress such feelings.

the only way for adding the four primary pride flags, Lesbain, men loving men (the short word is censored), bisexual and trans can be political is if a group of people disagrees with the existence of them. this is to also say that they also disagree with them being able express themself more freely ingame.

this differs from having a country flag ingame. what makes having the men loving men flag (rainbow flag) and the british flag ingame different is that the country flag represents one set of people primarily in one area of the planet. where as men whom love men are all across the globe and have been for thousands of years, if not the dawn of man.

we can also know that this isnt a abnormal trait to have as it has also been shown to occur in pigs, ewe, lions, great apes and many more animals (google animals that can be attracted to members of the same gender for more). heck, the guy who pained the last supper, leonardo da vinci. had modeled jesus after his "very close" male friend who he had engaged with "intimate activities" with on multiple accounts. it is also implied that issac neuton was a man who is heavily suggested to had loved another man, but i cant find any primary sources on that. just many 2nd hand accounts of him sending very romantic letters to his "best friend" and for extended periods of time "room mate".

sexuality and gender isnt political. you're just bigoted. sexuality and gender, although being on a spectrum isnt uniquely human and has been around for a very long time. if you can give me a concrete argument as to how it is political without the reasons being bigotry then ill fold and accept that they do not belong.

i look forward to your counter argument, if you can muster one.

@maximusarael020 To bring up nazis as a comparison without grounds to do so is a straight up fallacy. also to suggest that adding pride flags will lead to a slippery slope, another fallacy. That will inevitably adding the "1940s socialist germany flag" is to compare the lgbtqia to well nazis, which is also to admit bigotry.

On the mark of pride in horizon forbidden. I really love that as a cosmetic. Its really well done and the article is just talking about how it has no impact on the gameplay itself.

although i admit my argument i made could had been better. i should had mentioned the origin of the word lesbian as cishet men loooooooove them a little bit too much and historic accounts of people being trans, such as Harry Allen, a man born in 1882 who upon coming out as male would also threaten to shoot anyone who misgendered him. seemingly he didnt really face bigotry other than one notable jackarse. or on the on theme captain jack kidd, who had been passing as male during their entire pirate carrier. who had only revealed their sex assigned at birth seemingly twice, to their lover Anne bonny, who was also assigned female at birth but had been passing as male during their piracy carrier and when they were set to be executed, feigning pregnancy to avoid being killed.

although not entirely satisfied with my 3am rebuttable and could had easily improved it by taking examples from historical instances of each part of lgbtqia, atleast having theses extra ones would show that we've been around for a very long time. which supports the argument that comparing lgbtqia flags to countries and using the same excuse to avoid adding them doesnt apply.

although i admit my argument i made could had been better. i should had mentioned the origin of the word lesbian as cishet men loooooooove them a little bit too much and historic accounts of people being trans, such as Harry Allen, a man born in 1882 who upon coming out as male would also threaten to shoot anyone who misgendered him. seemingly he didnt really face bigotry other than one notable jackarse. or on the on theme captain jack kidd, who had been passing as male during their entire pirate carrier. who had only revealed their sex assigned at birth seemingly twice, to their lover Anne bonny, who was also assigned female at birth but had been passing as male during their piracy carrier and when they were set to be executed, feigning pregnancy to avoid being killed.

although not entirely satisfied with my 3am rebuttable and could had easily improved it by taking examples from historical instances of each part of lgbtqia, atleast having theses extra ones would show that we've been around for a very long time. which supports the argument that comparing lgbtqia flags to countries and using the same excuse to avoid adding them doesnt apply.

@sandfeld2004 take a gander at this too as i dont care to spend more of my time arguing with someone who thinks human rights can be argued. to call a minority group political is inherently very messed up and wrong.

@sandfeld2004 man cant even backup his claims of it being political.