@dragotech123
The only time I can get wins is when I am paired with a good PvP player that knows how to board ships and do cannons, and tells me what to do. Sometimes I have gotten lucky finding them on the xbox looking for groups when I create a post. Normally I fish so this season I've been exporing PvP trying to get these curses I have a long grind ahead. Also skilled based matchmaking is broken me and my girlfriend mostly fish and we got paired against two people that already had the curses. They knew how to double gun, shoot cannons, and cancel the reload animation.
Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels
@landonfirewing dijo en Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@dragotech123
The only time I can get wins is when I am paired with a good PvP player that knows how to board ships and do cannons, and tells me what to do. Sometimes I have gotten lucky finding them on the xbox looking for groups when I create a post. Normally I fish so this season I've been exporing PvP trying to get these curses I have a long grind ahead. Also skilled based matchmaking is broken me and my girlfriend mostly fish and we got paired against two people that already had the curses. They knew how to double gun, shoot cannons, and cancel the reload animation.A cultured fisherman? You have my respects!
Yeah, matchmaking is really bad, it's one of the issues this mode has. All these problems, blunderbomb spam, huge gap in skill between both crews, time diving underwater, long fights and short fights giving the same ammount of XP, very few rewards until level 100, having to resupply, spawncamp to get out of bounds, very punishing losses, and a long way to get level 100 without the multipliers, all of these stack and make casual players and PvE focused players to feel discouraged and give up on the mode. This is not very good, it drives players away from content that needs players in order to work properly. We shouldn't think that the players simply must accept that this is not for them, and tell them to do something else. We should try to make the content more enjoyable for everyone, even those who are bad at PvP. The idea should be to draw more players into the new season stuff. I don't know if queue times will be worse in the next months or if the game mode will slowly die due to the lack of players, but so many players already gave up.
I've seen youtubers like Blurbs, and HitboTC who are good at PvP making videos stating the same, it feels unfriendly to a lot of players. Here on the forums we see more and more posts about levels being too hard to get, and the mechanics of PvP that has been here from the start to not being ejoyable to them.
We talk a lot about the curses being the carrot in the stick, and for many it is the sole reason they are trying this.It feels like it requires a lot of hours per week to get one of the curses, and time is a finite resource for people who want to dedicate to something else they enjoy. "Simply don't do it" is a common response, and you know what? I don't do it unless I have free time to grind losses. It's a shame that the curses that most of the playerbase wanted are locked behind this progression system that only a portion of the playerbase enjoy.
To feel like you are progressing you need to win consistenly and make use of multipliers like emmisaries, streaks or selling flags. A loss resets all that, and reward little xp, on top of that no xp is rewarded if the enemy spawncamps you and sails your ship out of bounds to win.
@arch-ideall
I like these ideas hopefully rare implements some, the grind for PvE players with little PvP experience will be a long one if they don't. I'm asking for more exp increase there doesn't need to be a PvE way to earn it. It can stay PvP but increase the exp or lower the time for matchmaking ques.@dragotech123
I'm ok with keeping it only PvP to keep that side happy. Because PvE cosmetics make up a majority of SoT. But, I feel like the xp should be increased for losses or less experienced players that have been grinding and getting consistent losses. There should be more ways to earn xp during the ship/sword battles that take place. Because sailing around for hours trying to sink one ship in a circle and running out of resources and getting the minimum xp is not enough. Not to mention if they sail you out of bounds. Because streaks are how you get levels. The wait times in the ques are brutal, and finding a good PvP teammate when you are solo PvE player is also brutal.Yea, I think all of this could have been avoided if we just got 5-10x more experience for a loss, and Rare foresaw sailing someone else out of bounds as a valid and real possibility that awarded allegiance. Sure some try-hards might have complained about getting the curse to be too easy, but that's better than 1000x more players complaining it's too hard.
Gold and Glory weekends should make loses give as much allegiance as a win.
I didn't even get LSD because the grind was too much for me and the toxicity was massive. I'm a PVEVP player, I honestly enjoy both and am finding this grind exhausting.
@landonfirewing said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@dragotech123
How many consistent losses do you think it will take to hit 100 in either faction? I consistently sink 3 times a day, sometimes I get lucky with randoms and get a win, I'm genuinely curious what number of sinks.The general consensus that I'm seeing is that it's maybe 12-13 loses per (first) win, and 150 wins (give or take depending on streak and turn-in rate) to get the curse, so we're guesstimating ~1875 loses, give or take... But like, I wouldn't recommend grinding the loses.
My general play right now is to solo sloop and ram the other ship. My MMR is so bad I'm playing against some real unobservant folks: they jump on my ship and I drop anchor so they don't run me out of bounds. They ferry lock me (generally cause I'm trash at TDM) but they forget that if I die with a bucket in my hand, that water isn't in my ship. Because they left their ship, it sinks before mine. I get a win every 5 rounds or so, but only have a 50/50 turn in rate because sometimes it's close.
@arch-ideall said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
The mode is designed to work around 50% win rate. Now look at the streamers. Do you see all those streaks? From where are those comming from? Yes. Someone has to lose for them to win. So the situation is that the great pvp players hog all the wins while average and bellow average players are left with sometimes not even pity reward. The curse rate is usually somewhere around 200 - 250 wins. Wins give 8x more progression (+ hourglass, + emissary flags + streaks) so for a player to get it through losing that's 1600 - 2000 lost battles. If you fight generous 4 battles an hour, that's 400 - 500 hours. With good matchmaking time and throwing games maybe you can get to 10 battles per an hour. 160-200 hours of mindless losing - and you have to do it twice! Don't even think about the rewards above 100.
Grind in Season 8 is the most player unfriendly progression Rare has done by far. It's not designed to be fun and rewarding. It's the peak unrewarding frustration SoT can offer.
100% agreed, well said!
I wonder which are the current numbers of players having the curse, players matchmaking now, and the average level of the playerbase on both factions and compare them to the numbers from the first week. I would like to know if people are giving up, or they are still grinding to get the curses. If the game mode has a very small playerbase then the curses would become unobtainable.
@arch-ideall said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
The mode is designed to work around 50% win rate. Now look at the streamers. Do you see all those streaks? From where are those comming from? Yes. Someone has to lose for them to win. So the situation is that the great pvp players hog all the wins while average and bellow average players are left with sometimes not even pity reward. The curse rate is usually somewhere around 200 - 250 wins. Wins give 8x more progression (+ hourglass, + emissary flags + streaks) so for a player to get it through losing that's 1600 - 2000 lost battles. If you fight generous 4 battles an hour, that's 400 - 500 hours. With good matchmaking time and throwing games maybe you can get to 10 battles per an hour. 160-200 hours of mindless losing - and you have to do it twice! Don't even think about the rewards above 100.
Grind in Season 8 is the most player unfriendly progression Rare has done by far. It's not designed to be fun and rewarding. It's the peak unrewarding frustration SoT can offer.
exactly- those wins are coming from other's losses, so if you are average or below, the odds for getting a streak are certainly not on your side, it's like flipping a coin, the chance of getting anything more than twice in a row is pretty slim. If you want the chance of an average player getting a streak of "x" just go ahead and 0.5^x... using this, you can see that an average player for every 4 battles played has a 6.25% chance of even just becoming a faction champion- and that's if you don't end up turning in at a 3 streak. Oh and not only that; only the top 15% of of players (using the same equation) have the odds in their favor for becoming faction chapion.
@sir-sniffils I'd say that it even needs to have streaks of 2 or higher to feel like progressing, so even if you win one match, by losing the next one everything is lost: flag, loot, streak multiplier. So, one player needs to win consistenly to feel a better progression. But I cannot talk to much about this, it is just speculation because I don't win at all.
On the other hand losses are much more punishing, very little xp, extra supplies are lost and any xp boost is reset. Also it has to take into account that those losses must be by sinking from enemy shots, being sailed out of bounds rewards no xp so no progress at all.@dragotech123 said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
I wonder which are the current numbers of players having the curse, players matchmaking now, and the average level of the playerbase on both factions and compare them to the numbers from the first week. I would like to know if people are giving up, or they are still grinding to get the curses. If the game mode has a very small playerbase then the curses would become unobtainable.
a week or two ago rare released the stats, 75 players had skeleton curse, and I believe 300 had ghost curse. according to sea of thieves website, sea of thieves has got 30 Million players, so at most 0.00125% of players have one of these curses... and I say "at most" since some of these players might own both- bringing up the total curses count.
@sir-sniffils Oh, that is not good, like seriously, it is not good in my eyes. I expected more people to have the curses already because they could be owned by those who are already PvP experts, arena players, and streamers that can sink galleon alliances as solo sloopers. I was totally sure that they would have already gotten their curses with ease as it would pose no challenge to speedrun the progress, but even with less than 1% owning them despite the fact that a lot of players like to speedrun things it means the system is really slow.
@dragotech123 a little higher if you were to count in only active players, but even if only 10% of players a fairly active... there's still less than 1% who own the curse. And also these stats were like 1-2 weeks old, but even if 5x more people own the curse in addition to that, it's still below 1%...
Now understand these remain the most requested and desired curses in the game. Imagine how many players they've driven away, perhaps permanently, because the one thing they want will perpetually be out of their grasp.
I absolutely want there to be content locked behind PVP for that crowd to have their exclusive content. But I love this game too much to see players driven away by locking these behind PVP. The base curses need another way, they just do. We can't drive players away like this... 😥
@lordqulex said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@landonfirewing said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@dragotech123
How many consistent losses do you think it will take to hit 100 in either faction? I consistently sink 3 times a day, sometimes I get lucky with randoms and get a win, I'm genuinely curious what number of sinks.The general consensus that I'm seeing is that it's maybe 12-13 loses per (first) win, and 150 wins (give or take depending on streak and turn-in rate) to get the curse, so we're guesstimating ~1875 loses, give or take... But like, I wouldn't recommend grinding the loses.
My general play right now is to solo sloop and ram the other ship. My MMR is so bad I'm playing against some real unobservant folks: they jump on my ship and I drop anchor so they don't run me out of bounds. They ferry lock me (generally cause I'm trash at TDM) but they forget that if I die with a bucket in my hand, that water isn't in my ship. Because they left their ship, it sinks before mine. I get a win every 5 rounds or so, but only have a 50/50 turn in rate because sometimes it's close.
That's like exactly what I do too! lol :)
@sir-sniffils said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
That's like exactly what I do too! lol :)
Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery? 😅
@lordqulex said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
Now understand these remain the most requested and desired curses in the game. Imagine how many players they've driven away, perhaps permanently, because the one thing they want will perpetually be out of their grasp.
I absolutely want there to be content locked behind PVP for that crowd to have their exclusive content. But I love this game too much to see players driven away by locking these behind PVP. The base curses need another way, they just do. We can't drive players away like this... 😥
Totally agree! There should be things locked behind pvp- just not the most requested curses (when stuff gets requested a lot, it means people want it- so why lock it behind something few people will actually obtain?). I know I've been wanting this since season two (when I first figured out about curses). And I wouldn't say I've been driven away, but I certainly am not looking forward to playing sea of thieves as much as I used to, and I will say that every time I launch the game it feels like work more than fun- not only that, but I can't stand doing things that I find fun in the game while knowing that the thing I've wanted most is in the game. So I can't even enjoy the fun parts of the game anymore since anytime I try, all I can think of is "get skeleton curse".
@lordqulex said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
Now understand these remain the most requested and desired curses in the game. Imagine how many players they've driven away, perhaps permanently, because the one thing they want will perpetually be out of their grasp.
I absolutely want there to be content locked behind PVP for that crowd to have their exclusive content. But I love this game too much to see players driven away by locking these behind PVP. The base curses need another way, they just do. We can't drive players away like this... 😥
Well Rare won't change their minds so i assume they weighted the loss of players vs giving PVP players something to be elitest about and in the end they went with what was best for the PVPer, kinda like they do with every one of these "eight straight PVE updates" where you can still get all the rewards stealing stuff vs doing the content
@slashclaw547 the thing about this is even some average pvp players will stuggle with this, so this is more like for the top 15% of pvpers or something.
@sir-sniffils I would consider myself an average pvper and its not a struggle at all. If you win half, its fairly quick. 140 servant, 30 guardians. Also, even if its the top 15% (which I have no idea how you have any data on this), Those top 15% are also the people that stick with the game and don't give up, so they are a much bigger ultimate portion of the playerbase.
@ogron2358 I would also like to consider my self to be an average player that plays this game continuously and I am struggling with this system, not only that, I can't even bring my friends to join me on the grindfest.
@mewds-d-jolly there are tons of discords to find people to play with. Also, if its the length of the grind you are worried about, it is much much quicker on solo sloop I have found. I play all ship sizes depending on which friends are on (right now I am on a brig), but the queue times and battle times are incredibly quick on a solo sloop. If they are going to take too long, just lose and requeue.
@ogron2358 said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@sir-sniffils I would consider myself an average pvper and its not a struggle at all. If you win half, its fairly quick. 140 servant, 30 guardians. Also, even if its the top 15% (which I have no idea how you have any data on this), Those top 15% are also the people that stick with the game and don't give up, so they are a much bigger ultimate portion of the playerbase.
here's how I got the 15%
@sir-sniffils said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
exactly- those wins are coming from other's losses, so if you are average or below, the odds for getting a streak are certainly not on your side, it's like flipping a coin, the chance of getting anything more than twice in a row is pretty slim. If you want the chance of an average player getting a streak of "x" just go ahead and 0.5^x... using this, you can see that an average player for every 4 battles played has a 6.25% chance of even just becoming a faction champion- and that's if you don't end up turning in at a 3 streak. Oh and not only that; only the top 15% of of players (using the same equation) have the odds in their favor for becoming faction chapion.
I think instead of saying 15% we need to start talking about standard deviations away from the mean. I honestly don't feel like anyone less than three standard deviations above the mean (97.8% if the players) have the curse. Frankly the only reason people that good have it is because they have the rest of us to farm wins off of. That's the downfall of a SBMM system that searches too far up or too far down to reduce queue times: it favors the top players. The rest of us who are even one-or-two standard deviations above the mean (that's 47.7% of players) will generally find players of equal skill level, reducing our odds of ever getting a streak by the exponential rate that you are talking about (2^X).
So even for above-average players, this grind seems just so far out of reach because all things being equal, we will become a faction champion merely 6.25% of the time, or a little more than one out of every 20 times we start over.
@ogron2358 said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@mewds-d-jolly there are tons of discords to find people to play with. Also, if its the length of the grind you are worried about, it is much much quicker on solo sloop I have found. I play all ship sizes depending on which friends are on (right now I am on a brig), but the queue times and battle times are incredibly quick on a solo sloop. If they are going to take too long, just lose and requeue.
Ahh good thank you for the suggestion, I would most likely ofcorse drop my real life friends to play the game with other guys that I don't know because the devs decided that the new game mode is rewarding enough for the hardcore fans of the game, nah thx, I will pass.
@lordqulex said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
I think instead of saying 15% we need to start talking about standard deviations away from the mean. I honestly don't feel like anyone less than three standard deviations above the mean (97.8% if the players) have the curse. Frankly the only reason people that good have it is because they have the rest of us to farm wins off of. That's the downfall of a SBMM system that searches too far up or too far down to reduce queue times: it favors the top players. The rest of us who are even one-or-two standard deviations above the mean (that's 47.7% of players) will generally find players of equal skill level, reducing our odds of ever getting a streak by the exponential rate that you are talking about (2^X).
So even for above-average players, this grind seems just so far out of reach because all things being equal, we will become a faction champion merely 6.25% of the time, or a little more than one out of every 20 times we start over.
and that's if we don't turn it at a streak of two or three
@mewds-d-jolly said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@ogron2358 said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@mewds-d-jolly there are tons of discords to find people to play with. Also, if its the length of the grind you are worried about, it is much much quicker on solo sloop I have found. I play all ship sizes depending on which friends are on (right now I am on a brig), but the queue times and battle times are incredibly quick on a solo sloop. If they are going to take too long, just lose and requeue.
Ahh good thank you for the suggestion, I would most likely ofcorse drop my real life friends to play the game with other guys that I don't know because the devs decided that the new game mode is rewarding enough for the hardcore fans of the game, nah thx, I will pass.
The hardcore fans of the game aren't going anywhere, and the casual/average players are quitting over this mess. There needs to be more and better ways to gain allegiance or soon the hardcore fans will be the only players in the game. That's the trajectory we're on.
@lordqulex said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@mewds-d-jolly said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@ogron2358 said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@mewds-d-jolly there are tons of discords to find people to play with. Also, if its the length of the grind you are worried about, it is much much quicker on solo sloop I have found. I play all ship sizes depending on which friends are on (right now I am on a brig), but the queue times and battle times are incredibly quick on a solo sloop. If they are going to take too long, just lose and requeue.
Ahh good thank you for the suggestion, I would most likely ofcorse drop my real life friends to play the game with other guys that I don't know because the devs decided that the new game mode is rewarding enough for the hardcore fans of the game, nah thx, I will pass.
The hardcore fans of the game aren't going anywhere, and the casual/average players are quitting over this mess. There needs to be more and better ways to gain allegiance or soon the hardcore fans will be the only players in the game. That's the trajectory we're on.
and if the casual fans leave, the queue times will go higher, and then the hardcore fans are going to leave due to that.
@sir-sniffils said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
and that's if we don't turn it at a streak of two or three
Who are you kidding, I turn in a single streak every dang chance I get. I'll take every ounce of allegiance I can get my hands on thank you very much. My W/L ratio is pretty close to 50/50 and I'm not risking that quarter level!
@lordqulex same here, I turn in for each single streak! :D
my best streak is two and that's just cause a player invaded me while I was going to turn it in (they crashed and sunk lol)@lordqulex said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@mewds-d-jolly said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@ogron2358 said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@mewds-d-jolly there are tons of discords to find people to play with. Also, if its the length of the grind you are worried about, it is much much quicker on solo sloop I have found. I play all ship sizes depending on which friends are on (right now I am on a brig), but the queue times and battle times are incredibly quick on a solo sloop. If they are going to take too long, just lose and requeue.
Ahh good thank you for the suggestion, I would most likely ofcorse drop my real life friends to play the game with other guys that I don't know because the devs decided that the new game mode is rewarding enough for the hardcore fans of the game, nah thx, I will pass.
The hardcore fans of the game aren't going anywhere, and the casual/average players are quitting over this mess. There needs to be more and better ways to gain allegiance or soon the hardcore fans will be the only players in the game. That's the trajectory we're on.
oh believe me, the hardcore fans will also drop this mode, no one can withstand grinding this same game mode all the time, it will get monotonous after a while.
@lordqulex There are several factors that might make players quit entirely.
- Cheaters, Exploits and Hackers.
- Toxic people that trashtalk and are overall obnoxious and hateful.
- Allegiance gain being abysmal, even if you have a high streak.
- Double-gunning with animation cancel.
- The time investment needed to unlock the new content. Most players have jobs, families, other hobbies.
- FOMO
The last two points also go hand-in-hand. Logging in at a certain day for unlocking cosmetics is a strange choice. I made a post this year and said that something like that punishes people with families, jobs or are unable to play out of health reasons. The replies were really shocking.
@shenlongkazama said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@lordqulex There are several factors that might make players quit entirely.
- Cheaters, Exploits and Hackers.
- Toxic people that trashtalk and are overall obnoxious and hateful.
- Allegiance gain being abysmal, even if you have a high streak.
- Double-gunning with animation cancel.
- The time investment needed to unlock the new content. Most players have jobs, families, other hobbies.
- FOMO
The last two points also go hand-in-hand. Logging in at a certain day for unlocking cosmetics is a strange choice. I made a post this year and said that something like that punishes people with families, jobs or are unable to play out of health reasons. The replies were really shocking.
And the problem adds onto its self, because of the allegiance gain is abysmal, you would have to suffer more through playing against the cheaters, hatful toxic people and animation cancelling double gunners.... god I truly don't enjoy getting matched against them.
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