Griefing peaceful players needs Gameplay Punishment

@combatxkitty I'm not suggesting that SoT implement any of these features, I was simply responding to your statement about these games being more toxic by demonstrating that Rockstar has at least put in measures to curb that toxicity (even if it doesn't work 100% perfectly).

Having said that, I don't disagree with anything that you said, but my experiences have also never been that bad in either of those games. I have come across one of the racist posse's in RDO—I think he got triggered by my awesome Honest Abe outfit—but luckily that was a one-off and the only such encounter I have seen personally. And anytime I switch into either of the defensive modes, the players usually just get bored and give up as I go on with whatever I was originally trying to do.

What platform do you play those on? I'm wondering if that might influence the amount of toxicity in game?

@greengrimz I just wanna find out what discord it is and infiltrate it.

@thagoochiestman said in Griefing peaceful players needs Gameplay Punishment:

@combatxkitty I'm not suggesting that SoT implement any of these features, I was simply responding to your statement about these games being more toxic by demonstrating that Rockstar has at least put in measures to curb that toxicity (even if it doesn't work 100% perfectly).

Having said that, I don't disagree with anything that you said, but my experiences have also never been that bad in either of those games. I have come across one of the racist posse's in RDO—I think he got triggered by my awesome Honest Abe outfit—but luckily that was a one-off and the only such encounter I have seen personally. And anytime I switch into either of the defensive modes, the players usually just get bored and give up as I go on with whatever I was originally trying to do.

What platform do you play those on? I'm wondering if that might influence the amount of toxicity in game?

GTAO I played on xbox and Ps4 , I found xbox to be much more toxic which is why I switched to Ps4. Red Dead I also played on xbox and Ps4 but mainly on Ps4. GTAO it depends on how deep you get into it. There is literally like an entire GTAO underworld so to say and its very toxic. People take that game very serous as if its real life to them. I would be stalked by some guys for months simply because I out PvP'd them which led to them becoming infatuated by a female gamer who can PvP well or the type who could not handle a woman beating them. I would have leaders of other crews start sht with me just because they saw my growing crew as competition to theirs. My crew was pretty well known, I even gave an interview to a popular GTAO gaming blog about it and we won many competitions, had a music video on youtube so it was kinda serious. It all got to be too much drama and too toxic, I have stories for days which is why I turned over my crew to my co leader who has done a sht job running it but its still around last time I checked. Anyways I now only play on ps4 with a small group of friends and keep to myself.

Red Dead I ran into many racist groups and players and was often attacked for having a female native character. What type of character do you play on? That is not why I stopped playing though like I said I have thick gamimg skin, I stopped because it was waaay too buggy, half time I couldnt even run my butcher business due to game bugs. I gotta check back into Red Dead though and see if its gotten any better.

Sea of Thieves does have things in place to curb griefing. Like in GTAO and Red Dead can mute game chat. You can scuttle if you are being spawn camped and for me the biggest one is you cant join anyone session unless they invite you. On GTAO the system is set up in a way that it is very easy to stalk so yes while GTAO has passive and private lobbies they have a major flaw that allows for serious harassment.

Also keep in mind as a woman my experience will be much different than yours.

@combatxkitty My RDO character is a Native male (GTAO is a male descendent of Niko) but I don't think I've experienced any harassment specifically because of my character; but I can't speak to being a female character.

But I'm also a really casual player in both so I won't be getting onto anybody's radar in terms of money/progress/KDR. And in RDO my friends and I were using the private lobby glitch most of the time (until they issued the patch that effectively reduced lobby sizes) so it was rare running into players at all.⑴

And yeah I don't know what it's like being a female gamer. My friend has said she stopped playing online for years (until trying RDO) after experiences somewhat similar to what you described, but I assume it's even worse than how she described it to me.

⑴The reason I originally suggested SoT to her was because we both really enjoyed just exploring around the map in RDO and checking out everything, and I told her SoT had cool islands and caves to explore. But it's not nearly as relaxing to enjoy the scenery in SoT as it is in RDO.

@aarongkv said in Griefing peaceful players needs Gameplay Punishment:

Hey, "new player" here, wanting to share my experiences.

Hey fella, been playing only 6 months myself, welcome to the seas!

Yeah, i'd love there was a kinda pacifist mode, like in Fallout 76 when you can get attacked, yeah, but you can easily run if you just dont want trouble. I've been attacked by galeons being alone in the sloop, trying to just know how to play. I'd love there was a "new player protection" because that made me quit 2 h after getting the game because "F this, no point in getting one thing if i'm going to get sunk"

Yeah, we got Krakened and ran into a Skelly fleet first time out and sank twice. Felt frustrated like you did. It can be a baptism of fire out there buddy!

Also, Thalassophobia is a real problem when you get sunk in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, i get "this is a pirate game" and whatever, but i don't think spawn camping you in the ship is fair. Yeah, i get PvP is a thing, but, why do i have to suffer because my continuous deaths are the only way another player can enjoy his/her existence?

I normally only see spawncamping in arena. Can't tell you the last time I was spawn camped in adventure, if it does happen and it's bad i'll jump into the sea and eat some food quick and try to blunderbomb my way back onboard or as a last resort scuttle if there are too many and they are really good. Saying that there are a couple of times I have managed to get on their ship and tuck which can allow you to get up to all sorts of mischief... Your ship has gone by that point anyway and is waiting for you next to a nice peaceful island ready to go again.

And how the hell do i silence the voice chat? I'm tired of hearing annoying kids squeling in the voice chat as they sink my ship. That's toxicity at it's finest.

It's in the menu under either gameplay or audio, you'll find it i'm sure.

Also, why cannot be a PvE mode? There are PvE ships, why don't just limit the rewards in PvE mode, to prevent easy farming? Maybe mix PvE and PvP servers together X amount of time per day, so people who does not want trouble can stay in safe spots and those who just want kill any and everybody can do, just PvP players VS PvP players, instead of Hungry PvP sharks hunting for PvE Sheeps (as you call them)

Heck, i can't even take a break without the risk of getting a bullet to the head even in the inn if i go afk for 5 minutes!

Err, don't take a break on an outpost buddy, spend enough time to get supplies and shop if you need to but get out on the sea as soon as possible. People may arrive to turn in and think you are a camper, most take no chances.. Find some big rocks to hide behind or an island bay with no view of an outpost if you need to go afk for 5 mins.

Last thing i'd like to say is, please developers, add some kind of "fake ground" for us the Thalassophobic ones and some kind of fixed point in the middle of the screen to prevent this "virtual sea sickness" sometimes people gets. May sound stupid but you can find examples online. And yeah the fake ocean floor will be that, fake, like the Kraken's body (it doesn't exist yet as far as i know) but i think will help a lot with phobias.

That is a bit like somebody with a fear of spiders complaining about watching Arachnophobia or Eight Legged Freaks repeatedly buddy, I feel for you but it's your call to play a game revolving around sailing a ship on the sea..

Thanks y'all for reading, and excuse the rant. Happy (AND PEACEFUL XD) sailing!

And fair winds to you matey! It gets easier, fighting, running and avoiding are all valid ways to play. I suggest playing sloop Arena for a bit sometimes (with a buddy or you could roll the dice with open crew) to help learn to attack and defend better, sometimes it's not much fun but sometimes it is and it's only 15 minute matches, you get Naval and PvP practice, spawncamped occasionally so learn to deal with that a bit better and you get rewarded even if you finish last!

Going back to adventure mode after a few arena matches lets you see how tranquil it can be out there..

Hey pal, it you look carefully you only received one upvote. The reason is quite simple. The reason is that your claims are pretty ridiculous. Everything that you complained about is what the game is supposed to be just as one of the other people who replied showed you the words of Joe Neate himself. You wanted devs to give less do and gold for people who stole stuff. This is dumb because again, it is a pirate game. There are achievements, commendations, and titles and more which require stealing treasure. The game is called
“Sea of THIEVES”. My guess is you are solo so that’s why you complain. Even then it isn’t impossible to fight back you know? Devs want you to fight and protect your treasures from players and the world. So instead of complaining about combat because your either not good at it or just refuse to play on other than a sloop, just practice with a crew and get good at the game. If you don’t want to I suggest leaving for good because the game will not change as it’s pirates. Also a side note: you mentioned you liked the sailing mechanics so if you want to sail u disturbed, the maiden voyage is solo with one island and no threats and your favorite ship the sloop so enjoy that I suppose. I do really suggest you take a look at the different social platforms the game and community offers to find crew mates and you’ll see how much fun it is. If you want I could help you myself as well. You deserve tonsee what the game is really about.

@aarongkv said in Griefing peaceful players needs Gameplay Punishment:

@wagstr Hey! Thanks for your kind words!

No problem mate, your post deserved nothing less!

I'd like to clarify some things. When i mean i get spawncamped i mean, when i respawn at the wheel, some one with the shotgun straight at my face, and boom, everything's whyte grey and white all again. At least i get a cool flame for the lantern, lol.

Scuttle time unless you can change to the blundie on the ferry and can remove their face first..

When i go afk, i try to not be just open in the middle of nowhere, just dancing by myself (or dancing with myself if you're a Billy Idol fan) in the Inn, i can't thing of anything more harmless than that.

I can't think of a much more dangerous place to chill tbh on your own, some of the most valuable loot in game is turned in there.

And if someone climbs my boat, 10/10 they were holding a red barrel, and his buddy as a sniper made the trick. No chance to say "hi, welcome on board" and i wouldn't go on anybody's ship without them knowing, at least...

In general, unless you are invited don't go on another ship unless you intend to cause mischief. Unless you invite them aboard yours shoot them on the ladder or before they even get on it if possible. Especially if they keep saying 'we're friendly' and are carrying a keg.

I'm not too keen to use the voice chat, im not fluent in spoken english, as it's not my mother lenguage, and i dont use it very often, so, little chance to practice, and you know, people are mean because is too easy to be "the biggest guy in town" on the internet.

I have no issues with the Kraken / Megas bu themselves. specially now i enabled the "auto float" option, so i can decide when i want to take the risk and even use it as some kind of therapy, and hey, it's helping! And yeah, may sound a bit mas0chist (why the censorship? lol) to enjoy this, i just wanted to "ask" (using the word loosely) for something, because they went that far to enable that option, and in other games they have some filters (Grounded with the arachnophobia filter making spiders harmless-to-look blobs, pretty funny, you can adjust the level of scariness they give, how many eyes, legs, etc)

Thanks again for the hints and your kind words! i love to see there are also good people here!

There are a lot of good people on the sea. There are a lot of scallywags too but what do people expect? Once you get past being bothered about loot and realise the seas are completely riddled with it you're fine. It's all about the adventure me laddie!

Next goal: Dealing when the sensation of the screen going up and down when i close the game. Some new kind of virtual sea sickness, lol xD
Sorry if this rant 2.0 was a bit more difficult to understand, sometimes i don't know how to explain myself XD

You do a grand job, I wouldn't have known if you hadn't said.

Happy sailing and stay safe!

You too bud!

@ajm123 I dont even care about alliances in general. just the ones that want new members to post about pve servers.

I have a better solution.

If you dont like the game as it currently is, uninstall it and play something that offers what you want, not change the entire game to suit you.

I bought a game on the promise of PVEVP with emergent gameplay and the possibility of PVP.

If that ever changes Rare owe me a refund.
Its that simple.

the game is a pirate game its meant to have pvp and if you are loosing all of you battle watch some youtubers like mixelplx or freemasonlive just some pvp youtubers then learn some strats. you can also play arena or if you have insider you can host/join a private server with friends and practice pvp or pve without any restraints cause no Randoms can come and sink you

@fall3nsnip3r340 said in Griefing peaceful players needs Gameplay Punishment:

@thagoochiestman said in Griefing peaceful players needs Gameplay Punishment:

@combatxkitty

Grand Theft Auto Online has "Passive Mode" which prevents other players from killing you, as well as the ability to start solo or invite-only sessions.

Red Dead Online has "Defensive Mode" which is effectively the same; and although players can still kill you, there's no lock-on and it's much more difficult. Then they also have "Parleys" which means that you can prevent other players and their posse from attacking you for a certain period of time.

I can't speak about the toxicity of in-game chat, but both games definitely have measures to prevent griefing and other toxic behavior of that sort.

Yeah, but in those games, if you have passive mode you can't really do anything that would make you money. That just doesn't work for sea of thieves.

Exactly, like how the custom servers will be progression-less and currency-less.

People kept bringing GTA as an example, looks like the devs listened! :)

@markedseven52

I really feel for you here, but this game is way more similar to Rust, Ark, GTA Freemode, etc. Pvp happens anytime, anywhere, for any reason. Not expecting pvp in a game where pvp is explicitly one of the only ways to interact with other players is a little silly.

Another thing here is that you should keep your eyes on the horizon at all times. It should be second nature to check before, during, and after spending time doing anything off your ship. You can see ships from several islands away and they are easily outrun. No one should be ruining your fun unless they're very good, got lucky, or more likely, you're inattentive to your surroundings.

I don't want to shut you down here because you are having a problem and you want it to be addressed, but ask yourself: How would you determine what would deserve lower reputation?

• Article One: Reporting players is something that already handles this sort of behavior, though arguably it could be better implemented
• Article Two: By what metric would you measure a betrayed alliance or shot to the back while repairing someone elses ship? Player ratings have been suggested, but these could be easily abused or easily tanked on a whim. Quickly becoming unrepresentative of the behavior they want to encourage or discourage.
  *Article Three: What about land battle? Can you not protect your spoils as you turn them in?
• Article Four and Five: related to crews
• Article Six: How would you know a player is new? There are tells, yes. But not everyone can make that distinction. Should these players be punished.

Maybe its not the disregard to the pirate code that bothers you, perhaps its just the idea of your ship getting sunk or you getting killed repeatedly. What is the measure of someone spawncamping another player? What determines an unjust attack on another player vs simple self defense or pre-emptive strikes? how do you differentiate that from toxic behavior.

The answer to all of this is that playing the game without fear of other players was not the intention of the devs. Like rust, like Gta freemode, like ark, Sea of Thieves requires other players and all the baggage that comes with that. If you're looking for a single player experience, Sea of Thieves might just not be the game for you.

I do think you should go at it again. Get a group together, check out the LFG channels on discord, whatever, and get aggreessive. Chase folks down, plunder their riches, loot a vault, fight greymorrow, fend off the server hoppers looking for loot. Play for that experience and you might find theres something special to playing this game more like a pvp game than a pve one.

@fall3nsnip3r340 Hence why I mentioned the private/invite-only lobbies.

Yes, obviously there are certain limitations depending on your mode but that doesn't negate the fact that the game gives players multiple different ways to enjoy the game (or avoid internet low-lives).

And considering GTAV is one of the most successful entertainment products of all time (not just video games—this includes movies, music, etc.) it seems to be working really, really well for them.

Like I don't remember ever hearing about any Rare title being on that level... and SoT definitely won't get there when most of the community cries "go play a different game" whenever there is a new suggestion.

@markedseven52 said in Griefing peaceful players needs Gameplay Punishment:

I've been away from Sea of Thieves for what feels like an eternity. I bought the game on launch even though I had game pass because I loved the look and feel of sailing a ship, digging for treasure, and the adventure of Sea of Thieves. I quit playing soon after starting though, and only now do I remember why. Every time I start having fun, someone comes along and ruins it. I don't want to do PvP. I play Apex Legends, and Spellbreak, and a host of other games when I went to test my skill against other players. And those games tend to have ranked modes where players' skill is assessed and they generally play against other similarly skilled opponents. Even World of Warcraft, which is more similar to Sea of Thieves in regards to player interaction than the other types of games I mentioned, because WoW has PvP servers in which you don't get to choose when another player attacks you. Grand Theft Auto and Red Dead Online, although not games I tend to go to for fun, have really good, and really clear, gameplay rules when it comes to attacking another player. I propose that the current flag system be broadened to have more affects on gameplay, e.g., I want to be able to raise my white flag to indicate I'm not looking for a fight and AT LEAST take some reduced damage from another player. I want a player who breaks that code of conduct you place by the exit of every tavern to be punished in SOME WAY for doing so. Because right now, it is truly meaningless, and I'm not sure why you went to the effort to even write it if it means literally nothing. Please, give a reputation system associated with the Code. Have the regular factions give less coin/stop working with low rep players. Let the Reapers reward a player for PvP/low rep because that'd be fitting. But I'm just so tired of getting attacked every single time someone sees my ship. It's exhausting. And it reminds me of why I stopped playing your game. I love the adventure. I love the quests. I hate your players. And you are letting them ruin the experience of other players without consequence. Please do something about it. I might try to play every now and again, but I'm not going to get through a Tall Tale like I want to if every time I set out, I'm likely to get sunk and killed without even any loot on my ship.

pirate game and no pvp only servers or pve only modes

@Deckhands god not another pve only thread it's one is a costume

@thagoochiestman said in Griefing peaceful players needs Gameplay Punishment:

@fall3nsnip3r340 Hence why I mentioned the private/invite-only lobbies.

Yes, obviously there are certain limitations depending on your mode but that doesn't negate the fact that the game gives players multiple different ways to enjoy the game (or avoid internet low-lives).

And considering GTAV is one of the most successful entertainment products of all time (not just video games—this includes movies, music, etc.) it seems to be working really, really well for them.

Like I don't remember ever hearing about any Rare title being on that level... and SoT definitely won't get there when most of the community cries "go play a different game" whenever there is a new suggestion.

Heard about those yet?

https://www.seaofthieves.com/news/custom-servers-update

Great news isn't it?

@bloodybil I mean if you actually think new and/or casual players will buy custom servers I've got a couple other things I'd like to sell you..

The only people who will buy those are the streamers or other people who've already sunken 100s of hours into this game.

But at the end of the day there's nothing wrong with SoT being a niche game.

If they added a pacifist mode, to keep it from being abused, they would need to make you stay that way your whole play session and force you to log off and back on. so you cant turn on/off your mode as needed to get the drop on people.

@thagoochiestman said in Griefing peaceful players needs Gameplay Punishment:

@bloodybil I mean if you actually think new and/or casual players will buy custom servers I've got a couple other things I'd like to sell you..

Do tell! Although I will warn you, I do my research before buying anything, to make sure my purchase will suits my needs ;)

@thagoochiestman I would buy one. I would buy it just to be able to invite a bunch of friends to it. As long as I can do that then its sold.

First, I'm frustrated by the way people jump on posts like this. Yes, the game isn't Sea of Friends, but it shouldn't be Sea of Griefing either. And OP may not be experiencing griefing per se, but the ideas they're putting forth don't actually impact the game's design principles (@CallMeBackdrafT).

What are they suggesting and how do we discuss it in a productive way?

• Flags get a gameplay impact
• Penalties for players who break the Code

Okay, that sounds like something we can work with.

All flags getting a gameplay impact is probably too much, but let's just focus on the White Flag.
OP suggested that a white flag could give damage reduction for those who hoist it, but then everyone would have a white flag raised. Then what else could it do?
Maybe penalize players who attack you/your ship as long as you don't fight, perhaps? How about any treasure aboard a ship that's raised the white flag is worth some percent less to the original crew and much less to any crew that damages you, give it the tag "coward's". Maybe attacking a white flag ship nets you penalties to your reps, but raising a white flag reduces your damage output by a bunch? Obviously, those suggestions are also imperfect, but my point is that there is room to explore possibilities in even the most PvE feeling of ideas. I'm very interested in situations where players might engage in parleys and non-violent thievery/robbery, rather than just sinking ships.

@gelatinousgelby

And OP may not be experiencing griefing per se, but the ideas they're putting forth don't actually impact the game's design principles (@CallMeBackdrafT).

Its more beyond per se, a majority of the time posts here just label any form of conflict as griefing. They could be loaded with loot and they still would cry foul. Yet, this is why people pile in on those posts. That is just playing the game, so by extension, it isn't griefing. If I am playing UNO against you, and I keep hitting you with Draw 2s and chain whenever possible, am I griefing you or just playing? Certainly it isn't fun getting your deck loaded, but it certainly isn't this malicious attack intended to steal the fun out of you.

You don't punish players playing the game in a normal fashion.

Suggestions like what you put forth effect everyone. Take your flag idea, the server already has a set amount of ships. Every ship in that server that flies that white flag is another ship I may not be able to interact with if I get penalized for playing the game and go stealing. All it takes is two or three to essentially make the game barren of interaction. This is a social game, its meant to be played with the intention of interacting with other crews, whether its through cooperation or conflict.

The game advertises itself clearly, people coming into the game and expecting this peaceful sailing simulator should look else where. Developers are under zero obligation to cater to audiences that don't fit their target demographic. The players that make these PvE/Passive/non-conflict server suggestions aren't that demographic.

@markedseven52 but what about the people that say "let's form an alliance" ya know, pretending to be peaceful, then board you and kill you. I stopped trusting anyone by my third month of playing.