PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI)

@hipsu555 I understand what you're saying about getting a separate progression system and having players choose between a PVE only game mode, or a PVP-PVE game mode.

Here's one reason why this won't be added into the game.
Imagine you have a choice, you are going to start a FOTD and you want to stack it 6 times, would you rather join a PVP-PVE server, where you can get tucked on, killed, have your loot stolen, be worried that someone is going to ruin your experience at the FOTD. OR, are you going to take the PVE only route, where you don't have to worry about other pirates or getting your loot stolen?

99/100 people will choose the PVE only server because there is no risk. The problem with this, is that the PVP community will go into games, and there will be next to nothing for them to steal, because everyone would go into the PVE only mode to do their missions.

A lot of these arguments are based around the PVE community, yes having a separate game mode for ONLY PVE would drastically improve the PVE community, because they wouldn't have to be worried about losing their loot. However, no one considers the PVP community, and how that would affect them.

If Sea of Thieves added a PVE only mode, most players would never even attempt to play the PVP-PVE mode, because there would be no incentive to do so. It is a much safer and better option to play the PVE only game mode so that you will never get your loot stolen. If you want to get something like this into the game, you would have to find a way for it to benefit the PVE and PVP community, because most of these arguments that people find are only helping the PVE'rs not the PVP'rs

Another reasons why this will never be added into the game is because the developers have said that they will never add a game mode with strictly PVE.

@kaijoi Well summarised. The game is all about risk vs reward, and giving a way to avoid 100% of the real risk (PVE threats are a joke) totally defeats the point.

If anything, no risk should entail no reward, hence why a training mode for new players to mess around without giving ways to cheese the system for the rest of the community would be perfect. Baptism by fire still remains the best to know how the game really works, but compromises can always be made if the devs really see the need for it I suppose.

@hipsu555

I'm struggling to follow your logic.

@rowge-gaming
If they did it just for the sake of it when logic dictated otherwise then yes, they would be foolish.

I think they are sticking to the vision because they believe in it and the majority of people complaining about PvP are relatively new to the game.

It would destroy the game because the new non-sociopaths who far outnumber the sociopaths would all choose the PvE version and get bored within a couple of months. Adventure mode would turn into Arena/DM and that would be the end of SoT.

Tense encounters with real people who turn out to just genuinely want to help or need help or just want to play a shanty with you are what make this game unique the way it is.

@rowge-gaming

If your friend the founder no longer plays because he doesn't like the game then he is no longer a player.

The vast majority of people who complain on here about PvP are not long term players, the evidence is in the posts. There is still a very healthy player count as far as I know, Steam reviews are very positive.

Who would want to play adventure mode if every encounter was guaranteed to be toxic? The game dies.

@orchideelamm921 The microsoft store does actually do refunds.

@rowge-gaming I wasn't saying 99/100 people OVERALL will choose the PVE only server, I was saying that anyone who does a mission and has a choice to be free, or to have to watch their back all the time, would always choose the former, and would rather not worry about people stealing their loot.

Isn't this kind of an admission that this is what most people want?

Yes, I would agree that there are plenty of people who believe that this game shouldn't have added PVP into it at all, and it should've been like singleplayer Minecraft, where it's you against the world and no players to ruin it. However,

(1) The developers never wanted a PVE only mode, they always wanted players to play together, PVE and PVP, and they will never separate that.

(2) And again, you are only thinking about the PVE'rs. While the majority of this game are people who enjoy PVE, there is still a very passionate community who enjoys PVP if you were to implement PVE only servers, that would ruin the PVP community as they wouldn't be able to steal loot anymore, and people would be upset.

(3) Another big pull in the PVP direction is that most of the top streamers who stream this game daily incorporate PVP to some degree, notable streamers such as Pace, BurgerWarrior, AweCoop, and plenty others. If you were to add something as drastic as a PVE only server, those streamers would simply quit playing the game because the content that they were made famous for and the content that they enjoy making is no longer possible, because people will always rather play on a safe, calm, and relaxing server to do their missions, rather than a server where they have to live in constant fear that someone could swipe their hard earned loot.

My point was: "this is our vision and we're sticking to it no matter what" isn't always the best business model. It will get you some street cred or whatever for "staying true" but it doesn't translate into success as well as "providing something that everyone wants" does.

You're definitely right in saying, "We're sticking to our guns, and no one will ever change that." Is not always a good business model, you need to be willing to adapt. But as long as there is a strong enough community of PvP'ers the game will never go into a PVE only mode. The reason why they will never add a PVE only mode is like I listed above, streamers, and the community.

The only way I could see a PVE only mode come into play, is if 99% of the PVP playerbase left the game, and there was no longer a big enough community to warrant keeping PVP as a thing. At the end of the day, games aren't dependent on majority votes, it's about trying to maintain and keep all the groups and communities happy. If you were to add a PVE only mode, the PVP group would not be happy, so they will never add it.

No matter what, the developers were very clear from when they launched the game till now that they don't want to have separate servers. So no matter how many posts are made that they should have PVE only servers, it will never be added. The only way that would ever be added is if 95% of the playerbase wanted this to happen, because then the 5% isn't big enough to warrant keeping servers alive.

So no matter what your argument is as to why they should add PVE and forget about the PVP community, it doesn't matter because they will never add that to their game.

@rowge-gaming said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

@kaijoi The only thing I think they should do is release a server install so people can run their own servers if they want to.

Sure, a nice monthly fee to run those would only help!

@bloodybil

And that would also end up being subject to a different kind of piracy altogether as well.. Result!

@wagstr said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

@bloodybil

And that would also end up being subject to a different kind of piracy altogether as well.. Result!

Not like PVE-only advocates care if the game thrives of dies anyways, it's the same end goal: to have empty server all to themselves.

@rowge-gaming said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

There are quite a few forum users that are so desperate to show everyone how hardcore they are and insist that PvE would be "boring" and PvP is so clever and exciting.

I'm not sure what the right word to use would be, but it seems like those responses are ignoring the fact that some people find it the opposite; they enjoy the PvE aspects of the game, tall tales, digging up chests, fighting ghost ships, etc. and find player encounters less than enjoyable.

SoT has great atmosphere. The music is great and the game is beautiful, and that is why a lot of people play it, not for the PvP. Most people I know that like PvP play games like EFT and Apex because those offer a more superior Pvp experience.

Rare is making a business decision, and they will live or die by it. I think a lot of other games have suffered from this kind of obstinate "we don't care what our customers are asking for" attitude. There will always be fanboys that never see the flaw in the decision (not saying this is a bad decision or not, the market will decide).

Success is not contingent on "staying true to your vision" but rather on providing something the market wants. I guess we'll see what the market has to say when everyone who wants to try the game has tried the game and how many stick around.

There you go insulting people who do not agree with you as usual. Im not "hardcore" yet I play the game fine as is.

How do you know Rare is saying we do not care what customers want? I think the majority of people who buy this buy it understanding its a PvPvE game and are are fine playing as so. Then there are people like yourself who buy it knowing its a PvPvE game but demand Rare change it. Rare clearly feels it is doing well enough that it does not need to cater to people who buy their game knowing it has PvP then complains about it to them.

I say good for them. So tired of gamers with entitlement issues.

What if there were a "law and order" faction on part of the map where NPC ships/guards protect players from PVP? Wouldn't eliminate PVP but could provide PVEers with some shelter (although rewards wouldn't be as high here: you pay for NPC protection).

@hipsu555 Exactly, it's not fun to have your loot stolen, but it's apart of the game. I also wasn't saying 99/100 people want PVE. I said if you had a choice between being safe and secure, or being scared that someone is going to steal your loot that you worked hard for for a couple hours, 99/100 people will choose the PVE mode as to not have their loot stolen.

If you scroll up I made a response to rowge gaming where he said basically the same thing you did.

@hipsu555 said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

The problem with PvP-mode is that only one side will have fun, mostly the winner.

Winning is fun and losing is not. Water is also wet, fire tends to be hot, and the sky is blue.

Pvp community tends to ruin the game for alot of people, sure they have fun stealing stuff, but if they get raided themself they alt+f4 the game.

Most mature people can deal with loss and defeat. When you get raided, you try to get your stuff back. When you can't manage, you find new stuff. That's the whole point of the game, there is always more loot to get. If losing in a video game makes you rage quit, you have a problem, no matter what kind of player you are.

Being stolen is rarely fun, especially if you put alot of work into the game. Thats why so many people want PvE-Servers.

If only people would put as much work into learning a few strategies and counter to keep said stuff, as well as not taking personal offence at losing in a game, they would enjoy it so much more. People don't want to bother, and/or buy games without properly looking if it suits their play style. That's why those people want PVE servers.

Better yourselves and reach the bar instead of whining to have it lowered.

If its totally seperate progression and you want to PVE in your own bubbke then thats fine.

Problems arise when progression exists.
Because that will breed farming servers and turn adventure mode into a hyper hostile game mode where everyone is there to PVP and nobody is collecting treasure as they can do it in their safe progression PVE farm server.

No progression no problem.
But i wont be joining anybody there.

@ghostanimals545 said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

Can someone explain to me why it has to be "Play with me or don't play at all"?

I am totally on board PvE servers not being able to bring the progression that happens to them into PvP servers. I just don't understand why people just don't want people to have the option?

The executive producer of the game has the answer to your question:

The whole core premise of SOT is that it’s a shared world. To get to Pirate Legend, there will be danger and there will be other players, the risk and the reward is all part of it …that’s what SOT has always been, it’s a shared world adventure game, there is a purpose to that…it’s all about a shared world and we have no intention to deviate from that.

We don't want to split players, we don't want to split player types, the whole identity of sea of thieves is a shared world and the different kind of motivations within it.

@rowge-gaming

Exactly, it's not fun to have your loot stolen, but it's apart of the game. I also wasn't saying 99/100 people want PVE. I said if you had a choice between being safe and secure, or being scared that someone is going to steal your loot that you worked hard for for a couple hours, 99/100 people will choose the PVE mode as to not have their loot stolen.

What I mean by that is logically, if you are going to do something that makes you a big target (have a lot of loot) You will want to reduce the chances you have of dying to other players. If a PVE only mode was added, most people would go into the safe haven that is PVE only, in order to avoid getting killed by other players.

"99/100 people will choose the PVE only server"
Isn't this kind of an admission that this is what most people want?

Just because most people want something, doesn't mean it's going to happen. Most video games don't run by a majority rules policy, they run by trying to ensure that all the communities of the game are happy.

For example, if all the PVErs thought that the sword should do 100 damage so that it's an insta-kill, but ONLY if you were fighting other players, so that they could better defend themselves against double gunners. That wouldn't be fair to the Pvpers, because the sword would then be completely OP.

If all the PVErs think this way, is that a reason to have it? No, because then that wouldn't be fair to the Pvpers who would say that it's completely OP.

The reason why PVE only servers are a bad idea, boils down to the fact that PVPers who play adventure only do it because they can steal loot. If their sole purpose was to kill people they would play arena, but almost everybody who PVPs does it for the loot.

If you remove the suppliers of the loot (PVErs) the PVP community will die off, and SOT be a completely different game and the developers don't want that to happen.

@ghostanimals545
There are plenty of reasons for and against PVE only servers, but I think there are 2 logical answers for why this will never be added.

(1) People who play adventure mode who want to PVP, almost always do it because they can steal other people's loot. Of course some if the thrill comes from Pvping, but the main reason is so you can take someone else's loot. If you remove the supplier of the loot (PVErs) by adding a separate game mode for them to play in, the PVPers will no longer be able to do what they enjoy doing, not to mention the hundreds of streamers who play this game solely for the purpose of fighting.

If you add PVE only, PVErs would leave the multiplayer servers, which would make the PVPers leave, which would make the streamers leave, which would kill the games popularity from streaming, and that would remove an entire chunk of their player base.

(2) The developers have said that their vision for the game has always been to allow players of all communities to play together in one server, whether that be PVErs, PVPrs, or the role players. They have said many times that they will never add a PVE only mode because that's not what they want this game to be.

At the end of the day, the developers make the final decision, I don't think the game will die if they keep adventure mode the way it is, so they will never change it.