The State of Solo Play

  • As of the most recent updates, solo play has become increasingly more difficult as new additions create new advantages for larger crews. I feel as though Rare doesn't fully understand the fundamentals of PvP in their own game, thus making poor judgments when it comes to making changes.

    For starters, I'd like to introduce myself to establish an idea of the perspective from which these ideas originate. I am what many would consider a veteran player. I first started playing SoT shortly before the release of seasons, and I quickly found myself learning PvP in Arena after getting burned out grinding PvE. Since then, I have primarily focused on solo sloop PvP. When I'm not hourglassing, I tend to interact with other players, hunt reaper emissaries, and provoke fights. It's through my experiences with fighting bigger boats for such a long time that I've noticed significant changes to sloop PvP that I feel as though make soloing a less viable method of fighting. My biggest concerns surround the harpoon gun and blunderbuss, with some smaller grievances around bonecallers and reaper chests.

    • The harpoon gun gives larger crews a significant advantage over smaller crews, especially solos.

    The harpoon gun is by far my biggest gripe about recent updates; any crew that has a harpoon boarder against a solo is a nightmare to sink. To understand exactly why, you need to understand that boarding is about distraction and soloing is about time efficiency. Before the harpoon gun change, if a boarder got on the ladder, the time it took to respond was trivial. A quick blunderbomb or a single blunderbuss shot instantly solved the problem with minimal time wasted and minimal distraction. Now, the story is different; not only does the harpoon gun increase the boarding radius, thus making boards happen more often, but after the solo knocks them off, they have 5 more opportunities to board again! Now, after knocking the harpoon boarder off, the solo can't go about being efficient with other tasks; the mere threat of the second board causes enough distraction to waste more of the solo's time defending against the same boarder. It's debilitating to the solo; 100% of the crew is distracted by someone in the water. It wastes precious time. For example, if I'm spiraling a bigger boat, I'm having to deal with the same boarder over and over and over again instead of punching holes, sending chains, and denying the other crew their cannon line, wasting even more of my time fixing avoidable repairs and turning winnable fights into exhausting slogs. I should add that spiraling is especially difficult because the spin of the boat exposes more ladder to the boarder, giving the boarder an additional advantage during the crucial part of ending a fight.

    In addition, the Harpoon Gun can effectively one-shot a solo at range. If, for example, I peek to snipe the boarder from the water, they can yoink me off the boat, which is oftentimes WORSE than dying. I've sunk too many times from being yoinked off my boat by a dude in the water.

    The Harpoon Gun also allows boarders to hit the top of the ladder, which reduces reaction time. Once the boarder is up and the anchor is down, as long as the boarder is alive, the solo is paralyzed.

    All this to say, the harpoon gun is broken against solos, to say the least.

    • The Blunderbuss change was not an adequate balance for the Harpoon Gun, and the increase in damage dropoff and spread has hurt its potential as a weapon.

    Rare's solution to the addition of the harpoon gun was to turn the blunder into a leaf blower to knock boarders off. To somebody who doesn't understand PvP, that sounds like a good idea. To people who understand the mechanics of PvP, it's just awful. I'd like to reiterate my previous point that the threat of the board alone is what causes distraction and wasting of time; the boarder doesn't need to be on the boat, and "more knockback" doesn't grant more utility towards knocking people off a ladder. It's a situation where more != better. It doesn't help against the harpoon gun. Moreover, increasing spread and dropoff makes the blunder worse at killing pirates. The solo doesn't need the harpoon boarder in the water; the solo needs them dead or otherwise unable to board again at all. This creates a double-edged sword where a solo needs the trait of knockback to defend the ladders, but using the blunderbuss is suboptimal if a boarder gets up. I'd like to add that if a solo gets anchored, having a boarder in the water is still a huge distraction that will stop them from getting anything critical done. Not only does added knockback do little to solve the harpoon issue, but it also comes at the cost of lethality, something that solos—and really all crews—actually need because it's generally better to kill boarders than to knock them off.

    I want to make it clear that I am not commenting on whether or not the blunder should be a one-shot-kill, just the dropoff and the spread.

    • Bone Callers and Reaper Chests offer more advantages to larger crews.

    This is one of my lesser grievances, but it still shows a trend of giving larger crews more opportunities. There is less space on sloops for the skellies to go, so they tend to block stairwells, buckets, shots, etc. They distract solos with the possibility to kill 100% of the crew if they have too much to deal with, and they're throwable by boarders, which in my opinion makes them worse than any curseball against solos. It ultimately comes down to the fact that smaller crews have fewer people to deal with the skeletons, giving bigger crews an advantage.

    • Why I think Rare doesn't understand the fundamentals of PvP in their own game

    The mess around the harpoon gun and blunderbuss, to me, is indicative of Rare making decisions based on inexperienced judgement. I understand the logic behind their decisions, but the conclusions that they reach tend to lack experience and fall short in-game. The only way I can imagine that Rare came to the conclusion that the blunderbuss needed to become a leaf blower is that they misunderstood the role of the boarder and the utility of knockback. They probably thought that the role of a boarder is to kill the crew; thus, a leaf blower would favor the defenders. In reality, the boarder's goal isn't to kill the other crew; it is to distract them, to disrupt them. Killing the crew is a means to an end, and trying to address boarders killing crew after boarding with a harpoon and blunderbuss only attacks a symptom, not a problem, and doesn't actually offer a counter to the harpoon gun. When it comes to knockback, it feels as though they had a "more is better; keeping the boarder off the boat is good enough" mentality, when again, boarders can still cause distraction and disruption from the water.

    I'd also like to quickly talk about armories; they were locked because Rare rightfully foresaw that harpoon boards followed by weapon swaps would be too powerful. While I mostly agree, it still feels indicative of the "a boarder's goal is to kill the crew" mentality. I'd rather see crews have the ability to lock and unlock their armories. I've had plenty of fun player interactions limited by locked armories in response to the harpoon gun.

    • What needs to be done

    The changes that I'd like to see are
    - The harpoon gun no longer works on boats.
    - Blunderbuss spread and damage dropoff decreased (returned or improved off of original)
    - The number of skelly spawns from bonecallers scales with crew size.
    - Unlock all armories or allow crews to choose
    - More communication with PvP creators and the community for future changes

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  • Half of the point of the harpoon gun is to get to your own boat faster. If you got knocked off, use the harpoon yourself to get back on. They already nerfed harpoons, you can't just shoot yourself over an enemy boat and grapple to the deck anymore. I remember pre-nerf how easy it was to board people, if you thought the grapple is bad now, you would have hated it then. Also I'm not sure where a lot of this is coming from, you will always be at a massive disadvantage fighting a large boat. If a galley sends 2 boarders who board together you probably have no chance to stop them even without grapples.

  • All valid points, I basically dont solo anymore.

  • @potatosord

    Half of the point of the harpoon gun is to get to your own boat faster. If you got knocked off, use the harpoon yourself to get back on.

    Most people don't use an entire weapon slot for fall recovery, its inefficient usage considering that there are merms that do that for you. I'm primarily concerned with how it's used offensively and what you said doesn't detract from any of my points.

    They already nerfed harpoons, you can't just shoot yourself over an enemy boat and grapple to the deck anymore.

    Maybe in insiders there was a nerf, but the harpoon gun was never able to grapple the deck in the base game. It was only buffed. First it had reduced range and would waste ammo for missing shots, which was tolerable at the time because one mistake had the boarder stuck in the water. Now it has full harpoon range with no penalty for missing shots, including hit scan on targets, which is so broken against solos.

    I remember pre-nerf how easy it was to board people, if you thought the grapple is bad now, you would have hated it then. Also I'm not sure where a lot of this is coming from, you will always be at a massive disadvantage fighting a large boat.

    "Pre-nerf" would have only occurred in insiders, the harpoon was only ever buffed in-game. While it's true that solos will always be at a disadvantage, there is a difference between natural disadvantages like having fewer people and unnatural disadvantages like poorly designed game mechanics that unnecessarily widen the gap between larger crews and smaller crews. Or more simply put, larger crews can make better use of the harpoon gun compared to smaller crews, which isn't balanced.

    I was fully capable of destroying larger crews pre-harpoon gun despite being solo. However, with the addition of the harpoon gun, fights (and especially spirals) that usually ended in wins have turned into slogs because the other crew can send one dude who wrecks my time economy through successive boarding threats.

    If a galley sends 2 boarders who board together you probably have no chance to stop them even without grapples.

    Blunderbombs
    Now with grapples though, after I send those blunderbombs, they can come right back to my ladder and force me to spend more time dealing with them, meanwhile they can still shoot cannons.

  • solo play has become increasingly more difficult as new additions create new advantages for larger crews.

    Solo = Hard Mode.
    It happens, until you make it easy.

    I feel as though Rare doesn't fully understand the fundamentals of PvP in their own game

    How does Pvp define solo play?

    I am what many would consider a veteran player.

    Likewise, but not an excuse to use.

    first started playing SoT shortly before the release of seasons

    Ooooh...your not that much of a vet after all.

    The harpoon gun gives larger crews a significant advantage over smaller crews, especially solos.

    One weapon less to use, and its always a hit or miss, with long loading times. Once they land, has a delay before switching weapons.

    I've sunk too many times from being yoinked off my boat by a dude in the water.

    By a Grapple or Harpoon? So maybe...dont stand where they can hit you?

    Once the boarder is up and the anchor is down, as long as the boarder is alive, the solo is paralyzed.

    Throw some Traps...use Spears...throw some random chests around your deck. Set it on fire...Heck a blow dart works (explosion)
    So many choices here.

    To somebody who doesn't understand PvP, that sounds like a good idea. To people who understand the mechanics of PvP, it's just awful.

    Talking about yourself in this sentence? Im confused. :(

    The harpoon gun no longer works on boats.

    Then why even have them? Sometimes I need to get back to my ship quickly....why cant I harpoon my ship?

    Unlock all armories or allow crews to choose

    Someone doesnt understand pvp....

    Anyways, this seems to be a hate on big crews vs small crews. Any. and I mean ANY true Vet knows as a solo can deal with bigger crews with ease. How often? Not a lot but its truely do able and once you know it, you feel better. But as always, Solo = Hard as it should.
    Game is built around having a Crew. No crew, is your choice.

  • @vaporishweb5960 "its inefficient usage considering that there are merms that do that for you"
    Ok but I will be on my boat again faster than if I have to swim out and WAIT for a merm to spawn. I can be back on my boat again in under a second. How is that inefficient?

    "the harpoon gun was never able to grapple the deck in the base game."
    Yes it could, I did all the commendations for it the season it came out, even before the supposed buff (nerf) where they made it work on LESS parts of the ship, but also made it so that you don't lose ammo for missing when they don't give you a way to know if you are in range or not.

    "larger crews can make better use of the harpoon gun compared to smaller crews, which isn't balanced."
    Larger crews can make better use of the sword compared to smaller crews, which isn't balanced. If I have 4 people running at me with swords, I cannot hope to ever win or defend myself. The sword vortex consumes all. Are sword unbalanced and broken because a bigger crew is always stronger than a smaller crew? How do you expect game balance to work if they make it so that one guy on a sloop is somehow competitive with 4 guys on a gally? 4 guys on a gally will ALWAYS be competitively more advantageous than being one guy on a boat with one cannon per side. Even without the grapple, you were still screwed because they could shoot 2 cannons at you AND still have 2 PERMANENT BOARDERS you have to contend with. I really do not know what you hope to accomplish with this post, because it would inherently be unbalanced to make the sloop "balanced" against the gally.

    bLuuNdErBoMbS. Ok and what happens when you use the 4 on your ship and they have sent the same 2 guys 20 times? Do you have that many blunderbombs? What if they snipe at you from the water while boarding? Then you can't blunder the ladder. You are ALWAYS INHERENTLY at a disadvantage when it's 4 people vs 1. You will not win most times, and that is balanced.

  • I agree with the overall point that Rare *didn't understand the nuances of PvP (I think SonicBob is doing a great job and pushing some great changes, I think it's possible we see a blunderbuss revert/change under his direction), but a lot of your points on the harpoon gun I think are just avoidable, as someone who solo sloops a lot when server wiping emissaries.

    Now, after knocking the harpoon boarder off, the solo can't go about being efficient with other tasks; the mere threat of the second board causes enough distraction to waste more of the solo's time defending against the same boarder.

    A harpoon boarder is loud, you don't have to be distracted by them, you'll 100% hear when they're an active threat by the "Thunk" in your ship's hull.

    For example, if I'm spiraling a bigger boat, I'm having to deal with the same boarder over and over and over again instead of punching holes, sending chains, and denying the other crew their cannon line, wasting even more of my time fixing avoidable repairs and turning winnable fights into exhausting slogs.

    On a sloop, you don't have to take a whole lot of time to blunder someone off ladder, simply hop off cannon, spin around, jump and shoot. Then turn around and resume cannoning. You don't have to run up wheel and hold your blunderbuss waiting. Guard by mast, wait til he peeks ladder, shoot. If you don't have time to play peekaboo, just spam some blunderbombs and turn around and start cannoning.

    In addition, the Harpoon Gun can effectively one-shot a solo at range. If, for example, I peek to snipe the boarder from the water, they can yoink me off the boat, which is oftentimes WORSE than dying. I've sunk too many times from being yoinked off my boat by a dude in the water.

    Again, the harpoon gun is loud, and takes a very long time to reload. The only time you should be peeking to snipe him from water is if you know they aren't reloaded. It's also pretty difficult to yoink someone from a moving boat with it, and sniping someone should really only take like half a second. If they snag you during that time, that's just a well rewarded skill shot, no different than hitting a two tap from water.

    The Harpoon Gun also allows boarders to hit the top of the ladder, which reduces reaction time.

    It allows them to hit the top of ladder after a loud "thunk" and 2 to 5 seconds of travel time. You should have more than enough time to react.

    Anytime someone is off their boat it's an immediate disadvantage for their team unless they can actually make it count. Your job is to make sure it doesn't count, and capitalize on their disadvantage. If a guy is in the water for 2 minutes spam harpooning your boat and you deny him every time, that should be crippling for the enemy team, as long as you're multitasking and not just sitting at wheel the entire 2 minutes with your blunder aimed at ladder.

  • @burnbacon

    Alr, 80% of your speaking points are attacks on myself and not my arguments, which I find rather rude, anyways.

    Solo = Hard Mode.
    It happens, until you make it easy.

    I'll just repeat what I said to someone else, while it's true that solos will always be at a disadvantage, there is a difference between natural disadvantages like having fewer people and unnatural disadvantages like poorly designed game mechanics that unnecessarily widen the gap between larger crews and smaller crews. Or more simply put, larger crews can make better use of the harpoon gun compared to smaller crews, which isn't balanced.

    I was fully capable of destroying larger crews pre-harpoon gun despite being solo. However, with the addition of the harpoon gun, fights (and especially spirals) that usually ended in wins have turned into slogs because the other crew can send one dude who wrecks my time economy through successive boarding threats.

    How does Pvp define solo play?

    It's poorly worded and I don't necessarily know what you're trying to get at, so for the sake of time I'm not going to define what Solo PvP is

    I am what many would consider a veteran player.
    Likewise, but not an excuse to use.

    You're mistaking excuse with context, I'm saying I've been around long before all of this stuff has been added so I have experience with before and after

    first started playing SoT shortly before the release of seasons
    Ooooh...your not that much of a vet after all.

    I don't see how that's relevant to anything other than being an insult. I really don't care if you consider me a vet or not, that's why I said, "many people," not "all people"

    One weapon less to use, and its always a hit or miss, with long loading times. Once they land, has a delay before switching weapons.

    Again, the role of a boarder isn't to kill, it's to distract and disrupt. They don't need two guns lower the anchor and stay alive long enough for their crew to bring the boat around. They could just hop in the water and keep threating to board if I try to raise anchor.

    I've sunk too many times from being yoinked off my boat by a dude in the water.
    By a Grapple or Harpoon? So maybe...dont stand where they can hit you?

    By harpoon gun. The entire crux of my argument is that the harpoon gun shouldn't be so powerful that one guy in the water can force me to hide away from my ship's critical tasks out of fear of being essentially one-shot. Your solution to the problem proves my point.

    Once the boarder is up and the anchor is down, as long as the boarder is alive, the solo is paralyzed.
    Throw some Traps...use Spears...throw some random chests around your deck. Set it on fire...Heck a blow dart works (explosion)
    So many choices here.

    So your solution is "kill the boarder?" You're right, there are a lot of options there, if only it were that simple.

    To somebody who doesn't understand PvP, that sounds like a good idea. To people who understand the mechanics of PvP, it's just awful.

    Talking about yourself in this sentence? Im confused. :(

    Why the insults? What's the point? Did I ever do anything to you? Are you hurt in some way?It's rude and doesn't attack my argument

    Then why even have them? Sometimes I need to get back to my ship quickly....why cant I harpoon my ship?

    That's a fair point, I wouldn't be opposed to harpoons working on people's own boats other than the inconsistency, but it's still broken against other boats.

    Unlock all armories or allow crews to choose

    Someone doesnt understand pvp....

    Ad hominem, and you're neglecting times when not in PvP where it's nice to have other crews fool around. There was one time after a fight where I became a gally's fifth man and would have liked to switch to my meat cleaver throwing knives so I could do a little RP, but their armory was locked, and it couldn't be unlocked even after alliancing.

    Anyways, this seems to be a hate on big crews vs small crews. Any. and I mean ANY true Vet knows as a solo can deal with bigger crews with ease. How often? Not a lot but its truely do able and once you know it, you feel better. But as always, Solo = Hard as it should.
    Game is built around having a Crew. No crew, is your choice.

    This is not hate on big crews vs small crews, this is response to a game mechanic that disproportionately helps larger crews. To reiterate, larger crews will always have a natural advantage of having more people. However, there is an unnatural advantage gained through the harpoon gun that benefits larger crews and not smaller crews, widening the natural gap between the crew sizes to a disgusting degree. I'm not saying solo shouldn't be hard, but larger crews should not be given unnatural advantages over smaller crews.

    Also, you act like I haven't fought bigger boats before as a solo. I do it almost every session. I've been doing it for years. I've sunk many, many, bigger boats, and I know when a bad game mechanic is interfering with normal play. Fixing the harpoon gun won't make soloing easier, nor should soloing be easier, but it'll make the game more balanced.

  • @vaporishweb5960 said in The State of Solo Play:

    • The harpoon gun gives larger crews a significant advantage over smaller crews, especially solos.

    Are you sure? Have you actually tried using that thing? 😂

  • @worst-tdmer

    I understand what you're saying, but I still have some objections

    Now, after knocking the harpoon boarder off, the solo can't go about being efficient with other tasks; the mere threat of the second board causes enough distraction to waste more of the solo's time defending against the same boarder.

    A harpoon boarder is loud, you don't have to be distracted by them, you'll 100% hear when they're an active threat by the "Thunk" in your ship's hull.

    My point is, when I hear the thunk of the hull and the new active threat, now I am forced to make sure that nobody gets on the ladder, wasting my time. I'm not concerned with the boarder if I hear a missed shot or they hit a part that they can't grapple. You're right, but you're missing my point.

    On a sloop, you don't have to take a whole lot of time to blunder someone off ladder, simply hop off cannon, spin around, jump and shoot. Then turn around and resume cannoning. You don't have to run up wheel and hold your blunderbuss waiting. Guard by mast, wait til he peeks ladder, shoot. If you don't have time to play peekaboo, just spam some blunderbombs and turn around and start cannoning.

    I never said that I was waiting at the top of my ladder. I do exactly as you do, I have thousands of hours in PvP with some sweaty people, I've sunk streamers like IDbz, Apperjacks, Bamyy, Colem1ner, WorldofChap, etc. etc. in 1v1s. I still clear emissaries off a server despite the harpoon gun. Do not make assumptions because you think I'm someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. My point is, having to repeatedly get off cannon to get the same boarder off is a waste of my time in the first place, and I'll lose the advantage of keeping them off their cannon line, meaning I'll also end up taking damage then I then have to spend time repairing. Again, turning fights into slogs. Not impossible to win, but an unnecessary amount of added difficulty from a mechanic that only benefits larger crews.

    Again, the harpoon gun is loud, and takes a very long time to reload. The only time you should be peeking to snipe him from water is if you know they aren't reloaded. It's also pretty difficult to yoink someone from a moving boat with it, and sniping someone should really only take like half a second. If they snag you during that time, that's just a well rewarded skill shot, no different than hitting a two tap from water.

    Yes, you need to be smart about peaking. But I shouldn't be afraid of being on top deck for the mere possibility of the one-shot, even if it's difficult.

    The Harpoon Gun also allows boarders to hit the top of the ladder, which reduces reaction time.

    It allows them to hit the top of ladder after a loud "thunk" and 2 to 5 seconds of travel time. You should have more than enough time to react.

    Most of the time I am able to react in time, but it still comes from a mechanic that only really benefits larger crews.

    Anytime someone is off their boat it's an immediate disadvantage for their team unless they can actually make it count. Your job is to make sure it doesn't count, and capitalize on their disadvantage. If a guy is in the water for 2 minutes spam harpooning your boat and you deny him every time, that should be crippling for the enemy team, as long as you're multitasking and not just sitting at wheel the entire 2 minutes with your blunder aimed at ladder.

    Not necessarily, the repeated threats that get me off cannons or up from below deck inhibit how much I can capitalize. I might get 2 cannons off before I need to give up my advantage to defend against the same boarder again. Even when doing everything optimally, just enough time is wasted for soloing to become unnecessarily difficult because of a game mechanic that benefits larger crews.

  • @uluckyhitreg

    Solos rarely get an opportunity to board in a decent fight, let alone send harpoon boarders often

  • @vaporishweb5960

    My point is, when I hear the thunk of the hull and the new active threat, now I am forced to make sure that nobody gets on the ladder, wasting my time. I'm not concerned with the boarder if I hear a missed shot or they hit a part that they can't grapple. You're right, but you're missing my point.

    You did say "The mere threat of the second board" was enough to distract/waste your time. Either way this process should only take a few seconds, blunder if he peeks, bomb if he doesn't, back to cannons.

    My point is, having to repeatedly get off cannon to get the same boarder off is a waste of my time in the first place, and I'll lose the advantage of keeping them off their cannon line, meaning I'll also end up taking damage then I then have to spend time repairing. Again, turning fights into slogs. Not impossible to win, but an unnecessary amount of added difficulty from a mechanic that only benefits larger crews.

    That missing person is terrible for the other crew if they can't capitalize (assuming you gave them constant pressure before they sent). They'll have 1 person max shooting while the others take care of the ship (or one guy doing both for sloops). If you knock the boarder off and immediately get a bag on the MC, that can be a win condition (more complicated for gallys but still a huge advantage for you).

    Yes, you need to be smart about peaking. But I shouldn't be afraid of being on top deck for the mere possibility of the one-shot, even if it's difficult.

    I don't see how this is any different than getting two tapped from water. Both can be avoided, both are skill shots, both can be game winners.

    Not necessarily, the repeated threats that get me off cannons or up from below deck inhibit how much I can capitalize. I might get 2 cannons off before I need to give up my advantage to defend against the same boarder again. Even when doing everything optimally, just enough time is wasted for soloing to become unnecessarily difficult because of a game mechanic that benefits larger crews.

    If you're below deck you aren't really capitalizing as much as stabilizing, and you just have to make those cannons count. Go for bags, set gallys on fire, send a cursed/bonecaller, etc.

    Pretty much every mechanic in this game benefits larger crews more than smaller crews. Harpoon guns can definitely benefit solos though (chasing runners). Ultimately if you don't want to deal with the harpoon boarder, you just have to hit your skeetshot or have enough pressure to deny them the opportunity in the first place. I also think it needs to be said that if a bigger crew has just a single person that is near your skill level, you're likely cooked, with or without the harpoon. If a harpoon boarder is ladder juking long enough to be a problem, consistently eating before reharpooning, and the enemy crew is dealing with your pressure well enough to shoot without needing him back, they're just a decent crew, and your chances as a solo were already going to be rough. These are just consequences of playing the game on hard mode.

  • @worst-tdmer

    You did say "The mere threat of the second board" was enough to distract/waste your time. Either way this process should only take a few seconds, blunder if he peeks, bomb if he doesn't, back to cannons.

    My issue is with the fact that it takes any extra time at all. Seconds count in a fight, a poorly spent second can lose a fight. I give up advantage for those couple of seconds off cannon having to reacquire their cannonline. For each second that I turn, I relent my attack and allow opportunity for counterplay. That is unacceptable to me, and it is caused by a bad game mechanic.

    That missing person is terrible for the other crew if they can't capitalize (assuming you gave them constant pressure before they sent). They'll have 1 person max shooting while the others take care of the ship (or one guy doing both for sloops). If you knock the boarder off and immediately get a bag on the MC, that can be a win condition (more complicated for gallys but still a huge advantage for you).

    They're still causing the solo to spend extra time no matter what they do, and that extra time isn't insignificant.

    I don't see how this is any different than getting two tapped from water. Both can be avoided, both are skill shots, both can be game winners.

    The difference is between being one tapped and two tapped. A one tap is impossible to counter once it has landed. You can dodge a two tap, you can pre-eat a two tap, you can peak and have some counterplay. It's too risky to peak a 1 tap, can't pre-eat a 1 tap, cant dodge a second killing shot. There's a massive difference. It takes half as much skill to hit one hit-scan shot instead of two.

    If you're below deck you aren't really capitalizing as much as stabilizing, and you just have to make those cannons count. Go for bags, set gallys on fire, send a cursed/bonecaller, etc.

    "Just have to make those cannons count" is just telling me to overcome an imbalance caused by a deeper game mechanic issue and it oversimplifies the complexities around PvP. Every single day I log into SoT, I try to "make those cannons count." Before harpoon guns I had to "make those cannons count" and after harpoon guns, I had to "make those cannons count." It's not a valid solution to my issue. How am I supposed to "make those cannons count" if I need to reset my cannons every 2 shots?

    Pretty much every mechanic in this game benefits larger crews more than smaller crews.

    Agreed, I still think that the harpoon gun is an egregious case and unnatural

    Harpoon guns can definitely benefit solos though (chasing runners).

    The costs far outweigh the benefits in my eyes, and there are substitutes, like cannons of rage, to deal with runners.

    Ultimately if you don't want to deal with the harpoon boarder, you just have to hit your skeetshot or have enough pressure to deny them the opportunity in the first place.

    If I could hit 100% of my skeetshots, I would. Again, I've been aiming for all of my skeetshots before harpoons, and I am aiming for all of my skeetshots now. It doesn't solve the problem. Applying pressure typically only works on other solos and duos, brigs and gallys, especially inexperienced brigs and gallys, tend to send boarders no matter the water level in my experience.

    I also think it needs to be said that if a bigger crew has just a single person that is near your skill level, you're likely cooked, with or without the harpoon.

    Agreed, but that's natural for playing solo

    If a harpoon boarder is ladder juking long enough to be a problem, consistently eating before reharpooning, and the enemy crew is dealing with your pressure well enough to shoot without needing him back, they're just a decent crew, and your chances as a solo were already going to be rough.

    Agreed, but that still doesn't address the fact that the harpoon gun is giving them an unnatural advantage

    These are just consequences of playing the game on hard mode.

    I understand that solo is supposed to be difficult, but the harpoon gun, again, just gives larger crews too much opportunity to attack solos with not much in return for the solo.

    We will always be at odds, I think, you have the "it isn't that bad, just put up with it" mindset, while I have the "This change isn't what I signed up for, it's a systemic issue that shouldn't be my burden" mindset

  • @vaporishweb5960

    All I can say is I've done a lot of solo server wiping post-harpoon addition, and not once have I thought "oh no, this guy has a harpoon", regardless of the ship size. If anything, them having a harpoon makes me think it'll be an even easier sink than I thought it was gonna be, as very few (if any) sweaty players use a harpoon gun outside of chase/PvE situations.

    It's just genuinely never been an issue and I have a hard time seeing this from your POV.

  • @VaporishWeb5960 Why can't you address my points?

  • @potatosord

    Ok but I will be on my boat again faster than if I have to swim out and WAIT for a merm to spawn. I can be back on my boat again in under a second. How is that inefficient?

    It's inefficient because you are planning for failure. You're giving up a weapon slot to save yourself from falling off the boat... when you can just practice not falling off the boat. I really don't see how someone can fall off the boat often enough to justify the loss of the weapon slot, you're just hurting yourself in the end if you ever need to TDM. They even nerfed popcorns and blunderbombs to stop people from falling off the boat. If you fell off the boat, you were making other mistakes that need to be addressed, not supplement it with a harpoon gun.

    "the harpoon gun was never able to grapple the deck in the base game."
    Yes it could, I did all the commendations for it the season it came out, even before the supposed buff (nerf) where they made it work on LESS parts of the ship, but also made it so that you don't lose ammo for missing when they don't give you a way to know if you are in range or not.

    Yes, I misspoke about it grappling onto decks. I was referring to being able to shoot out of cannons and grapple the deck, which was impossible when it was added. On sloop there weren't many opportunities to get a harpoon board without touching the ladder, and that hasn't changed. However, if the boarder was hit off the ladder, they oftentimes didn't have the range or reload speed to get back up again, so it was tolerable. Now with the added range, they can keep going for board attempts, even if they miss, which is broken.

    "larger crews can make better use of the harpoon gun compared to smaller crews, which isn't balanced."
    Larger crews can make better use of the sword compared to smaller crews, which isn't balanced. If I have 4 people running at me with swords, I cannot hope to ever win or defend myself. The sword vortex consumes all. Are sword unbalanced and broken because a bigger crew is always stronger than a smaller crew? How do you expect game balance to work if they make it so that one guy on a sloop is somehow competitive with 4 guys on a gally? 4 guys on a gally will ALWAYS be competitively more advantageous than being one guy on a boat with one cannon per side. Even without the grapple, you were still screwed because they could shoot 2 cannons at you AND still have 2 PERMANENT BOARDERS you have to contend with. I really do not know what you hope to accomplish with this post, because it would inherently be unbalanced to make the sloop "balanced" against the gally.

    You're straw manning my argument a little bit. My logic is:

    A gally can send boarders more often. The harpoon gun helps boarders. Therefore, the harpoon gun can help galleons more often.

    A sloop cannot send boarders often. The harpoon gun helps boarders. Therefore, the harpoon gun cannot help the sloop often.

    You're pointing out that the galleon has more people, so they can output more DPS.

    There are subtle differences in the argument. In my case, the harpoon gun has more utility to someone on a gally than someone on a sloop. I.e. it makes more sense to use it in a loadout to spam boards. The solo on the other hand finds little to no utility because they aren't supposed to be off the boat all that much during a fight. So, the harpoon gun intrinsically helps larger boats that can board more often.

    Your argument on the other hand just supposes that more people = more swords = more DPS than the solo. While true, the sword doesn't intrinsically help the gally, it's the number of people that does. It makes equal sense for a solo to run a sword as well as a crewmember on a gally to run a sword. Unlike the harpoon, where it makes more sense for someone on the gally to run it, and less sense for a slooper to run it.

    This is what I mean by natural advantages and unnatural advantages. The gally will always naturally have a numbers advantage. However, the harpoon gun gives a boost specifically to those who can board, which are bigger boats. Thus, there is an unnatural imbalance that the harpoon gun creates.

    bLuuNdErBoMbS. Ok and what happens when you use the 4 on your ship and they have sent the same 2 guys 20 times? Do you have that many blunderbombs? What if they snipe at you from the water while boarding? Then you can't blunder the ladder. You are ALWAYS INHERENTLY at a disadvantage when it's 4 people vs 1. You will not win most times, and that is balanced.

    You'd be right that is balanced. The solo will always be at a disadvantage because of numbers. That is not my argument, you're attacking a strawman.

    My argument is: The harpoon gun creates an unnatural imbalance where it makes more sense for gallies to use, and less sense for sloops to use, giving larger boats an advantage that is separate from just crew size alone.

  • @vaporishweb5960 said in The State of Solo Play:

    @uluckyhitreg

    Solos rarely get an opportunity to board in a decent fight, let alone send harpoon boarders often

    Not sure how long you've been playing, but this is just not the case lol. I've seen videos way back when of Blurbs (a solo player), cannoning out, gets a deck shot, kills everyone on the galleon, sets it on fire/rams the ship, cannons out, gets a perfect shot and lands on his ship, turns and sinks them. There's dozens of other streamers who board while playing solo in an epic fight. Solos rarely get an opportunity to board in a decent fight? What???

  • @europa4033

    I'm not necessarily saying that solos don't board, but they are certainly taking a gamble if their boat isn't safe. Solos generally don't board when under fire or have damage because it's suicide. Bigger boats can and do board while under fire/have damage.

    Generally, solos should stay on the boat until the right opportunity presents itself, so they board less often, so the harpoon gun helps them less. Hence, they rarely board unless they're committing suicide or can guarantee their boat's safety.

  • @vaporishweb5960 Your argument is that the grapple is somehow overpowered when used by galleys but not when in use by a defending sloop. You outright deny that it has utility, and despite it taking a weapon slot, all I need is a sword to defend with. I can kite well enough that I will be fine against most gunners. You ignored what I meant by my point about 4 swords. You say the grapple is broken because a 4 man with it can make better utility of it, but the same 4 man crew can also make better utility of anything you also have access to. They can all equip snipers to try to quad cross you, they can all equip blowdarts to cover your ship in mini explosions or pelt you with poison, they can all equip sword to spam kill you in a sword vortex. All tools will be more effective for larger crews. Boarding with a full bucket is more effective for large crews so does that make it broken? I use the sword example to showcase another time where something will always be broken in favour of the larger crew because that is literally the nature of larger crews. You still didn't address running out of blunderbombs, or if two people stack your ladder(s), so you can't have time to get both off. They will be able to spam boarders no matter what to deplete your resources. Even with two men off the boat you will struggle to be able to sink a galley while they keep boarding.

  • @potatosord

    Again, you're missing the point entirely, so I'm going to dumb this down as much as possible for you.

    A solo has a small incentive to use the harpoon gun (They're not really off the boat)

    A gally crew member has a large incentive to use the harpoon gun (They can afford to be off the boat)

    A solo has an equal incentive to use any other weapon as a gally crew member, even though four gally crew members technically overpower the solo

    @vaporishweb5960 Your argument is that the grapple is somehow overpowered when used by galleys but not when in use by a defending sloop. You outright deny that it has utility, and despite it taking a weapon slot, all I need is a sword to defend with. I can kite well enough that I will be fine against most gunners.

    You ignored what I meant by my point about 4 swords. You say the grapple is broken because a 4 man with it can make better utility of it, but the same 4 man crew can also make better utility of anything you also have access to.

    I did not ignore your anecdote; I acknowledged that it's a false anecdote because of the reason I stated above. The sword does not intrinsically help bigger boats even though more people can create more DPS. It does not translate over.

    They can all equip snipers to try to quad cross you, they can all equip blowdarts to cover your ship in mini explosions or pelt you with poison, they can all equip sword to spam kill you in a sword vortex. All tools will be more effective for larger crews. Boarding with a full bucket is more effective for large crews so does that make it broken? I use the sword example to showcase another time where something will always be broken in favour of the larger crew because that is literally the nature of larger crews.

    All of these examples are all the same as the sword anecdote. None of these items are intrinsically helpful for bigger boats, there just more of them with more people. The harpoon gun is intrinsically helpful to larger crews because larger crews can use its utility while smaller crews can't really afford to do so.

    Comparing any of these items to the harpoon gun is like comparing an apple to an orange, they're false equivalencies. The swords scale with crew size, the harpoon gun compounds with crew size

    You still didn't address running out of blunderbombs, or if two people stack your ladder(s), so you can't have time to get both off. They will be able to spam boarders no matter what to deplete your resources. Even with two men off the boat you will struggle to be able to sink a galley while they keep boarding.

    I did address it, and I'll address it again, but dumb it down this time.

    Your ultimate point with the blunderbomb example is: " You are always inherently at a disadvantage when it's 4 people vs 1" which isn't what I'm talking about, I agree with you there.

    You already see what my argument is, but you haven't provided anything against it. For your point to work, you would need to prove to me how the harpoon gun isn't intrinsically more helpful for boats that can afford to send boarders, which you can't, because it's objectively true.

    Again, the natural advantage is crew size, the unnatural advantage (those that should be avoided) is boarders being stronger which only benefits crews that can board regularly.

    If you require that I respond to the blunderbomb question directly, let me ask you this: does the harpoon gun make that dilemma easier or harder for the solo? It easily makes it harder, with the solo having to expend up to 5x more blunders per boarder. It is no longer just a numbers advantage; there is a new additional advantage granted by the harpoon gun.

    If solos could board like gallys, there wouldn't be an issue. If solos had a separate utility for defense that kills or otherwise stops successive boards, there wouldn't be an issue.

  • After reading through all the comments, arguments and counterarguments, the only thing that could make things a bit more "fair" is if bigger ships had more boarding points - though I'll right away say that it likely won't ever happen.

    For example, on the back of the ship (1 for brig, galley both sides of the balcony). So they have to guard more points / be spread out.

    But in the end, whether you'd like to admit it or not, the main issue is still you playing solo. I see no other way to change harpoon gun to be more "balanced" (as it is already balanced fine) if you're playing the game as intended, a.k.a. not solo.

    That's just my 2 cents.

  • If solos could board like gallys, there wouldn't be an issue.

    Ive seen plenty and I myself have, boarded like Galleon crew. Its not difficult and not an issue. Its the players mindset that makes it so.

    If solos had a separate utility for defense that kills or otherwise stops successive boards

    Traps, Spears, Fire, Blunderbombs, Blundershot, Snakes, Blowdarts....list. All good tools.

    BUT in the very end, Solo was never meant to be a thing. Rare wants you to form crews, if you play solo, and struggle. That is on you.

  • Would be nice if solo sloops only had one ladder given the dominance of boarding meta. Grappling gun has removed any skill in boarding and allows 5 attempts of success.
    Yes, you can trap the top of ladders but these are easily dispensed with as a result of incoming fire.

  • @burnbacon

    If solos could board like gallys, there wouldn't be an issue.
    Ive seen plenty and I myself have, boarded like Galleon crew. Its not difficult and not an issue. Its the players mindset that makes it so.

    It is physically impossible for solos to board like a galleon crew, you will not board if you ship has taken any damage, you will not board if you are being spiraled, you will not board if you can't guarantee the safety of your ship. Doing so is suicide, and you will sink. Larger boats can afford to do all of those things. So no, it is not mindset, it is mechanics.

    All of that is fine and balanced, until you add the harpoon gun, which makes all of those methods of boarding above 5x more effective, which solos - and smaller crews in general that can't send as many boarders - can't do

    If solos had a separate utility for defense that kills or otherwise stops successive boards
    Traps, Spears, Fire, Blunderbombs, Blundershot, Snakes, Blowdarts....list. All good tools.

    Of the things in that list, blunderbombs and blundershots are the only truly viable and reliable methods of boarder protection, and of those, skeetshots and spears are the only things that can kill or otherwise stop successive boards, and spears are slow and limited in number.

    Skillshots like skeetshots aren't an effective solution to a mechanical issue, because it requires the player to overcome a power imbalance caused by an unnatural advantage. It's the same as saying "hit your shots." Before the addition of the harpoon gun, the players was already trying to "hit their shots", and after the addition of the harpoon gun, the player was trying to "hit their shots." It isn't a valid solution. It's not that simple.

    BUT in the very end, Solo was never meant to be a thing. Rare wants you to form crews, if you play solo, and struggle. That is on you.

    @R3vanNS

    But in the end, whether you'd like to admit it or not, the main issue is still you playing solo. I see no other way to change harpoon gun to be more "balanced" (as it is already balanced fine) if you're playing the game as intended, a.k.a. not solo.

    For these "solos should suffer because they're solo" arguments, there is a fundamental disagreement that cannot be overcome or disproven. I personally think that it makes sense for solos to struggle against bigger crews because of crew size, but not because of asymmetric utilities. If you think solos should suffer because of asymmetric utilities, I don't think I could change your mind through any purely logical argument.

    I am interested though, in where people who think this draw the line for when something becomes too asymmetric. Surely you guys wouldn't support a hypothetical addition like a mortar cannon that requires two players to use that can cause keg-like explosions that can effectively oneshot solo sloops, which suggests that there is some kind of line to be drawn as to when something becomes too asymmetric.

    I think I've properly laid out my points in my essay and rebuttals. I am getting tired of arguing on an online forum, it's not something I enjoy doing often. While I may still respond to some new valid points I see, I may leave future comments alone if I think they have been previously answered in old chains.

  • @vaporishweb5960

    @R3vanNS

    But in the end, whether you'd like to admit it or not, the main issue is still you playing solo. I see no other way to change harpoon gun to be more "balanced" (as it is already balanced fine) if you're playing the game as intended, a.k.a. not solo.

    For these "solos should suffer because they're solo" arguments, there is a fundamental disagreement that cannot be overcome or disproven. I personally think that it makes sense for solos to struggle against bigger crews because of crew size, but not because of asymmetric utilities. If you think solos should suffer because of asymmetric utilities, I don't think I could change your mind through any purely logical argument.

    I am interested though, in where people who think this draw the line for when something becomes too asymmetric. Surely you guys wouldn't support a hypothetical addition like a mortar cannon that requires two players to use that can cause keg-like explosions that can effectively oneshot solo sloops, which suggests that there is some kind of line to be drawn as to when something becomes too asymmetric.

    I think I've properly laid out my points in my essay and rebuttals. I am getting tired of arguing on an online forum, it's not something I enjoy doing often. While I may still respond to some new valid points I see, I may leave future comments alone if I think they have been previously answered in old chains.

    First I'd like to reassure you that there's no hidden agenda behind what I've said, nor any malice.

    I just genuinely believe that it's "asymetrical" only for solo players, and that it's working as intended (that it's decently balanced).

    As in - I just simply don't agree with you, whether you typed 2 words, or an entire novel.

    However, I do respect your effort to type out all of your points in the tiniest details, which is generally a rare thing on these forums. Sadly, I still don't agree.

    That said, I've voiced my opinion and won't be pushing anymore because we won't find any middle ground here.

    Sincerely hope you'll find a way around this for yourself, as it looks like it's really annoying you. Cheers

  • @r3vanns

    I didn't mean to suggest that there's some hidden agenda or malice, I'm sorry if something I said came across that way

    Thanks for the input, cheers!

  • They probably thought that the role of a boarder is to kill the crew; thus, a leaf blower would favor the defenders.

    No bro, I think we both know why blunderbuss got nerfed

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