@graiis I guess that's for Rare to decide :)
Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.
@graiis I really appreciate the fact that you don't agree with the main reason I would personally like it, but you are acknowledging another benefit. I agree, it smooths the rewards across the voyage slightly better in a way which feels more rewarding to the player, whilst at the same time keeping the core aspect of the game intact - your loot is still the most valuable item you have which needs to be defended from thieves and handed in at an outpost, to gain the majority of your reward. I agree as well I think it's a case of exactly how the lows are delivered in this case, and I think it is very feasible to deliver the lows whilst also providing a more smooth and encouraging reward system.
@angrycoconut16 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:
@graiis I guess that's for Rare to decide :)
What is?
@angrycoconut16 Although I have seen it mentioned before including my own posts suggesting the same, you have taken a lot of well thought out time and effort to explain every detail.
It's unfortunate that some don't have open minds and just want everyone to play the game their way while others simply don't (or can't) read more than one sentence before shooting down such a well thought out alternative or compromise to the current situation.
Then of course it soon becomes another toxic thread and gets closed.
@graiis said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:
@savagetwinky after the edit, how is the pubg a bad example, that's exactly what we want! What makes pubg different that people don't treat it as a waste of time after they lose, and there is essentially no progress besides gaining skill and map knowledge? Similar game loop there. Rhetorical questions, obviously.
I thought you were comparing pubg winning to pirate legend as a goal, one is a short timer self-contained goal like getting loot, cosmetics / rep is an external progress that really has a little effect in the game, mostly cosmetic.
@admiral-rrrsole said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:
@angrycoconut16 Although I have seen it mentioned before including my own posts suggesting the same, you have taken a lot of well thought out time and effort to explain every detail.
It's unfortunate that some don't have open minds and just want everyone to play the game their way while others simply don't (or can't) read more than one sentence before shooting down such a well thought out alternative or compromise to the current situation.
Then of course it soon becomes another toxic thread and gets closed.
It's only toxic become someone comes along and basically says everyone voicing a differing opinion about whether or not something is a problem and disagreeing with the solution aren't reading the proposal.
@savagetwinky I'm not saying "everyone", I said "some". It was not directed at any individual or any side of the fence.
My post was not edited in any way so that was obviously over looked.Some times it's someone sharing my thoughts that start the name calling and abuse.
There are good points on both sides so let's remain mature adults.@admiral-rrrsole said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:
@savagetwinky I'm not saying "everyone", I said "some". It was not directed at any individual or any side of the fence.
My post was not edited in any way so it was obviously over looked.Some times someone agreeing with my thoughts starts the name calling and abuse.
There are good points on both sides so let's remain mature adults.Only some people have disagreed. You didn't specify anything other than the people that are against it, thus the some that are against it must be in the wrong. I haven't seen anyone in this thread that appears to be whom you're describing if you don't think someone's idea is complete or well thought out... try talking to an individual. Just arbitrarily labeling people as toxic and directing it to a particular idea is what starts toxic behavior.
@graiis said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:
@angrycoconut16 it would be more at high levels yes, it would keep pace with you, but should it not? You're supposedly clearing more maps, killing red skeletons, more waves before bosses, etc at higher ranks.
Whether your progress should keep pace with your level, or whether upping your faction level should become more difficult with level.
@savagetwinky I'm sorry, I read the last few replies that this thread was linked to from the main page then I read the opening post and replied without reading all of the replies (4 pages) in between.
In fact I didn't read a single post apposed to the idea and based my comment after reading (in the opening post) of a similar thread that was closed do to toxic posts.
You may or may not have noticed that was addressed to the OP.It's unfortunate that people take things too literally and think it may be a personal attack.
We have to consider that these forums are open to (and accessed by) people from all countries and continents and that not everything said has the same meaning or offensive intent in some more laid back countries.@angrycoconut16 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:
@graiis said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:
@angrycoconut16 it would be more at high levels yes, it would keep pace with you, but should it not? You're supposedly clearing more maps, killing red skeletons, more waves before bosses, etc at higher ranks.
Whether your progress should keep pace with your level, or whether upping your faction level should become more difficult with level.
I'm suggesting that you should get more rep for a mission as you get higher, since they are longer and more difficult, but since you take more rep to level, it would still be fine
Hello all. So I'm sick of merchants alliance. I'm sick of there not being any response to just how terrible it is. I think anyone who's done enough to realize how mind numbingly dull it truly is will agree with me that it needs to change and soon. Since there has been zero response to this I'm trying to find someone who will pick up my idea to prove to rare just how annoyed we are. I want someone to send a dozen live chickens to their headquarters with a note telling them to deliever the chickens to galleons grave outpost (a.k.a. the worst outpost in the game to deliver to) I think this harmless tactic would have the right sense of humor and dislike towards merchants that would get the point across and demand a response. If anyone has connections in Reddit please spread this idea!!!
@admiral-rrrsole doesn't matter who it was addressed to this is a public forum. People read it. It's better just not to make assumptions about an argument or even mention the potential toxicity. If you find something you agree with and want to contribute to the idea, if you see something you disagree with and want to point out what might be wrong, do so.
@admiral-rrrsole said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:
@angrycoconut16 Although I have seen it mentioned before including my own posts suggesting the same, you have taken a lot of well thought out time and effort to explain every detail.
It's unfortunate that some don't have open minds and just want everyone to play the game their way while others simply don't (or can't) read more than one sentence before shooting down such a well thought out alternative or compromise to the current situation.
Then of course it soon becomes another toxic thread and gets closed.
Thanks, appreciate it :) That's the bit which I find irritating. I don't want to lose the risk and tension on the seas more than anyone else, I just think a healthier system would provide a more positive experience for those who do think the current system is a little harsh (which seems to be a fair number of people)... it wouldn't negatively affect people who are already happy with the current system...
I really hope that this won't get closed. I worked hard writing the first page, I'm going to try and keep a close eye on it and stop any arguments which I see before we have 20 pages of arguments again. Opposition and disagreements are fine but there comes a point where you have to accept you won't change someones mind and just agree to disagree. Thanks for the support ^^
@savagetwinky He wasn't referring to people purely because they disagree, he was referring to the people in the last thread who were arguing and caused the thread to be closed, of which I was one. Mentioning potential toxicity is clearly important because of what happened in the last thread. I'm going to learn from my mistakes because I do not want my thread closed again.... :) Don't take it so personally man. I want to keep this open so please don't be so confrontational as that can also start arguments.
Well it is very exciting except when.....
This happened to a friend and me the other day, we were going around for about 2 hours collecting treasure, we didnt even have that many, maybe about 15 chests in all when we were going towards an outpost to cash in when all of a sudden a single player sloop started chasing us which was ok even though he seemed higher level and pretty experienced but he was unrelenting, we did not want to risk losing our ship so we kept running and fighting then all of a sudden another sloop with 2 players joins in, he first started to fire at the other sloop but then at us so now its a 3 way battle, then they focused their attacks solely on us, after running and fighting i told my friend time to stop this at which point one sloop fell back due to damage we caused them.
As we approached the outpost and ready to fight, the single player sloop fought us, we took him down and eventually sunk him just to have the other sloop with 2 guys show up and continue the fight, we started to run and after going through a storm they were still on our tail, we arrived at an outpost then the first sloop that we sunk showed up again, we somehow managed to sink them both and kill them off but the very second we finished them off a full crew galleon shows up to continue the fight against us so we kept running and fighting at this point almost another 1 or 2 hours had passed just trying to fight all these ships, I gave up and told my friend to sail out of bounds so no one could get our gold but after i left the session due to it freezing every time we approached an outpost he kept running and running for another 30 min and the galleon eventually gave up the chase.,
My point is there should be some form of balance of this, not having ship after ship after you, while it can be fun it can also be time consuming and maybe not necessarily fun after so much time going back and forth, take in mind it was also almost 2am when i got kicked out of the session.@angrycoconut16 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:
@savagetwinky He wasn't referring to people purely because they disagree, he was referring to the people in the last thread who were arguing and caused the thread to be closed, of which I was one. Mentioning potential toxicity is clearly important because of what happened in the last thread. I'm going to learn from my mistakes because I do not want my thread closed again.... :) Don't take it so personally man. I want to keep this open so please don't be so confrontational as that can also start arguments.
I don't care what he meant. I pointed out what was said in this thread.
And what makes you think I took it personally. I thought it was a poorly thought out comment and pointed out why.
@eva1977 Sounds Fun! And annoying, at the same time. My hats off to you for sailing to the Red Sea. I do the same when I have had enough. "If I can't turn in my loot...neither can you!" Next time do some "fly bys" at the outpost. One of you jump off while the other keeps sailing. Turn in a chest, catch the mermaid, wash, rinse , repeat. Works pretty well. Even if they jump off you will get one piece of loot turned in before they go do anything about it. Worst case they kill you and you are back with your partner faster then swimming out to mermaid anyway. PvP with loot on board is pointless, for both parties involved.
@touchdown1504 Yes thats precisely what I told my friend to do but for some messed up reason every time we approached an outpost the game would freeze for me so he was on his own every time we approached only after he managed to get the ship away from the outpost it would work for me again, I could only hear sounds but the images froze at the worst possible time, but take this in mind, had we been able to do that, it would probably had been about another 2 extra hours because they did drop off one or 2 of their guys just to wait for us when we attempted to drop off items so we would have to keep going to all the different outposts.
@touchdown1504 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:
@eva1977 PvP with loot on board is pointless, for both parties involved.
PvP with loot on board is the time where it is least pointless.
@angrycoconut16 ok I put that poorly.
People will always sink you. The issue at hand was completing a voyage and then have your loot ganked, so you don't get the rep or gold.
So, I was trying to say in the concept of worth while loot connected to a voyages.
Not getting sunk wasn't what I was trying to say wouldn't happen. I was saying your loot, connected to your voyage won't be as likely to be looted. Savy players could death spawn and possibly save their booty if they were sunk. The loot and it's connection to voyages is the issue at hand.
@eva1977 If you are on PC and having freezing issues, try dropping the graphics setting a notch or two. If they are chasing you, you will still turn in before they can grab you as long as you jump off at the right spot! In other words, jump closer to the turn in!
@lotrmith correct, worded poorly, it is pointless for the one carrying loot! Thus no reason to bother engaging, and every reason to simply avoid PvP altogether. No loot, game on.
@touchdown1504 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:
@lotrmith correct, worded poorly, it is pointless for the one carrying loot! Thus no reason to bother engaging, and every reason to simply avoid PvP altogether. No loot, game on.
I'm confused. You specifically said
for both parties involved
Coincidentally, with loot on board is when both parties involved have the most at stake, when tensions are highest, when it has the most point, when the aesthetic of the game is most realized. It is when attackers and defenders both have the most motivation, both to flee and to pursue, to fight and defend with the greatest fury.
You want all that to be cheapened, and I oppose that to the fullest degree.
@eva1977 So are you for or against the idea suggested in this thread?
I do agree though and PvP can sometimes be quite time consuming. Someone on another thread suggested the idea of players who are sunk being moved to a new server, to prevent people going after the same players time and time again (like you encountered, the same ship twice..) I think this is food for thought but some people didn't like the fact they couldn't get revenge on the person who sunk them if this happened which is understandable.
@fancypantzmcgee said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:
@angrycoconut16 ok I put that poorly.
People will always sink you. The issue at hand was completing a voyage and then have your loot ganked, so you don't get the rep or gold.
So, I was trying to say in the concept of worth while loot connected to a voyages.
Not getting sunk wasn't what I was trying to say wouldn't happen. I was saying your loot, connected to your voyage won't be as likely to be looted. Savy players could death spawn and possibly save their booty if they were sunk. The loot and it's connection to voyages is the issue at hand.
I still don't fully grasp what you are trying to say. Are you talking about loot and how it's transported during a voyage, or are you talking about loot in general and how it's awarded during a voyage?..
Or was your point that if loot is more valuable to the person doing the voyage, but less valuable to your attacker, they will be less likely to loot it? Because I don't think this is true at all, any loot is loot.
Sorry I'm still not with you :P
@lotrmith said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:
@touchdown1504 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:
@lotrmith correct, worded poorly, it is pointless for the one carrying loot! Thus no reason to bother engaging, and every reason to simply avoid PvP altogether. No loot, game on.
I'm confused. You specifically said
for both parties involved
Coincidentally, with loot on board is when both parties involved have the most at stake, when tensions are highest, when it has the most point, when the aesthetic of the game is most realized. It is when attackers and defenders both have the most motivation, both to flee and to pursue, to fight and defend with the greatest fury.
You want all that to be cheapened, and I oppose that to the fullest degree.
I am assuming you missed this post directly above the last one. So I am putting it here. I corrected myself, and let you know you were correct in pointing it out. Sometimes I type faster then I am thinking. Mistakes happen. That is the last reply I will be giving you, on anything. So, please don't waste your time.
"correct, worded poorly, it is pointless for the one carrying loot! Thus no reason to bother engaging, and every reason to simply avoid PvP altogether. No loot, game on."
@savagetwinky said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:
@angrycoconut16 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:
@savagetwinky He wasn't referring to people purely because they disagree, he was referring to the people in the last thread who were arguing and caused the thread to be closed, of which I was one. Mentioning potential toxicity is clearly important because of what happened in the last thread. I'm going to learn from my mistakes because I do not want my thread closed again.... :) Don't take it so personally man. I want to keep this open so please don't be so confrontational as that can also start arguments.
I don't care what he meant. I pointed out what was said in this thread.
And what makes you think I took it personally. I thought it was a poorly thought out comment and pointed out why.
Calm down. You're gonna get the thread locked. If you can disagree with people here in a civil manner, go right ahead. If not, refrain from commenting. I don't go around commenting on every idea/suggestion I disagree with in a dismissive manner.
@angrycoconut16 said in [Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.]
Or was your point that if loot is more valuable to the person doing the voyage, but less valuable to your attacker, they will be less likely to loot it? Because I don't think this is true at all, any loot is loot.
Sorry I'm still not with you :P
Yes this is the concept I'm driving at. And while you say 'loot is loot'...just no. You have never canceled a one white chicken and two pink pig mission? You have never canceled a voyage that took you way across the map for likely a single unknown X on the map?
Will this stop the PvE/PvP discord no, but I very much believe that ALL players do a risk/value assessment during different actions in the game.
Are their randos doing mindless attacking yes...it's a public game, you get wreckless players.
@fancypantzmcgee I rarely cancel animal missions for the golden ones, although I will admit since my friend showed me how much more profitable doing that is I do tend to, yes. As for sailing across the map, nope never cancelled those. I don't care I enjoy sailing in the game :)
We are getting off topic anyhow. Can I ask whether you fundamentally agree with the suggestion in the OP or not?
Or do you not, and this was your alternative solution? If that's the case then I honestly don't think that will solve the issue I'm trying to address. :)
@angrycoconut16 I do 'agree' to a fashion. In fact I think the suggestion that ALL voyage items (not just animals) should be of higher value to the voyage holder than to others that don't have he voyage. That is all my point/agreement really was. Then I alluded it may even help with the PvE /PvP tensions and we ended up here lol.
@fancypantzmcgee Okey doke. So you agree with more rewards for the voyage holder, but you want them on handing in the loot at an outpost.
My suggestion regards awarding it on voyage complete, before you sail away to an outpost/next voyage/PvP or whatever you are doing next..
Your idea is definitely an interesting one but regarding the issues I was trying to solve I think it would make them worse. Perhaps make a thread with your idea though and see what others think :)
@angrycoconut16 Yeah, I don't think simply making loot more valuable to the voyage holder will make much of a difference. Some people are gonna attack on sight regardless of whatever loot the voyage holder has on board. I've been attacked plenty of times for no reason when I haven't even had loot.
Awarding XP at voyage completion helps with this issue. But hey, maybe both of your ideas should be combined! :)@touchdown1504 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:
@lotrmith said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:
@touchdown1504 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:
@lotrmith correct, worded poorly, it is pointless for the one carrying loot! Thus no reason to bother engaging, and every reason to simply avoid PvP altogether. No loot, game on.
I'm confused. You specifically said
for both parties involved
Coincidentally, with loot on board is when both parties involved have the most at stake, when tensions are highest, when it has the most point, when the aesthetic of the game is most realized. It is when attackers and defenders both have the most motivation, both to flee and to pursue, to fight and defend with the greatest fury.
You want all that to be cheapened, and I oppose that to the fullest degree.
I am assuming you missed this post directly above the last one. So I am putting it here. I corrected myself, and let you know you were correct in pointing it out. Sometimes I type faster then I am thinking. Mistakes happen. That is the last reply I will be giving you, on anything. So, please don't waste your time.
"correct, worded poorly, it is pointless for the one carrying loot! Thus no reason to bother engaging, and every reason to simply avoid PvP altogether. No loot, game on."
I guess we're just repeating ourselves now?
**Coincidentally, with loot on board is when both parties involved have the most at stake, when tensions are highest, when it has the most point, when the aesthetic of the game is most realized. It is when attackers and defenders both have the most motivation, both to flee and to pursue, to fight and defend with the greatest fury.
You want all that to be cheapened, and I oppose that to the fullest degree.**
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