The PvP/PvE Conundrum

@ocmathew1000 Not my problem. You obviously love picking easy targets who spend more time in game then you do to get your loot. Players like you are the reason the game will die quick. Plain and simple.

@xgelitedev said in The PvP/PvE Conundrum:

@chitown-bear
No the game doesnt need to cater to the small player base that wants pve only in order to keep new content coming. The majority of games out there that continue to bring in revenue and have longetivy are pvp based. Not all obviously.

Most of those games have no PvE. Also very few of those games have the rewards for PvP linked so closely to the PvE. If people don't PvE then there is no reward at all for doing PvP. Those games that have a PvPvE system, are dying. Not bringing in tons of revenue. They will need to do something to keep people playing. And do it very soon.

@chitown-bear said in The PvP/PvE Conundrum:

@xgelitedev They don't need to cater to PVE. I love the game as is.

Actually the devs need to cater more to PvE so that PvP players won't get as bored as soon as they do now; more lush PvE content in a wide PvP arena means a bigger satisfying challenge for both PvE and PvP players.

@savagetwinky Why do you not want more people to enjoy the game?

This game was also not advertised as an arena type PVP game and that is the opposite of what the developers said they wanted for it.

The only changes they would have to make for a PVE server would be to use the same code that prevents you from damaging your teammates to cover all players.

They would need to add a little code so only your team members could perform actions on your ship.

They would need to add code so that only those who discovered a treasure could handle it.

Those simple changes would make those who dislike the PVP in the game happy. It wouldn't change the game at all for those of us who prefer the PVP servers.

They would have to do nothing else to cater to the PVE players. Some people enjoy cosmetic collectables, and that is progression enough for them.

@savagetwinky The PvP community will continue to have the better end of everything. Players who spend more time in game to get loot stolen by someone who just relies on others work. It's pathetic and shows a players worth. Doesn't matter what they implement and what they balance. The fact is the mix is broken and will remain a detriment to this games survival.

@desolate-hollow Did you not read my original post? I much prefer PVE over PVP. I spend about 90% of my time online, doing PVE. Please don't assume my intentions.

Also, I earn far more doing PVE than PVP. PVP is a gamble, they may have a lot of loot, they may have none. PVE is guaranteed loot.
Also, you can't steal from what someone has already turned in.
When I PVE, I turn in my loot at least once an hour. If someone carries around many hours worth of loot before turning it in, that's their own fault.

@desolate-hollow said in The PvP/PvE Conundrum:

@mythicalfable If you put yourself in the situation to be grieved then you deserve it at that point. If someones at the outpost waiting for you then sail to the next one... at least you wouldn't need to worry about being sunk when you sail to the next one. LoL

You didn't understand my point.

@shadeofdead That is a good point. I can't think of a single game that is doing well that is PvPvE that doesn't have gated off PvE areas.

One might be out there, but every one I have seen that tried it has either changed or died.

@ocmathew1000 said in The PvP/PvE Conundrum:

@desolate-hollow But if all the PVE people move to a special PVE server, I will no longer enjoy the server I am on (The PVP server I assume).
You change MY game by leaving it. Like I originally mentioned, right now, a certain percentage of people are hardcore PVP, and those seem to be the ones people have an issue with.
If you leave to goto another server, you by necessity increase the percentage of people left on the server that are HARDCORE PVP. You effectively make my game harder and less enjoyable.

Yes, you could always just stop playing, which would have the same effect, but you bought this game knowing that PVP was an integral part of the experience. Why would you do that?

Do you have any idea that could help with PVE/PVP balance that DOESN'T require splitting the community?

You said it yourself. They have a choice. Leave forever, or hopefully someone puts in a PvE server and they stay and the game stays alive. Either way, what you are scared about either does, or does not happen in the long run. You are arguing against yourself.

@savagetwinky Stolen by players who aren't willing to do anything other than steal from hard working players*

@savagetwinky Okay, you add more PvP content. You like PvP and the idea of taking things from people, that's they point you say.

How are you going to do that when people just stop doing PvE because they either leave or the realize it is just easier to do the PvP like everyone else, and then...what?

The game dies. All your fears come true.

So either that happens, or it doesn't. Which is it?

If it is going to happen, then Rare should put in PvE so that something at least survives. If it isn't going to, then there really isn't a reason against putting in PvE. Which is it?

@shadeofdead

Thats fair but I fail to see how adding a pve server does anything to fix the real issues of a lack of content. Content is the way to keep the majority of players.

@savagetwinky More effort than the just waiting for a player who just did everything for them basically. Just leave the thread, you provide 0 valid arguments and are only here to troll at this point.

@chitown-bear said in The PvP/PvE Conundrum:

@savagetwinky Why do you not want more people to enjoy the game?

This game was also not advertised as an arena type PVP game and that is the opposite of what the developers said they wanted for it.

Just advertising a product as something doesn't make the advertised statement true. If the criteria is a match and players utilise the game in the exact manner, then it indeed is an arena. Doesn't have to be advertised as such, but it is still an arena. Even our planet is an arena when it comes to criterions.

The only changes they would have to make for a PVE server would be to use the same code that prevents you from damaging your teammates to cover all players.

They would need to add a little code so only your team members could perform actions on your ship.

They would need to add code so that only those who discovered a treasure could handle it.

Those simple changes would make those who dislike the PVP in the game happy. It wouldn't change the game at all for those of us who prefer the PVP servers.

Except those who go to the PvE side will come back when they see how boring it is without player versus player interaction. Either this or they drop sooner than anticipated. PvE never beats PvP when it comes to the surprise element and odds unless you go up against IBM's Watson after it learns how to play this game.

They would have to do nothing else to cater to the PVE players. Some people enjoy cosmetic collectables, and that is progression enough for them.

Yes, they actually would. The same things PvP needs in order to get a proper challenge.

@xgelitedev Once again, many players are fine with the content already there. It's obvious more will be added either way.

@shadeofdead @Desolate-Hollow

First, I think many people like myself would stay on the PVP servers because we enjoy it even if we also do PVE. I think this is an overblown comment.

But even if it does become more hardcore PVP, is that a problem? When I do PVP, I like going up against good competition. I have no desire in this game to attack someone that doesn't have a clue. It isn't satisfying in the least.

As for other ideas, I have stated mine in other threads. And that is to create a "Privateers Writ" that each team could only carry 3 of. You would have to buy them for gold from an outpost.
You activate the writ in order to engage in combat. This enables PVP between the 2 ships involved. The PVP stays active until 1) 45 minutes have passed 2) a ship is sunk 3) all the members of a team are dead.

If the attacking team wins, they can turn in the writ for a small amount of experience and gold. If they attack a ship with no treasure, they still come out behind.
If the attacked team wins, they get the writ along with the experience and the full amount of gold.

This greatly reduces greifing since it would limit repetitive attacks to 3.

It also solves the problem that the game has with the PVP players having nothing at risk. This should make PVP players more selective in their targets. It seems the best way to introduce risk to the PVP player which the game sorely needs.

@xgelitedev said in The PvP/PvE Conundrum:

@shadeofdead

Thats fair but I fail to see how adding a pve server does anything to fix the real issues of a lack of content. Content is the way to keep the majority of players.

Conversation isn't about lack of content. It's about people suggesting a PvE server be an option. Content is useless if you have no goal, if everyone is PvP ganking, as it has been put, then PvE will stop almost entirely, then you have no PvP worth doing.

@shadeofdead Then wouldn't the PVP players either move over to PVE or leave?
If the goal of everyone is loot, then there will always have to be a balance between PVE and PVP.

I think the issue here is people that PVP for the sake of PVP? With no regard for looting or reward? I can agree that those people are a problem, but the only people I've PVP'd with were looking to get loot out of it.

Edit: Let me add that if all the PVE players leave, and then all the PVP players leave, then this game was doomed from the start, and there's no point in discussing any of this, but I refuse to have that kind of defeatist attitude.

@mythicalfable About the only thing I agree with you on is that a PVE server would be boring. I would never want to play on one. I know people who would though.

Why not give those people what they want if it doesn't impact how many of us would play?

@ocmathew1000 said in The PvP/PvE Conundrum:

If the goal of everyone is loot, then there will always have to be a balance between PVE and PVP.

Not everyone's goal is loot. Pure PvP players don't care about loot coz gold doesn't get them a solid advantage in battles; tactics aside.

I think the issue here is people that PVP for the sake of PVP? With no regard for looting or reward? I can agree that those people are a problem, but the only people I've PVP'd with were looking to get loot out of it.

Those people are not the problem. Griefers are who give these innocent players a bad name.

@ocmathew1000 said in The PvP/PvE Conundrum:

@shadeofdead Then wouldn't the PVP players either move over to PVE or leave?
If the goal of everyone is loot, then there will always have to be a balance between PVE and PVP.

I think the issue here is people that PVP for the sake of PVP? With no regard for looting or reward? I can agree that those people are a problem, but the only people I've PVP'd with were looking to get loot out of it.

Edit: Let me add that if all the PVE players leave, and then all the PVP players leave, then this game was doomed from the start, and there's no point in discussing any of this, but I refuse to have that kind of defeatist attitude.

I've had a very different experience from you. Maybe half of the PvP I've been in has been around loot and not just people doing it for PvP sakes. If my ship is at an Outpost, has nothing on it, and they've seen it has nothing on it. I'm standing on my ship waving and not leaving it at all, and you attack me, it is a sign the paranoia is starting to swing wildly to constant shoot on sight. Which eventually devolves.

As for your Edit, that is entirely my point. It isn't going to die. And letting people have a PvE server won't make it die either. If a PvE server would kill it, it was going to die anyway. Adding it would do nothing, but make sure the game doesn't actually die if it goes that direction. See?

@chitown-bear said in The PvP/PvE Conundrum:

Why not give those people what they want if it doesn't impact how many of us would play?

Coz it does. Less meat in this grinder makes grinding more stale. PvE only side will be fed up with the content after the grind is over and leave while some PvP players become new PvE players, then they change sides and after the grind they leave too.

You don't transfer water from a working bucket to one that has a hole in the low enough corner.

@mythicalfable said in The PvP/PvE Conundrum:

@ocmathew1000 said in The PvP/PvE Conundrum:

If the goal of everyone is loot, then there will always have to be a balance between PVE and PVP.

Not everyone's goal is loot. Pure PvP players don't care about loot coz gold doesn't get them a solid advantage in battles; tactics aside.

I think the issue here is people that PVP for the sake of PVP? With no regard for looting or reward? I can agree that those people are a problem, but the only people I've PVP'd with were looking to get loot out of it.

Those people are not the problem. Griefers are who give these innocent players a bad name.

Bingo.

@savagetwinky Ran into quite a few galleons who just patrol the outpost. So yeah... they wait.

@shadeofdead My worry is the long term consequences of that action. They can always work on balancing the PVP and PVE more in the servers, but once you split the servers, there's no going back from that decision. They can add features like flying different flags and such, or making outposts safe. And then they can remove those changes later, even if it annoys people. But 2 different servers, with 2 different levels of progression, can't be brought back together without screwing over the people on the PVP server side (Assuming both servers progress at the same rate loot wise).

I also worry that the heavy influx of gamepass players so early in the game is skewing what the actual gameplay will be like. How many of these current players that kill for the sake of killing, will get bored and leave to play another game? I would be interested to see the statistics on the percentage of fully paid players vs. gamepass players.

@sorenthaz said in The PvP/PvE Conundrum:

@mythicalfable said in The PvP/PvE Conundrum:

@ocmathew1000 said in The PvP/PvE Conundrum:

If the goal of everyone is loot, then there will always have to be a balance between PVE and PVP.

Not everyone's goal is loot. Pure PvP players don't care about loot coz gold doesn't get them a solid advantage in battles; tactics aside.

I think the issue here is people that PVP for the sake of PVP? With no regard for looting or reward? I can agree that those people are a problem, but the only people I've PVP'd with were looking to get loot out of it.

Those people are not the problem. Griefers are who give these innocent players a bad name.

Yes and this is the issue with the game, is that PvP ignores the rest of the world and does not have any risk or consequence involved in it that feels adequately punishing to a PvPer. The only reason PvPers would care about the PvE content is if they care about cosmetics; otherwise people can just treat this game as an arena or whatever like SavageTwinky seems to imagine this game is (even though it's clearly not intended to be treated this way).

Exactly why I suggested that the environment needs to learn how to throw proper punches against all players in an ever-growing bubble-specific manner for those crews that linger long enough in the same place. Lessens griefing and adds a time trial feature to every single bubble.

On top of this, the scuttling mechanism needs to be reworked too. Make it ferry locked and instead of scuttling a maelstrom devours the ship as a whole as and spits it out from another end with the on-board loot. This gives PvP players a time window for looting and the real griefers get the middle finger.

Catering solely to one side isn't going to fix this game. That much is obvious, but I do believe that there needs to be a PvE server for people who JUST like the PvE aspect, and a PvP server for those who enjoy the fighting or PvE'ing with risk involved. Give a reason to play the PvP server to PvE, like an increased gold income for the danger, 0r decrease the gold income of the PvE only server. Also I feel that we need more ships, at least so this game doesn`t feel so empty. Sailed with my buddy on a sloop, never saw a ship in around an hour of play. If we keep PvP on servers, then split them between sloop and gallons so that a crew of 1-2 ppl don't get screwed by a crew of 3-4 ppl easily, and it might make combat more exciting as you're only going to run into ships of your type. I crewed on a galleon and ran into a sloop, not so fun of a target, ran into a gallon, and enjoyed the combat.