Make PVP less overwhelming.

  • I think there are some things that could be implemented, that could make the PVP experience (especially for newer players) feel less overwhelming (without restricting the freedoms of experienced and enthusiastic PVPers). These ideas are not intended to make things (mechanically) easier for anyone, or to close the skill gap between good and bad players, or render the skills that experienced PVPers have developed less effective. This is about making the overall experience of fighting other human pirates feel less alien, less overwhelming, and less of a shock to the system for those that don't engage in it regularly.

    1. Faster, harder PVE enemies.
      The difference in difficulty between PVE enemies, and any vaguely competent human player is unnecessarily large. Going from a ghost or skeleton slowly trudging towards you in a straight line, giving you plenty of time to get your weapon out, miss the first few shots, find an ammo crate and reload, take a sip of your drink and stop to read the instructions, to having a human player sprinting at you at full speed, dodging left and right, swapping between melee and ranged attacks, constantly switching between attacking you and running away, and then killing you before you can finish your eating animation can be quite a shock. It's hardly surprising that players find the experience overwhelming (especially when you combine this with them directly talking / shouting at you as mentioned below). Give players some faster, dodgier PVE enemies that are an actual challenge to hit and kill, and that have a chance to kill you one on one, rather than increasing the challenge by just adding more sword lunge fodder. I'm not saying get rid of the fodder, or make them more difficult. Being outnumbered and killing lots of enemies feels good and I don't want to deprive anyone of their dopamine. But adding a new type of fairly common/ farmable enemy that's at least somewhat of a challenge would be a huge step forward.

    2. Jumping/ bouncing/ flying PVE enemies.
      Similar to the above, the difference between the worst case scenario of a ghost occasionally making a half-hearted attempt at strafing or listing lazily to the left (man, these guys know some maneuvers), to having a human pirate bouncing all over your ship, jumping over you, and generally spending as much time in the air as they do on the ground is unnecessarily large. Currently, PVP adds a (very literal) new dimension to combat that players have to try and learn, in what is definitely a non-learning environment. Give us some PVE enemies that have to be tracked vertically as well as horizontally so new players have a chance to incorporate that into their skillset and PVP combat doesn't feel quite so alien.

    3. Incorporate dying, sinking, and losing your treasure into the tutorial.
      Basically what I said in my previous post here: https://www.seaofthieves.com/community/forums/topic/181690/suggestion-better-onboarding-for-new-players/2
      Get players comfortable with the experience of dying, sinking, and losing all their treasure right from the very beginning. Incorporate these things into the tutorial so players understand that losing your loot and starting again is a fundamental part of the Sea of Thieves experience, and not some horrible thing that's not supposed to happen and the game would be great if they took it out.

    4. Mute other crews by default (and maybe turn on speech to text?), and include a warning when unmuting them.
      Yes, abusive language should not be tolerated, but unfortunately it's very difficult to draw a hard line between abusive language and "unfriendly banter". Regardless of what it is they're actually saying, I can imagine that having someone constantly shouting down the mic at you as they spawn kill you, can be an intimidating and upsetting experience, regardless of whether the language they're using is technically "abusive" or not. It is a normal, human reaction to feel intimidated when people shout aggressively at you, even if all they're saying is "ELEPHANTS ARE NOT PINK" or "I AM A MASSIVE GIRAFFE" over and over again. When they're saying things like "YOU SUCK. YOU'RE SO BAD. WE'RE GOING TO KILL YOU AND STEAL YOUR TREASURE." it's understandable that people might struggle to emotionally detach from the situation. I think including a small warning when you unmute other crews along the lines of "Are you sure? Human pirates can be shouty and aggressive when they attack, which some players may find alarming or triggering." could help people make better informed choices, and remember that simply turning these people off is an option.

    5. Give PVE enemies a more complex agenda and interactions with the environment.
      When a PVE threat emerges, whether a skeleton on an island, a ghost, a kraken, meg, skelly ship etc. etc. you know exactly what its goal is. It is trying to kill you, and you have to kill it first. Nice and simple. You can just ignore everything else and focus on them till they're dead. When human pirates attack or board your ship, they may try to drop your anchor, steer you into an island, steal your resources, burn your ship, run away and hide somewhere, drop your loot over the side etc. etc. PVP requires a much higher awareness of your surroundings and all the things an enemy could do other than just attacking you. I think having some PVE enemies do at least some of these things could help players build situational awareness, and instinctively get into the right headspace of being aware of what's around them and what an enemy might try to do when combat begins.

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  • Faster, harder PVE enemies

    Yes please. But every time they accidentally do? The pve and sometimes pvp only groups always throw a fit and complain. So this will never happen

    Incorporate dying, sinking, and losing your treasure into the tutorial.

    Best tutorial is the hard lesson when it actually happens. You can’t make a tutorial on that, experience it.

    Get players comfortable with the experience of dying, sinking, and losing all their treasure right from the very beginning

    I’ve already seen it. These “I have 2000 hours” players and they still can’t deal with losing or sinking
    Sadly the new batch of kids in this game don’t wanna experience losing or sinking.

    Mute other crews by default

    Sounds fine. But you’re “suppose too” talk with others. Turning this off and never figuring out how to turn it on. It the same issue. (Why can’t I hear anyone)

  • @eligibleeel6171
    Scalable enemy's in their attacks and AI options linked to player hrs/mile stones would be great. Hours done by bucket, 0-300 hrs noob, 300 -1000, hrs average, 1000 -2000 experienced and 2000+ expert.

    The enternal guard is quite a nice addtion. Its next to impossible to cannon. It would have been better themed if the ancient skellies it spawned had slings, spears and blowpipes instead of fire arms and swords. This could still be added in after palyers hit certian milestones.

    • Slings work the same as pistols but a faster rate of fire for less damage and have the AI get them to stand apart.

    • Spears work like swords but with longer reach and if you lunge into them they can block brave heart style for instant death of the player.

    • new version of enternal guard. It throws a sea of the dammend spaear, if it misses the spear does not despawn. Throwing these back are the only thing that can damage the new version.

    • On the seas, once you sink x number of skelly ship, they add bone callers, blunder bombs and chains into the mix. This is based off the average player Xp on the ship or the lowest. Player galleys also get targeted with firebombs.

    • Skelly ships, megs and kraken bias their attention towards the highest level ship and larger crews, but not soley. Same deal for skellies, phantoms etc vs individual players.

    This would not only extend the interest/challange of PvE but also make PvPvE more challanging for those of us with 3000 plus hours.

  • @eligibleeel6171 While I think 1, 2, 3, and 5 are great ideas, I do think that they overlook the most challenging aspects of PvP compared to PvE for newer players.

    I've done a substantial amount of open crew the past few seasons (as an experiment) and I've noticed two key issues that new players struggle with that immediately overwhelm them and/or get them into unrecoverable situations.

    1). Helming. New players are almost entirely terrible at helming. And I don't just mean they are bad at getting into a position where they can deliver some offense, I mean they are consistently good at putting themselves into positions where they are nosing a broadside or giving other ships cannon angle when they have none. It's truly impressive how bad swabbies are at helming (I'm sure I was too in my early days). I'm not sure what could be implemented in an adventure environment to teach players how to helm, but that is one of the absolute most critical parts of the game that I see players consistently struggle most with.

    2). Boarding. New players seem to be completely surprised by boarders in PvP situations. Not only that, they seem to be completely unaware of mermaids in the water and how to react to the sound of players cannoning out. Game sense comes with repetition, but I think this element is one that veteran players know how to leverage in a way so efficient that it does not even allow for a learning experience by swabbies. I do think that portions of this could be replicated by skeleton ships. If skeleton ships "shot out" boarders and maybe have skeletons climb the ladders and engage in combat, that would get players comfortable with what they'll experience in PvP. I wouldn't want to do anything with mermaid simulation, but the rest of it is pretty much already there.

  • @sweetsandman

    The bone caller could spawn a couple of skellies on the ladder with a successful hit and/or a second skelly with a random delay. That second skelly would run for the anhcor if its up.

  • @miserenz Yeah maybe making regular Skelly ships shoot bone callers mixed in with their normal cursed cannonballs would be the hway. It might even be even cool if bone callers (when shot from a Skelly ship) had the same (or similar) cannon audio to a player cannoning out...just to get players used to different audio effects for certain situations.

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