Ship Speeds Need to Finally Change

  • I will preface this by saying I have 2 thousand hours and I really like the game, but there is one pain point I am extremely tired of (other than mermaid spawns xd).
    Chases in this game are terrible and here is why:

    It makes no sense from a gameplay balance perspective that larger crews also get to travel the seas the quickest. Effectively, the smaller you are the less of a choice you have in your battles.

    In most video games at minimum 2 key things are balanced when there are asymmetrical classes or units (in our game ships)

    Speed and Power

    These have to be properly balanced in relation to one another.

    In Sea of Thieves:
    Speed is your ship speed
    Crew size is your health/power

    The problem is that in Sea of Thieves the more power you have the more speed you have. It's not balanced at all. and yes it should be.

    I'm not gonna sugar coat it, it's a huge issue that is going to only get worse as time goes on and the average skill level of the player base rises. Eventually players are going to realize the sloop has no realistic choice when it comes to chasing or running. I've noticed this get worse every year.

    Yes, the sloop is the fastest against the wind, but this is a single direction. The odds of this single direction being beneficial for the duration of a chase (either running or chasing) is extremely low.

    But Sail Management: There's very little skill expression in the game to make up for natural ship speed. The odds of a crew not making the minimum use of the sails in the proper setup is very low. In fact, the only reason I catch other sloops is because they don't know to use dummy sails when the sails aren't being bellowed. They actually think the Sloop gets a cross wind benefit and this mistake costs them over time. (It still takes a long time because the sloop is just that slow) The new item that bellows the sails is quite rare and doesn't really change anything. Using the argument that sail management adds some sort of skill factor that could possibly come close to affecting what I'm saying would be absurd.

    I would also like to say that the Brigantine is especially overtuned when it comes to crosswind. Crosswind takes up most directions at any given time, and the brig can just do literally anything it wants when it comes to choosing a battle. It's a running joke with my friends that a lot of inexperienced crews on brigs can't control their ship because it's too fast. They fly past each other and they don't realize they need to raise sails a bit in order to fight, that's just how fast the brig is.

    Someone being either dishonest , poorly experienced, or contrarian would argue that the ship speeds are fine because they reflect a 'realistic' idea that more sails = more speed. This is irrelevant to gameplay and only serves to create pointless argument. Fun and Fairness are king in video games, not realism. If I wanted realism I'd be on the Atlantic. This isn't a sailing sim, this is a cartoon pirate game.

    My suggestions would be something that evens things out a bit more. In the very least here is a general idea of percentages that reflect my thoughts.

    Sloop: +10 % overall speed + add cross wind benefit (no more dummy sails 24/7)
    Brigantine: -5% overall speed -5% cross wind speed
    Galleon: -5% bellowed speed

    I wouldn't bother going as far as to say the sloop should be the fastest. I doubt I could even convince you that all ships should have the same speed capabilities (they probably should), but something has to change. It's so bad that I solo on a brig when I'm just trying to reach other players to talk to or mess with. Solo slooping with the idea of interacting with other players can often lead to endless chases.

    Again these are just general ideas that reflect pain points. I've played this game a lot and for a long time and I'm fully aware of just how little ship speeds have been touched. Normally I wouldn't appeal to experience to push an argument, but the issue with public game discussion is always that there is a sea of inexperienced players that want to throw in their 2 cents when there are people who genuinely do know better.

    To reiterate: Why can't a sloop choose to fight a larger crew on the sandbox? Why does a ship that has the advantage in HP and DPS get to also decide to run away forever or force a battle. The days of the sloop only being able to sail in 1 direction need to be over.

    It's absolutely baffling that anyone would disagree with what I've said here, but I know some will. Either because they don't use the sloop or they just don't know any better. It's something that is easy to dishonestly muddy the waters on, but in reality it's extremely simple. Small crews shouldn't have a speed disadvantage. In the very least not one that is so oppressive.

    When it comes to actual ship battles that everyone has agreed to I am totally fine with the current game balance. I think the amount of repairs needed on the larger ships makes up for the player numbers. I think the smaller ship just has to avoid full broads and take advantage of turns. I think the smaller ship is still at a disadvantage because raw player numbers really is that big of a deal. Being able to afford a boarder is a win or loss maker. However, I really only care about the fairness of chases. If you think about what I'm saying: the ship with the disadvantage should be the one to decide on the fight taking place to begin with

    I'd be glad to reply to anyone with thoughts on this. I would also really enjoy talking to the devs about it, but I doubt that's ever gonna happen. I think most of the community in sea of thieves is made up of a more casual audience where these things don't come too much into play, but game balance effects everyone at the end of the day. Maybe you've never noticed how much of a problem ship speeds are, but I and many others sure have. Thanks for reading.

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  • @gaisericttv
    They announced a few weeks ago (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko0hcXzyvS8) that they'll be working on this.

  • @lem0n-curry said in Ship Speeds Need to Finally Change:

    @gaisericttv
    They announced a few weeks ago (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko0hcXzyvS8) that they'll be working on this.

    Thanks for the link. I heard a rumor about it, but no one ever showed me the post. I hope it will be enough.

  • I'm not optimistic yet about outcome as brig speed has been op for years while many just parroted the "it's fine" "it's right" "just do this" which hasn't been fully accurate in years and it's also worsened multiple times.

    I am super glad it finally got acknowledged as an issue.

    Even if it doesn't end up changed enough I still think it being acknowledged is a big win for people (experienced sloopers specifically) that have been challenging the "it's fine" messaging for a long time.

    Rare deserves credit for being willing to address it and acknowledging it's necessary. I think it's long been necessary but it's a big deal that they are going to work on it now.

  • @gaisericttv said in Ship Speeds Need to Finally Change:

    Yes, the sloop is the fastest against the wind, but this is a single direction. The odds of this single direction being beneficial for the duration of a chase (either running or chasing) is extremely low.

    This is not true. Read wiki carefully here (link is here: https://seaofthieves.fandom.com/wiki/Wind) on the bottom and I quote "A common misconception is that the Sloop is faster than the Brigantine upwind. This is in fact not true, as upwind the Brigantine is the fastest, followed by the Sloop[1] and then the Galleon." This is true.

    So how long has it been like this? Probably two years, with seemingly no explanation. If I am on a brig I witness 99% of sloops run from me and head upwind misguided by the idea they think they are faster going into the wind but I always square and match my sails to their's and I eventually catch them in a straight line and they don't understand. Sloop is always 100% caught by a brig that has the knowledge. No escape.

    Streamers complained about this for so long and we never understood why the change happened in the first place nor why it has gone on for so long. Its gross. The brig is gross I refuse to play it, too overpowered, too easy, no challenge it steamrolls everything in adventure mode. You can use it while solo for the speed but you will be unable to effectively fight with it, so solo sloop is still preferred for a solo person.

  • @karkona said in Ship Speeds Need to Finally Change:

    Streamers complained about this for so long and we never understood why the change happened in the first place nor why it has gone on for so long. Its gross.

    The waves got more wild and the brig got faster.

    It wasn't overnight or ever publicly acknowledged.

    I never know what is intentional or what just happened but lately I think it was just something that happened.

    When they started acknowledging stuff as bugs rather than decisions they made I think it makes it more likely that a lot of stuff just happened in this game.

    To be fair to them a lot of the complaining in sot is just venting and isn't necessarily based in accuracy. Some of the venting is way off course for accuracy. Being right sometimes doesn't justify all the venting that isn't fair or accurate about things. It's tough for them to figure out what's right when a lot of it is exaggerated in the feedback areas.

  • I will preface this by saying I have 2 thousand hours and I really like the game,

    and you somehow missed the Ship speed announcements?

  • @savvystraw37257 said in Ship Speeds Need to Finally Change:

    @karkona

    I’ve never had a brig catch me when sailing directly against the wind in 6k hours at least not by sailing directly behind me. I have had them cut me off before.

    Now if I deviate at all from sailing directly against the wind then yes they can catch up.

    All I do is play sloop.

    Entirely depends on the situation.

    A lot of people run from new player brigs and brigs that get distracted easily and move on. Or they started running when they see a brig way off in the distance and then they count that as outrunning.

    The aggressive "chase you forever" brigs are the ones that catch. That's why a lot of players choose brigs, it's the chase boat and it's effective. That's why people solo brigs, it's the fast boat and it's effective.

    Anyone could watch a experienced brig crew on any stream (I don't need to cherry pick a crew) chase down a sloop. It's very easy and it's very effective these days.

    If the sloop and the brig are anywhere near each other at the beginning of the run/chase it's not going to last long unless the brig plays very poorly in that situation.

  • @savvystraw37257 said in Ship Speeds Need to Finally Change:

    @karkona

    I’ve never had a brig catch me when sailing directly against the wind in 6k hours at least not by sailing directly behind me. I have had them cut me off before.

    Now if I deviate at all from sailing directly against the wind then yes they can catch up.

    All I do is play sloop.

    I'll put it this way, if I played and enjoyed a brig everyday I would 100% support your message and hope that most of the thread got dismissed as a conspiracy theory. But as mentioned earlier, Rare is aware of the issue. So we hang tight and see how they approach it.

  • @savvystraw37257 said in Ship Speeds Need to Finally Change:

    What about this as a thought experiment?

    First establish a base speed (x) for all ships to share then multiply that by the following based on the wind direction and the ship type.

    Let’s say that for this example x = the current speed of a sloop when sailing directly against the wind with its sails centered.

    The following values are for properly angled sails according to the wind direction.

    Tailwind (billow)
    Galleon 2.3x
    Brigantine 2.2x
    Sloop 2.1x

    Crosswind (billow)
    Galleon 2.7x
    Brigantine 2.8x
    Sloop 2.6x

    Headwind
    Galleon 1.1x
    Brigantine 1.2x
    Sloop 1.3x

    Speed penalty per sail angled incorrectly
    Galleon fore - 15%
    Galleon main - 20%
    Galleon aft - 15%
    Brigantine fore - 20%
    Brigantine main - 30%
    Sloop main - 50%

    Now suddenly sail angle is critical and any crew that doesn’t stay on top of their sail angles will be able to be caught up to easily regardless of ship type.

    This also indirectly buffs the sloop as it will be the easiest to maintain sail angle while changing directions because it only has one sail. I am sure well coordinated larger crews will be able to maintain their sail angles without any problem though.

    You know how hard it can be to get your crew to stay on top of the sail angles well now they will want to because the speed difference is significant.

    I like this a lot

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