What Is The Current Stance on Spawn Camping With Intent To Force A Scuttle?

@wolfmanbush So you're suggesting to record their behavior and submit it as a report?

To echo the above, I’ll spawn camp you IF you have holes or fire, preferably holes though. I think spawn camping just to spawn camp is cringe

Nobody forces you to scuttle. Keep fighting and get lucky.

It’s a battle tactic. If you can not get out of a play, scuttle and walk away.

I would suggest to change weapon loadout if you see one is not working or just scuttle? Personally, never had this for over a year now I guess, and before maybe happend only once or twice. I/We usually fight until its done.

Absolutely abhor it! Just sail out of bounds while spawn camping. No need to RODL spam because the victim can’t double gun as good or fast as you. It’s toxic imo

If this is in the hourglass battles, it's clear their break Pirate code there is zero need to spawn camp you.

Reason not a report:

1. There actively trying to sink you meaning sail you out of bounds. (During a Battle)

2. They're using your ship to attack or get to a place by use of your ship. (Battle strategy or advancement)

3. Removing your supplies with the intentions to keep your afloat to letting continue on your adventure.

4. Attempting to tuck on your ship to steal or advance location.

Reason to report:

1. They constantly kill you without doing any of the above stated.

Many will say just scuttle yes this is option if you're in the middle of an Adventure or doing battles on a streak. I, understand why not to scuttle if it's clear that the players spawn camping intentions are Soley to camp you until you quite or scuttle then staying to gather evidence is needed.

Record and report. Camping just to camp is frowned upon.

There is no current stance, its flat out bannable to force people to scuttle or leave intentionally. It has been for quite some time.

Depending how severe it is, it could be red beard, but typically from what i have seen, its just a yellow beard. Some people do claim you cant get in trouble for it, but its clear from what rare and the mod team have said and showed in the past.

@ghostpaw In normal circumstances, I'd agree with you. But the issue in this case is allegiance XP.

Rare added XP to sailing out of bounds, as there were complaints of players getting camped out of bounds, and not gaining XP for their effort. However, scuttling still doesn't reward any XP. I'd guess OP would have scuttled sooner if it rewarded something.

Before the last patch, on a few threads that brought up the issue, I commented that XP should be rewarded if the player has been killed at least once. This way, whether they are getting camped out of bounds or camped until they scuttle, they get some credit for at least trying. You could add other qualifying conditions (e.g. killing the opponent at least once, landing at least one cannonball) that would reward loss XP if the player accidentally sails out, or calls it quits and scuttles.

The only ones who wouldn't be rewarded are the folks who sail out on purpose, in an attempt to farm losing XP.

Now, if Rare ever did add XP for scuttling, then there'd be no excuse to complain about being camped. Then, it'd be on the player for dragging it out, when they could have taken their loss-XP and moved on to the next match.

@spoops9984 oh if there is a hole fo sho camp it. I have also done it while sailing them outta bounds if I just can’t manage to sink them OR it’s a ship that’s constantly running

There's no excuse for "forcing" someone to scuttle. If you can spawn camp your opponent for 4-ish respawns, you can sink them with fire, or put holes in them by running them into stuff, or in the case of hourglass battles, sail them out of bounds.

I genuinely don't understand why someone would want to do that (outside of maybe teaching a truly toxic player a lesson).

I don't know if Rare has ever publicly stated that this type of behavior is punishable, but I've certainly heard (one-sided) stories of players being punished for it.

@sweetsandman said:

I genuinely don't understand why someone would want to do that (outside of maybe teaching a truly toxic player a lesson).

Aim training?

No better way to practice PvP on a ship than to PvP on a ship

Idk why it'd be okay in a situations where we get to play judge, jury and executioner on a "truly" toxic player... but it's not okay to just, y'know, practice.

This is opt-in PvP, not some solo tall taler getting quadboarded. Camping here should be treated as it was treated in Arena, imo. That said, players who scuttle after getting camped in hourglass matches should get losing XP, rather than nothing.

@theblackbellamy If it's a mutual TDM scrimmage, then no worries. I'd venture a guess that that's a wildly rare occurrence even within hourglass battles.

Otherwise, you can get your target practice during the 4+ times they respawn as you actually try to sink them.

Please don't act like it's innocent and that you'd be the victim if there was a punishment handed down.

I get it...people should know how to scuttle and those that do should use it more often. But let's not pretend like their potential ignorance should justify you using them as target practice because you need an outlet.

@sweetsandman said:

... you can get your target practice during the 4+ times they respawn as you actually try to sink them... Please don't act like it's innocent and that you'd be the victim if there was a punishment handed down... people should know how to scuttle and those that do should use it more often. But let's not pretend like their potential ignorance should justify you using them as target practice because you need an outlet.

If I'm trying to work on my aim, why would I want to sink them? Seems counterproductive.

Back when Arena was around, I used to solo queue and try to lock down a ship 1v4. I failed a lot. But the intent was to try to get better at PvP. Towards the end of Arena, I'd solo queue and stay anch'ed, waiting for players to camp/farm me lol. I'd try to break the camp, and if I failed, I scuttled. It was all for fun and practice.

I'm not justifying all camping. It's not always innocent. But if someone is doing it truly with the intent to practice, not to be toxic, in opt-in PvP, why wouldn't that be justified? Imo that shouldn't warrant a punishment. Rare disagrees, of course. We can agree to do so too.

Even if someone opted in, but was still unaware of scuttling, the game notifies them on the ferry. In this case, OP knew scuttling was an option but chose not to, for apparently well over an hour. I sympathize with them, but only because scuttling would mean 0 XP.

I do hope Rare re-works the system so that it rewards players who tried, but ended up scuttling or out-of-bounds for one reason or another.

@impsassy personally, I think it's primarily the players who get dogged on the most who finally have gained opportunity to win and abuse it because it makes them feel better than they are. That being said, not alot you can do against it, and Rare doesn't seem intent on doing anything about it as long as the Emporium and Season pass keep raking in money, genuinely feels more like they focus on adding a bunch of bull cosmetics to keep the money coming instead of genuinely working on quality of life improvements to the game. Anything else is lip service to keep their player base from leaving back to Apex or CoD until something actually changes. (And not just getting rid of Arena because that was too much work, and I expect the same from this PvP too)

@impsassy you can report for that, forcing a scuttle isn't an excuse to spawn camp

@theblackbellamy said in [What Is The Current Stance on Spawn Camping With Intent To Force A Scuttle?]

If I'm trying to work on my aim, why would I want to sink them? Seems counterproductive.

If you're trying to work on your aim, why would you spawn camp them? I mean, standing around blowing someone's head off when they re-spawn isn't much more valuable for aim training than standing around shooting a tree. If you wanted to actually practice you'd give them the chance to actually move around and fire back. And if you're desperately trying to work on your aim because its so clearly lacking when you've gotten in the position to spawn camp someone, at which point within an hour of sitting on an anchored ship shooting at an intermittent back of someone's head do you think you'd conclude that might be enough practice at this point? For that matter, the OP posted while sitting on the ferry waiting for the match to be over, how long sat on an empty ship waiting to blunder a melon that never arrives before you might conclude that what you're doing could possibly be a little off?

I'm sorry, I've heard a lot of long shot excuses for pretty cruddy behavior on these forums, but "maybe they were practicing aiming" as an excuse for spawn camping for an hour has to be some of the weakest sauce I've ever seen.

@gtothefo Please see my first comment for my thoughts on this particular situation.

My exchange with Sandman after that was regarding his comment that camping, without aiming to sink, is unacceptable except for when he's camping people he deems toxic.

Do I know that the person OP met was acting purely with the intent to practice? No, and I never suggested that. Idk what actually happened, and if he was shooting at OP for over an hour, I'm surprised he didn't move on out of boredom.

I was just pushing back against this idea that it's somehow unacceptable, regardless of intent, except when we get to teach others a lesson.

If they don’t try to sink your boat or sail it out of bound, it is totally bannable as long as you have the video to back it up.

@theblackbellamy said in What Is The Current Stance on Spawn Camping With Intent To Force A Scuttle?:

If I'm trying to work on my aim, why would I want to sink them? Seems counterproductive.

I'm not justifying all camping. It's not always innocent. But if someone is doing it truly with the intent to practice, not to be toxic, in opt-in PvP, why wouldn't that be justified? Imo that shouldn't warrant a punishment. Rare disagrees, of course. We can agree to do so too.

Even if someone opted in, but was still unaware of scuttling, the game notifies them on the ferry. In this case, OP knew scuttling was an option but chose not to, for apparently well over an hour.

Think about it...you're giving someone who is probably not good at PvP the options to either A). continue to be your punching bag...or B). forfeit their progression...all because you're desperate for target practice? That doesn't seem like kind of a 'D' move to you?

I sympathize with them, but only because scuttling would mean 0 XP.

I do hope Rare re-works the system so that it rewards players who tried, but ended up scuttling or out-of-bounds for one reason or another.

Out of bounds they fixed. It made sense to add that since it was actually faster to sail someone out of bounds than it was to fire strat sink them.

If they add scuttling to the list, it sets the precedent that spawn camping to force a scuttle is OK even outside of hourglass battles...and where does it stop? Does that mean bucketing/repairing is OK as long as it's because you claim you wanted target practice?

I highly doubt that is a precedent they'd even consider setting.

_
We get it, you're super good at TDM...but keeping a ship afloat to use a swabbie as target practice is a bit egotistical, no?

Keep doing it. Doesn't bother me. We've all heard the rumors on Rare's stance on the topic should someone get reported for doing it.

@sweetsandman said:

Think about it...you're giving someone who is probably not good at PvP the options to either A). continue to be your punching bag...or B). forfeit their progression...all because you're desperate for target practice? That doesn't seem like kind of a 'D' move to you?.. If they add scuttling to the list, it sets the precedent that spawn camping to force a scuttle is OK even outside of hourglass battles...and where does it stop? Does that mean bucketing/repairing is OK as long as it's because you claim you wanted target practice?

I think I made it pretty clear that my stance on camping in opt-in PvP mirrors what it was in Arena. I'm not talking "even outside of hourglass," and I was hoping I made that clear as well.

The reason I want to add loss-XP to scuttling (after ar least one death) is so that the person who is being camped or sailed out gets something for their time and effort.

I highly doubt that is a precedent they'd even consider setting.

Same, but I didn't say that it was something they'd consider lol. I gave my 2 cents and acknowledged Rare disagrees with it.

We get it, you're super good at TDM...but keeping a ship afloat to use a swabbie as target practice is a bit egotistical, no?... Keep doing it. Doesn't bother me. We've all heard the rumors on Rare's stance on the topic should someone get reported for doing it.

Bothers you enough to comment on it.

Regardless, I haven't camped (unless to sink) in a long, long while. Because I know better. And I like all my stuff. Never had a yellow. Don't want one. No thanks.

Also man, I didn't say I was "super good at TDM" (or camping for that matter), and I only brought up what I did in Arena to highlight that my intent was to get better. Lock down a ship; break out of a camp. Never meant it personally; never took it personally.

I don't camp swabbies, but that doesn't mean I don't excuse swabbies for camping swabbies, in an attempt to get better.

Does this apply to OP's situation? I doubt it. If he was locked down for an hour, it probably wasn't a swabbie on his ship.

I was just pushing back against the idea that it's never acceptable, even if purely for practice, even if it's swabbie on swabbie violence... except when we camp toxic people.

@theblackbellamy said in What Is The Current Stance on Spawn Camping With Intent To Force A Scuttle?:

[ ... ] I was just pushing back against the idea that it's never acceptable, even if purely for practice, even if it's swabbie on swabbie violence... except when we camp toxic people.

I would suggest dropping the last advice - even if it would feel they'd deserve it; it could get people in problems if they are reported by the toxic crew for being 'toxic doing spawn camping' the toxic crew. Even worse when the toxic crew has evidence and the crew that is punishing the toxic crew hasn't.

They should get punished - but by Rare, Xbox, Steam or MS and who-ever rules they're breaking.

@theblackbellamy said in What Is The Current Stance on Spawn Camping With Intent To Force A Scuttle?:

I think I made it pretty clear that my stance on camping in opt-in PvP mirrors what it was in Arena. I'm not talking "even outside of hourglass," and I was hoping I made that clear as well.

Even Hourglass opt-in PvP is different than Arena.

1). Arena had a time limit.
2). Arena had a points system that rewarded you for killing other players.

In hourglass, it serves no purpose outside of forcing the other player to forfeit their progression. If you can spawn camp someone endlessly, you can sail them out of bounds or fire strat them. Don't act like those aren't infinitely better options for winning an hg battle than forcing someone to scuttle.

The reason I want to add loss-XP to scuttling (after ar least one death) is so that the person who is being camped or sailed out gets something for their time and effort.

Again, getting sailed out was already fixed. They added progression for that form of losing.

Adding scuttling as a form of progression sets a bad precedent that we both know they wouldn't set.

I was just pushing back against the idea that it's never acceptable, even if purely for practice, even if it's swabbie on swabbie violence...

Again, for those that do it, go for it. We know what the potential repercussions are.

Mutual TDMing where "spawn camping" is a biproduct. Totally fine. Neither party is (probably) going to report the other.

except when we camp toxic people.

I wouldn't dwell on that. I only mention it because I've seen [some partners] do it. It's a wildly rare occurrence and it would be infinitely better to just record/report.

@burnbacon a dit dans What Is The Current Stance on Spawn Camping With Intent To Force A Scuttle? :

Nobody forces you to scuttle. Keep fighting and get lucky.

It’s a battle tactic. If you can not get out of a play, scuttle and walk away.

@Ghostpaw dit dans What Is The Current Stance on Spawn Camping With Intent To Force A Scuttle? :

But you can always scuttle and move on at any point. Why drag it out?

Because the developers of this game decided to reward losers some allegiance, and scuttling doesn't give you any ?

As someone said better than I could do :
@Spoops9984 dit dans What Is The Current Stance on Spawn Camping With Intent To Force A Scuttle? :

If someone is such a PVP purist that they see themself as some arbiter of justice preventing newbies and loss farmers from ruining the mode, they need to seek counseling to find out where that deep-seated hatred is coming from.